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Proposal: Zherdev

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Old
01-26-2007, 01:45 PM
  #1
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Proposal: Zherdev

First off, I know i will get flamed for this, go ahead. i think I feel the need to make a crazy proposal once a month.

Here it goes:

To EDM: Zherdev +2nd
To CLB: Lupul

I've always wanted to see Zherdev play with Hemsky. Lupul has had trouble fitting into our lineup, and I think we would get a player that would make re-signing Sykora moot. We probably can't afford him anyway.

The salaries are more or less a wash. Same with their stats.

I think Lupul is a great player, but I don't think he likes being the home town boy and he hasn't really fit in. This would give both teams a fresh start with the same type of player.

Also Columbus is ranked 27th in the league right now, so that 2nd rounder will probably be a mid-30's pick, in what is supposed to be a deep draft year. I threw that in because we can afford to wait, Zherdev has some personality issues, etc.

Lineup for rest of the season

Smyth-Horc-Sykora
Zherdev-Nedved-Hemsky
Torres-Stoll-Pisani
Thor-Resaoner - Winch

Next Season

Smyth-Horc-Pisani
Zherdev-Nedved-Hemsky
Torres-Stoll-Thor/Winch
Moreau-Resaoner-Thor/Winch/MAP/JFJ


Last edited by 21Gator*: 01-26-2007 at 02:04 PM.
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Old
01-26-2007, 02:05 PM
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I don't mind it. I don't want to trade Lupul but if we do it has to be for someone with similar potential aka not corvo LOL.

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01-26-2007, 02:08 PM
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OntOilFan
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Columbus would have to be incredibly stupid to do this. Make it a 1st and I think they'd listen.

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01-26-2007, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
Columbus would have to be incredibly stupid to do this. Make it a 1st and I think they'd listen.

Zherdev's numbers this year
41 7 13 20

Lupul can't even have a beer at a pub without being asked why he hasn't scored 30 yet.
Zherdev has problems with management and is struggling this year. Could put up red flags, maybe they don't want to have another contact dispute and think Lupul is safer.. who knows..

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Old
01-26-2007, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
Columbus would have to be incredibly stupid to do this. Make it a 1st and I think they'd listen.
I'm just going to assume you haven't seen Columbus or Zherdev play at all this season.

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Old
01-26-2007, 02:16 PM
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OntOilFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traktor View Post
Zherdev's numbers this year
41 7 13 20

Lupul can't even have a beer at a pub without being asked why he hasn't scored 30 yet.
Zherdev has problems with management and is struggling this year. Could put up red flags, maybe they don't want to have another contact dispute and think Lupul is safer.. who knows..
With Lupul's stunning regression this season, both players are only potential at this point and Zherdev is easily a class ahead in that department.

And those numbers are still, amazingly, better than Lupul's.

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Old
01-26-2007, 02:16 PM
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dubya
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Why? Their stats, ages, salaries, and pedigrees are comparable. I don't necessarily think it improves either team, but might fit under the 'players needing a change of scenery' type of deal.

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Old
01-26-2007, 02:17 PM
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OntOilFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral View Post
I'm just going to assume you haven't seen Columbus or Zherdev play at all this season.
have you watched Lupul?

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01-26-2007, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
have you watched Lupul?
Yep, and he's been better than Zherdev. At least he has 13 goals this year (compared to Zherdev's whopping 7).

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01-26-2007, 02:21 PM
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OntOilFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral View Post
Yep, and he's been better than Zherdev. At least he has 13 goals this year (compared to Zherdev's whopping 7).
I'm not sticking around for this argument. You poll 30 GMS and 30 of them will say Zherdev is the better talent.

He's younger, faster, and is 100 times more creative offensively than cement-skates Lupul.

Both players had a good 05-06 (Zherved got more points in less games on a much worse team), and both are struggling this year.

That said, any sane hockey person would take Zherdev over Lupul in a second.

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Old
01-26-2007, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
I'm not sticking around for this argument. You poll 30 GMS and 30 of them will say Zherdev is the better talent.

He's younger, faster, and is 100 times more creative offensively than cement-skates Lupul.

Both players had a good 05-06 (Zherved got more points in less games on a much worse team), and both are struggling this year.

