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could toronto be a trade partner?

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Old
01-27-2007, 03:48 PM
  #1
Mr Sakich
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could toronto be a trade partner?

1) if JFJ misses the playoffs, he is out of a job. He doesn't have the team to compete this year but he calls the shots and, in the interest of self preservation, he may part with some of his youth. His youth is also not Crosby / Malkin esqu in talent so it is not the end of the world to shed some.

2) lowe must realize that this team is not cup calibre but he cannot appear to be a pure seller as that is an admission of failure that he will never make. A trade of a few vets for toronto's youth can be rationalized as a move for this year and beyond.

Toronto needs help on the pk and some secondary scoring. When a 75 year old Jeff O'neil is your 2nd best scoring forward, you are in trouble. They are a natural for Shawn Horcoff. With the long term injuries to peca and tucker, they would have the cap space to acquire him as well.

Would a horcoff for coliocavo and steen work for us? The savings allows us to sign Smyth. Steen is a legit nhl palyer and could easily be a competent 2nd / 3rd liner with the right linemates. Stoll would be our 1st line centre but he is pretty much our best right now anyways.

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01-27-2007, 03:55 PM
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No it wouldn't help us.

Coliacovo is more injury prone than Tjarnqvist and yet another young D whose at best a #5 defenseman. We don't need any more of those.

Steen is a huge downgrade from Horcoff.

The only player's worth targeting from Toronto are Kaberle (who doesn't want to move) and Tucker.

They have some nice kids, but unless we're trading kids for kids, why bother?

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01-27-2007, 04:02 PM
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How much better would this team of been this year if we had gotten Kaberle and Steen/Stajan for Pronger? Kaberle's quietly having an absolutely stellar season.

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01-27-2007, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich View Post
1) if JFJ misses the playoffs, he is out of a job. He doesn't have the team to compete this year but he calls the shots and, in the interest of self preservation, he may part with some of his youth. His youth is also not Crosby / Malkin esqu in talent so it is not the end of the world to shed some.

2) lowe must realize that this team is not cup calibre but he cannot appear to be a pure seller as that is an admission of failure that he will never make. A trade of a few vets for toronto's youth can be rationalized as a move for this year and beyond.

Toronto needs help on the pk and some secondary scoring. When a 75 year old Jeff O'neil is your 2nd best scoring forward, you are in trouble. They are a natural for Shawn Horcoff. With the long term injuries to peca and tucker, they would have the cap space to acquire him as well.

Would a horcoff for coliocavo and steen work for us? The savings allows us to sign Smyth. Steen is a legit nhl palyer and could easily be a competent 2nd / 3rd liner with the right linemates. Stoll would be our 1st line centre but he is pretty much our best right now anyways.

Few questions arise:

1.) Why?? Coliocavo is 2 things. a.) Really really really injured. b.) still young and not developed enough from what i have read/heard to help us on the blueline.

2.) Our center depth is now: Stoll, Reasoner, MAP, Brodziak....? Would tht be good enough to trade our best defensive center for that guy returning??

3.) I dont have anything, it just looks better with three points . Just to make sure, i am not flaming or bashing just questioning..

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01-27-2007, 04:13 PM
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1) There is no Coliocavo playing for Toronto.

2) Carlo Colaiacovo is injury prone and hasn't turned out to be the defenseman that Toronto thought he was because of injuries.

3) Alex Steen is a 3rd line center at best, and we don't need another.

4) Why would Toronto want Horcoff @ $3.6M/yr.?

So this trade wouldn't benefit anyone.

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01-27-2007, 04:16 PM
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I would feel dirty having leaf players on the Oilers lineup. Sundin would be the only player I would want, and his salary means no way.

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01-27-2007, 04:21 PM
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I would feel dirty having leaf players on the Oilers lineup. Sundin would be the only player I would want, and his salary means no way.
I dunno....

Theres always Wade Belak.

Likes to get into face of opponents, fighting and close team showers together..

Not to mention his defensive poweress...

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01-27-2007, 04:32 PM
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I'm surprised at the response of most around here. I think I'd do that trade for sure. Steen is one of the better young forwards in the league and I think that might just give us the best young forward core in the entire league. Horcoff is overpaid by about a million I'd say and I'd rather the young blood of Steen. I don't have high hopes of Colaiacovo due to all his injuries and such but you never know what he could turn into

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01-27-2007, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich View Post
1) Toronto needs help on the pk and some secondary scoring. When a 75 year old Jeff O'neil is your 2nd best scoring forward, you are in trouble. They are a natural for Shawn Horcoff. With the long term injuries to peca and tucker, they would have the cap space to acquire him as well.
Ummm... O'Neill is 30 years old. Same age as Smyth. Our leading goal-scorer. And same age as Sykora... our leading point scorer.

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01-27-2007, 05:57 PM
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in steen's rookie year, he had 45 points in 75 games. That is pretty good. He is going through a normal sophomore slump so I think he may be a guy Lowe would target.

Coliacovo has had a concussion issue that has slowed his development but he seems to have fully recovered. I think he could turn out to be a solid dman, well worth the risk.

