HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Questioning Mangagement

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-04-2003, 09:49 AM
  #1
Axis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 129
vCash: 500
Questioning Mangagement

1.) 2003 draft - passing up Zach Parise. Now the number 1 prospect in the Devils system.

2.) 2002 draft - not drafting Jiri Hudler. A young centre who made this years Red Wings team.

3.) signing Tommy Salo to a 3.9 million dollar contract after an awful 2003 playoffs and shaky second half in 2002 (after returning from the 2002 Olympics).

4.) keeping your best player, Ryan Smyth, at 3rd line centre instead of keeping him in his position of 1st line LW (one of the best in the league).

5.) Not signing the franchise player, Mike Comrie, in favour of Tommy Salo (who was the worst of the underachievers in last year's playoffs).

6.) Playing Mike York (with one arm) ahead of a healthy Jason Chimera.

7.) Taking too long to trade Tom Poti. Then, when he returned, playing him with a young Eric Brewer rather than a veteran. Then trading him along with a big, veteran centre in Rem Murray for a small forward. Note: we missed the playoffs that year. Although Mike Comrie carried the team on his back that season (2001/2002 - 60 points) while Ryan Smyth was injured.

8.) Playing Igor Ulanov with one bad eye in the 2000-2001 playoffs rather than playing a healthy Sean Brown.

9.) Trading Sean Brown for Bobby Allen.

10.) Trading Mike Grier for 2 draft picks.

11.) Drafting Alexei Mikhinov (no.17) ahead of Brian Sutherby in 2000's entry draft. Accoring to the Edmonton Journal, at last years trade deadline Lowe tried to trade Niinimaa for Sutherby.

12.) Drafting Jani Rita (no.13) ahead of Barret Jackman (no.17) in 1999's draft.

13.) Not getting Barrett Jackman in the Doug Weight trade from St.Louis.

14.) Having too much depth at forward and very little on defense.

15.) Making it hard to like the Oilers: Comrie, Carter, Niinimaa, etc. ....


In management I'm holding Kevin Lowe, Kevin Prendergast, Scott Howson and even Craig MacTavish responsible. I would rather the Oilers fire MacTavish than trade Mike Comrie. Any Oiler fans who miss Comrie, Carter or Niinimaa, how do you feel ?

Axis is offline  
Old
12-04-2003, 09:56 AM
  #2
Slats432
Registered User
 
Slats432's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,594
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axis
Any Oiler fans who miss Comrie, Carter or Niinimaa, how do you feel ?
Does that mean you don't want to hear from people that have opposing views? (Not a shot, just an honest question.)

Slats432 is offline  
Old
12-04-2003, 09:57 AM
  #3
Mowzie
Asst. Dishwasher
 
Mowzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Lebanon, Alberta
Country: Lebanon
Posts: 8,389
vCash: 500
I agree 1,000,000% with you.
Here one more question...

-Picking sure shot Steve Kelly instead of fan favourite and hometown boy Shane Doan while thousands of Edmontonions chant "Doan""Doan""Doan""Doan""Doan""Doan""Doan""Doan""D oan""Doan".

Mowzie is offline  
Old
12-04-2003, 10:00 AM
  #4
Axis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 129
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
Does that mean you don't want to hear from people that have opposing views? (Not a shot, just an honest question.)

Just the opposite - I definitely want any views. This is just how I honestly feel right now.

Axis is offline  
Old
12-04-2003, 10:01 AM
  #5
HotToddy
Registered User
 
HotToddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,608
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axis
1.) 2003 draft - passing up Zach Parise. Now the number 1 prospect in the Devils system.

2.) 2002 draft - not drafting Jiri Hudler. A young centre who made this years Red Wings team.

3.) signing Tommy Salo to a 3.9 million dollar contract after an awful 2003 playoffs and shaky second half in 2002 (after returning from the 2002 Olympics).

4.) keeping your best player, Ryan Smyth, at 3rd line centre instead of keeping him in his position of 1st line LW (one of the best in the league).

5.) Not signing the franchise player, Mike Comrie, in favour of Tommy Salo (who was the worst of the underachievers in last year's playoffs).

6.) Playing Mike York (with one arm) ahead of a healthy Jason Chimera.

7.) Taking too long to trade Tom Poti. Then, when he returned, playing him with a young Eric Brewer rather than a veteran. Then trading him along with a big, veteran centre in Rem Murray for a small forward. Note: we missed the playoffs that year. Although Mike Comrie carried the team on his back that season (2001/2002 - 60 points) while Ryan Smyth was injured.

