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Giguere pulled yet again

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Old
12-05-2003, 09:15 PM
  #26
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Indeed the Prospal signing was kind of puzzling to me. I mean overall the league did quite a fine job this summer of not giving out too many ludicrous contracts, but giving a large deal to a soft scorer who had a career year on an offense-first team? Not a good decision, IMO. Fedorov, however, is still an upgrade on Kariya.

The Ducks just are not playing the same suffocating D that they played all of last season. Ozo is playing more like Ozo in his own zone, Carney has come back to earth from God-like playoffs, Havelid is regressing again (no surprise to me), Sauer is hurt, Vishnevski is still inconsistant, and Salei is taking even more dumb penalties. IMO, their D has been the biggest let down. Giguere is also struggling-but I have a feeling he will turn it around pretty fast.

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12-05-2003, 09:24 PM
  #27
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Prospal's been as good as advertised IMO. Excellent passing, aggressive forechecking even though he skates like a cripple, he's our one consistently dangerous player.

16 points in the last 23 games (since the 0-4 start).

Oates and Thomas would've cost 4.5 combined, btw. Which is 2 more than Prospal. Vinny's not the problem.

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12-05-2003, 09:24 PM
  #28
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Giguere has had 3 solid seasons before this year. If anything, he is just having a bad year, and if you watch the Ducks play defensively, you can see why. They are just terrible some nights.

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12-05-2003, 09:25 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afinogenov61
Two words: Jose Theodore. Repeat??
For a second, I thought you were going to write Jim Carey....

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12-05-2003, 09:26 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
Giguere has had 3 solid seasons before this year. If anything, he is just having a bad year, and if you watch the Ducks play defensively, you can see why. They are just terrible some nights.
Most nights.

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12-05-2003, 09:29 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chock Full Of Booger
Oates and Thomas would've cost 4.5 combined, btw. Which is 2 more than Prospal. Vinny's not the problem.
I believe Oates is making roughly 2 million, and Thomas 1 million. Or am I mistaken? Not really a Prospal fan though

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12-05-2003, 09:32 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waveburner
Indeed the Prospal signing was kind of puzzling to me. I mean overall the league did quite a fine job this summer of not giving out too many ludicrous contracts, but giving a large deal to a soft scorer who had a career year on an offense-first team? Not a good decision, IMO. Fedorov, however, is still an upgrade on Kariya.

The Ducks just are not playing the same suffocating D that they played all of last season. Ozo is playing more like Ozo in his own zone, Carney has come back to earth from God-like playoffs, Havelid is regressing again (no surprise to me), Sauer is hurt, Vishnevski is still inconsistant, and Salei is taking even more dumb penalties. IMO, their D has been the biggest let down. Giguere is also struggling-but I have a feeling he will turn it around pretty fast.
I agree that the Ducks D hasn't played as well. But I disagree a bit on your assessment some of the individuals.

Ozolinsh is even on the year, which is saying quite a bit for the Ducks this year. Only 4 players are plus.

Carney has been God like for a few years now. Even a couple of years ago when the Ducks were terrible, he had an insanely high positive +/- rating. I realize the deficencies of the plus minus system. However, his level of play has been consistently outstanding over the past 3 years for the Ducks.

Havelid. Don't know what's up with him. Too many turnovers. He's really struggling. I however am surprised at how far he's fallen.

Sauer's been so-so.

Vishnevski has improved immensely over the last couple weeks. He was a healthy scratch for a couple games, and that lit a fire under his pat-pat.

Salei does take dumb penalties. Like most of the defense, he is underachieving a bit this year. I think he had to carry the weight of being Carney's replacement after the injury to Keith. That was too much for him.


Last edited by lux_interior: 12-05-2003 at 09:36 PM.
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12-05-2003, 09:48 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lux_interior
I agree that the Ducks D hasn't played as well. But I disagree a bit on your assessment some of the individuals.

Ozolinsh is even on the year, which is saying quite a bit for the Ducks this year. Only 4 players are plus.

Carney has been God like for a few years now. Even a couple of years ago when the Ducks were terrible, he had an insanely high positive +/- rating. I realize the deficencies of the plus minus system. However, his level of play has been consistently outstanding over the past 3 years for the Ducks.

