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Kloucek a Thrasher

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Old
12-02-2003, 12:43 PM
  #1
AvsGuy
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Kloucek a Thrasher

Kloucek and Simon to Atlanta for Gamanche and Safronov...

http://www.nhl.com/onthefly/news/2003/12/184168.html

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12-02-2003, 12:50 PM
  #2
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So, we get rid of an injury prone d-man and a career AHL'er for....I'm not as well versed on these guys as many of you may be...

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12-02-2003, 01:23 PM
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I'm not sure, thought these two had decent upside for the Thrash...

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12-02-2003, 01:25 PM
  #4
Joe T Choker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AvsGuy
Kloucek and Simon to Atlanta for Gamanche and Safronov...

http://www.nhl.com/onthefly/news/2003/12/184168.html
just as long as Gamache and Safronov aren't as injury prone as Kloucek, I'm happy with this trade...paper knees doesn't even begin to describe Kloucek's health...I've got a feeling if he doesn't make it with the Thrash, he's gonna retire.

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12-02-2003, 01:31 PM
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Hartley, is good with youngsters. He has the ability to turn Kloucek around. Lets face it, the whole time he was here, he was hurt, and with Schnabel playing so well at the start of the season.......we didn't need him anymore. I guess the Neckar signing was in preparation for this????

I guess we will have to make up new proposals for goal-scorer now.

Arkhipov and Allison just wont cut it

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12-02-2003, 02:50 PM
  #6
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I'm undecided on this one...

I hate that we gave up on Kloucek without really giving him a chance. Extremely physical defenseman aren't easy to come by.

However, his injuries are of concern. His play has't been all that great (though he didn't get much chance to showcase it).

Will we regret trading him without giving him a chance?

Or will we look back and say "we traded him just at the right time... when he atleast had some trade value."

I don't know much about Safronov. He was drafted in first round by Phoenix. So of course, there will be reports out there that say he has "potential."

I don't much about Gamanche either. He abosutely lit up the QMJHL. I know he holds some scoring records in that league. But he's small and soft. A question mark at this point.

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12-02-2003, 03:47 PM
  #7
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Gamache is loaded with offensive ability, and he is a big-game player. If he gets a decent chance on a scoring line, he will be a very good NHL producer. It may not be right away, but he will be a good scorer in the NHL some time.

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Old
12-02-2003, 04:01 PM
  #8
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so he's a Shish clone? I wouldn't mind him on the team if he can put the puck in the net and plays decent defense.

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Old
12-02-2003, 04:30 PM
  #9
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Safronov, 22 (2/26/81), has appeared in 35 NHL games over the past three seasons with Atlanta and the Phoenix Coyotes, posting two goals and two assists and 16 penalty minutes. A first-round pick of the Coyotes in 1999 (19th overall), the 6-2, 215-pound native of Leningrad, Russia has notched five points (1g-4a) in 21 games with Chicago (AHL) this season.

Gamache, 22 (1/3/81), finished second on the Chicago Wolves and fifth in the American Hockey League with 77 points (35g-42a) in 76 games last season. The 5-9, 180-pound Thetford Mines, Quebec native led the Wolves and tied for third in the AHL in goals, and tied for second in the AHL with a team-high 16 power-play goals.

The third-year pro has recorded one assist in two games with Atlanta this season, and 11 points (5g-6a) in 16 games with the Wolves. He was named to the East Coast Hockey League All-Rookie Team and was named Co-MVP of the 2002 ECHL Playoffs after leading Greenville to the Kelly Cup with 24 points (17g-9a) in 17 playoff games. As a junior, Gamache was named a 2000-01 CHL First Team All-Star, a member of the 2001 Memorial Cup All-Star Team, the 2001 Quebec Major Junior League Most Valuable Player and the QMJHL playoff MVP after recording 184 points (74g-110a) in 72 regular-season games and 57 points (22g-35a) in 21 playoff tilts.

I liked Gamache ever since he came out of the Val-d'Or, but he didn't go in the draft until the 9th round if my memory stands right. Safronov will be given a good opportunity to develop with not much of a rush in the pros, but like was said earlier, it's too early to see what's to happen with Kloucek, personally I think we gave up too early on the kid...

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Old
12-02-2003, 05:01 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsFan77
personally I think we gave up too early on the kid...
Bingo

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Old
12-02-2003, 05:21 PM
  #11
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As a Thrasher fan, I'm scratching my head on this trade.

Atlanta gives up on two prospects that I think have shown little potential (so far) on the NHL level.

Gamache has loads of "potential" but on the NHL level has seemed too small and slow to contribute. That's been said on every level for the kid and he's defied the odds. He's playing well in the AHL now. Gamache may have potential, but I doubt it--at least at the NHL level.