8.) Playing Igor Ulanov with one bad eye in the 2000-2001 playoffs rather than playing a healthy Sean Brown.

9.) Trading Sean Brown for Bobby Allen.

10.) Trading Mike Grier for 2 draft picks.

11.) Drafting Alexei Mikhinov (no.17) ahead of Brian Sutherby in 2000's entry draft. Accoring to the Edmonton Journal, at last years trade deadline Lowe tried to trade Niinimaa for Sutherby.

12.) Drafting Jani Rita (no.13) ahead of Barret Jackman (no.17) in 1999's draft.

13.) Not getting Barrett Jackman in the Doug Weight trade from St.Louis.

14.) Having too much depth at forward and very little on defense.

15.) Making it hard to like the Oilers: Comrie, Carter, Niinimaa, etc. ....


In management I'm holding Kevin Lowe, Kevin Prendergast, Scott Howson and even Craig MacTavish responsible. I would rather the Oilers fire MacTavish than trade Mike Comrie. Any Oiler fans who miss Comrie, Carter or Niinimaa, how do you feel ?
Good post, while I think K-Lowe and staff are an improvement over Sather and his croynies,but I would only give the management staff a C+ right now. Too many mistakes in talent judgement for a small market club. I find that criticism of the management of the Oilers in this town, is non-existent in the media which allows them to operate with little fear.

HotToddy is offline  
Old
12-04-2003, 10:02 AM
  #6
Axis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 129
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mowzie
I agree 1,000,000% with you.
Here one more question...

-Picking sure shot Steve Kelly instead of fan favourite and hometown boy Shane Doan while thousands of Edmontonions chant "Doan""Doan""Doan""Doan""Doan""Doan""Doan""Doan""D oan""Doan".

Definitely - I was at that draft in 1995.

Axis is offline  
Old
12-04-2003, 10:25 AM
  #7
dawgbone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,104
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to dawgbone Send a message via MSN to dawgbone
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axis
1.) 2003 draft - passing up Zach Parise. Now the number 1 prospect in the Devils system.

2.) 2002 draft - not drafting Jiri Hudler. A young centre who made this years Red Wings team.

3.) signing Tommy Salo to a 3.9 million dollar contract after an awful 2003 playoffs and shaky second half in 2002 (after returning from the 2002 Olympics).

4.) keeping your best player, Ryan Smyth, at 3rd line centre instead of keeping him in his position of 1st line LW (one of the best in the league).

5.) Not signing the franchise player, Mike Comrie, in favour of Tommy Salo (who was the worst of the underachievers in last year's playoffs).

6.) Playing Mike York (with one arm) ahead of a healthy Jason Chimera.

7.) Taking too long to trade Tom Poti. Then, when he returned, playing him with a young Eric Brewer rather than a veteran. Then trading him along with a big, veteran centre in Rem Murray for a small forward. Note: we missed the playoffs that year. Although Mike Comrie carried the team on his back that season (2001/2002 - 60 points) while Ryan Smyth was injured.

8.) Playing Igor Ulanov with one bad eye in the 2000-2001 playoffs rather than playing a healthy Sean Brown.

9.) Trading Sean Brown for Bobby Allen.

10.) Trading Mike Grier for 2 draft picks.

11.) Drafting Alexei Mikhinov (no.17) ahead of Brian Sutherby in 2000's entry draft. Accoring to the Edmonton Journal, at last years trade deadline Lowe tried to trade Niinimaa for Sutherby.

12.) Drafting Jani Rita (no.13) ahead of Barret Jackman (no.17) in 1999's draft.

13.) Not getting Barrett Jackman in the Doug Weight trade from St.Louis.

14.) Having too much depth at forward and very little on defense.

15.) Making it hard to like the Oilers: Comrie, Carter, Niinimaa, etc. ....


In management I'm holding Kevin Lowe, Kevin Prendergast, Scott Howson and even Craig MacTavish responsible. I would rather the Oilers fire MacTavish than trade Mike Comrie. Any Oiler fans who miss Comrie, Carter or Niinimaa, how do you feel ?
1). Picking up Marc-Antoine Pouloit who despite playing behind Sidney Crosby is having a huge year. How about we wait til each player plays a few NHL seasons before crucifying Lowe.

2). Jesse Niinimaki, who despite an injury was making huge strides and impressed a lot of the coaches at the prospects camp.