Havelid. Don't know what's up with him. Too many turnovers. He's really struggling. I however am surprised at how far he's fallen.

Sauer's been so-so.

Vishnevski has improved immensely over the last couple weeks. He was a healthy scratch for a couple games, and that lit a fire under his pat-pat.

Salei does take dumb penalties. Like most of the defense, he is underachieving a bit this year. I think he had to carry the weight of being Carney's replacement after the injury to Keith. That was too much for him.
Fair enough. I don't watch a lot of Duck games-but what i said was the impression I've gotten from the few games I have watched. I sure hope Vishnevsky can keep it up if he's been improving. His style of play sort of reminds me of a "poor-man's" Jovanovski. Gotta love the hard-hitting d-men. Even if he doesn't have much offensive upside.

BTW is Ozolinsh injury serious? Have him in my pool. Already have 6 players on IR I don't need a 7th.

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12-05-2003, 09:50 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waveburner
I believe Oates is making roughly 2 million, and Thomas 1 million. Or am I mistaken? Not really a Prospal fan though
Oates had a 3.5 million option which we didn't pick up. There was an offer of 2.5 which he never responded to.

Thomas indicated he didn't want to come back, anyway:

Source

However, he felt torn because his family remained in Toronto.

"[The Ducks] got wind I wanted to stay a little bit closer to home. I might have said that along the way, during the playoffs, which is kind of dumb of me," he said. "That's kind of the impression they got, that I didn't want to come back.

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12-05-2003, 09:51 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waveburner
Fair enough. I don't watch a lot of Duck games-but what i said was the impression I've gotten from the few games I have watched. I sure hope Vishnevsky can keep it up if he's been improving. His style of play sort of reminds me of a "poor-man's" Jovanovski. Gotta love the hard-hitting d-men. Even if he doesn't have much offensive upside.

BTW is Ozolinsh injury serious? Have him in my pool. Already have 6 players on IR I don't need a 7th.
Day to day with a ribcage injury.

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12-06-2003, 04:55 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KariyaIsGod
They were the best team in the league the second half of last season. Maybe the trend is repeating itself...

Don't push the panic button yet.

Remember, Detroit scored what, 5 PP goals on them. Giguere was hung out to dry.
Nope, all goals in Wednesday's game were 5-on-5 goals. Each team only had one Powerplay in the game, and Giguere stoped Detroit's only Powerplay shot. You can't use Detroit's powerplay as an excuse :p

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12-06-2003, 05:06 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by kira
Dear Jerky Leclerc,

I'm sorry to have to tell you this but you can't have Stumpy back...we have grown rather fond of him in the short time he's been here, and the chemistry he has developed with Brett and Pavel is really nice. Besides, you got Sergei.

Sorry!

Sincerely,
Wings fans

I tell you, the day the Ducks got Stumpy Thomas was the day the Ducks played with the heart that got them to the cup. He was the key ingredient needed on and off the ice. The Ducks could really use him. Damn you Detroit.

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12-06-2003, 07:28 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lux_interior
I don't think Prospal is as bad as Vlad says. He and Sykora have had pretty good chemistry. He's a good second liner. If anything the Ducks overpaid him. But not a complete waste.
If you hadn't overpaid him, you wouldn't have gotten him. Tampa offered him more per year, it was the fat signing bonus that did it. Glad to hear he's getting the job done.

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12-06-2003, 07:33 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlavaKozlov
Nope, all goals in Wednesday's game were 5-on-5 goals. Each team only had one Powerplay in the game, and Giguere stoped Detroit's only Powerplay shot. You can't use Detroit's powerplay as an excuse :p
I'm not trying to. My mistake. I thought when I was looking at the CBS Sportsline gamecenter that night, all the Detroit goals said PP.

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12-06-2003, 09:32 AM
  #40
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I saw a few Ducks game and let me tell you Giguere is as lost as Theodore last year. He is playing exactly the same way. Its easy to understand, Theodore didn't want to admit it was all the hype that surrounded him that affected his play, but he did at the end of the year: he didn't hard enough during the summer. Giguere with his new huge contract, with all the hype and even a Jay Leno appearance is living the same thing. He didn't put as much effort during the summer and he looks exactly like Theodore did last year.

