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Conroy's (mis)use in L.A.

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Old
01-31-2007, 03:18 AM
  #1
Osprey
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Conroy's (mis)use in L.A.

I was struck by a few quotes of Conroy's after last night's game:
Quote:
Originally Posted by L.A. Times
"Tonight was the most I've played in three months," said Conroy, who logged 19 minutes 21 seconds of ice time — 11 seconds off his season high.

"In L.A., I wasn't killing any penalties. I wasn't really on the power play."
Gee, how simple is that solution looking right now? You put faith in him by giving him ice-time, good linemates and important situations, and look at what happens. If the solution was so simple, why couldn't Crawford see it?

I think that Craig could've been snapped out of his slump long ago by being treated as an important part of the team, not as a spare part. I'm sure that he was intended to be counted on before the season, but, when Kopitar made the team, it was as if he was no longer needed. He got bumped to the 3rd line, below even Armstrong, inexplicably. What message could that have possibly sent to Craig? Of course, it sent only one message and he heard it loud and clear. Just after the trade, he said to a Flames reporter, "It just didn't seem like I was fitting into their plans." That's an understatement. They treated him since the start of the season as though he couldn't help the team much. It was, practically, a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you treat a player like he's washed up, he's going to play washed up.

Could they (Crawford, particularly, but Lombardi, too) have done more to help Craig? I really think so. I don't think that they really even tried. Armstrong was more important to them and it showed, to us and, particularly, to Craig. Some of you might say that I'm just over-reacting to a single game, but, honestly, I'm only reacting to these feelings of his that, being the guy that he was, he never publicly spoke about until now.

Anyways, what do you think of Conroy's use/misuse this season?

BTW, here's the full article from which the quoted part above was taken:
http://www.latimes.com/sports/hockey/nhl/kings/la-sp-kings31jan31,1,3029845.story?coll=la-headlines-sports-nhl-kings


Last edited by Osprey: 01-31-2007 at 04:32 AM.
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01-31-2007, 03:43 AM
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dabeechman
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Ive said it before that conroy was never put in a position to make a contribution.

Crawford is doing the same thing with cloutier. I have questioned MC coaching all season long, and in short crawford IS the reason LA didnt make the playoffs. He is stubborn, and irrational.

Good luck to Craig, im glad he is proving DL and MC to be fools (and yes I like DL, but enough is enough)

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01-31-2007, 03:56 AM
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Originally Posted by dabeechman View Post
Ive said it before that conroy was never put in a position to make a contribution.
Then you must not have watched much of the Kings first half of the season, when he was playing with Frolov, O'Sullivan, Avery, and/or Cammalleri.

Conroy was being outplayed by Derek friggin' Armstrong. He was moved to the third line to fill the defensive center role, but he had his fair share of shifts with the talented forwards and did absolutely nothing with it.

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01-31-2007, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by King'sPawn View Post
Then you must not have watched much of the Kings first half of the season, when he was playing with Frolov, O'Sullivan, Avery, and/or Cammalleri.

Conroy was being outplayed by Derek friggin' Armstrong. He was moved to the third line to fill the defensive center role, but he had his fair share of shifts with the talented forwards and did absolutely nothing with it.

better get rid of brown too then while we are at it, because he has been on the #1 line for a couple weeks now.

Armstrong outplays a lot of people, it doesnt make him better. Avery outplays a lot of our guys, but that doesnt make him better either.

When was the last time conroy was out with kopitar and cammy?

Ive watched every game broadcasted. Thanks

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01-31-2007, 04:18 AM
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Nothing is ever as easy as it seems in pro sports...

Lombardi has said before that the head coach makes decisions as to who plays, how much, and use what system. So that hands-off approach tells me that Lombardi did his part, which was to "help him" by trading him to the team of his choice.

I'm really curious as to how much the constant trade rumors surrounding him played a hand in nerfing his production for us this year. He's come out in the media and admitted that he was a worrier by nature and that the uncertainty was really eating him up.

Eh. I suppose the extent will be revealed once he gets into more games with the Flames, but I'm of the opinion that there was no way he was going to regain his form with the Kings. Nothing short of Lombardi guaranteeing that he would not be traded would have gotten the monkey off of Conroy's back and that just wasn't happening.

