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Old
01-27-2007, 02:34 AM
  #26
guymez
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Originally Posted by hemmingway View Post
And I'm sure Lowe is throwing away good trades left and right.

At the end of the day - regardless of the players they trade for this season - this team is not as good a Anaheim. Or San Jose. Or Calgary. Or Buffalo.

Lowe knows this. We should too.

It's time to take stock of not what we don't have. It's time to look at what we have.

Players like Stoll, Torres, Hemsky, Lupul, Smid, Greene, and Roy. This is a team built of rookies - one that consists of players that won't be rookies in 2009-2010.

Which is what Lowe should be planning for.
So the following season after making it to the cup finals and Lowe is planning for 4 years later? If it takes Lowe that long in this new enviroment provided by the new CBA then he should be fired.
While I agree with the obvious statement that this team isn't good enough I don't think Lowe has the horses in the stable to make this team a cup winner in the next copule of years.
I don't believe this team doesn't have enough high end young talent, especially on defence. They don't yet have that player you can build a team around and there looks to be a big void in net once Roloson is in his final year.
Lowe has much work to do IMO.

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01-27-2007, 02:45 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by guymez View Post
So the following season after making it to the cup finals and Lowe is planning for 4 years later? If it takes Lowe that long in this new enviroment provided by the new CBA then he should be fired.
While I agree with the obvious statement that this team isn't good enough I don't think Lowe has the horses in the stable to make this team a cup winner in the next copule of years.
I don't believe this team doesn't have enough high end young talent, especially on defence. They don't yet have that player you can build a team around and there looks to be a big void in net once Roloson is in his final year.
Lowe has much work to do IMO.
Pronger left, and was replaced with a 22 year old, a 20 year old, two 17 year olds, and hopefully two 16 year olds.

Fortunately for Kevin Lowe, only people who put millions on the line decide on his fate. They want a cup winner, as soon as possible.

As I'm sure you do.

This team is not good enough to win now. I'd like to see an arguement against that.

For the next two seasons, the Oil aren't contenders.

With a core of Hemsky, Stoll, Torres, Smid, Lupul, and Greene - they can be within a few years. Trading away members of that list is likely - but Lowe has to remember one thing. He needs to win it all. Nothing less will do.

Now - it's about finding the real path to win. This is not easy,as trading a young player for a stopgap would be. This is about preparing to win, by thinking more than seven games out.

Given the percentage of games required to make 97 points (likely 8th in the conference) - it's time to accept that this season is likely over. It's time to prepare for winning in the future, following the path of Anaheim and Carolina.

That path begins now.

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01-27-2007, 03:29 AM
  #28
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With each passing bad performance, I am more and more tempted to just scrap the season.

My suggestion if things don't get better soon? Trade away players like Tjarnqvist, Bergeron, Sykora, Horcoff Winchester, Petersen, Markkanen. Trade Smith because his play is diminishing and because the apparant lack of leadership on the team right now has to fall partly on his shoulders. Trade Smyth because, as much as I love him, he is simply not worth the over $5 million he is asking for. Trade all these players, even if its for a 5th round pick because it will free up salary. There's only a small group of players I would consider untouchable and they would include Stoll and Smid.

Use all of the remaining money to sign UFAs this summer and use the lessons of the last couple of years to build a better roster.
- Sign Scott Hartnell and I don't think you'll see any real drop off in performance from Smyth at that position.
- Use the money Smyth was asking for and go after a #1 center or a real offensive threat, like Paul Kariya or Daniel Briere. Someone that can really change the course of a game.
- Sign the puck moving #1 defenceman the team needs.
- Sign a veteran shut-down guy like Eric Brewer, Scott Hannan or Greg de Vries.
- Try and sign some quality guys that might fly under the radar or who may have had sub-par seasons. Guys like:
Kyle Calder - had a horrible season, but still a decent offensive player.
Scott Walker - how I'd love to have him on the team right now. Tough, skilled and actually gives a damn. Very underrated.
Bryan Smolinski - getting older, but also underrated. Has helped carry the offensive load on a crappy Chicago team.
Todd White - it would be nice to see his speed killing another team for a change.
Mike York - for a decent price, I'd welcome him back.
Janne Niinimaa - call me sentimental, but I'd sign him for under $1 mil and give him a third pairing spot.
Curtis Sanford - Can we please sign him? Exactly what we need. A guy who's good enough to play half a season and play well.