It was hard to me to believe that, being nave enough to think that endorsements and hype could affect a professional player, but it does, and a lot.

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12-06-2003, 10:46 AM
  #41
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I agree that it was Stumpy that turned things around for the Ducks. Not that he has this big talent but for some reason the Ducks came alive when they got him and took it to the next level. To me, it looks like everyone is waiting for the next guy to win the game for them.

It reminds me of when 99 were a king. For a long time all I would see were players watching him play while on the ice and not doing thier own jobs. Stumpy was just what was needed with all of the super talented players on teh ducks I think he gave them that edge that made them a team. I still think that the players aren't the problem with the ducks. Each of them are solid. I think the problem is that they don't have a team mentality. It were bloody difficult to get to the finals last year and now it is going to require the same intense effort each game and they aren't getting it from the team they have. Not any one players fault, just a lack of a piece of the puzzle. Pick up a heart and soul guy and Roberts your fathers brother if you ask me. Jiggy isn't the problem, the whole team needs to step up and play with that edge that nearly won them a cup. Of course, I am not a ducks fan so I hope things keep going the same way but, I would hope that they fix things as I don't see it as the players being a bad lot.

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12-06-2003, 11:02 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punchy1
I agree that it was Stumpy that turned things around for the Ducks. Not that he has this big talent but for some reason the Ducks came alive when they got him and took it to the next level. To me, it looks like everyone is waiting for the next guy to win the game for them.
Nope. The Ducks began rolling 1/9 against Colorado, going 24-11 after that. Stumpy was acquired 3/12.

He became a very important part of the team once he arrived, and it's debatable whether or not the playoffs would have played out like they did without him, but the team was already rolling.

I agree a guy like that could certainly help provide a blue-collar example for this year's crew. Fedorov plays high-level hockey and just expects other people to be like him; he doesn't lead, he just gets annoyed.

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12-06-2003, 11:23 AM
  #43
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A lot of good points on this thread. I also think there's another, simple reason Giguere has struggled this season: Shooters have figured him out.

Go high on him, all the time. What made Giguere so successful in the playoffs last year is that everyone tried to score low on him, in the corners or on low redirects or deflections. Giguere sells out everything to cover the goal line. Watching shooters this year, everyone tries to go under the crossbar on him. Detroits 1st goal in the game last week was a perfect example. Mowers redirects a Maltby centering pass. Last year, Mowers would have redirected it on the ice trying to slip it under Giguere, and Giguere would have stopped it. Instead, Mowers stickblade was at an angle to direct the puck up over Giguere's shoulder = goal.

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12-06-2003, 03:43 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punchy1
I agree that it was Stumpy that turned things around for the Ducks. Not that he has this big talent but for some reason the Ducks came alive when they got him and took it to the next level. To me, it looks like everyone is waiting for the next guy to win the game for them.
In the same manner I think Stumpy ignited the wings. He seemed to have unbelievable chemistry with Datsyuk and Hull from the get go. Which is surprising for a 40 years old player who missed all of training camp and a good part of the beginning of the season.

Nice signing by Holland.

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12-06-2003, 04:44 PM
  #45
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The last two nights the ducks got their butts kicked Rob Niedermayer did not play, he is one of the teams few Mucker/Grinder types who plays the all around game really well. The team is missing Mike Leclerc because he's the closest to a powerforward the team has he was primed for a breakout season as he showed in the playoffs...the defense is bad with a capital B Giguere has been inconsistant he had a great game vs Jersey and I thought he was really coming around the defense was getting a little better but the team has dodged bullets all season.

Murray is looking for some physical players perhaps Darcy Tucker.

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12-06-2003, 05:08 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kira
I don't know if this means anything or not, but one of the things mentioned the other night during the Wings game was that some of the guys have been watching films of Giguere and they are finding his weak spots and capitalizing on them. And I'm sure the Wings aren't the only ones who are doing or did that.
The Wings were juiced up the Ducks didn't play well Fedorov was the only guy on the ice motivated and he has had to carry McDonald and Chistov lately,almost all the Wings goals came from where they had open ice Giguere is one of the best positional goalies in the league but when he's forced to move alot he struggles...the defense turns over the puck more then any team in the league so I can't blame Giguere for that but he needs to keep playing the defense needs adjustment more then anything.

