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Tavares could take over the OHL scoring lead tonight.

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Old
01-27-2007, 03:49 PM
  #51
chaosrevolver
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Originally Posted by Quiksilver View Post
Neither Donati will be in the NHL. They will be career ECHL, AHL players.
and where does this explanation come from

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01-27-2007, 09:50 PM
  #52
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It comes from the fact that neither is good enough to play at an NHL level.

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01-27-2007, 10:05 PM
  #53
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He's really following the bloodlines.
John Tavares, the Uncle, is the Wayne Gretzky of La Crosse.

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01-28-2007, 12:42 AM
  #54
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I'm actually worried that this kid is going to regress because he has to be in this league for 5 years. He's already one of the best players in the CHL.
Man I hate that stupid 'exception rule'.

Alot of the '85's had to go back to junior for their 19 yr old seasons, when if not for the lockout, they probably would have played in the NHL. Didn't seem to hurt those guys too much, ie: Phaneuf, Carter, Perry, Getzlaf, Seabrooke, Richards and some others like Staal, Bergeron and Horton had to go down a level and play in the AHL for a season. They seem to be doing fine as well.

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01-28-2007, 01:04 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by HabLover View Post
Alot of the '85's had to go back to junior for their 19 yr old seasons, when if not for the lockout, they probably would have played in the NHL. Didn't seem to hurt those guys too much, ie: Phaneuf, Carter, Perry, Getzlaf, Seabrooke, Richards and some others like Staal, Bergeron and Horton had to go down a level and play in the AHL for a season. They seem to be doing fine as well.

None of those guys ever dominated junior like Tavares is doing now. He's on pace to score more goals in the OHL than any player in over 15 years. As a 16 year old.

He's far more liable to have outgrown his competition and get bored by 18 than any of those you mentioned.

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01-28-2007, 08:47 PM
  #56
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None of those guys ever dominated junior like Tavares is doing now. He's on pace to score more goals in the OHL than any player in over 15 years. As a 16 year old.

He's far more liable to have outgrown his competition and get bored by 18 than any of those you mentioned.
Yes, you are correct, none of those guys dominated like Tavares, but nonetheless, they were stuck in junior an extra year and they still turned out fine, perhaps it was even good for them? Perhaps Tavares shouldn't have played in the OHL at 15 and we wouldn't be having this discussion? Look at Crosby, it's obvious he could have played in the Q at 15, but he didn't, they wouldn't let him. So, he played 3 yrs(one at Shattuck, two at Rimouski) where he absolutely dominated. Was that a waste of his time? So Tavares spends one more year in junior, shouldn't be a problem in my mind.

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01-28-2007, 09:07 PM
  #57
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It comes from the fact that neither is good enough to play at an NHL level.
maybe maybe not

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01-28-2007, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by chaosrevolver View Post
maybe maybe not
They are 20 years old and haven't been drafted or signed by an NHL team. Any decent 20 year old can put up point totals in junior playing against players 2-3 years younger than them. They'll be lucky to make the AHL.

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01-29-2007, 12:14 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Yes, you are correct, none of those guys dominated like Tavares, but nonetheless, they were stuck in junior an extra year and they still turned out fine, perhaps it was even good for them? Perhaps Tavares shouldn't have played in the OHL at 15 and we wouldn't be having this discussion? Look at Crosby, it's obvious he could have played in the Q at 15, but he didn't, they wouldn't let him. So, he played 3 yrs(one at Shattuck, two at Rimouski) where he absolutely dominated. Was that a waste of his time? So Tavares spends one more year in junior, shouldn't be a problem in my mind.
You might well be right, but for all we know Crosby might have been better off today had he played in the QMJHL at 15 instead of highschool. We'll never know.

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01-29-2007, 08:47 AM
  #60
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[QUOTE=Tb0ne;7825156]You might well be right, but for all we know Crosby might have been better off today had he played in the QMJHL at 15 instead of highschool. We'll never know.[/QUOTE

Is Tavares getting close to the impact Crosby made as a 16 year old?

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01-29-2007, 09:07 AM
  #61
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Is Tavares getting close to the impact Crosby made as a 16 year old?
Well, Tavares is on a pace to score 76 goals and 67 assists (143 points), I think, while Crosby had 54+81=135 at the same age (in only 59 games, though, while Tavares will most likely get up to 67 games, so Sid would still own him at PPG).

