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Worst trade in franchise history?

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Old
01-26-2007, 01:46 AM
  #1
Jonathan Iilahti*
 
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Worst trade in franchise history?

What is the single worst trade ever made by the Panthers?

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01-26-2007, 02:00 AM
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39ontheline
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Luongo and Krajicek for Bertuzzi Allen and Auld

VERY CLOSE 2ND

(Its been 10 years or so can you believe it???) Barnes and Woolley for Chris Wells

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01-26-2007, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 39ontheline View Post
Luongo and Krajicek for Bertuzzi Allen and Auld

VERY CLOSE 2ND

(Its been 10 years or so can you believe it???) Barnes and Woolley for Chris Wells
My opinion is that if you analyze any team and its player trades, you will see that result at the end is +-0. Anyways, it's closed market and if you as GM take advantage of another GM, nobody will deal with you anymore.

PS. I haven't done any analysis, long time ago I heard a quote from GM saying abovementioned.

JOL

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01-26-2007, 07:44 AM
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Georgia Panther
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I would say the Luongo trade is far from the Panthers worst, mainly because this is the Salary Cap era and while Allen may be the only useful player to come back in the trade, you still have $5.2 million dollars to spend, Bertuzzi's present salary, to acquire other players and have been prevented from making the mistake in investing $6 million dollars of Cap Space on the goalies position, which I wouldn't do FOR ANY GOALIE, not just Luongo.

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01-26-2007, 07:45 AM
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I won't vote, but let me nominate:
Stu Barnes and Jason Woolley for Chris Wells
Pavel Bure for Igor Ulanov and Filip Novak.
Dan Boyle for Ryan Johnson
Viktor Kozlov for Viktor Uchevatov and Christian Berglund
Scott Mellanby for David Morrisette
Rhett Warrener for Mike Wilson
Jaroslav Spacek for Anders Eriksson
2008 1st round pick (#1 overall, Vincent Lecavalier) for Viktor Kozlov

oh, yeah - Roberto Luongo, Lukas Krajicek, and a 3rd round pick this year for Alex Auld, Bryan Allen, and Todd Bertuzzi. Thanks, GP

I've got more but am having a real problem remembering names today.

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01-26-2007, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnoughExcuses View Post
Pavel Bure for Igor Ulanov and Filip Novak.
What's really funny about that trade is that we didn't actually lose. Rangers barely got anything out of Bure and we do still have a player in our system from that trade: Rob Globke. Rangers have nothing to show for it.

New York Rangers traded Filip Novak, Igor Ulanov, a 1st round selection (later traded to Calgary - Eric Nystrom) in 2002, a 2nd round selection (Rob Globke) in 2002 and a 4th round selection in 2003 to the Florida Panthers for Pavel Bure and a 2nd round selection (Lee Falardeau) in 2002.

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01-26-2007, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgia Panther View Post
I would say the Luongo trade is far from the Panthers worst, mainly because this is the Salary Cap era and while Allen may be the only useful player to come back in the trade, you still have $5.2 million dollars to spend, Bertuzzi's present salary, to acquire other players and have been prevented from making the mistake in investing $6 million dollars of Cap Space on the goalies position, which I wouldn't do FOR ANY GOALIE, not just Luongo.
I don't have an opinion on the worst trade but I agree with GP for the well thought out reasons cited that the Luongo trade was definitely not the worst.

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01-26-2007, 09:27 AM
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Worst trade:

Dudley for Keenan

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01-26-2007, 09:47 AM
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The Luongo deal takes the title from 10 year runner Stu Barnes, Jason Woolley for Chris Wells (the next Eric Lindros claimed BM)

Dont think I saw anyone mention this horrifier yet

Rhett Warrener + 4th for Mike Wilson

Even at the time the 4th would been enough for Mike Wilson

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01-26-2007, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
Worst trade:

Dudley for Keenan
Amazing that we lost on both accounts.

Still, I think it's too early to judge the Luongo trade that easily yet. It sure seems bad now but who knows what might happen with the guys we got. See, what really defines a bad trade is not just losing a good or great player, but getting absolute jack in return. I don't know about the other players but since the new year, Allen has really stepped up his play and I don't think he'll be a useless player.

I think worst is easily defined as Barnes and Woolley for Wells. Barnes and Woolley didn't just have success after they left, they managed to get to the Stanley Cup Finals with Buffalo and have each seen many subsequent playoff games.

Chris Wells? The ultimate in uselessness. I don't think the guy ever had one good game, not fit for the AHL the Sun-Sentinel once said. Now THAT is a bad trade.

