HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Colorado Avalanche
Notices

Sakic: I'd like to do something with the organization

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-22-2007, 12:44 PM
  #26
KL*
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,022
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
Judging by the name -- SCThrash -- I'd surmise he's a Thrasher fan.
Thrashers first and foremost, but Avalanche as well. Unfortunately, the Thrasher board is boring, and, I hate to say it, they don't know too much about hockey.

KL* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2007, 12:45 PM
  #27
Golden Foppa
Registered User
 
Golden Foppa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Boulder, CO
Country: United States
Posts: 4,489
vCash: 500
Joe leads by example and does one hell of a job of it. Being a leader does not require someone to be vocal. Maybe the type of leader that you prefer is very vocal, but that doesn't mean that Sakic is not a leader because of it.

Golden Foppa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2007, 12:46 PM
  #28
KL*
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,022
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensane View Post
A while back, Dr. No made an interesting analysis about goalie coaches, where usually the goalies turned coaches who weren't quite as talented ended up being better coaches. This was a result of them being forced to work harder on fundamentals, and therefore they were better at offering guidance of the very same fundamentals for the younger goaltenders they coached. On the other hand, the better goaltenders who had immense amounts of natural talent would have a harder time identifying and communicating with goalies they coached who were seemingly not on the same talent plane.

The analysis makes logical sense, and I'd say that it is just as applicable for regular coaches as well.
Those who can, do.
Those who can't, teach.

KL* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2007, 12:47 PM
  #29
KL*
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,022
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Foppa View Post
Joe leads by example and does one hell of a job of it. Being a leader does not require someone to be vocal. Maybe the type of leader that you prefer is very vocal, but that doesn't mean that Sakic is not a leader because of it.
We've already beaten that one to death, and nobody was able to produce an argument that Sakic is a good leader, even in a lead-by-example manner. Lots of mentions of Cups and loyalty and whatnot, but there was no argument that encompassed actual leadership traits.

KL* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2007, 12:49 PM
  #30
Chalupa Batman
Mod Supervisor
 
Chalupa Batman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 22,911
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCThrash View Post
Those who can, do.
Those who can't, teach.
That's overly simplistic.

Chalupa Batman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2007, 12:51 PM
  #31
NHL33*
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Country: Antarctica
Posts: 7,873
vCash: 500
Is this argument really necessary here? It's not been stated he's going to be a coach for sure... And, if he were one, we don't know how well he'd do. Usually great players don't make great coaches statistically, but they can. It's not impossible. In any case...until Sakic really does start coaching, we shouldn't praise/criticize his coaching skills, no?

NHL33* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2007, 12:59 PM
  #32
ColoradoHockeyFan
Registered User
 
ColoradoHockeyFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denver area
Country: United States
Posts: 9,367
vCash: 500
Looks like they replayed that bowling feature on this morning's news:

http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=63551

Haven't seen a link to the Sakic interview, though.

ColoradoHockeyFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2007, 01:04 PM
  #33
Gumballhead
Registered User
 
Gumballhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,738
vCash: 500
I think people get tired of hearing the same thing over and over, especially in a short amount of time, and if the same handful of people are going to chime in with the same criticism every time a certain player is mentioned, it gets old. When you talk about a player as beloved as Sakic, people are going to notice more.

Basically, I think anyone who's read these forums of late has a pretty good idea that SCThrash and ABasin don't think Sakic is a good captain/leader. You'd have to be an idiot not to get that. Having it beat over our heads nearly every time someone mentions Sakic makes me feel like they think we are idiots. I don't think this is the case, I'm just saying: We get it. It's probably not necessary to keep throwing it out there. The discussion obviously creates more heat than light, so why keep debating it over the course of several threads when the one where it got started got shut down? I don't say this because I disagree; I say it because resurrecting old arguments is tedious. Maybe we can revisit it later, but for me it's a tired subject now.

Gumballhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2007, 01:16 PM
  #34
KL*
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,022
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor No View Post
That's overly simplistic.
...says the professor...

KL* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2007, 01:19 PM
  #35
KL*
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,022
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Record Robot View Post
I think people get tired of hearing the same thing over and over, especially in a short amount of time, and if the same handful of people are going to chime in with the same criticism every time a certain player is mentioned, it gets old. When you talk about a player as beloved as Sakic, people are going to notice more.

Basically, I think anyone who's read these forums of late has a pretty good idea that SCThrash and ABasin don't think Sakic is a good captain/leader. You'd have to be an idiot not to get that. Having it beat over our heads nearly every time someone mentions Sakic makes me feel like they think we are idiots. I don't think this is the case, I'm just saying: We get it. It's probably not necessary to keep throwing it out there. The discussion obviously creates more heat than light, so why keep debating it over the course of several threads when the one where it got started got shut down? I don't say this because I disagree; I say it because resurrecting old arguments is tedious. Maybe we can revisit it later, but for me it's a tired subject now.
Post #2 in this thread came from one of the two most vocal pro-leadership myth people from the other thread, and was obviously intended to instigate.