And Tavares has one season behind him already, but still, if he keeps the pace, I consider it amazing (and which league has higher scoring, I don't know, but that could be a factor).

The thing is (I think), that since Tavares has a late birthday he still has two seasons after this one before he can even be drafted which makes this more of an issue than it was with Crosby.

IF Tavares manages to finish the season with his goals per game ration clearly over 1, at this age, I really don't think it's a good idea to keep him in the juniors two more seasons. Plus I want to see him in Europe

BTW, does anyone know the OHL/CHL records for most goals/points?

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01-29-2007, 09:45 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by EroSennin View Post
Well, Tavares is on a pace to score 76 goals and 67 assists (143 points), I think, while Crosby had 54+81=135 at the same age (in only 59 games, though, while Tavares will most likely get up to 67 games, so Sid would still own him at PPG).

And Tavares has one season behind him already, but still, if he keeps the pace, I consider it amazing (and which league has higher scoring, I don't know, but that could be a factor).

The thing is (I think), that since Tavares has a late birthday he still has two seasons after this one before he can even be drafted which makes this more of an issue than it was with Crosby.

IF Tavares manages to finish the season with his goals per game ration clearly over 1, at this age, I really don't think it's a good idea to keep him in the juniors two more seasons. Plus I want to see him in Europe

BTW, does anyone know the OHL/CHL records for most goals/points?
Tavares isn't draft eligible 'til 2009, so yeah, 2 more years.

The CHL single-season record for goals/points is held by one Mario Lemieux. In '83-'84, he scored 133 goals and 282 points through 70 games in the Q. I'm pretty sure that record is safe.

Not sure about the OHL records though.

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01-29-2007, 09:55 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by doctordark View Post
Tavares isn't draft eligible 'til 2009, so yeah, 2 more years.

The CHL single-season record for goals/points is held by one Mario Lemieux. In '83-'84, he scored 133 goals and 282 points through 70 games in the Q. I'm pretty sure that record is safe.

Not sure about the OHL records though.
I'm not completely positive, but I'm pretty sure the points record is held by Gretzky with 182 in 77-78. Where as the goals record is held by Lindros with 71 in 90-91.

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01-29-2007, 10:39 AM
  #64
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I'm not completely positive, but I'm pretty sure the points record is held by Gretzky with 182 in 77-78. Where as the goals record is held by Lindros with 71 in 90-91.
Wow. If that's true, Tavares is on pace to break the OHL goal-scoring record at 16. Not too difficult to see where he may need some stiffer competition for his draft year.

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01-29-2007, 10:56 AM
  #65
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They are 20 years old and haven't been drafted or signed by an NHL team. Any decent 20 year old can put up point totals in junior playing against players 2-3 years younger than them. They'll be lucky to make the AHL.
know one can tell for sure

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01-29-2007, 10:57 AM
  #66
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I'm not completely positive, but I'm pretty sure the points record is held by Gretzky with 182 in 77-78. Where as the goals record is held by Lindros with 71 in 90-91.
Bobby Smith put up 192 points in '77-78 and Ciccarelli scored 72 goals that year too, and Peter Lee scored 81 goals in 1975-76, but all this was in the OHA, so technically not OHL. Ernie Godden scored 87 goals in '80-81 season (followed by guys with 81 and 78 goals respectively), which looks to be the OHL record (and OHA, if you consider it the same league). Ray Sheppard potted 81 (in only 63 games) in '85-86, which isn't bad either, especially since he won the goal scoring race by 19 goals.

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01-29-2007, 11:13 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by chaosrevolver View Post
know one can tell for sure
Get off your Donati love train. They are both good OA's, but that's about it at this point. They are both small players and don't have that elite speed to succeed at the next level. The Donati's remind me of a less talented Darren Haydar.