Safronov has been a disappointment here (and I guess Phoenix too). He's a bit too timid and soft for Hartley. Positionally OK but just tossed around too much. Down low, large wingers just toss him aside much like a flea. Offensively he's seemed a out of step with the others. I think the kid has potential but has really not showed much on NHL ice and with the other defensemen prospects in the pipeline, Safronov became expendable.

Simon was already here and let go in free agency. I wasn't too upset then so I'm not too excited now. He's Ok and a solid "energy guy" as a 4th line centerman. I think he can step right in tomorrow.

Kloucek is seemingly fragile, but big and aggressive when healthy. He's an NHLer for sure and fits the Hartley mold. I'm just not sure he can be healthy over any extended periods.

So, I boil it down to this: Atlanta gives up two guys that they (and I) believe have little potential in the NHL; for an energy 4th line center they used to have and a potential NHL #3-4 defenseman who can't seem to stay healthy.

Final analysis: Short term wash. Long term depends upon Kloucek's health. It could turn out that the Thrashers get two NHLers and give up two prospects that cannot make the league.

We'll revisit this later this year.

DJ

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Old
12-02-2003, 05:42 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
Bingo
I think this move was pretty much forced on Poile...10 roster spots at D; someone had to move. Safronov is a former 1st rounder. Klooch probably would have had to be sent to the Ads and lost to waivers.

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Old
12-02-2003, 05:48 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunwoody_joe
As a Thrasher fan, I'm scratching my head on this trade.

Atlanta gives up on two prospects that I think have shown little potential (so far) on the NHL level.

Gamache has loads of "potential" but on the NHL level has seemed too small and slow to contribute. That's been said on every level for the kid and he's defied the odds. He's playing well in the AHL now. Gamache may have potential, but I doubt it--at least at the NHL level.

Safronov has been a disappointment here (and I guess Phoenix too). He's a bit too timid and soft for Hartley. Positionally OK but just tossed around too much. Down low, large wingers just toss him aside much like a flea. Offensively he's seemed a out of step with the others. I think the kid has potential but has really not showed much on NHL ice and with the other defensemen prospects in the pipeline, Safronov became expendable.

Simon was already here and let go in free agency. I wasn't too upset then so I'm not too excited now. He's Ok and a solid "energy guy" as a 4th line centerman. I think he can step right in tomorrow.

Kloucek is seemingly fragile, but big and aggressive when healthy. He's an NHLer for sure and fits the Hartley mold. I'm just not sure he can be healthy over any extended periods.

So, I boil it down to this: Atlanta gives up two guys that they (and I) believe have little potential in the NHL; for an energy 4th line center they used to have and a potential NHL #3-4 defenseman who can't seem to stay healthy.

Final analysis: Short term wash. Long term depends upon Kloucek's health. It could turn out that the Thrashers get two NHLers and give up two prospects that cannot make the league.

We'll revisit this later this year.

DJ

For the Preds, this is simply a depth move for this season. Kloucek wasn't reliabe depth, and Gamache adds depth at center, which we are weak on this year. This should be a sign that Poile is aiming for the playoffs.
Losing Kloucek shouldn't be that big of a deal to Predators fans. By the time play resumes after the lockout, his value will be on the downside, especially with the depth at D in our system.
I like this move for this year.

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Old
12-02-2003, 06:31 PM
  #14
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I don't mind this trade. I'm not a big fan of either Gamache or Safronov but we gave up little value to get them. Kloucek is a big, tough, agile (for his size) heavy hitter. Unfortunately, for him to be a legit NHLer, he's likely going to have to stop hitting and thus make himself a Cale Hulse.

Simon is of no value to us. He's a career minor leaguer if he stays with the Preds so getting rid of him is no biggie. I wish we hadn't given up on Kloucek so soon, but I just don't think this guy is ever going to be consistently healthy enough to be worth it.

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Old
12-02-2003, 06:37 PM
  #15
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I didn't even know Simon was in our system.

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Old
12-02-2003, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman
I didn't even know Simon was in our system.
Yeah, he is a career AHLer who would likely have never played a shift in Nashville unless we had MAJOR injuries. He's played sparingly a couple of seasons ago for Atlanta and with the loss of Snyder, he might fall back into a similar role.

I think management thinks Schnabel can adequately replace Kloucek and I think their right. He isn't injury prone, and he's mean.

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12-02-2003, 06:53 PM
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Here is some thoughts about Safronov from tsn.ca

Preseason projected role: Safronov could earn a roster spot with the Thrashers in 2003-04 and appears to have a bright future as an all-around defender.

Assets: Plays a tough game and takes full advantage of his size and demeanor. Moves the puck well and can make an excellent first pass out of the defensive zone. Is fairly disciplined.