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01-26-2007, 09:56 AM
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the luongo trade is EASILY the worst trade this franchise has ever made. just brutal. auld is terrible bertuzzi is jumpin ship after never even playing. allen is decent but luongo is one of the top 5 goalies in the game. easily the worst trade.

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01-26-2007, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthers Rock View Post
Amazing that we lost on both accounts.

Still, I think it's too early to judge the Luongo trade that easily yet. It sure seems bad now but who knows what might happen with the guys we got. See, what really defines a bad trade is not just losing a good or great player, but getting absolute jack in return. I don't know about the other players but since the new year, Allen is has really stepped up his play and I don't think he'll be a useless player.

I think worst is easily defined as Barnes and Woolley for Wells. Barnes and Woolley didn't just have success after they left, they managed to get to the Stanley Cup Finals with Buffalo and have each seen many subsequent playoff games.

Chris Wells? The ultimate in uselessness. I don't think the guy ever had one good game, not fit for the AHL the Sun-Sentinel once said. Now THAT is a bad trade.

The Luongo deal

Bertuzzi will walk
Auld wont ever carry a team
Allen could devolep into a solid #4 dman

We only gave up TOP 3 goalie in the world and a young dman with good upside

The only way this turns into something good.. Bertuzzi signs multi-year under 5M$, Auld can stop a beach ball and Allen turns it totally around.

We could get cap space with moving Luongo but now we have a gaping hole in net. Something very hard maybe impossible to replae. We didnt even get a single top prospect or even prospect in the deal. I cant believe we even threw in a 4th rounder! We all know that cap space wont be used to sign any big names. It'll be used to sign our RFA's to new 1 year contracts.

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01-26-2007, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mogo View Post
The Luongo deal

Bertuzzi will walk
Auld wont ever carry a team
Allen could devolep into a solid #4 dman

We only gave up TOP 3 goalie in the world and a young dman with good upside

The only way this turns into something good.. Bertuzzi signs multi-year under 5M$, Auld can stop a beach ball and Allen turns it totally around.

We could get cap space with moving Luongo but now we have a gaping hole in net. Something very hard maybe impossible to replae. We didnt even get a single top prospect or even prospect in the deal. I cant believe we even threw in a 4th rounder! We all know that cap space wont be used to sign any big names. It'll be used to sign our RFA's to new 1 year contracts.
Heh, threw in a 6th rounder, not a 4th, the 6th will likely be useless. But yeah, Keenan's a moron. I could argue that obviously Allen alone >>> Wells but that's obvious.

Anyway it's speculation about any of that right now but it is still as of now a pretty horrible trade.

Isn't it amazing how we turn an entirely amazing lopsided trade like Jokinen/Luongo for Parrish/Kvasha into this? Oh well, at least that trade is STILL onesided, you couldn't do Jokinen alone for Parrish/Kvasha today.

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01-26-2007, 10:14 AM
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Meh.. Give bertuzzi a chance he played freakin less than 10 games this season..


i for one think he will resign- he may he may not, but i think he will, and i think he will be great for us..


we can just get another goalie via ufa.


jesus the world isnt going to end guys.

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01-26-2007, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthers Rock View Post

Chris Wells? The ultimate in uselessness. I don't think the guy ever had one good game, not fit for the AHL the Sun-Sentinel once said. Now THAT is a bad trade.
Useless ? I beg to differ. Wells scored 1 goal. It bounced off his helmet.

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01-26-2007, 11:06 AM
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Dont think I saw anyone mention this horrifier yet

Rhett Warrener + 4th for Mike Wilson

Even at the time the 4th would been enough for Mike Wilson
I did, but I didn't recall the 4th. Then again I can't even remember half the players' names today.

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01-26-2007, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by jol View Post
My opinion is that if you analyze any team and its player trades, you will see that result at the end is +-0.
JOL
Totally disagree. There's a thread on the NHL forum about what teams would look like if trading didn't exist. There's a pretty big difference between Buffalo, who would have had a terrible team but has traded well, and the Islanders, who would have had a spectacular team but has traded miserably.




http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=336103

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01-26-2007, 11:16 AM
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Meh.. Give bertuzzi a chance he played freakin less than 10 games this season..

i for one think he will resign- he may he may not, but i think he will, and i think he will be great for us..

we can just get another goalie via ufa.

jesus the world isnt going to end guys.
Stop double-spacing
Anyway, I was just thinking about this in response to Mogo's post. With the new unrestricted free agency rules, if the team's willing to pay for a goalie, there will always be decent goalies available starting as early as this off-season. 7 professional seasons (or 6?) or age 27 (well, still 28 this year, isn't it? Grandfathering it in?).