Quote:
Maybe that is part of what's going on, but after watching the game the other night, it just didn't seem like they really had a lot of coherence out there...they made some really obvious and stupid mistakes. Okay,we are guilty of that too, but it just seemed like that was happening a lot. Maybe it was just me, I don't know.
When the ducks make mistakes they lose unless Giguere plays like God IE:the playoffs except then the defense did a good job of moving the puck,keeping shots outside of good shooting areas and protected the rebounds...none of those things are happening Gigueres record is deceiving he's had like 4 OT losses and some of those should be wins, the team quits playing, when they play hard they look unbeatable...but have yet to put together many nights of 60 minute hockey.

Quote:
Do you think the absence of Thomas and the others really is making that much of a difference? Just wondering...
Thomas was here for 2 and a half months...it has nothing to do with him.

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Old
12-06-2003, 05:16 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
The Prospal signing was an obvious mistake from the get-go. Murray doesn't make mistakes often, fortunately.
Prospals been really good actually he's been a good addition he and Sykora would have close to 20 points if they weren't stuck with Pahlsson and put with Fedorov instead, Vinny is a great passer but Pahlsson can't finish I hope Babc.ock realizes that the team will score more goals having them with Feds.

Quote:
Fedorov is an elite player and more than a suitable replacement for Kariya.
Been the best player by far he'd have more points if he didn't have goalless Chistov playing with him...Put Lupul with him or Sykora and Prospal and he has ATLEAST 25+ points McDonald has hit the wall so its basically Fedorov vs the world.

Quote:
The problem is that for the price of Prospal, they could have had Oates/Stumpy back. Then I feel they would have been a great, great team with less of the spring's magic gone.
Prospal makes a 2.5 base contract Oates wouldn't play for less then 3 million and Stumpy gave the impression all summer he wanted to be back east...he would have been welcomed back had he wanted to be here.

Quote:
Feds has had some pretty good playoffs performances in his career and will be handy, IMO.
The ducks have to get there first :p

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12-06-2003, 06:43 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
Murray doesn't make mistakes often, fortunately.


That is the funniest thing I have heard in a long time.... Thanks for the laugh!

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12-06-2003, 06:59 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by moneyp
Thanks, Trottier.

You're 100% correct. Regardless of what happens, last year was a great season, and the playoff run was both exhilirating and exhausting. It's a feeling every hockey fan should experience at least once in their lives.

As for Jiggy, it's not scouting. The problem is clearly mental. His positioning, so solid last year, is really shaky. He isn't just reacting as he did last year. He's all over the place. Maybe the expectations from last season are weighing on him. Or maybe Mrs. Jiggy is bad luck.

We played tight, controlled hockey in the defensive zone last year. This year? Chickens with our heads cut off. Can't get the puck out of the zone. And because we don't get crisp, clear breakouts, we're suffering on offense.

THIS is where we're really getting killed. We have the skill to really do something on offense, but we have no time or room to use it. We don't enter the O-zone with any speed, defenses swarm the puckhandler, and out comes the puck.

We didn't "suck" in the first half last year. We dropped games in the damnedest way, but the team play was very promising. From about the fifth game on, I thought we were really on to something, and it was no surprise when we finally went on a tear.

This year, that ain't happening. If anything, we're WORSE than our record (currently two games under .500). My feeling is we're a 70-point team, but 70-point teams can finish anywhere from 60 to 80 points due to blind luck. We could find our way back to the playoffs, but right now, I'm doubting it.

It's not positioning. Giguere can't wear those mattresses on his legs anymore and it's exposing a weakness. He's an average goalie with smaller equipment.

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12-06-2003, 07:56 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkwjr
Not the same goalie as last year. Was at the Wing game and he looked lost. Fighting the puck and looks like the weight of the world is on his shoulders.
Well I can imagine that massive upper-body protector would be pretty heavy.

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