I just can't jump on the popular bandwagon that's no doubt going to be copy/pasted many times on this board for the next few weeks -- that Crawford should have played him more on the PP/PK, should have given him time, or some other such suggestions. I'm a stubborn and dead set believer that a player should earn playing time by elevating their game to where the coach has no excuse or choice BUT to play you. Conroy just didn't show it to me, but I'll leave open the avenue for criticism that I might be too unfair in my stance.

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01-31-2007, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by King'sPawn View Post
Conroy was being outplayed by Derek friggin' Armstrong.
Conroy was bumped out of the top-6 before ever being outplayed by Armstrong. Armstrong was just given the 2nd-line job in training camp and the luxury of playing all season with Cammalleri in offensive roles. Conroy always centered the 3rd line in a checking capacity. Yes, he had a decent linemate now and then, but it was like a revolving door of whoever wasn't currently meeting expectations for the top-6 at the time (the 3rd line was an ever-changing "reject" line, if you will). To say that one player "outplayed" another, I think that you have to have at least slightly comparable situations. I don't consider what Conroy had to go through to be at all comparable to the easy ride that Armstrong's had (i.e. no trade rumors, a stable spot in the top-6 since training camp, stable linemates, consistent opportunities on the PP and OT, etc.).

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01-31-2007, 05:18 AM
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Great post Osprey, I agree 100%

Interesting comments from Rich Hammond too...

Quote:
Craig Conroy, who had five goals in 52 games this season with the Kings, put two in the net in his debut for Calgary...against the Kings, of course. That's remarkable in itself, but let's look inside the numbers.

Conroy took 25 shifts, the most of any Flames forward. Yes, that's correct. He had barely been a member of the team for 24 hours and got the most shifts. Of course, Calgary coach Jim Playfair was an assistant during the last two seasons of Conroy's first stint in Calgary. Anyway, Conroy played 19 minutes, 21 seconds. He cracked the 19-minute mark with the Kings ONCE this season, in a 7-4 loss to Phoenix on Nov. 30. In his last game with the Kings, Conroy didn't log one shift on the penalty kill. In his Calgary debut, he logged 4:04, the most of any Flames skater.

And he scored two goals...hmmm, interesting, isn't it? Was Conroy simply energized by the opportunity to stick it to the Kings? Did he just not fit in Crawford's system? Or was he not utilized properly this year? Only time will tell.
link

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01-31-2007, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osprey View Post
Conroy was bumped out of the top-6 before ever being outplayed by Armstrong. Armstrong was just given the 2nd-line job in training camp and the luxury of playing all season with Cammalleri in offensive roles. Conroy always centered the 3rd line in a checking capacity. Yes, he had a decent linemate now and then, but it was like a revolving door of whoever wasn't currently meeting expectations for the top-6 at the time (the 3rd line was an ever-changing "reject" line, if you will). To say that one player "outplayed" another, I think that you have to have at least slightly comparable situations. I don't consider what Conroy had to go through to be at all comparable to the easy ride that Armstrong's had (i.e. no trade rumors, a stable spot in the top-6 since training camp, stable linemates, consistent opportunities on the PP and OT, etc.).
Conroy was the 1st line center going into camp. Kopitar took that from him. Conroy then played on a second line with Frolov after Kopitar and Frolov were split up, and had zero chemistry with the guy. Armstrong has been getting the points that were expected out of Conroy while playing with Frolov. Conroy had plenty of time and opportunity, and it just wasn't working this year.

It's not shocking that Conroy may have seemed to not be part of the plan. He's in his mid-30's, and was here pre-Lombardi. You have to figure guys in that category, especially with the way the year has turned out, aren't going to be in the mix for long.

Not to mention that Conroy keeps saying he never really wanted to leave Calgary. So in the end he came to the Kings simply for a fairly large payday. If he wanted to be in Calgary so bad, go, be happy.

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01-31-2007, 08:12 AM
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He clearly wasn't utilized and we all knew that. He was great last season when he was playing on the top line.

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01-31-2007, 08:42 AM
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Langkow also got hurt in the game last night. His minutes had to go to someone and Conroy fit the bill. I’m sure if Kopitar got hurt in a game, Conroy’s minutes would have gone up. The fact is that a 19-year old rookie and a career journeyman center vastly outplayed Conroy this season. Would you rather have had Kopitar’s minutes reduced so that Conroy could get more ice time? I certainly wouldn’t. I can’t remember how many times Conroy took stupid, lazy hooking penalties in the offensive zone for the Kings this season. Conroy was never in the Kings long-term plans.

