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It's A Mistake.

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Old
12-05-2003, 09:14 PM
  #1
Lowetide
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It's A Mistake.

I think trading Mike Comrie at this time is a mistake. The trade I read about in the paper this morning for Perry and a pick assumes the Oilers will need a rw down the line, and can use a pick in the top 60.

Both are correct. However, are those the main needs for the club at this time? Hell if I know.

In baseball, teams spend the winter evaluating what happened last summer and then improving those areas found wanting. The Yankees have added some pop and alot of pitching, the BoSox a top flight pitcher and so it goes.

It's hard enough to evaluate a team in the offseason. Look at the Oilers. Lowe felt the goaltending would be good (good enough that he dealt Markkanen, who had done an exceptional job with this team).

Good enough that the team made no effort to replace Janne Niinimaa's puck moving skills, opting instead for stay at home man Cory Cross (I'm not being critical of the move, just saying that was the decision).

Good enough even to feel that center ice would be fine, despite the loss of Marchant and then Comrie.

Well, most of that blew up real good, and despite it all the Oilers are hanging in there in the very competitive Western Conference.

With all that said, the question becomes which flat tire does Lowe fix? Does he try to acquire a trigger man to work with any combination of York, Oates and Hemsky? Perhaps a solid defender like Vishnevski? Or maybe a goaltender of the future? Picks?

I think the better plan might be to put the idea of Comrie being dealt on the shelf for the duration of the season, and watch how the current roster performs.

Conklin COULD be this team's starter for several years. Stoll COULD be more than a third line center. Torres COULD be a top 2 line winger. Semenov COULD be something special.

You get the idea.

It'll be hard enough to deal Comrie for something approaching fair value, right?

I honestly felt Lowe should have traded Comrie before the season, get the distaction out of the way. But now, with the boat leaking in so many areas, it seems the wisest choice is to hold on to the asset and wait for a chance to evaluate the roster in June.

I just don't think it's obvious what this team needs most, so helping Anaheim seems the only real benefit of the Perry deal.

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Old
12-05-2003, 09:21 PM
  #2
Digger12
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LT, it's your birthday...shouldn't you be in 'bed'?

As for your post, hard to argue with anything you said.

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Old
12-05-2003, 09:50 PM
  #3
Habitant
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The Oilers need someone who can come in and contribute immediately. They have one. His name is Mike Comrie. I agree, if all you're getting is prospects, let Comrie sit until he finally decides that a return is his only option.

P.S. I never thought I'd live to see the Yankee$ and Red $ox compared to the Oilers.

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Old
12-05-2003, 10:07 PM
  #4
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I'm of the same thinking on all of that LT. Unless Lowe gets an offer that blows his doors off, and its from a team that Comrie is willing to play for ... I hope he waits until June. Or if there is a lockout ... until there is hockey again.

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12-05-2003, 10:12 PM
  #5
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It's always going to be difficult in deciding what the club needs to improve as a team. Questions such as the goaltending, defense, and the organizational NHL ready center depth are all valid concerns. However, they are hard to fix all at once.

I doubt Lowe is going to find some magic cure-all to heal the defensive, goaltending and center concerns all at once...so what can Lowe do?

IMO, I firmly believe that Lowe should be looking at the future rather than what the club needs currently. Sure.. we need some defensive help. But is Lowe willing to take a little less on the dollar to get that kind of help as opposed to what is being offerred? I hope not.

Things change in the NHL as they always do. Just as you said, Semenov COULD be something special. Lynch COULD come up next year and blow the lights out in camp... and the defense could magically be solid again. It is a difficult decision for Lowe to make on what to acquire and without a crystal ball, I don't think Lowe is going to be perfect.

So, in essence, Lowe should just get what he believes is the maximum return. I agree about the Perry rumors. How does this help Edmonton now and in the future? IMO, it really doesn't do a lot for either. What Lowe needs to do is just get a fair justified return. If no club is willing to offer what he wants, I have no problem with Lowe telling the media the Comrie situation is closed and will be reopened after the season. But I dislike hearing any of this "settling" for Perry and a pick discussion.

Note: It would probably be difficult to deal Comrie right at the beginning of the season. Clubs have their roster pretty much set and would like to see how the team performs first before actively pursuing a player like Comrie. The better the team plays, the less need for a player like Comrie and the less they are willing to give up in offers to Edmonton. Most likely, Lowe would have received his lowest offers during that time period.

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Old
12-05-2003, 10:44 PM
  #6
Asiaoil
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Lowe will do what he has always done - target certain guys and then wait until the team that currently has the player gives him up. He did that in the Poti/York deal and I think he did that with Torres as well (Isbister was a toss-in IMO). I dont know who he's targeted from the ducks/la/isles/thrashers but he hasn't gotten him yet or the deal would already be done. The best time to do the deal is when you get what you want - simple as that - and what Lowe wants for Comrie was probably decided long ago (stud dman?). Lowe seems to have a plan and sticks with it in spite of the ups and downs that fans go through.