3). Salo was signed to a multi-year deal a few years ago, so he wasn't signed this summer. Next

4). It's called necessity. Ryan Smyth is the only player we have who has enough skill and enough work ethic to play out of position on a very important line on this team.

5). See # 3.

6). Numbers from Jan 27th (the day York got hurt) on:

Chimera 17 gp 2g 1a -3
York 10 gp 1g 3a -2

Despite being hurt and playing in less games, York out-produced Chimera.

7). LOL... that doesn't even deserved talking about. Next.

8). It's Sean Brown. The same guy the Bruins tried to use as a forward with no success. The same guy who takes more stupid penalties in a season than most players take in a year, and Ulanov was coming off his best season where he was a huge part of the Oilers defence.

9). They are both in the AHL, one is captain of his team and is their best defenceman, the other is Brown.

10). Mike Grier - 106 gp 16g 20a -23, $1.6mil, the player that has taken over for him (Pisani) 60 GP 11g 11a +16, $600K. I love grier (I had his jersey), but he was becoming far too injury prone and way too inconsistant in terms of offensive production. Grier was definitely a better hitter, but Pisani isn't much of a downgrade, and is probably more even when you factor things like health in.

11). Mikhnov's top end potential is astronomically higher than Sutherby's. Just because he tried to trade Niinimaa for him doesn't mean he made the wrong choice, it just means he really wanted them both.

12). Up until last season, there was no argument about that whatsoever. Rita was the best prospect in the NHL, and Jackman was a name not many knew. This argument is weak.

13). Maybe Jackman wasn't available, and St. Louis wasn't going to trade him. That's like saying he should have gotten Demitra.

14). Oh the curses. This is the first time in forever that this team has actually had depth of any kind. And who knows in a few years this team could have one of the best bluelines in the NHL (Staois, Brewer, Semenov, Bergeron, Lynch, Greene).

15). Comrie, Carter, Niinimaa... out of those, I can almost guarantee that the only player most Oiler fans would want right now is Niinimaa, but they would be reluctant to give Torres back. Carter is really lighting things up on broadway right now isn't he? And Lowe isn't caving in on Comrie, which is what most of the fans want.

dawgbone is offline  
Old
12-04-2003, 10:32 AM
  #8
H-Bear
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: North Bay ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,510
vCash: 500
1.) 2003 draft - passing up Zach Parise. Now the number 1 prospect in the Devils system. Pouliot is no embarasment himself. We got McDonald in that trade if memory serves me right.

2.) 2002 draft - not drafting Jiri Hudler. A young centre who made this years Red Wings team. A LOT of teams passed on this guy ... multiple times. Who knows why, but I'll give you this one, simply because I don't have a rebutle.

3.) signing Tommy Salo to a 3.9 million dollar contract after an awful 2003 playoffs and shaky second half in 2002 (after returning from the 2002 Olympics). We were kinda stuck there. All we had was a much less mature Conklin, and Maarkanen. That's some iffy goaltending.

4.) keeping your best player, Ryan Smyth, at 3rd line centre instead of keeping him in his position of 1st line LW (one of the best in the league). AMEN!

5.) Not signing the franchise player, Mike Comrie, in favour of Tommy Salo (who was the worst of the underachievers in last year's playoffs). Mike Comrie was not resigned because of the money, and other reasons; I fail to see what Salo has to do with anything. Salo was not re-signed this year; it is the end of his last contract.

6.) Playing Mike York (with one arm) ahead of a healthy Jason Chimera. Tough to argue that one!

7.) Taking too long to trade Tom Poti. Then, when he returned, playing him with a young Eric Brewer rather than a veteran. Then trading him along with a big, veteran centre in Rem Murray for a small forward. Note: we missed the playoffs that year. Although Mike Comrie carried the team on his back that season (2001/2002 - 60 points) while Ryan Smyth was injured. You have to love the way York has turned out for us though.

8.) Playing Igor Ulanov with one bad eye in the 2000-2001 playoffs rather than playing a healthy Sean Brown. Don't even remember this one.

9.) Trading Sean Brown for Bobby Allen. Brown was a guy who was asking (nay, complaining) for more ice time, when his skill level clearly didn't deserve it. This trade doesn't look so bad right now; Brown is playing for the NJ farm team, while Allen is captain of the RoadRunners.

10.) Trading Mike Grier for 2 draft picks. I thought that was a decent trade; used to draft JF Jacques, and Stortini I think.