That said, any sane hockey person would take Zherdev over Lupul in a second.
Why is it that anytime someone disagrees with you they aren't sane?

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Old
01-26-2007, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
have you watched Lupul?
I watched him score 9 and +9 in the playoffs last year. But at 23 he is nothing but potential?




Schremp is potential
Cogliano is potential
Lupul scored close to 30 at 22 years old. He is already proven. It's one thing to predict edmonton to lose every game but writing off 23 year olds is about as troll as you get.


Don't know if you live in a cave and missed Zherdev's contract dispute but he said he didn't care about the team and would play in russia if his demands were not met. Pretty much my way or the high way.. You need to take things things into consideration.

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Old
01-26-2007, 02:29 PM
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I don't think the point is who sucks more. Rather would the fit work out better?

Also, Zherdev is a year younger. And as to this season stats, I would say playing with Horc and Smyth is a better opportunity than playing with Federov and Christov.

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Old
01-26-2007, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traktor View Post
I watched him score 9 and +9 in the playoffs last year. But at 23 he is nothing but potential?




Schremp is potential
Cogliano is potential
Lupul scored close to 30 at 22 years old. He is already proven. It's one thing to predict edmonton to lose every game but writing off 23 year olds is about as troll as you get.
Zherdev did it at 21.

I'm not writing him off. This is an argument about Zherdev and Lupul. I'm arguing that Zherdev is the better talent.

Saying Lupul is "proven" speaks volumes about your hockey knowledge. He's proven nothing whatsoever. Neither of them have. I'd still rather have Zherdev based on raw talent. Both still have a LONG way to go.

BTW, you may want to wait until you're here longer than a month before you start branding people trolls.

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Old
01-26-2007, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
You poll 30 GMS and 30 of them will say Zherdev is the better talent.
I'll bet those same 30 GMs would also say that Zherdev is 10 times the headcase, too...which impacts his trade value as well.

While I agree that he might have the edge in talent, IMO it's not as chasm-like that the Oilers would have to throw a 1st round pick into the kitty to even get the attention of Columbus.

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Old
01-26-2007, 02:45 PM
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We think Lupul has consistency issues and lack of physicality, but Zherdev is actually worse.

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01-26-2007, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
Zherdev did it at 21.

I'm not writing him off. This is an argument about Zherdev and Lupul. I'm arguing that Zherdev is the better talent.

Without taking into consideration that Zherdev threatened to not report to camp and he would gladly play in Russia for the rest of his career unless he gets the money he wants. Some attitude from a 22 year old. So much for rfa's not having any pull.


Saying Lupul is "proven" speaks volumes about your hockey knowledge. He's proven nothing whatsoever.

He lead the ducks last year in the playoffs at his young age . I guess that must have been a fluke?
He was drafted 7th overall and scored 28 in his second season... I would say that is living up to the billing wouldn't you say? You can score 1000 goals in junior, that doesn't make you proven.. scoring 28 in your 2nd year does.




BTW, you may want to wait until you're here longer than a month before you start branding people trolls.

If it looks like a Pig, and oinks like a pig, its a pig. You predict us to lose every game, and then talk about how crappy a team we have. You may not be a troll but your a pretty bad fan. Don't take it personal. Some people enjoy being negative. If they have something or someone to be negative to they don't have to focus on the real problem

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01-26-2007, 02:48 PM
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No way the jackets would have to throw in the extra 2nd, I doubt very much they would do a Lupul for Zherdev straight up, they already have one floating defensive liability in Nash, why need another one in Lupul, who isn't even as good at the one thing he does...

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01-26-2007, 03:01 PM
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As soon as I saw that thread with Zherdev possibly being available I had a feeling I'd see the Lupul-Zherdev rumours. Zherdev has more potential (higher ceiling) no question in my mind but trading for him is a big gamble with his contract disputes and potential of returning to the RSL. I'd trade Lupul for Zherdev but as someone mentioned above, he has the same big issues that Lupul has (consistency and defensive awareness). It'd be a big gamble and Lupul is the safer choice but Zherdev has far more talent, just seems like he needs an appropriate situation to get it done

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Old
01-26-2007, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoll 16 View Post
As soon as I saw that thread with Zherdev possibly being available I had a feeling I'd see the Lupul-Zherdev rumours. Zherdev has more potential (higher ceiling) no question in my mind but trading for him is a big gamble with his contract disputes and potential of returning to the RSL. I'd trade Lupul for Zherdev but as someone mentioned above, he has the same big issues that Lupul has (consistency and defensive awareness). It'd be a big gamble and Lupul is the safer choice but Zherdev has far more talent, just seems like he needs an appropriate situation to get it done
This is why I thought they would throw in the 2nd. We don't have to take the risk, as I think we all agree Lupul is the safer pick, so we get some insurance.