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01-27-2007, 04:41 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by faneuil View Post
I do think some of the problems are coaching related.
I'd also include Peeters in some of those coaching issues, but anyway.

It's not that either are bad... it's just that I feel they've lost this group. Just like players, coaches need to change teams sometimes and get a fresh perspective and outlook.

I'm in no way saying that if a coaching change was made that the problems would disappear, but it's also, in my mind, an issue right now with this club.
Yes they are coaching related. Put Smyth on another team, or Hemsky and sykora for that matter and they would be far greater threats. Our coaching staff stifles these guys. I am sure the forwards are tired before they get the puck out of our end but there are brief stints where we do move the puck and still nothing happens. I think we also need to stand our d up and pinch on their blue line occasionally.....watch every dman we call up he does it for about three games then gets into huddy's mold. Lets get some actual coaches in here and go from there. We have some of the right players, a true third line center might be nice though....we had peca but it was a good idea to have him so we let him go.

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01-27-2007, 05:33 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
The Oil still have a chance. The way they've been playing the last three months, they don't have a chance in h***, but if things can get shaken-up.. they have but a small chance.

If they become sellers, I'd like to see these players go.

Smith> ufa at seasons end and just cant seem to turn things around except for him blocking shots pretty well.

Tjarnqvist > Softer than the pilsbury dough boy!

Horcoff> He Horcoffs the puck up too much.. his effort is there, but nothin' else.

Petersen> I just flat out despise him.. no reason really.. same kinda hate I once had towards Pittis. He's taking up a roster spot that I'd rather see a rookie have.

Roloson> I like him.. sorta, but.. for the contract he has and his age, its just not worth it.

Sykora> Played/plays decent, but.. if its a fire sale, he's gotta go.

Nedved> Not a bad move for 600k, but what the h***, its a fire sale.

Lupul> I'm undecided still.. he just looks lost out their.. and has no chemestry with anybody on the team.

With these players leaving town, I'm not saying lets exchange all of 'em for picks.. I think we can actually get a couple major deals that can benefit the Oil for at least next season. Lets also offer that contract to Smyth and prepare for next season.. not taking away the possibilty of sqeaking into the playoffs this season, but hey, it really cant hurt more than it already does.

Players I would never consider trading:

Stoll> One of the few bright spots left on the team.

Hemsky> Young and full of talant, talant we have yet to see even.

Smyth> Unless he's unwilling to re-sign.. and Lowe knows beforehand, I'd trade him for a package deal that brings back a #1 d'man.

There's actually less players I'd be willing to keep rather than trade at the moment.

Moreau> He's the type of player the Oil really lack, since he's been out.. the Oil have started to struggle. Another must keep Oiler.. one amongst the few, pretty much a last Mohican.
Bergeron and Torres are tradeable IMO also.

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Old
01-27-2007, 05:42 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
The Oil still have a chance. The way they've been playing the last three months, they don't have a chance in h***, but if things can get shaken-up.. they have but a small chance.

If they become sellers, I'd like to see these players go.

Smith> ufa at seasons end and just cant seem to turn things around except for him blocking shots pretty well.
.....
No he isn't. If pretty sure he still has 1 more year left on his contract.

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01-27-2007, 06:45 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by faneuil View Post
I do think some of the problems are coaching related.
I'd also include Peeters in some of those coaching issues, but anyway.

It's not that either are bad... it's just that I feel they've lost this group. Just like players, coaches need to change teams sometimes and get a fresh perspective and outlook.

I'm in no way saying that if a coaching change was made that the problems would disappear, but it's also, in my mind, an issue right now with this club.
The thing is, some coaching decisions are a product of what MacT has to work with. He doesn't have a decent defenseman who can make a pass out of his zone, so he instructs them to shoot the puck off the boards. But also, after watching the SJ games last night, you can see that the forwards are not helping the d-men. They are way too far up ice to receive a pass.

The fact remains that MacT has 4 rookies on defense (Smid, Greene, Hedja, Roy) and a relatively young defenseman in MAB you just can't win like that. I think the issue is more procurement of players and that is Lowe's job.