11.) Drafting Alexei Mikhinov (no.17) ahead of Brian Sutherby in 2000's entry draft. Accoring to the Edmonton Journal, at last years trade deadline Lowe tried to trade Niinimaa for Sutherby. Despite his lack of NA prescence, I would take Mikhnov any day over Sutherby. Character can be had in the later rounds, while early rounds are best set aside for more skilled players.

12.) Drafting Jani Rita (no.13) ahead of Barret Jackman (no.17) in 1999's draft. This one certainly doesn't look good on them now, but it's easy to say that now, but a lot harder on draft day. Our management can't see the future.

13.) Not getting Barrett Jackman in the Doug Weight trade from St.Louis. Yep. Reasoner's working out though.

14.) Having too much depth at forward and very little on defense. Too much depth isn't a problem, but it's hard to argue the lack of depth on D. Time for Rita to go for a D prospect?

15.) Making it hard to like the Oilers: Comrie, Carter, Niinimaa, etc. .... Minus the Comrie situation, I like our team now more than I did this time last year, but that is only opinion.

H-Bear is offline  
Old
12-04-2003, 10:32 AM
  #9
Ryno
BEHOLD!!
 
Ryno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: G.P
Country: Canada
Posts: 532
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axis
1.) 2003 draft - passing up Zach Parise. Now the number 1 prospect in the Devils system.

2.) 2002 draft - not drafting Jiri Hudler. A young centre who made this years Red Wings team.

3.) signing Tommy Salo to a 3.9 million dollar contract after an awful 2003 playoffs and shaky second half in 2002 (after returning from the 2002 Olympics).

4.) keeping your best player, Ryan Smyth, at 3rd line centre instead of keeping him in his position of 1st line LW (one of the best in the league).

5.) Not signing the franchise player, Mike Comrie, in favour of Tommy Salo (who was the worst of the underachievers in last year's playoffs).

6.) Playing Mike York (with one arm) ahead of a healthy Jason Chimera.

7.) Taking too long to trade Tom Poti. Then, when he returned, playing him with a young Eric Brewer rather than a veteran. Then trading him along with a big, veteran centre in Rem Murray for a small forward. Note: we missed the playoffs that year. Although Mike Comrie carried the team on his back that season (2001/2002 - 60 points) while Ryan Smyth was injured.

8.) Playing Igor Ulanov with one bad eye in the 2000-2001 playoffs rather than playing a healthy Sean Brown.

9.) Trading Sean Brown for Bobby Allen.

10.) Trading Mike Grier for 2 draft picks.

11.) Drafting Alexei Mikhinov (no.17) ahead of Brian Sutherby in 2000's entry draft. Accoring to the Edmonton Journal, at last years trade deadline Lowe tried to trade Niinimaa for Sutherby.

12.) Drafting Jani Rita (no.13) ahead of Barret Jackman (no.17) in 1999's draft.

13.) Not getting Barrett Jackman in the Doug Weight trade from St.Louis.

14.) Having too much depth at forward and very little on defense.

15.) Making it hard to like the Oilers: Comrie, Carter, Niinimaa, etc. ....


In management I'm holding Kevin Lowe, Kevin Prendergast, Scott Howson and even Craig MacTavish responsible. I would rather the Oilers fire MacTavish than trade Mike Comrie. Any Oiler fans who miss Comrie, Carter or Niinimaa, how do you feel ?
Forgive me if I don't rejoice in your uncanny ability of hindsight. I just love how we can all become the world's greatest GMs after we've had three years to reflect on things.

See, I had a long post analysing each point you've made, but I see Dawgbone alrteady beat me to it. Since I agree with everything he said, there's obviously no need to post everything again, although it would be a nice reinforcement.

Consider yourself lucky, I just saved you 3 minutes of reading

Ryno is offline  
Old
12-04-2003, 10:34 AM
  #10
dawgbone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,104
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to dawgbone Send a message via MSN to dawgbone
Quote:
Originally Posted by mowzie
I agree 1,000,000% with you.
Here one more question...

-Picking sure shot Steve Kelly instead of fan favourite and hometown boy Shane Doan while thousands of Edmontonions chant "Doan""Doan""Doan""Doan""Doan""Doan""Doan""Doan""D oan""Doan".
Going by what they did in Junior, Kelly sure looked like a much better pick than Doan.