People think Sakic is a great leader (for no apparent reason), we get it. It's probably not necessary to keep throwing it out there. Works both ways.

KL* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2007, 01:22 PM
  #36
Chalupa Batman
Mod Supervisor
 
Chalupa Batman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 22,911
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCThrash View Post
...says the professor...
That's right - attack the messenger and not the message.

Chalupa Batman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2007, 01:26 PM
  #37
KL*
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,022
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor No View Post
That's right - attack the messenger and not the message.
Wasn't meant as an attack. I respect your posts here. You seem to attack every issue with a firm logical stance, and I appreciate that.

I guess I should have ended put a little winking smiley at the end or something.

My initial comment was an oversimplification, but that doesn't change the fact that despite the exceptions, the rule is still valid.

KL* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2007, 01:28 PM
  #38
Chalupa Batman
Mod Supervisor
 
Chalupa Batman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 22,911
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCThrash View Post
Wasn't meant as an attack. I respect your posts here. You seem to attack every issue with a firm logical stance, and I appreciate that.

I guess I should have ended put a little winking smiley at the end or something.

My initial comment was an oversimplification, but that doesn't change the fact that despite the exceptions, the rule is still valid.
Fair enough, and appreciated. I'm a bit touchy around here the past few weeks.

Chalupa Batman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2007, 01:41 PM
  #39
Gumballhead
Registered User
 
Gumballhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,738
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCThrash View Post
Post #2 in this thread came from one of the two most vocal pro-leadership myth people from the other thread, and was obviously intended to instigate.

People think Sakic is a great leader (for no apparent reason), we get it. It's probably not necessary to keep throwing it out there. Works both ways.
So give 'em 5 minutes for instigating, and take the high road. You come across as intelligent and rational, so it should be easy for you to hold off now and again. If there were a thread that was specifically for arguing this particular point, then it would be easy for those of us who are sick of reading people argue about it to avoid. Even in your short reply to me, you parenthetically threw in the "for no apparent reason," which makes me think you won't ever stop bringing this up, whether someone else makes an instigatory remark or not. I'm all for discussion, but topics can get beat to death if it's the same people going back and forth, and especially when it reaches the level where a lot of it is barbs and bickering.

Gumballhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2007, 02:38 PM
  #40
Roman Tanner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Mgmt. Excuseville
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,743
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCThrash View Post
All of the above attributes are commendable. None of them have anything to do with leadership.
I 100% disagree with your definition of leadership then.

Roman Tanner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2007, 02:43 PM
  #41
RockLobster
Moderator
Beatles Guru
 
RockLobster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas
Country: Germany
Posts: 11,626
vCash: 905
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCThrash View Post
Post #2 in this thread came from one of the two most vocal pro-leadership myth people from the other thread, and was obviously intended to instigate.

People think Sakic is a great leader (for no apparent reason), we get it. It's probably not necessary to keep throwing it out there. Works both ways.
I'm wondering how rozier's remarks could be intended to instigate?

All he said was that he believes that it's good that Joe now has a secure place in the organization, and he thinks that he deserves one.

No where in his quote did he say anything remotely instagatory. I, dare I say it, believe that you quasi-highjacked this thread with your continued Sakic/Leadership remarks.

Now, to try and veer the thread BACK on course...

Who knows if Joe would WANT to try his hand at being a head coach, but what if he becomes like a PP Coach or something like that? Or like I said, a developmental coach? Maybe he works with the prospects/rookies at their camps or something?

__________________


Thought I'd been in love before, but in my heart I wanted more. Seems like all I really was doing was waiting for you - John Lennon/The Beatles
RockLobster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2007, 02:51 PM
  #42
KL*
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,022
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman Tanner View Post
I 100% disagree with your definition of leadership then.
You should read about leadership and take some leadership training then.

Actually, I guess perhaps that might be the disconnect here. I have been trained in leadership for over half my life. I majored in management in college, went through leadership programs at a couple Fortune 500 companies, and have held numerous leadership positions. What seems common sense about leadership to me might not be to someone who lacks that background.

Sakic, and this is the last I will say on this subject, does not take an active role in leading the team. The whole concept of "leadership by example" is that you are nothing more than a good role model. That works on a veteran team, and being a role model is one of the key aspects of being a leader.

But there is far more to leadership than just playing hard and being a good role model. Sakic's leadership is clearly ineffective, as is evidenced by the Avalanche's under-achievement under Sakic's reign. And if you think just two Cups over that span was not under-achievement, then you have dangerously low standards for what this team should have achieved.

KL* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2007, 04:08 PM
  #43
Gumballhead
Registered User
 
Gumballhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,738
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCThrash View Post
You should read about leadership and take some leadership training then.

