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Proposal MTL/PHI

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Old
01-27-2007, 03:38 AM
  #1
BaseballCoach
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Proposal MTL/PHI

The Flyers are rebuilding. Simon Gagné's 06-07 production is a tad disappointing for them, and perhaps they would be willing to trade him in return for solid material to build on.

What could the Habs offer the Flyers that could realistically be the equivalent of Mark Napier and Keith Acton for Bobby Smith?

I think the package has to include a current NHL-level scorer with some upside, a solid but youngish third-line player with upside, a good prospect and a goaltender with NHL promise.

I would propose Michael Ryder, Alexander Perezhogin, Andrei Kostitsyn, and Jaroslav Halak for Simon Gagné,
and also
Sergei Samsonov and a first-round pick for Peter Forsberg.

Is this fair value for both teams?

Koivu-Kovalev-Higgins
Forsberg-Latendresse-Gagné
Bonk-Johnson-Streit
Plekanec-Lapierre-Begin


Last edited by BaseballCoach: 01-27-2007 at 03:46 AM.
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Old
01-27-2007, 04:07 AM
  #2
les Habs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
The Flyers are rebuilding. Simon Gagné's 06-07 production is a tad disappointing for them, and perhaps they would be willing to trade him in return for solid material to build on.

What could the Habs offer the Flyers that could realistically be the equivalent of Mark Napier and Keith Acton for Bobby Smith?

I think the package has to include a current NHL-level scorer with some upside, a solid but youngish third-line player with upside, a good prospect and a goaltender with NHL promise.

I would propose Michael Ryder, Alexander Perezhogin, Andrei Kostitsyn, and Jaroslav Halak for Simon Gagné,
and also
Sergei Samsonov and a first-round pick for Peter Forsberg.

Is this fair value for both teams?

Koivu-Kovalev-Higgins
Forsberg-Latendresse-Gagné
Bonk-Johnson-Streit
Plekanec-Lapierre-Begin
We're giving away waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy too much.

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Old
01-27-2007, 04:10 AM
  #3
BaseballCoach
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Quote:
Originally Posted by les Habs View Post
We're giving away waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy too much.
So if you were Philly, you would do it?

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Old
01-27-2007, 04:12 AM
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les Habs
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So if you were Philly, you would do it?
Of course, but I ain't Filly.

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01-27-2007, 04:23 AM
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The first part adds some 2.4M long term into Habs payroll - theres no room under Cap for that if theres intention of keeping some defence too next summer.

The second part - if Flyers wanted to trade Gagne, why would they bring in another expensive player, underachieving worse and who is couple years older too? Also I think they can do better with Forsberg.


Last edited by Marksman: 01-27-2007 at 04:33 AM.
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Old
01-27-2007, 07:38 AM
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So partially mortgage our future for a guy that is pretty good but not a superstar and who is having an average season at best? No thanks. This smells like another Recchi for Dejardins and Leclair trade.

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01-27-2007, 09:36 AM
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Blind Gardien
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I think the opening sentence "The Flyers are rebuilding" is highly speculative. I think they believe they will have the nucleus of a competitive team returning next year, and they will also have enough salary freed up that they can also believe that they'll be able to fill any remaining critical holes to becoming competitive. My expectation is that they will be looking to a quick turnaround, not rebuilding. As such, Simon Gagne is not going to be available.

Of course, aside from that, you could always argue that an overpayment of sufficient magnitude will get you *any* player from *any* team. Nevertheless, even stacking up Ryder+Kost+Perez+Halak as you propose... I think it would *still* be counterproductive to their program there, because in order to attract the FAs they have money to spend on, they still need to present the promise of their existing core, of which Gagne is the cornerstone. Players looking to join playoff contenders aren't going to sign with Philly just because Michael Ryder is there. So even as your offer might be considered an overpayment, it's *still* not going to work, getting back again to the fundamental premise problem with Philly being a rebuilding team.

Anyway, they've already got Umberger, Richards, Carter, Potulny, Ruzicka, with Downie and Giroux on the way, etc. Prospect forwards can't mean too much for them. Add Gagne, Knuble, maybe Sanderson, and a couple of prominent UFAs to the mix of young guys in that list who are already NHL regulars, and I think they're stocked nicely up front. They have zero incentive to trade Gagne, basically.

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01-27-2007, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by les Habs View Post
We're giving away waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy too much.
No. The price is right.

Perezhogin = a third line/second line at best winger, and the habs have others in the org.