Hell, the oilers get in trouble now all the time because they keep bringing Edmonton boys in.

dawgbone is offline  
Old
12-04-2003, 10:39 AM
  #11
aspin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Regina
Posts: 1,926
vCash: 500
Boy oh boy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axis
1.) 2003 draft - passing up Zach Parise. Now the number 1 prospect in the Devils system.

2.) 2002 draft - not drafting Jiri Hudler. A young centre who made this years Red Wings team.

3.) signing Tommy Salo to a 3.9 million dollar contract after an awful 2003 playoffs and shaky second half in 2002 (after returning from the 2002 Olympics).

4.) keeping your best player, Ryan Smyth, at 3rd line centre instead of keeping him in his position of 1st line LW (one of the best in the league).

5.) Not signing the franchise player, Mike Comrie, in favour of Tommy Salo (who was the worst of the underachievers in last year's playoffs).

6.) Playing Mike York (with one arm) ahead of a healthy Jason Chimera.

7.) Taking too long to trade Tom Poti. Then, when he returned, playing him with a young Eric Brewer rather than a veteran. Then trading him along with a big, veteran centre in Rem Murray for a small forward. Note: we missed the playoffs that year. Although Mike Comrie carried the team on his back that season (2001/2002 - 60 points) while Ryan Smyth was injured.

8.) Playing Igor Ulanov with one bad eye in the 2000-2001 playoffs rather than playing a healthy Sean Brown.

9.) Trading Sean Brown for Bobby Allen.

10.) Trading Mike Grier for 2 draft picks.

11.) Drafting Alexei Mikhinov (no.17) ahead of Brian Sutherby in 2000's entry draft. Accoring to the Edmonton Journal, at last years trade deadline Lowe tried to trade Niinimaa for Sutherby.

12.) Drafting Jani Rita (no.13) ahead of Barret Jackman (no.17) in 1999's draft.

13.) Not getting Barrett Jackman in the Doug Weight trade from St.Louis.

14.) Having too much depth at forward and very little on defense.

15.) Making it hard to like the Oilers: Comrie, Carter, Niinimaa, etc. ....


In management I'm holding Kevin Lowe, Kevin Prendergast, Scott Howson and even Craig MacTavish responsible. I would rather the Oilers fire MacTavish than trade Mike Comrie. Any Oiler fans who miss Comrie, Carter or Niinimaa, how do you feel ?

I will respond.

1) How can you blame them for that. There are many stars in college (ie. Steve Kariya, etc) that were good in college but too small for here. i like Pouliott unless he is injury prone.

2) What has Jiri done?He has not impressed at all so far.

3) I agree it is a bit high but there are not many starting/experienced goalies making less.

4) Who would you try at centre?

5) It was Mike's decision not to sign not management's.

6) Would have this made any difference? Nope

7) 95% of the Oiler fans would do this again and 95% of NYR fans would reverse this trade in a second. If you cannot see that then well what can we do for you?

8) Igor had a very good season and Sean Brown is at best a 7th defenceman. He was also inexperienced.

9) WHat is wrong with this. Sean is toiling in the minors right with Bobby.

10) This is your biggest mistake here. Colin McDonald and J.F Jaques will be both be miles ahead of Grier.

11) This was not Lowe's draft pick. The souts were in charge of this draft. Lowe just took over. If you have been keeping tabs on our prospects you would see how Mihkonov has blossomed. It will be nice to have a 6'5" centre with skill in the lineup. What has Sutherby done so far?

12) Hindsight is 20/20 and that is what drafting is all about.

13) Jackman was not available from St.Louis. Lowe trie to get him. Sorry no could do.

14) Our depth at forward right now is not that great. A lot of our big draft picks are a couple of years away. You draft the best player's available and then you can trade them for what you want.

15) I think quite a few people like the Oilers and trading Carter makes it that much easier in my view.

aspin is offline  
Old
12-04-2003, 10:43 AM
  #12
FacelessButcher
Registered User
 
FacelessButcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,201
vCash: 500
good post Dawgbone kudos! Axis how do you expect Lowe to know exactly what every player will end up becoming there is a lot of uncertainty in the drafting process no matter how well informed you are and come on Lowe +Pendergast are doing a great job so far.

FacelessButcher is offline  
Old
12-04-2003, 10:57 AM
  #13
Guy Flaming
HFB Partner
 
Guy Flaming's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Press Box & on Air
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,253
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Guy Flaming Send a message via Skype™ to Guy Flaming
I'll agree and disagree with most of what the original psot was but here's my thoughts with some insights from "sources" too.