I will miss Conroy as much as I miss Corvo.

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01-31-2007, 09:39 AM
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Crawford won the Stanley Cup. The wife could win the Cup with Sakic and Foresberg and Deadmarsh and Foote and Roy. He appears at this point and with this team to be what he was as a player, a plodder. The Thornton, Willsie, Cloutier debachles are proof of his mentality of "plod". Frolov and Avery catch fire and he breaks them up. HUH? The Smyth line scores 4 times without any significant change in Crawfords strategy, to plod. Moving Visnovsky to the other side of the ice was another unmitigated disaster. I'm sure you have your own examples of "the plod".

I said it on the trade page, Crawfords handling of Conroy hurt our return for Craig. Lundmark looked like the second coming of Rasmussen. Add in the second and a fourth who probably will never see the NHL unless we are very lucky in the draft and you have the return of zilch for a top 100 kind of guy. I always thought that Marc Crawford was "on the ball". I now have very very serious doubts about the mans ability to motivate a team, to assess talent and develop strategy. How much of the young players development can we actually lay at Crawford's feet?

Consider a change Dean. There are many better guys to handle this most important administrational position.


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01-31-2007, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guzmania View Post
Crawford won the Stanley Cup. The wife could win the Cup with Sakic and Foresberg and Deadmarsh and Foote and Roy. He appears at this point and with this team to be what he was as a player, a plodder. The Thornton, Willsie, Cloutier debachles are proof of his mentality of "plod". Frolov and Avery catch fire and he breaks them up. HUH? The Smyth line scores 4 times without any significant change in Crawfords strategy, to plod. Moving Visnovsky to the other side of the ice was another unmitigated disaster. I'm sure you have your own examples of "the plod".

I said it on the trade page, Crawfords handling of Conroy hurt our return for Craig. Lundmark looked like the second coming of Rasmussen. Add in the second and a fourth who probably will never see the NHL unless we are very lucky in the draft and you have the return of zilch for a top 100 kind of guy. I always thought that Marc Crawford was "on the ball". I now have very very serious doubts about the mans ability to motivate a team, to assess talent and develop strategy. How much of the young players development can we actually lay at Crawford's feet?

Consider a change Dean. There are many better guys to handle this most important administrational position.
Finally someone who shares my thoughts on Crawford, great job Guz.

You forgot to mention the neverending lines shuffling which doesn't help to build any chemistry.

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01-31-2007, 09:50 AM
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There are veteran players who, understanding the situation, rise to the occasion. Craig Conroy sunk to the depths. What he did with his ice time was float, take lazy penalties, and more often than not, did not provide the coach any reason to give him more opportunities. He had a good thing going last year with Demitra but this year, he had little chemistry with whoever he played with. He was invisible in most games, and it's not like he didn't have chances to show his worth. I agree with the fact that he could have gotten some minutes on the PK, but what it ultimately looked like to me was that this guy saw the writing on the wall very early on in the season and just gave up. No pun intended, he knew he was a lame duck, and was waiting for the chance to wear a sweater that presented him an opportunity to wear it with pride. Different players react to situations in different manners. Craig Conroy gave up on the Kings long before the coach gave up on Craig Conroy, and ultimately he got a chance to revitalize at precisely the wrong time for Kings fans. Playfair sensed an opportunity. He's not a stupid guy.

I'm happy with the return on Conroy. I don't think that based on his age, his play, and his contract that DL could have done a whole lot better.

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01-31-2007, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TubbyTerrion View Post
There are veteran players who, understanding the situation, rise to the occasion. Craig Conroy sunk to the depths. What he did with his ice time was float, take lazy penalties, and more often than not, did not provide the coach any reason to give him more opportunities. He had a good thing going last year with Demitra but this year, he had little chemistry with whoever he played with. He was invisible in most games, and it's not like he didn't have chances to show his worth. I agree with the fact that he could have gotten some minutes on the PK, but what it ultimately looked like to me was that this guy saw the writing on the wall very early on in the season and just gave up. No pun intended, he knew he was a lame duck, and was waiting for the chance to wear a sweater that presented him an opportunity to wear it with pride. Different players react to situations in different manners. Craig Conroy gave up on the Kings long before the coach gave up on Craig Conroy, and ultimately he got a chance to revitalize at precisely the wrong time for Kings fans. Playfair sensed an opportunity. He's not a stupid guy.