Ryder= one of the worst first line right winger inthe league defensively, and nothing to write to your mom about his goals production. Not an elite goal scorer

Kostitsyn= the big enigma. Might be another Pavel Brendl

Halak= a good goalie, but we still have Price

Samsonov= Please somebody take him !

for Gagné = a real first line winger and a proven goal scorer = Super speedy skater and defensive awareness

Forsberg = no description needed. A leader, a great passer, Kovalev's wake up call.


No, it won't be done, but at least, we would't have to give Markov, Komisarek, Price, Higgins, to name a few. And it would give some breathing space for Latendresse, Plekanec, Lapierre and guys from Hamilton like Grabovski, D Agostini and Chipchura.

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01-27-2007, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
So partially mortgage our future for a guy that is pretty good but not a superstar and who is having an average season at best? No thanks. This smells like another Recchi for Dejardins and Leclair trade.
Simon Gagné is on pace for 40 goals. AGAIN. He is not just 'pretty good', he is Team Canada level GOOD.

Alexander Perezhogin has less than a 1% chance of being the next John Leclair. He has a 50% chance of starring in the Russian League, in my opinion.

We are NOT giving up any mobile defenceman à la Desjardins in this deal. In fact, mobile defencemen are gold as far as I'm concerned.

Jaroslav Halak is a good prospect, but we still have Carey Price, who is the top goalie prospect in the world. We can afford to trade Halak.

Michael Ryder is the main man being given up on the current roster. Still, there is no comparison to Gagné. Simon is a much better skater and much better defensively. He has a good attitude and good skills, is only 26 years old (same age as Ryder), going into the prime of his career, and is signed for FOUR more years after this year. The Montreal fans would LOVE this guy if he were suited up here.

Major trades do carry some risk. However, I really think that this trade has a strong potential of creating a Cup contender this year, and improving our core for the coming years.

As for the salary cap question, for next year we would have the following:

2.9 Huet
0.7 Danis

4.7 Markov
5.0 Souray
1.2 Komisarek
0.6 Streit
1.7 Dandenault
1.9 Bouillon

0.5 Youngster


4.8 Koivu
4.5 Kovalev
1.7 Higgins

2.5 Forsberg (re-signed)
0.9 Latendresse
5.2 Gagné

2.0 Bonk
1.9 Johnson
1.0 Begin

0.7 Plekanec
0.6 Lapierre
0.5 Murray or other 4th line filler

0.5 spare
0.5 Downey or other spare

-----
46.5
-----

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Old
01-27-2007, 10:01 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Simon Gagné is on pace for 40 goals. AGAIN. He is not just 'pretty good', he is Team Canada level GOOD.

Alexander Perezhogin has less than a 1% chance of being the next John Leclair. He has a 50% chance of starring in the Russian League, in my opinion.

We are NOT giving up any mobile defenceman à la Desjardins in this deal. In fact, mobile defencemen are gold as far as I'm concerned.

Jaroslav Halak is a good prospect, but we still have Carey Price, who is the top goalie prospect in the world. We can afford to trade Halak.

Michael Ryder is the main man being given up on the current roster. Still, there is no comparison to Gagné. Simon is a much better skater and much better defensively. He has a good attitude and good skills, is only 26 years old (same age as Ryder), going into the prime of his career, and is signed for FOUR more years after this year. The Montreal fans would LOVE this guy if he were suited up here.

Major trades do carry some risk. However, I really think that this trade has a strong potential of creating a Cup contender this year, and improving our core for the coming years.

As for the salary cap question, for next year we would have the following:

2.9 Huet
0.7 Danis

4.7 Markov
5.0 Souray
1.2 Komisarek
0.6 Streit
1.7 Dandenault
1.9 Bouillon

0.5 Youngster


4.8 Koivu
4.5 Kovalev
1.7 Higgins

2.5 Forsberg (re-signed)
0.9 Latendresse
5.2 Gagné

2.0 Bonk
1.9 Johnson
1.0 Begin

0.7 Plekanec
0.6 Lapierre
0.5 Murray or other 4th line filler

0.5 spare
0.5 Downey or other spare

-----
46.5
-----
Markov and souray are underpaid !!!
and forsberg contract is a JOKE !!!
watch him get 6m$ next year !

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Old
01-27-2007, 10:04 AM
  #11
BaseballCoach
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
Markov and souray are underpaid !!!
and forsberg contract is a JOKE !!!
watch him get 6m$ next year !
If Forsberg won't sign for $2.5M, we have that much to spend on another forward.

If Souray and Markov cost more than I projected, then we can dump Bouillon (overpaid at 1.9M) for a prospect or pick, and move O'Byrne up at 0.5K.

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