1) Zach Parise is a good player. Marc-Antoine Pouliot is too. As one scout described it to me... "the differences in pros and cons were miniscule". However, the biggest reason they took Pouliot is because he never gave up and played his ass off all season on a ridiculously crappy team last year in Rimouski. They lost something like 36 games STRAIGHT... many players would let that frustration show and he didn't. Also, if there was a knock against Parise it was that he looked tired near the end of the season... not a really big deal but noteworthy.

Add to the equation that with the trading dow it enabled the Oilers to draft J.F. Jacques too and now you have to look at it this way: Pouliot+Jacques > Parise.

So I disagree with you on that point.

2) Hudler went 59th overall so A LOT of teams passed on him, not just the Oilers. Still, before the 58th pick the Oilers drafted 4 players... Niinimakki, Stoll, Deslauriers and Greene and I wouldn't trade any of them one for one for Hudler today.

So I disagree there too.

3) Tough to forsee back then that Tommy would slide as far as he has. Back then it was a steal to have locked up Salo for that price for so long. Hindsight is 20/20.

4) This one I completely agree with you on. Ryan Smyth needs to be back there ASAP.

5) They tried to sign Comrie... many times. The only reason Mike isn't playing for the Oilers today... is Mike.

6) Last year I assume? Agreed.

7) They showed patience with Poti which, if it had of paid off, we would all be thankful for now. I thnk they did great in the trade though.

8) you say potato, I say who cares? Like Brown would have one us a series?

9) We won that trade. Bobby Allen has a future... maybe in the NHL but maybe not. Sean Brown is done like dinner.

10) Agreed. Tough trading Grier away for picks but that was a deal done to make room for Dopita's salary. It's only bad because Dopita bombed so badly.

11) Not fair to say one way or the other yet. Ask me again in two years when Mikhnov is on the second line in Edmonton. (crossing fingers).

12) There's that hindsight again. I guess the 14th, 15th and 16th teams were idiots too though?

13) Like St. Louis was that dumb. Lowe was held hostage on that one and did the best he could under the circumstances.

14) Agreed.

15) Who misses Anson Carter??? Too bad about Niinimaa true but life goes on. Comrie???? His camp is the bad guy in this movie in my opinion.

16) Drafting Kelly over Doan was bad bad bad. But it was done by other management. Prendergast is the only one who was around then and he was just a scout under Barry Fraser. Blame Fraser and Sather not the current organization for that one.

GuyF

Guy Flaming is offline  
Old
12-04-2003, 12:40 PM
  #14
Master Lok
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 7,049
vCash: 500
Doesn't sound like there's much support for your criticism of the Oiler management Axis. I agree with Dawgbone's post. I would still rank the Oiler management a very solid B+, considering the financial left arm tied behind back.

Master Lok is offline  
Old
12-04-2003, 05:27 PM
  #15
Mr Sakich
Registered User
 
Mr Sakich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Motel 35
Posts: 8,260
vCash: 500
I am going to take a two minute penalty for piling on. Most of your criticisms are pretty weak. Unlike you, Lowe had to make judgement calls and the vast majority have turned out pretty good.

Two of your arguements are for not getting barret jackman. I think there is some uninformed opinions on jackman. He won the calder but guess how many points he got last year?






wait for it






wait for it







3 goals, 16 assists. Playing with the best defenseman last year ( al mcciniss ) on that powerplay, Bergeron would have doubled those numbers. With Al out of the lineup, he is currently at 1g, 2 assits, -2.
I think he is a pretty good dman but he sure isn't worth condeming a gm over missing.

Mr Sakich is offline  
Old
12-04-2003, 06:03 PM
  #16
Cerebral
Registered User
 
Cerebral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,813
vCash: 500
To add to the assessments of many other posters, it is a lot easier to pick the best players four or five years after the draft! Hudler is still very young, as is Pouliot.. it is foolish to assume that Jiri will be the better player simply because he cracked the Red Wings squad this year. The Oilers also "passed" on Havlat, Vrbata and Boynton in favor of Rita in 1999. The draft is essentially a modified crap-shoot when it comes down to it.. far more duds are drafted than studs! While the Oilers track record has been pretty dismal in the past, you can't completely blame management for not drafting a guy like Jackman.. obviously there was something at the time that made Rita look like the better NHL'er to them. Give Rita a chance at the NHL level as well before you start blaming management.. maybe he is a late bloomer! Lehtinen was drafted in 1992 and didn't start playing in the NHL till 1995!