Whether it's a smaller issue like trading MC or building the team - you make a good plan and stick with it unless something unforeseen happens. Rash moves like what Bobby Clarke gave up for Oates after he lost 2 centers to injury 2 years ago rarely pan out. This Lowe guy is a patient man and I respect him for that.


Last edited by Asiaoil: 12-05-2003 at 10:49 PM.
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Old
12-06-2003, 04:55 AM
  #7
Yanner39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
I think trading Mike Comrie at this time is a mistake. The trade I read about in the paper this morning for Perry and a pick assumes the Oilers will need a rw down the line, and can use a pick in the top 60.

Both are correct. However, are those the main needs for the club at this time? Hell if I know.

In baseball, teams spend the winter evaluating what happened last summer and then improving those areas found wanting. The Yankees have added some pop and alot of pitching, the BoSox a top flight pitcher and so it goes.

It's hard enough to evaluate a team in the offseason. Look at the Oilers. Lowe felt the goaltending would be good (good enough that he dealt Markkanen, who had done an exceptional job with this team).

Good enough that the team made no effort to replace Janne Niinimaa's puck moving skills, opting instead for stay at home man Cory Cross (I'm not being critical of the move, just saying that was the decision).

Good enough even to feel that center ice would be fine, despite the loss of Marchant and then Comrie.

Well, most of that blew up real good, and despite it all the Oilers are hanging in there in the very competitive Western Conference.

With all that said, the question becomes which flat tire does Lowe fix? Does he try to acquire a trigger man to work with any combination of York, Oates and Hemsky? Perhaps a solid defender like Vishnevski? Or maybe a goaltender of the future? Picks?

I think the better plan might be to put the idea of Comrie being dealt on the shelf for the duration of the season, and watch how the current roster performs.

Conklin COULD be this team's starter for several years. Stoll COULD be more than a third line center. Torres COULD be a top 2 line winger. Semenov COULD be something special.

You get the idea.

It'll be hard enough to deal Comrie for something approaching fair value, right?

I honestly felt Lowe should have traded Comrie before the season, get the distaction out of the way. But now, with the boat leaking in so many areas, it seems the wisest choice is to hold on to the asset and wait for a chance to evaluate the roster in June.

I just don't think it's obvious what this team needs most, so helping Anaheim seems the only real benefit of the Perry deal.
My thoughts excatly LT. (happy d-day BTW). Distraction. I don't care what any player says. The Comrie issue is a distraction and this is no slight on Mike. Mike still has friends in the dressing room, he probably hangs out with some of them.

Just like the Cujo situation in Detroit was a distration even if Chelios and Shanahan denied it. Lagace didn't. He sat between them in the dressing room. The two situation can be compare simple based on the fact that there is an issue between a teammate and management. I think it trickles down in the room.

I always maintain that a deal sonner rather than later would have been better for this team. As the season progresses, the Oilers become more desperate to deal Comrie because 1) they are struggling 2) MC is a distraction.

It's funny reading about Bryan Murray the other day in the Sun. It's funny how he doesn't have a confidentiality agreement in this whole Comrie deal. He goes on by saying that he's VERY interested in Comrie and that he's spoken to Lowe on a NUMBER of times. Doesn't that put a little pressure on Lowe to get a deal done? B.Murray has nothing to lose. He just puts the ball in Lowe court. I mean, he did make sure not to reveal to the media what he was offering for Comrie. I think as we move forward, more GMs will do the same. Wasn't the purpose of the confidentiality agreement in place so that the two side wouldn't negotiate in the media?

Anyways, I really don't know who this will play out. At one point I thought we'd get a really good return for Comrie. When the Perry rumors came out, I said "ouch". Now I really don't know.

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Old
12-06-2003, 06:30 AM
  #8
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Guys i think its better its takind so long .Lowe is sticking to his guns and he will wait till he gets a trade that benefits the Oilers .Of course Murray is gonna spot off about how hes trying to get the deal done ..he knows what the impact will have in Edmonton and how the fans will start blaming Lowe for dragging his heels .All more pressure for Lowe to give in to Murray .The pressure is on Murray as his Ducks are quicky turning from swans into the Carolina Hurricanes and he knows Comrie can possibly turn his season around .Hes offering K-Lo crap , theres no doubt in my mind if he offered something decent the deal would be done .Guys i know its hard right now with the Oil mired in this horrible , end of playoffs slump (5 points behind Flames)..but we have to support K-LO ..he will do whats best for this team ..he is one of the top GMs in the league ..lets have some faith in him .

 
Old
12-06-2003, 07:13 AM
  #9
xauxi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiaoil
Lowe will do what he has always done - target certain guys and then wait until the team that currently has the player gives him up. He did that in the Poti/York deal and I think he did that with Torres as well (Isbister was a toss-in IMO). I dont know who he's targeted from the ducks/la/isles/thrashers but he hasn't gotten him yet or the deal would already be done. The best time to do the deal is when you get what you want - simple as that - and what Lowe wants for Comrie was probably decided long ago (stud dman?). Lowe seems to have a plan and sticks with it in spite of the ups and downs that fans go through.