Actually, I guess perhaps that might be the disconnect here. I have been trained in leadership for over half my life. I majored in management in college, went through leadership programs at a couple Fortune 500 companies, and have held numerous leadership positions. What seems common sense about leadership to me might not be to someone who lacks that background.
I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany.

Gumballhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2007, 04:09 PM
  #44
Mules
Waiting for hockey
 
Mules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,010
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Record Robot View Post
I think people get tired of hearing the same thing over and over, especially in a short amount of time, and if the same handful of people are going to chime in with the same criticism every time a certain player is mentioned, it gets old. When you talk about a player as beloved as Sakic, people are going to notice more.

Basically, I think anyone who's read these forums of late has a pretty good idea that SCThrash and ABasin don't think Sakic is a good captain/leader. You'd have to be an idiot not to get that. Having it beat over our heads nearly every time someone mentions Sakic makes me feel like they think we are idiots. I don't think this is the case, I'm just saying: We get it. It's probably not necessary to keep throwing it out there. The discussion obviously creates more heat than light, so why keep debating it over the course of several threads when the one where it got started got shut down? I don't say this because I disagree; I say it because resurrecting old arguments is tedious. Maybe we can revisit it later, but for me it's a tired subject now.
IF Joe is not a good leader, I wonder who can fill up that role? I can't imagine what SCTrash and ABasin think of Markus Naslund, if they had low view on Joey.

I think some fans are very spoiled, they have nonobjective, unrealistic view of a leader. Not only the guy has to play incredible, but he also has to be vocal, passionate etc. Fact is, hockey teams are not like build-a-bear. You can't pick certain traits and build it in a player.

At almost the end of his career, it's sad to see some fans bashing Joe's legacy.

PS: All Star break this week, so I guess the discussion will circle around until next week.

Mules is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2007, 04:10 PM
  #45
Mules
Waiting for hockey
 
Mules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,010
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post

Who knows if Joe would WANT to try his hand at being a head coach, but what if he becomes like a PP Coach or something like that? Or like I said, a developmental coach? Maybe he works with the prospects/rookies at their camps or something?

He said he doesn't like to travel, so I am assuming he will be a VP like Yzerman and works his way up.

Mules is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2007, 04:48 PM
  #46
RockLobster
Moderator
Beatles Guru
 
RockLobster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas
Country: Germany
Posts: 11,626
vCash: 905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mules View Post
He said he doesn't like to travel, so I am assuming he will be a VP like Yzerman and works his way up.
I meant in the future, who knows if he'd even want to try coaching. Sorry, realized after I posted that I forgot that first part.

RockLobster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2007, 04:52 PM
  #47
RockLobster
Moderator
Beatles Guru
 
RockLobster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas
Country: Germany
Posts: 11,626
vCash: 905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Record Robot View Post
I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany.


You're missing the best part of Burgandy's quote there!!

"I don't know if you know this, but I'm kind of a big deal. People know me."

Still though, you crack me up RR, I've had to put in Anchorman just because of that!

RockLobster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2007, 06:02 PM
  #48
rozier24
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Atlanta
Country: United States
Posts: 317
vCash: 545
Send a message via MSN to rozier24
Quote:
Originally Posted by rozier24 View Post
Good to here Joe is not going anywhere.

He deserves a place in this organization as long as he wants it.
Yeah Definitely way off topic. Didn't have anything to do with the first post in the thread. I could instigate if you would like but it would be just too easy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCThrash View Post
If it ends up that he remains in Colorado until his career is over with, then so be it. We won't win anything until he's gone, but I can wait.

Just as long as he's not talking about getting into coaching when he's done. The last thing we need is a guy like Sakic coaching our team. Jeez, I thought Quenneville was bad. Imagine Quenneville with absolutely ZERO fire...
Can I ask where coaching was mentioned?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCThrash View Post
All of the above attributes are commendable. None of them have anything to do with leadership.
And leadership?

I thought we were talking about an interview of our captain staying with the organization after he retires. (In some capacity)



Milestone Post Here #100. Yeah lol.


Last edited by rozier24: 01-22-2007 at 06:09 PM.
rozier24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2007, 08:51 PM
  #49
fullclip
Prepare to die
 
fullclip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: UBC
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,588
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasbro View Post
So he'll be back after he takes the league minimum to sign with Vancouver?
Your obsessive hate for the Canucks and their fans knows no bounds does it? I dont know where this whole Vancouver for the league minimum thing came from but Ive seen you mention it EVERY time anybody asks about Sakic possibly leaving.

fullclip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2007, 08:59 PM
  #50
Frenchy
Global Moderator
 
Frenchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Alma, QC.
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,287
vCash: 3375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Wrister View Post
Your obsessive hate for the Canucks and their fans knows no bounds does it? I dont know where this whole Vancouver for the league minimum thing came from but Ive seen you mention it EVERY time anybody asks about Sakic possibly leaving.
what's going on , on this board lately ?
People are allways on the edge
Is it cause we will only have a single hockey game this week ??

Frenchy is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:35 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.