Cerebral is offline  
Old
12-04-2003, 06:34 PM
  #17
Oi'll say!
Go Flames
 
Oi'll say!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oil in 9
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,220
vCash: 500
Parise and Hudler? Give me a break.

The Oilers had Comrie, a bonafide nhl'er, filling the small center role here better than you could rely on any prospect to do in the future. Would you want to see Comrie, Hudler, Parise, Hemsky, and York all on the same team next season? Denis Gauthier would be running around like Gargamel for Pete's sake.


I agree that the Brown/Allen trade still looks very bad for us contrary to what some others say. Allen's chances of making the nhl full-time are still slim IMO (Lynch will probably be in the nhl b4 Allen will, Greene too) but nevertheless the Oilers defense and Tommy Salo have never been better than they were with Brown in the lineup, and that's a fact that's proven easily enough. Just how much of that you want to attribute to Brown is a matter of opinion, but the main core of the D-corps that were here with Brown were still here last year and our defense was down bigtime over the previous season.

Brown was the biggest menace this team has ever had within ten feet of the front of the net and I object to any notion of his penalties being lumped in the stupid category. Lots of guys in this conference feared him more than anyone fears BG. Brown would hurt you bad if he wanted to, BG asks guys for permission b4 he does anything that would warrant more than a stern look from the referee.

Oi'll say! is offline  
Old
12-04-2003, 06:51 PM
  #18
Hemmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ethan Moreau for MVP! NOW! VOTE!
Posts: 675
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral
To add to the assessments of many other posters, it is a lot easier to pick the best players four or five years after the draft! Hudler is still very young, as is Pouliot.. it is foolish to assume that Jiri will be the better player simply because he cracked the Red Wings squad this year. The Oilers also "passed" on Havlat, Vrbata and Boynton in favor of Rita in 1999. The draft is essentially a modified crap-shoot when it comes down to it.. far more duds are drafted than studs! While the Oilers track record has been pretty dismal in the past, you can't completely blame management for not drafting a guy like Jackman.. obviously there was something at the time that made Rita look like the better NHL'er to them. Give Rita a chance at the NHL level as well before you start blaming management.. maybe he is a late bloomer! Lehtinen was drafted in 1992 and didn't start playing in the NHL till 1995!
The Red Wings squad that, like the Oil before Oates, had like two natural centers that were healthy. They had to play Hudler...like we had to play Sarno I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral
To add to the assessments of many other posters, it is a lot easier to pick the best players four or five years after the draft!
Yeah. This isn't even a valid thing to complain about IMO. Hindsight is always 20/20, and it is silly to expect a perfect drafting record. Anything better than 30% of drafted players making the NHL and you are doing very well for yourself.

Hemmer is offline  
Old
12-04-2003, 07:25 PM
  #19
Walsher
Registered User
 
Walsher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 5,339
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oi'll say!
Parise and Hudler? Give me a break.

The Oilers had Comrie, a bonafide nhl'er, filling the small center role here better than you could rely on any prospect to do in the future. Would you want to see Comrie, Hudler, Parise, Hemsky, and York all on the same team next season? Denis Gauthier would be running around like Gargamel for Pete's sake.


I agree that the Brown/Allen trade still looks very bad for us contrary to what some others say. Allen's chances of making the nhl full-time are still slim IMO (Lynch will probably be in the nhl b4 Allen will, Greene too) but nevertheless the Oilers defense and Tommy Salo have never been better than they were with Brown in the lineup, and that's a fact that's proven easily enough. Just how much of that you want to attribute to Brown is a matter of opinion, but the main core of the D-corps that were here with Brown were still here last year and our defense was down bigtime over the previous season.

Brown was the biggest menace this team has ever had within ten feet of the front of the net and I object to any notion of his penalties being lumped in the stupid category. Lots of guys in this conference feared him more than anyone fears BG. Brown would hurt you bad if he wanted to, BG asks guys for permission b4 he does anything that would warrant more than a stern look from the referee.
Sean Brown was and always will be a plug 6-7 defensman. He took ridiculous penalties - most of them in the first minutes of the game leading to early defecits. He was a defensive liability and no offensive upside. He is now a castoff elsewhere like he should have been here. Is he supposed to be so good because he would hurt people without even batting an eye? The only pain he was unleashing was to Oilers fans as he continuously looked brutal on the ice. If the Sean Brown for Bobby Allen trade is the root of the Oilers current slump than this team is really in a world of hurt.