Last edited by Yanner39: 01-27-2007 at 08:44 AM.
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01-27-2007, 07:15 AM
  #33
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Losing both Staios and Tjarnqvist, in addition to Moreau's injury, really hurt the team too IMO.

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01-27-2007, 08:43 AM
  #34
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Losing both Staios and Tjarnqvist, in addition to Moreau's injury, really hurt the team too IMO.
Big time. Moreau especially I think.

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01-27-2007, 11:21 AM
  #35
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I've been thinking about this ****in team all morning. Last year, almost a year to the day actually, Our defensive corp looked like Ulanov, Beregeron, Smith, Cross, Pronger, Staois, Semenov (was shipped earlier), Greene (I believe he came later though). Now I'm not too sure but unless it's a Kipper like goalie one player doesn't make a team.


Losing Cross,Pronger and Ulanov out of the line-up shouldn't make us that much worse. Yes Pronger could move the puck better then 90% of the D-men in the world, but he still only played 30 minutes a game. The other half of the game we had some pretty sorry looking plugs out there. I still don't believe a Puck handling D-man will right whats wrong with this ship. It'll help some, but it isn't the main problem. I think the problem lies with the coaches. When MacT bag skated these guys in Nov, or late Oct, they played with some emotion. The staff is too player friendly. We need to get someone who'll crack the whip on these guys. Call them out in public.


We need a coach that will crack the whip on these guys. Do you think that Lindy Ruff would put up with the effort these guys have given for the past 2 months? What about Darrell Sutter? He would have publically horse whipped about half the players on this team. They show up night after night and play with no emotion. The only emotion they showed last night was in the third with 6 minutes left. Then when they started to move their feet we were able to keep SJ hemmed in their end. Where was the emotion for the rest of the game? Why aren't the coaches motivating these guys to play a full 60 minutes? Why do they need motivating?


When you pay a guy like Sykora over 2 million a year and he floats like he has been for 2 months, release him. If Torres doesn't want to forecheck anymore trade him. Show these guys you mean business. The worst part is they stick up for these guys in public. **** that pisses me off. For 2 million a year I'd be willing to die for the team. These guys need to be reminded just how lucky they are. If he coaches continually lose the players concentration they should be replaced. But I don't believe that getting a puck moving D-man is going to turn this team around. It'll help but it isn't what's wrong here.

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01-27-2007, 11:23 AM
  #36
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The thing is, some coaching decisions are a product of what MacT has to work with.
Agreed.

Only in the movies do you make champions out of a bunch of losers.

However, some coaches are better with rookies than others. Some respond better to prima donna players... I'm just thinking this group doesn't have the right chemisty with MacT.

And while I only really mentioned MacT, I'm thinking coaching top to bottom.

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01-27-2007, 11:34 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by faneuil View Post
Agreed.

Only in the movies do you make champions out of a bunch of losers.

However, some coaches are better with rookies than others. Some respond better to prima donna players... I'm just thinking this group doesn't have the right chemisty with MacT.

And while I only really mentioned MacT, I'm thinking coaching top to bottom.
However, one thing I agree with you when you say problems that are coaching related is that MacT seems to have difficulty making in-game adjustments. The way the Oilers play in period 1 is the same in period 2 and period 3. This is not good if the Oilers stunk in period 1.

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01-27-2007, 01:11 PM
  #38
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No he isn't. If pretty sure he still has 1 more year left on his contract.
^So you're right, I just checked into it.. Still wouldn't change my decision. Perhaps because he's signed under 2m next season might mean a little better of a return.

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01-27-2007, 01:37 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by guymez View Post
So you are defining Lupul as a player from his play in half a season?
I have watched him enough to know that he has lost his game with the Oilers this year. Funny...so have a lot of other players on this team. Lowe has to be accountable for that. He is the one that determined the makeup of this team in October and what exactly have we got...a team that isn't gritty...can't score...can't move the puck up ice and can't play defence.
What a sad state of affairs.
BINGO!!! That comment rings so true for me. People keep crediting all the Oilers woes to poor D. Yes, that is part of the problem, but when the forwards have possession of the puck in the offensive zone and continually turn it over and cough it up, continually fail to cash thier chances in, you can't blame that on the damn D. I saw one play that really pissed me off last night that was a great example of the disintegration of the Oilers play. Raffi Torres carries the puck into the zone... the guy has an opportunity to take it to the net and he does a gay little button hook so he's FACING the boards at the opposition blue line and tries a pass that is to no one.