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01-27-2007, 06:13 PM
  #11
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two seasons ago I would have jumped at Carlo C---now, not so much.

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Old
01-27-2007, 07:08 PM
  #12
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If one presumes that DD is the real deal for us then Toronto really has little or nothing we would want in trade.

Their prospect assets of value:

Pogge
Cola
maybe Tlusty and maybe Earl
1st round pick

Their pro assets of value:

Sundin
Kaberle
McCabe
Wellwood
Ponikarovsky
Stajan
Steen
Gill

Pull out the names that are unavailable or too expensive for their play (Sundin, McCabe and Kaberle), those whom the Toronto fans would raise an uproar about losing (Wellwood), those whom we don't need because we have one or two just like them (Pogge) and those who are fragile as glass (Cola) and we are left with:

Ponikarovsky
Stajan
Steen
Gill
Tlusty & Earl

Pretty slim pickings at first glance - however - breaking the premise of my first sentence in this post I have to say that I REALLY like Ponikarovsky and Gill. Value for money they both rock.

Steen is an interesting play for Horcoff part deux, Stajan is a solid depth center/forward, Gill is a very under-rated #3 d-man (slow but great positioning - excellent PK guy as well I believe), Poni is a big, big guy who is quietly developing into what we wish Mihknov had been. Tlusty and Earl are prospect bets all the way.

Now, I don't know what Horcoff could get you out of that pool but it won't be too too much (maybe Steen and Earl / at best Poni and Gill for Horcoff and a pick).

Since I rarely post here any more:

-- Smyth will be signed (EIG needs a new building after all)
-- if Corvo really is available and isn't that expensive (asset-wise) a pick up Lowe should have done it three weeks ago
-- Tanabe is a good pick up out of Carolina as well

Visnovsky, Brewer, Stuart et all are all high price items right now. Picking them up is just stupid imo. Be like trading for a Roloson all over again.

-- Corvo is playing 20 mins a night so you know he can pick up 16 or so and not hurt you too bad - in the meantime he is a waaaayyy better option that Greene or Smid
-- Tanabe is playing 15 mins, a plus player in those minutes, and is also a better option than Greene or Smid; Tanabe is also a UFA after this year

Either way - they will be cheaper to acquire than Visnovsky, Brewer, et al and probably provide the boost we need to make the play-offs.

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Old
01-27-2007, 08:46 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by YKOil View Post
-- if Corvo really is available and isn't that expensive (asset-wise) a pick up Lowe should have done it three weeks ago
Corvo has a ridiculous contract

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Old
01-28-2007, 01:19 AM
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I know you all may take this as Leafs fan being a homer but I have some issues to bring up based on what you've been saying...

1) Colaiacovo - No, he will not likely develop into the player once thought, largely due to concussion problems... BUT, he is still turning out to be a very solid defenseman... Case in point... In 18 games this season he's put up 6 points and sits 2nd for the Leafs' dmen in plus minus at a +4 on a team that has not been good defensively... Gill leading the way with a +6 in 50 games, so Cola's on pace to outdo that...

2) Steen - I fear that many underestimate him due to the sophomore slump he's had this year... BUT, he had a very solid rookie year last year and has turned his season around completely over the past few weeks... After putting up 8 points in his first 33 games (massively slow start) he has come to life with 13 points in his last 17 games including one span of 10 points in 7 games... He's a very solid 2 way player and has team captain material thanks to good leadership abilities... I'm not saying he's got Ovechkin value or anything, but the guy is massively underrated right now... Plus, he can play anywhere up front and even when he wasn't scoring, he was still valuable to the team with his overall play, sitting at a +2 on a defensively inept squad... Plus, I remember many times at the start of this year thinking, "Wow Steen's snakebitten this year" after he hit yet another post...

Now, Horcoff is a good player... Good at both ends of the ice... But let's be honest, you have to admit that he's not playing nearly to his dollar value this year... I'd love to have him on the Leafs... I think he'd be an excellent 2nd center behind Mats... But there's no way in hell I'd give up on Steen to get him... Not when I think one for one Steen has the potential to be as good, if not better than Horcoff down the road... Take into consideration age, salary, and the stage of Toronto's "retooling" and the fact that we're nowhere near competing for the cup, this just wouldn't make sense for the Leafs... ESPECIALLY, if you throw Cola in there too... We need SOOOO much more than Horcoff to compete right now... Starting with a goaltender that can steal a few games for us and hold us over until Pogge's ready... Rayzer's been decent, but decent doesn't steal games...

PLUS, I would be absolutely FLOORED if Ferguson trades Steen within the next few years... He'd be murdered in Toronto... The Leafs have been chastized for years for trading away our youth for vets when we're going for the cup... What do you think would happen to him if he did it when we are in the middle of retooling?