Walsher is offline  
Old
12-04-2003, 07:51 PM
  #20
Lowetide
Registered User
 
Lowetide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,281
vCash: 500
I think Lowe/Prendergast/Howson and the rest have done an exceptional job of improving talent in the system. Hemsky, Markkanen, Pisa, Haakana, Stoll have already helped, with Lynch, Pouliot, Niinimaki, Greene and any number of long range picks (Johansson, Radunske, Smith) progressing nicely.

Added to that is the signing of players like Conklin and Bergeron.

I doubt any of us who feel strongly one way or another about the current management group will be swayed by the other side, but I'm impressed that so many posters still support Lowe during a time when the team is at a low ebb.

Lowetide is offline  
Old
12-04-2003, 08:01 PM
  #21
Walsher
Registered User
 
Walsher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 5,339
vCash: 500
To me whats not to support? He has done everything in his power to keep this team playing at a highly competitive level.

Poti for York - a definate upgrade. IMO York is the Oilers best all around player and has helped immensely.

Carter-Pisa for Dvorak-Cross - this too was another steal. Dvorak really wants to be in Edmonton and his game is perfectly suited for Oilers hockey. Carter wanted out whether he said so publicly or not. As ugly as Cross has been lately he is a definate upgrade on Pisa.

Niniimaa for Isbister-Torres - the jury is still out on this one to many people. Personally I feel that Lowe was able to get a very good value in return for Janne. Torres has always been coveted by the Oilers and has proven his worth. As inconsistent as Isbister has been has has shown flashes of that potential he has even through a tough start do to injury. Really the Oilers got younger, cheaper, deeper up front, with giving up a guy they would have likely lost anyways.

Signing guys like Staios, Oates - giving opportunity to Reasoner, Pisani, Stoll. To me very good moves that often fo unnoticed.

Drafting has improved dramatically since the Sather debocles of the mid 90's. Hemsky, Niniimaki, Poulliot, Stoll, etc. The players are in place. The management has done its job in getting a team that is competitive while still producing youth in the system that will be able to fill in when ready.

Walsher is offline  
Old
12-04-2003, 08:05 PM
  #22
Cerebral
Registered User
 
Cerebral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,813
vCash: 500
However, it is nice to dream where we'd be at if we had drafted Doan instead of Kelly, Morris instead of Devereaux and Gagne instead of Henrich..

Cerebral is offline  
Old
12-04-2003, 08:14 PM
  #23
Walsher
Registered User
 
Walsher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 5,339
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral
However, it is nice to dream where we'd be at if we had drafted Doan instead of Kelly, Morris instead of Devereaux and Gagne instead of Henrich..
Actually that management is long gone. Sather was responsible for all those moves so you cannot bring that back in this discussion as it has nothing to do with the current management.

Walsher is offline  
Old
12-04-2003, 08:17 PM
  #24
Mizral
Registered User
 
Mizral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Earth, MW
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,175
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
I doubt any of us who feel strongly one way or another about the current management group will be swayed by the other side, but I'm impressed that so many posters still support Lowe during a time when the team is at a low ebb.
If you remember, even weeks before Craig Button was fired, Calgary fans felt staunchly that he was a good GM, too. A month later, Button was a fool.

I think many fans identify their allegiance to a team as through the general manager as much as the players. In fact, some take it so far that any questioning of the GM's abilities is considered as an attack on the team, the fans, and the city. In fact, lowetide, I'm sure you might remember a very long thread that had me and you (amongst others) arguing about Lowe's ability as a GM (and breifly about MacTavish's ability as a coach).

Still, enough losing will turn even the most staunchest allies to a manager or a coach against them.

The most optimistic fans, such as yourself, lowetide, could be accused of perhaps overlooking mistakes or weakness' in a manager, whereas the pessimists are all too quick to run a guy out of town.

Still, most fans are ruthless optimists. In particular with Lowe as he was a former player (and a very good one at that).

Mizral is offline  
Old
12-04-2003, 08:58 PM
  #25
Cerebral
Registered User
 
Cerebral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,813
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walsher
Actually that management is long gone. Sather was responsible for all those moves so you cannot bring that back in this discussion as it has nothing to do with the current management.
I wasn't trying to bring it back into discussion, I know that management is long gone.. hence the "It's nice to dream" introduction to my post..

Cerebral is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:03 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.