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01-29-2007, 04:01 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Quiksilver View Post
Get off your Donati love train. They are both good OA's, but that's about it at this point. They are both small players and don't have that elite speed to succeed at the next level. The Donati's remind me of a less talented Darren Haydar.
I was talking about how they will be lucky to make it to the AHL, and im sorry but i thought they were drafted as they went to Wings camp. I agree noiw that they wont make it, but I just thought they deserved some respect

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01-29-2007, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Genghis Keon View Post
Bobby Smith put up 192 points in '77-78 and Ciccarelli scored 72 goals that year too, and Peter Lee scored 81 goals in 1975-76, but all this was in the OHA, so technically not OHL. Ernie Godden scored 87 goals in '80-81 season (followed by guys with 81 and 78 goals respectively), which looks to be the OHL record (and OHA, if you consider it the same league). Ray Sheppard potted 81 (in only 63 games) in '85-86, which isn't bad either, especially since he won the goal scoring race by 19 goals.
OHL....OHA...same league.

the top ten in 80-81

1 John Goodwin Sault Ste Marie 56 110 166
2 Ernie Godden Windsor 87 66 153
3 Bernie Nicholls Kingston 63 89 152
4 Tony Tanti Oshawa 81 69 150
5 Steve Ludzik Niagara 50 92 142
6 Scott Howson Kingston 57 83 140
7 Steve Larmer Niagara 55 78 133
8 Randy Cunneyworth Ottawa 54 74 128
9 Steve Gatzos Sault Ste Marie 78 50 128
10 Doug Shedden Sault Ste Marie 51 72 123

A good link on the standings and scorers in the 80's for those of you old enough to remember..

http://www.prohockeyfr.com/Junior/cl...ntsOHL8190.htm

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01-29-2007, 11:27 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by EroSennin View Post
Well, Tavares is on a pace to score 76 goals and 67 assists (143 points), I think, while Crosby had 54+81=135 at the same age (in only 59 games, though, while Tavares will most likely get up to 67 games, so Sid would still own him at PPG).

And Tavares has one season behind him already, but still, if he keeps the pace, I consider it amazing (and which league has higher scoring, I don't know, but that could be a factor).

The thing is (I think), that since Tavares has a late birthday he still has two seasons after this one before he can even be drafted which makes this more of an issue than it was with Crosby.

IF Tavares manages to finish the season with his goals per game ration clearly over 1, at this age, I really don't think it's a good idea to keep him in the juniors two more seasons. Plus I want to see him in Europe

BTW, does anyone know the OHL/CHL records for most goals/points?
I thought the OHL only played 68 games..........and didn't Tavares miss some games already this year?

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01-30-2007, 04:46 PM
  #71
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I thought the OHL only played 68 games..........and didn't Tavares miss some games already this year?
They do only play 68...and Tavares has missed 1 game so far this season.

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01-30-2007, 08:59 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by turnbuckle View Post
OHL....OHA...same league.

the top ten in 80-81

1 John Goodwin Sault Ste Marie 56 110 166
2 Ernie Godden Windsor 87 66 153
3 Bernie Nicholls Kingston 63 89 152
4 Tony Tanti Oshawa 81 69 150
5 Steve Ludzik Niagara 50 92 142
6 Scott Howson Kingston 57 83 140
7 Steve Larmer Niagara 55 78 133
8 Randy Cunneyworth Ottawa 54 74 128
9 Steve Gatzos Sault Ste Marie 78 50 128
10 Doug Shedden Sault Ste Marie 51 72 123

A good link on the standings and scorers in the 80's for those of you old enough to remember..

http://www.prohockeyfr.com/Junior/cl...ntsOHL8190.htm
Somewhat scary that none of those names are really standout (aside from Larmer) as doing anything good in the NHL, I hope for better with Tavares.

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01-30-2007, 09:03 PM
  #73
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Somewhat scary that none of those names are really standout (aside from Larmer) as doing anything good in the NHL, I hope for better with Tavares.
Cunneyworth, Nicholls and Tanti all had solid careers and Ludzik wasn't that bad either.

5/10 making the NHL and actually doing something is a pretty good ratio.

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01-30-2007, 09:26 PM
  #74
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The guy should look at playing in europe in the future -- he'll get nothing more out of the CHL.
He's got a year and a half left in the OHL and then he'll be playing for the team that takes him first overall in the NHL Entry Draft.

Forget Europe...

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01-30-2007, 09:32 PM
  #75
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He's got a year and a half left in the OHL and then he'll be playing for the team that takes him first overall in the NHL Entry Draft.

Forget Europe...
Only problem with that is he's not eligible until 2009, he has 2 and a half years left in the OHL before he is drafted.

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