How many Oilers have lost thier games this year? Lupul, Bergeron, Smith, Horcoff, Torres, Pisani, Hemsky, Sykora, Tjarnqvist.

They've had spurts where they look like they can still play, some longer than others, but my god they've all looked awful too!

The Oilers are successful when they are physical, aggressive and take some chances. There is something majorly wrong with this hockey club this year. I for the first time don't believe that they will pull it together and make the playoffs. If they would have lost a close one to the Sharks, maybe. But they got WORKED for 60 minutes in thier own arena in a game after a break that they HAD to have.

As much as I like Mac T, there has to be a complete overhaul in the Oilers coaching staff. Thier systems aren't working! The defensive scheme is rediculous... all the Oilers do is chase the ****ing puck like its Atom out there or something... and when they do get possession, they just give it right back by ringing it around the boards (and not just the defence either people, I've seen forwards go into the corner, and ring it back up to THIER position... sorry to tell ya fella, no one's there for a chip, cause YOU aren't there! ). The powerplay has become completely laughable, and more often than not turns the game in the oppositions favor because of the complete ineptitude.

MacT is a very good coach. I think his assistants are the weak link and that MacT has lost this team. Since MacT would never agree to his asst's being fired, they all have to go. I know what he did for us and his brilliant job coaching in the playoffs, but that was then, and this is now. We have to let go. Pat Burns is willing and by all counts able. Make a call. If anyone can get Lupul, Hemsky et all rolling its Pat.

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01-27-2007, 02:03 PM
  #40
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BINGO!!! That comment rings so true for me. People keep crediting all the Oilers woes to poor D. Yes, that is part of the problem, but when the forwards have possession of the puck in the offensive zone and continually turn it over and cough it up, continually fail to cash thier chances in, you can't blame that on the damn D. I saw one play that really pissed me off last night that was a great example of the disintegration of the Oilers play. Raffi Torres carries the puck into the zone... the guy has an opportunity to take it to the net and he does a gay little button hook so he's FACING the boards at the opposition blue line and tries a pass that is to no one.

How many Oilers have lost thier games this year? Lupul, Bergeron, Smith, Horcoff, Torres, Pisani, Hemsky, Sykora, Tjarnqvist.

They've had spurts where they look like they can still play, some longer than others, but my god they've all looked awful too!

The Oilers are successful when they are physical, aggressive and take some chances. There is something majorly wrong with this hockey club this year. I for the first time don't believe that they will pull it together and make the playoffs. If they would have lost a close one to the Sharks, maybe. But they got WORKED for 60 minutes in thier own arena in a game after a break that they HAD to have.

As much as I like Mac T, there has to be a complete overhaul in the Oilers coaching staff. Thier systems aren't working! The defensive scheme is rediculous... all the Oilers do is chase the ****ing puck like its Atom out there or something... and when they do get possession, they just give it right back by ringing it around the boards (and not just the defence either people, I've seen forwards go into the corner, and ring it back up to THIER position... sorry to tell ya fella, no one's there for a chip, cause YOU aren't there! ). The powerplay has become completely laughable, and more often than not turns the game in the oppositions favor because of the complete ineptitude.

MacT is a very good coach. I think his assistants are the weak link and that MacT has lost this team. Since MacT would never agree to his asst's being fired, they all have to go. I know what he did for us and his brilliant job coaching in the playoffs, but that was then, and this is now. We have to let go. Pat Burns is willing and by all counts able. Make a call. If anyone can get Lupul, Hemsky et all rolling its Pat.
^I agree with you. What happened to the Physicallity(not sure if thats a word) of the Oilers play this season? Has the coaching staff told 'em to lay off the hits in fear of penalties? I only have speculation as answers because, I don't think anybody can figure what is wrong with the Oilers. They play with no emotion, effort, and lack chemistry on every line combo. Oilers win games with their effort and being physical, playing with an up tempo game. Instead, they play scared and appear to be intimidated by every team out there. The Oil just a few years back lacked the talant in almost every position, but I enjoyed watching them because they were not intimidated by any team, played their heart out and they all bled Oil.. who bleeds Oil now, Stoll perhaps, Smyth and Moreau.. This team needs a wake-up call.. if that means a fire sale, so be it. We as fans deserve at least entertainment for our buck. What we've witnessed as of the last three months is crap. I cant stand effortless games. We have too many players that like to just coast around waiting for something to happen rather than make something happen.