I'm happy with the return on Conroy. I don't think that based on his age, his play, and his contract that DL could have done a whole lot better.


Man, when you stay on topic (meaning when you're actually writing about hockey, as opposed to marketing departments and out-of-context head coach quotes) you're a pleasure to read!

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01-31-2007, 10:15 AM
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From a Calgary perspective....

Conroy will not put up huge numbers in Calgary (Last night was an emotional night for him but it will not continue that way). Calgary has 2 solid lines that played great before Conroy was re-acquired so there is no plans (I think) to put him there.

What he will bring is strong leadership, and enthusiasm to the locker room (If you listen to some of the Calgary players in the last few days, you'll see that they're quite happy with his attitude and what he brings to the team). He'll also be used quite a bit on the PK - an area that Calgary sorely needs! So he'll be getting a lot more minutes than he had in LA and I did notice last time he played for Calgary that if you give him more minutes he will play a lot better.

The reason he may not have played well in LA this year may have been a few reasons. 1 - the rumors were flying all year he would be traded (not may players continue to play well when that news starts). 2 - He may or may not have had the ice time to produce (I didn't see many games so I don't know). 3 - He may have just not liked playing in LA - If you look at teams like Calgary or Buffalo, and conversely St. Louis or Phoenix you'll see that if you have players on the team that want to play there they'll produce far better.

On the other side - he is aging, he won't be playing with the player (Iginla) he had last time and he will also be used in a more defensive role so he may disappoint us as well.

This is a trade that will show its results in the next year or so. LA may be laughing all the way to the cup by then.

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01-31-2007, 10:15 AM
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Don't you think that Crawford misuses most of the players? Including Kopitar.

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01-31-2007, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TubbyTerrion View Post
There are veteran players who, understanding the situation, rise to the occasion. Craig Conroy sunk to the depths. What he did with his ice time was float, take lazy penalties, and more often than not, did not provide the coach any reason to give him more opportunities. He had a good thing going last year with Demitra but this year, he had little chemistry with whoever he played with. He was invisible in most games, and it's not like he didn't have chances to show his worth. I agree with the fact that he could have gotten some minutes on the PK, but what it ultimately looked like to me was that this guy saw the writing on the wall very early on in the season and just gave up. No pun intended, he knew he was a lame duck, and was waiting for the chance to wear a sweater that presented him an opportunity to wear it with pride. Different players react to situations in different manners. Craig Conroy gave up on the Kings long before the coach gave up on Craig Conroy, and ultimately he got a chance to revitalize at precisely the wrong time for Kings fans. Playfair sensed an opportunity. He's not a stupid guy.

I'm happy with the return on Conroy. I don't think that based on his age, his play, and his contract that DL could have done a whole lot better.
Bravo.

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01-31-2007, 10:23 AM
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If you play well, no matter WHAT line you're on, you'll get ice time

Look at the first 13 games

An average of 17 minutes

1 point and a -6

So why would he deserve ice time?

Kopitar had 3g, 9a and was only -1

Armstrong 1g, 4a and LESS minutes than Conroy and a +2

Conroy cost Conroy a job, not Crow

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01-31-2007, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TubbyTerrion View Post
There are veteran players who, understanding the situation, rise to the occasion. Craig Conroy sunk to the depths. What he did with his ice time was float, take lazy penalties, and more often than not, did not provide the coach any reason to give him more opportunities. He had a good thing going last year with Demitra but this year, he had little chemistry with whoever he played with. He was invisible in most games, and it's not like he didn't have chances to show his worth. I agree with the fact that he could have gotten some minutes on the PK, but what it ultimately looked like to me was that this guy saw the writing on the wall very early on in the season and just gave up. No pun intended, he knew he was a lame duck, and was waiting for the chance to wear a sweater that presented him an opportunity to wear it with pride. Different players react to situations in different manners. Craig Conroy gave up on the Kings long before the coach gave up on Craig Conroy, and ultimately he got a chance to revitalize at precisely the wrong time for Kings fans. Playfair sensed an opportunity. He's not a stupid guy.