Whether it's a smaller issue like trading MC or building the team - you make a good plan and stick with it unless something unforeseen happens. Rash moves like what Bobby Clarke gave up for Oates after he lost 2 centers to injury 2 years ago rarely pan out. This Lowe guy is a patient man and I respect him for that.

I am with you 100%

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Old
12-06-2003, 09:17 AM
  #10
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this is gonna sound bad maybe... but i am just so sick and tired of all this that im starting to not *care* what we get back..... i used to be excited and thought how the trade will help the team and such, but i havent heard one rumor that has excited me since the frolov rumor.... pretty much every other rumor has has a PATHETIC return for comrie.... ill say that again.... PATHETIC.... i know all the reasons that we wont get good return for him (upcoming CBA, small center etc etc) ..... its just getting to the point that im *expecting* to get royally screwed on this deal (like we did on the weight deal)..... and isnt that sad?? we're prolly gonna get a worst return than we did for weight (nothing against reasoner, cause i like him a lot) even though comrie is ours and will go where we tell him to

lol, well that turned into a bit more of a rant than i expected it to.... i dont know anymore.... maybe we just hold onto comrie until the new CBA is figured out

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Old
12-06-2003, 10:17 AM
  #11
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I just hope Lowe gets what he REALLY wants/needs, whether it takes another day, week or year.

I'm a have a "janne" nervousness flowing through my vains this week.

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Old
12-06-2003, 10:22 AM
  #12
hmminvisiblecola1279
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hopefully he gets more than just coupons from the brick.

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Old
12-06-2003, 10:30 AM
  #13
oilswell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
With all that said, the question becomes which flat tire does Lowe fix? Does he try to acquire a trigger man to work with any combination of York, Oates and Hemsky? Perhaps a solid defender like Vishnevski? Or maybe a goaltender of the future? Picks?
Well I'm not sure what to think. A few facts keep swirling in the brain. Every year when the Oilers have a slide you hear talk about how MacTavish should be canned. At the same time, I think you'll hear people saying that the team is missing critical parts, such as a true starting goaltender, 1st line C, #1 and #3 defender, PP quarterback, and veteran presence. It seems to me that if the coach were THAT bad AND the team is THAT full of serious holes, they wouldn't be only 2 games under .500. I guess they're only on pace for 76 points, though, so it could be a bit of both. Better teams (e.g., Dallas) have sucked more seriousl though, so its no proof.

Quote:
I think the better plan might be to put the idea of Comrie being dealt on the shelf for the duration of the season, and watch how the current roster performs.
I don't see the harm in keeping one's ears open for offers. I think, however, this could look a little like Peca's story.

Quote:
I honestly felt Lowe should have traded Comrie before the season, get the distaction out of the way.
I think he would have tried harder if he knew Comrie's camp would go this way. All signs appeared to point towards Comrie being willing to sign.

Quote:
I just don't think it's obvious what this team needs most, so helping Anaheim seems the only real benefit of the Perry deal.
IMO the thing this team needs most is some top-2/3 picks. And it ain't gonna get any. The next most critical thing needed are patience and time (in that order)

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Old
12-06-2003, 10:34 AM
  #14
Slats432
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I guess that I would have to be in the disagree camp.

My take is this is all about power, personality, and not patience.

The words from Waddell(ATL) and Wilson(SJ) are that Kevin Lowe shows no sense of urgency when speaking about trading Mike Comrie.

Kevin Lowe has maintained his we will do what is best for the club, but in my eyes that has a lot to do with maximizing his asset, rather than showing the players who is boss.

I support Kevin in his dispute with Comrie, but not the personal putting the screws for the long term to him.

I think that if K-Lo would have aggressively pursued a Mike Comrie trade in the early stages, the return would have been good and this would be over.

In the early stages Vishnevsky, Perry and a first for Comrie and spare parts could be done. Kevin Lowe's inactivity towards the situation probably hurt it....and here is why...

Regardless of what the truth is...the dispute has been described negatively towards Mike and Rich Winter. With that spectre teams look at it as a possibility towards them and that is what diminishes the value. Every time Winter or Mike speaks, someone in Edmonton gets pissed off and says something negatively about Mike, Rich or both. That again does nothing for the value of the asset.

The fans don't look at the situation in a clinical manner, they are just pissed off that 1. The don't have Comrie and 2. The don't have anything for him.

And I believe that is the fault of management. Hanging on to a guy that needs to be on the ice until the draft doesn't increase his value.

I think what Kevin Lowe must do is figure out what the biggest need is (My opinion is solid top four blueliner) and keep tossing into the pot until you get what you need.

This whole cloud may have as much to do with the Oilers performance than anything else.

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