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01-27-2007, 03:23 PM
  #41
guymez
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Originally Posted by jet228 View Post
BINGO!!! That comment rings so true for me. People keep crediting all the Oilers woes to poor D. Yes, that is part of the problem, but when the forwards have possession of the puck in the offensive zone and continually turn it over and cough it up, continually fail to cash thier chances in, you can't blame that on the damn D. I saw one play that really pissed me off last night that was a great example of the disintegration of the Oilers play. Raffi Torres carries the puck into the zone... the guy has an opportunity to take it to the net and he does a gay little button hook so he's FACING the boards at the opposition blue line and tries a pass that is to no one.

How many Oilers have lost thier games this year? Lupul, Bergeron, Smith, Horcoff, Torres, Pisani, Hemsky, Sykora, Tjarnqvist.

They've had spurts where they look like they can still play, some longer than others, but my god they've all looked awful too!

The Oilers are successful when they are physical, aggressive and take some chances. There is something majorly wrong with this hockey club this year. I for the first time don't believe that they will pull it together and make the playoffs. If they would have lost a close one to the Sharks, maybe. But they got WORKED for 60 minutes in thier own arena in a game after a break that they HAD to have. As much as I like Mac T, there has to be a complete overhaul in the Oilers coaching staff. Thier systems aren't working! The defensive scheme is rediculous... all the Oilers do is chase the ****ing puck like its Atom out there or something... and when they do get possession, they just give it right back by ringing it around the boards (and not just the defence either people, I've seen forwards go into the corner, and ring it back up to THIER position... sorry to tell ya fella, no one's there for a chip, cause YOU aren't there! ). The powerplay has become completely laughable, and more often than not turns the game in the oppositions favor because of the complete ineptitude.

MacT is a very good coach. I think his assistants are the weak link and that MacT has lost this team. Since MacT would never agree to his asst's being fired, they all have to go. I know what he did for us and his brilliant job coaching in the playoffs, but that was then, and this is now. We have to let go. Pat Burns is willing and by all counts able. Make a call. If anyone can get Lupul, Hemsky et all rolling its Pat.
I don't think coaching is the problem. I think the problem, or at least a big part of the problem, is the fact that this team doesn't know what kind of a team it is. This looks like an identity issue to me and I think Lowe is more responsible for that than anyone.
The team has no chemistry...no cohesion. Some players on this team either don't know how to execute what is being asked of them or are incapable of it. Other players end up trying to do too much and consequently end up doing a poor job overall. (see Jason Smith) MacT can only work with what Lowe has given him and so far this season MacT is back to coaching with one hand tied behind his back. I have immense respect for Lowe and now he needs to commit to and execute a game plan.
If he goes in the direction I think he is going to go, I sense that most fans aren't going to like the short term results.


Last edited by guymez: 01-27-2007 at 04:00 PM.
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01-27-2007, 03:51 PM
  #42
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Bergeron and Torres are tradeable IMO also.
^ I didn't mention they were not, I mentioned those were the players I'd like to see go.

Bergeron with more of a limited role, is well worth his keep.

Torres is a UFA at the end of the season and he's struggling. Which all in all, should equal to a decent contract on the lower scale of what he would have gotten if he repeated last seasons accomplishments.

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01-27-2007, 03:53 PM
  #43
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Torres is a UFA at the end of the season and he's struggling. Which all in all, should equal to a decent contract on the lower scale of what he would have gotten if he repeated last seasons accomplishments.
Torres is RFA at the end of the season.

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01-27-2007, 03:56 PM
  #44
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Torres is RFA at the end of the season.

^So I have been corrected yet again, but.. you get my point. Also, all the more reason to keep him.

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