Flaws: Has limited offensive presence, making him better suited to a support role when not defending his own zone. Should never be confused with a power-play quarterback.

Career potential: No. 1 or 2 defenseman.


http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/player_b...25&hubName=ATL

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Old
12-02-2003, 06:55 PM
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Here are similar thoughts on Gamache...

Preseason projected role: Gamache should spend another season with the AHL's Chicago Wolves in 2003-04, and continue a slow process towards an eventual NHL career as a scoring forward.

Assets: Has tremendous creativity and offensive prowess. Has the hands of a natural goal-scorer. Can play any forward position.

Flaws: Needs to continue to work on his play without the puck. Must get physically stronger if he desires a career in the NHL.

Career potential: Second-line forward.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/player_b...83&hubName=ATL

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12-02-2003, 06:56 PM
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milwaukee's going to have some line, if they throw gamache and shishkanov together. maybe upshall for some grit on the right wing.

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12-02-2003, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
milwaukee's going to have some line, if they throw gamache and shishkanov together. maybe upshall for some grit on the right wing.

Depending on how soon Gamache reports, he might be playing in Milwaukee against his former teammates in Chicago tomorrow night.

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12-03-2003, 03:25 AM
  #21
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Here's one thing hockeysfuture.com had to say about Gamache:

"Hes small, listed at 510, 180 pounds, but unlike some other small NHL players, Gamache probably lacks the speed to compensate for his size."

I don't know how much bank I'd put in that site, really. For some bizarre reason I have a good feeling about this kid.

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Old
12-03-2003, 03:25 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok
I'm undecided on this one...

I hate that we gave up on Kloucek without really giving him a chance. Extremely physical defenseman aren't easy to come by.

However, his injuries are of concern. His play has't been all that great (though he didn't get much chance to showcase it).

Will we regret trading him without giving him a chance?

Or will we look back and say "we traded him just at the right time... when he atleast had some trade value."

I don't know much about Safronov. He was drafted in first round by Phoenix. So of course, there will be reports out there that say he has "potential."

I don't much about Gamanche either. He abosutely lit up the QMJHL. I know he holds some scoring records in that league. But he's small and soft. A question mark at this point.
Gamache is not soft. He may need to get stronger to handle NHL traffic but he is not afraid. When he played in the ECHL two years ago he was being high sticked in the head 3-4 times a game and he just kept going. He scored something like 17 goals in his first 16 ECHL games.
I can't remember him missing any games due to injury.

Here is an example of what is wrong with the NHL. A gifted offensive player is not even given a chance and a nothing like Tootoo is glorified.

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12-03-2003, 03:42 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops II
Gamache is not soft. He may need to get stronger to handle NHL traffic but he is not afraid. When he played in the ECHL two years ago he was being high sticked in the head 3-4 times a game and he just kept going. He scored something like 17 goals in his first 16 ECHL games.
I can't remember him missing any games due to injury.

Here is an example of what is wrong with the NHL. A gifted offensive player is not even given a chance and a nothing like Tootoo is glorified.
I wouldn't call Tootoo a "nothing", per se. However, I agree in that fact that he should maybe go down to Milwaukee some to work on his offensive ability. Right now he is getting little ice time but does what he needs to do...that being to get under the other team's skin, draw penalties, and for checking. I think he will develop more offensively and defensively later on. Def. a good prospect.

Anyway, Tootoo is not the issue at hand. I really hope you're right about Gamache. I think I remember reading somewhere that in the QMJHL's playoffs (I think that was the league) that he beat Mario Lemiux's record for points.


Last edited by crossxcheck: 12-03-2003 at 06:30 AM.
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12-03-2003, 06:23 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops II
Gamache is not soft. He may need to get stronger to handle NHL traffic but he is not afraid. When he played in the ECHL two years ago he was being high sticked in the head 3-4 times a game and he just kept going. He scored something like 17 goals in his first 16 ECHL games.
I can't remember him missing any games due to injury.

Here is an example of what is wrong with the NHL. A gifted offensive player is not even given a chance and a nothing like Tootoo is glorified.

Oh jeez, here's another whiner. Let me grab you a tissue Cyclops. Maybe a shot of Tennessee Whiskey will ease the pain that Tootoo has caused you. Tootoo has one thing that Gamache may never have, a legitimate spot on an NHL roster of a respectable team. If Tootoo is such a nothing, do us all a favor and give RLR you resume, and tell them you'd like to be a scout. Give them your thoughts on Tootoo. They'd be sure to hire you. Nothing like comic relief and someone to look down on.

Just because you have a mancrush on Gamache doesn't mean you have to take it out on Tootoo.

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12-03-2003, 06:29 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyClause
Just because you have a mancrush on Gamache doesn't mean you have to take it out on Tootoo.


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