I do think that Zherdev/Hemsky would be an i nteresting combo, even if it had to be on the PP at first.

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01-26-2007, 03:33 PM
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Zherdev I am not excited about at all anymore. He will continue to play the RSL card against GMs his whole NHL career in order to squeeze out more money.

And his numbers this year leave a lot to be desired. The head, the numbers, the RSL card. He just isn't worth it. Let them dump him on someone else.

And I prefer to wait on Lupul. I still think he's going to be great. Someone just needs to sit him down over the summer and show him the videotape of all his blue line giveaways this year so he can start to learn on how to avoid them next season. When Lupul gets into the offensive zone, he is great! He just has issues gaining the zone.

He has the desire to be a better player, I honestly just don't think he knows what he is doing wrong, and the fishbowl of his hometown is making it worse. When he starts making smarter moves at the blue line (dump and chase when guys are tight, rush it when you have enough space to try moves). After he starts to learn that and starts gaining the zone, his numbers will go up.


Last edited by s7ark: 01-26-2007 at 03:39 PM.
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01-26-2007, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
With Lupul's stunning regression this season, both players are only potential at this point and Zherdev is easily a class ahead in that department.

Zherdev has more talent when it comes to rushing the puck and stick handling, no question. Lupul has a far better shot, no question.

And those numbers are still, amazingly, better than Lupul's.

I'm not sticking around for this argument. You poll 30 GMS and 30 of them will say Zherdev is the better talent.

I bet you those same GM's would say that Lupul is a safer bet and would take them on their team over Lupul, especially since Z has shown his true colors at negotiation time, I wonder if the new contract has anything the bad season.

He's younger, faster, and is 100 times more creative offensively than cement-skates Lupul.

Both players had a good 05-06 (Zherved got more points in less games on a much worse team), and both are struggling this year.

That said, any sane hockey person would take Zherdev over Lupul in a second.

Zherdev did it at 21.

He also played with Nash, Lupul played with Marchant, hmmm

I'm not writing him off. This is an argument about Zherdev and Lupul. I'm arguing that Zherdev is the better talent.

And Lupul is the better choice. In 2-3 years you will look back and see Lupul a much superior player in todays NHL.

Saying Lupul is "proven" speaks volumes about your hockey knowledge. He's proven nothing whatsoever. Neither of them have. I'd still rather have Zherdev based on raw talent. Both still have a LONG way to go.

Lupul has PROVEN he can perform in the playoffs. He has PROVEN he can score on the PP, he has PROVEN he can play physical when needed, he has PROVEN he can score with line mates like Marchant and Fedoruk. Lupul has proven a lot.

Zherdev has proven he can score when he is playing with Nash or Federov or Vyborny. Im not debating weather or not Zherdev has talent, but I am arguing Lupul is more of a "proven" player then Zherdev is.


BTW, you may want to wait until you're here longer than a month before you start branding people trolls.

Some people just call things as they see them, and if I didn't know any better I would have thought the same.

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Old
01-26-2007, 07:52 PM
  #23
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You guys complain about LUPUL'S defensive play, and you want to trade him for Zherdev?

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Old
01-26-2007, 09:02 PM
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While the value might not be far off Columbus wouldnt make that trade because they are in need of puck possesion/playmakers up front and already have too many one shot scorers but lack playmakers to get them the puck. Its the same problem Edmonton has and while Z has struggled this year he fits the bil of a fast skating crafty winger that columbus needs to step up and play like he can. I think he'd look good on the oilers and would give Edmonton another skill player to take the heat off of Hemsky though.

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01-26-2007, 09:05 PM
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I'd love to see Nik on Edmonton ice,

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