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01-28-2007, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Stoll 16 View Post
I'm surprised at the response of most around here. I think I'd do that trade for sure. Steen is one of the better young forwards in the league and I think that might just give us the best young forward core in the entire league. Horcoff is overpaid by about a million I'd say and I'd rather the young blood of Steen. I don't have high hopes of Colaiacovo due to all his injuries and such but you never know what he could turn into
I'm also suprised, if I'm the leafs I won't do that deal Horc's contract isn't all that great to be honest. Toronto would ask for more in that deal including perhaps a 1st + 3 round pick. TO fans see Steen as their future and Coliacovo as a future 2nd line D plus, both are very cap friendly now which can not be said for horc.

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01-28-2007, 03:10 PM
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Torres for Steen?????
Torres an Ontario boy and played well with Peca if he does come back......Steen is a western Canadian Boy Both are struggling and could use a change of scenery

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01-28-2007, 03:28 PM
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Mr Sakich
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torres for steen is a deal that would not surprise me at all. Nicely done Rafters


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01-28-2007, 03:32 PM
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torres for steen is a deal that would not surprise me at all. Nicely done Rafters

I don't know, I see TO asking for much more then Torres for Steen.

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01-29-2007, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Rafters View Post
Torres for Steen?????
Torres an Ontario boy and played well with Peca if he does come back......Steen is a western Canadian Boy Both are struggling and could use a change of scenery
Steen's not struggling, been playing great the past couple weeks. No way Toronto does Steen for the Torres, we have enough overpaid players thanks.

Pass.

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01-29-2007, 10:27 AM
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Steen's not struggling, been playing great the past couple weeks. No way Toronto does Steen for the Torres, we have enough overpaid players thanks.

Pass.
Oh so because Steen has been playing good for a couple weeks means he is a stellar player. Holly **** stop the presses, kid has a great couple of weeks throw out contract and give him more money he is a stellar player. Might slump for a couple months but when he is on for a couple weeks it more than makes up for it. ******* give your head a shake.

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01-29-2007, 11:07 AM
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The Star reported today that the Oilers and Flames are both "tire-kicking" Tucker:

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/175866

They had the best of all sources, of course: "a source."

A month ago I'd have said it makes no sense whatsoever for us. But I think we've all noticed the loss of Ethan over the past little while, and Tucker's like Moreau except he can score and gets opponents even madder. Still, it strikes me as very unlikely... Lowe knows we need a D, but he's after a grinder? Why, that's almost like us needing a first-line centre and ending up with someone like Mike Peca... never happen.

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Old
01-29-2007, 02:27 PM
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Oh so because Steen has been playing good for a couple weeks means he is a stellar player. Holly **** stop the presses, kid has a great couple of weeks throw out contract and give him more money he is a stellar player. Might slump for a couple months but when he is on for a couple weeks it more than makes up for it. ******* give your head a shake.
I just shook my head now will you take your head out of your ***? Where did I say throw more money at him? My point was that given their contracts/age I would keep Steen over Torres.

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01-29-2007, 02:43 PM
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No it wouldn't help us.

Coliacovo is more injury prone than Tjarnqvist and yet another young D whose at best a #5 defenseman. We don't need any more of those.

Steen is a huge downgrade from Horcoff.

The only player's worth targeting from Toronto are Kaberle (who doesn't want to move) and Tucker.

They have some nice kids, but unless we're trading kids for kids, why bother?
So because of the players mentioned, we just drop the idea of Toronto as a trading partner? Personally, I'm quite interested in Pogge. Our goaltending situation is soft for the long-term... really soft. We lucked out getting Roloson for a 1st rounder (which I claimed at the time of the trade and now) - but we can't expect to luck out like that again. Once Roloson, who has a couple of years to go is done, we're SOL. Why not pick up a goaltender who has performed well at the junior level? Unlike JDD and Dubnyk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoll 16 View Post
I'm surprised at the response of most around here. I think I'd do that trade for sure. Steen is one of the better young forwards in the league and I think that might just give us the best young forward core in the entire league. Horcoff is overpaid by about a million I'd say and I'd rather the young blood of Steen. I don't have high hopes of Colaiacovo due to all his injuries and such but you never know what he could turn into
Agreed! I'd take Steen in a heartbeat!

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I just shook my head now will you take your head out of your ***? Where did I say throw more money at him? My point was that given their contracts/age I would keep Steen over Torres.

I actually agree with you on this one. Steen has shown a decent level of potential and is only a sophomore. Torres really hasn't done anything to warrant his high standing with Oilers fans. I would do that deal without hesitation. Torres reminds me of a small piece of a puzzel, only useful when the rest of the team is solid (e.g. offense & defense look good).

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01-29-2007, 03:27 PM
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I just shook my head now will you take your head out of your ***? Where did I say throw more money at him? My point was that given their contracts/age I would keep Steen over Torres.
I didn't say that you said to give him more money. I am jsut saying you think the guy is such a great palyer cause he has palyed well for 2 weeks. The original post was emant to say he was ahving a dissapointing season cause the year as a whole has been a struggle for steen.

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Old
01-29-2007, 05:02 PM
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Pressure
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Is anyone else around here SICK of hearing that the Leafs are interested in ALL the players that are "possibly" on the trade block!??!? I should have learned my lesson a long time ago, but every single damn year I say the same thing.

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