Anyway, goalies don't reach their prime until they reach 28-30 years, and they'll all be eligible for free agency at that point. Smart signings could take care of that problem. So then it's just a question of making sure we don't develop other holes in the meantime. That will take several steps:

1) Sign Giguere or Biron this offseason to show pending free agents you're committed to winning and sign them long-term.
2) Improve the scouting department - they're good at picking 4th liners, but when was the last time the Panthers drafted prime scoring talent outside of the top 10?
3) Maintain coaching and management stability so the team can develop an identity and start winning some games.

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01-26-2007, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by EnoughExcuses View Post
oh, yeah - Roberto Luongo, Lukas Krajicek, and a 3rd round pick this year for Alex Auld, Bryan Allen, and Todd Bertuzzi. Thanks, GP
There was a 3rd round draft pick somewhere in there?

Can somebody confirm that??

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01-26-2007, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnoughExcuses View Post
Stop double-spacing
Anyway, I was just thinking about this in response to Mogo's post. With the new unrestricted free agency rules, if the team's willing to pay for a goalie, there will always be decent goalies available starting as early as this off-season. 7 professional seasons (or 6?) or age 27 (well, still 28 this year, isn't it? Grandfathering it in?).

Anyway, goalies don't reach their prime until they reach 28-30 years, and they'll all be eligible for free agency at that point. Smart signings could take care of that problem. So then it's just a question of making sure we don't develop other holes in the meantime. That will take several steps:

1) Sign Giguere or Biron this offseason to show pending free agents you're committed to winning and sign them long-term.
2) Improve the scouting department - they're good at picking 4th liners, but when was the last time the Panthers drafted prime scoring talent outside of the top 10?
3) Maintain coaching and management stability so the team can develop an identity and start winning some games.
totally agree- its not blind faith either, this can be easily reached


martin will have to open up the wallet tho for giguere, id love to see him here, but seriously speaking, could we really get giggy?

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01-26-2007, 12:29 PM
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There was a 3rd round draft pick somewhere in there?

Can somebody confirm that??
No, it was a 6th rounder.

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Old
01-26-2007, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthers Rock View Post
Heh, threw in a 6th rounder, not a 4th, the 6th will likely be useless.
the 6th rounder was used to pick winger Sergei Shirokov. He currently has 31 points in 38 games in the RSL. The Canucks will most likely bring him over next year to see what he can do.

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01-26-2007, 01:07 PM
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totally agree- its not blind faith either, this can be easily reached


martin will have to open up the wallet tho for giguere, id love to see him here, but seriously speaking, could we really get giggy?
Sure - the team will have an additional $4.5M that was used on Nieuwy and Roberts. I expect Roberts will retire, and Nieuwendyk already has. Since neither is/has really playing/played much this season, there's no loss. Meanwhile, less the $1M or so tied up in their minor-league replacements who've been serviceable, that's $3.5M plus whatever Belfour's making and whatever Gelinas is making (figuring he's also gone) plus any additional amount Cohen's willing to spend to dedicate to signing Giguere. I'm figuring $5.5M or so, tops. Can't see a team spending more than that on him, given age, career inconsistency, and salary cap management. Could be wrong, though. $5.5M is too much, but that's going to happen with top free agents anyway.

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01-26-2007, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by EnoughExcuses View Post
Sure - the team will have an additional $4.5M that was used on Nieuwy and Roberts. I expect Roberts will retire, and Nieuwendyk already has. Since neither is/has really playing/played much this season, there's no loss. Meanwhile, less the $1M or so tied up in their minor-league replacements who've been serviceable, that's $3.5M plus whatever Belfour's making and whatever Gelinas is making (figuring he's also gone) plus any additional amount Cohen's willing to spend to dedicate to signing Giguere. I'm figuring $5.5M or so, tops. Can't see a team spending more than that on him, given age, career inconsistency, and salary cap management. Could be wrong, though. $5.5M is too much, but that's going to happen with top free agents anyway.
You forgot Stumpel who is also unrestricted at the end of the season, another $1.5 million plus available. The Panthers will be rolling in dough at the end of the season even if they don't choose to raise the team payroll. Of course, by definition and this goes for every team in the NHL, every free agent you bring in off another NHL team's roster, who is in demand, you have to overpay for. Free Agency does not mean cheap as far as aguiring talent, an oxymoron sort of like Intelligence in the words Central Intelligence Agency in regards to Iraq.

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01-26-2007, 04:10 PM
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Forget Giguere, much too expensive. My limit for a goalie is $3 mil. Biron would be on my radar.

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