I'm happy with the return on Conroy. I don't think that based on his age, his play, and his contract that DL could have done a whole lot better.
Rarely agree with you but thanks you for adding to the sane people in this thread. As said above and I also felt Conroy gave up LONG before we gave up on him. Conroy recieved more then enough opportunities while not rising to the plate. Also if a player can't play with rumours of being traded what is he doing in the NHL. In this league players come and go, there are always rumours or movement going on. As Tubby wrote some people play through it others give up. Also to the Crawford won Stanley Cup only because of the players. Let me start out by saying not a huge fan of Crawford but look at Colorado's roster few years ago. They have Kariya and Selanne playing on their 3rd line and couldn't win it. Now go back through the last few or several years look at all the top teams that failled or awesome roster teams that accomplished nothing. Did Crawford get help from who he had on his team? Obviously but at the same time he must of done something right himself.

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01-31-2007, 10:57 AM
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once Andy Murray broke up the Conroy-Frolov-Demitra line last season, it was all downhill from there

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01-31-2007, 10:57 AM
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As long as YOU are happy...
I'm not. Conroy should have been traded, especially if he was a "fifth wheel" and was sought by other teams. His return was still impacted. 3 for one is never a good deal. The value never adds up. Added with other blunders you have your last-place-in-the Western-Conference Los Angeles Kings coached by Marc Crawford (my assessment only). Draft pick, smaft pick. I think performance has been mentioned in regards to Conroy, so apply the formula. I may be myopic but "sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander".

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01-31-2007, 11:18 AM
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As much as I like what Crawford has been able to do with Brown, Frolov, and Kopitair, I don't like how he handled Conroy and the Cloutier situation makes me sick.

For the first time, I am questioning the coaching decision. Crawford has been heralded as overrated and favoring Cloutier and he has proven both so far. The only good thing is he getting the most out of kids that had not lived up to expectations, which he is known for (Sedin, Bertuzzi). We'll see long term if one is worth the other...

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01-31-2007, 11:22 AM
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As much as I like what Crawford has been able to do with Brown, Frolov, and Kopitair, I don't like how he handled Conroy and the Cloutier situation makes me sick.

For the first time, I am questioning the coaching decision. Crawford has been heralded as overrated and favoring Cloutier and he has proven both so far. The only good thing is he getting the most out of kids that had not lived up to expectations, which he is known for (Sedin, Bertuzzi). We'll see long term if one is worth the other...
crawford didnt come into this season with a plan to make the palyoffs. he took the job knowing that the team wouldnt amout to crap this year. he knows the team is rebuilding. any other coach that would have taken the position would know the same thing when they signed up.

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01-31-2007, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by TubbyTerrion View Post
There are veteran players who, understanding the situation, rise to the occasion. Craig Conroy sunk to the depths. What he did with his ice time was float, take lazy penalties, and more often than not, did not provide the coach any reason to give him more opportunities. He had a good thing going last year with Demitra but this year, he had little chemistry with whoever he played with. He was invisible in most games, and it's not like he didn't have chances to show his worth. I agree with the fact that he could have gotten some minutes on the PK, but what it ultimately looked like to me was that this guy saw the writing on the wall very early on in the season and just gave up. No pun intended, he knew he was a lame duck, and was waiting for the chance to wear a sweater that presented him an opportunity to wear it with pride. Different players react to situations in different manners. Craig Conroy gave up on the Kings long before the coach gave up on Craig Conroy, and ultimately he got a chance to revitalize at precisely the wrong time for Kings fans. Playfair sensed an opportunity. He's not a stupid guy.

I'm happy with the return on Conroy. I don't think that based on his age, his play, and his contract that DL could have done a whole lot better.


I completely agree. The coach can't do anything with a player that has given up from the get-go, so I don't know what more could have been done.

Stop playing Army because Conroy wasn't producing? Nah. He floated and brooded through the past 50 games, from the very beginning. I'm happy that he doesn't have the weight of trade talks on his shoulders anymore, and that he's obsviously back with the team he loves, but the timing kinda sucked. Anyway, Lombardi did what he could, and I think it wasn't that bad, considering that Conroy basically lowered his own value by playing unmotivated and apprehensive hockey for the past few months.

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01-31-2007, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by King'sPawn View Post
Then you must not have watched much of the Kings first half of the season, when he was playing with Frolov, O'Sullivan, Avery, and/or Cammalleri.

Conroy was being outplayed by Derek friggin' Armstrong. He was moved to the third line to fill the defensive center role, but he had his fair share of shifts with the talented forwards and did absolutely nothing with it.
If he didn't score last night no one would be saying anything.. He was playing with frolov the first half of the season. Maybe it was the fact that he knew Burkes soft spots? or maybe luck.. or maybe because he is a professional.

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