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Sonne could be better than Turris

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Old
01-31-2007, 11:23 PM
  #1
Dream Big
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Sonne could be better than Turris

Brett Sonne is not ranked as high as Turris and I'm wondering why.

In Junior B same year:
Sonne for the Coquitlam Bucceroos had 52 points in 45 games-19 goals 33 assists
Turris for the Grandview Steelers had 33 points in 30 games - 13 goals 20 assists

At August 2006 U-18 World Championships in CZE
http://www.hockeycanada.ca/2/1/3/4/2/index1.shtml go to statistics
Sonne tied (3 way)for 3rd in scoring 3 goals 1 assist
Turris tied (15 way for 9th in scoring 1 goal 1 assist

Sonne has proven pedigree of being better. Now he plays in the WHL-Major Junior
Turris plays in the BCHL-Minor Junior

Turris is ranked so much higher but I'm wondering what the ranking for these two would be if they were both in the same league.

What do you think?

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Old
02-01-2007, 12:12 AM
  #2
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IN Junior Pro Brandon Reid had more points then Sidney Crosby, and so did Jason KIng! in QMJHL. Jason king is in Europe right now, Brandon Reid is in Winnipeg and Crosby is in first place scoring in the NHL? ARe they suppose to be better then Crosby?

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02-01-2007, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentNaslund View Post
IN Junior Pro Brandon Reid had more points then Sidney Crosby, and so did Jason KIng! in QMJHL. Jason king is in Europe right now, Brandon Reid is in Winnipeg and Crosby is in first place scoring in the NHL? ARe they suppose to be better then Crosby?
large amounts of potential, dedication and intangibles make a ranking generally. Unless your a phenom a draft ranking is based largely what you have done in junior or ncaa + potential. From what i am hearing about Turris is that he could turn out to be a real scorer, while Sonne seems to be more of a grinder.

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Old
02-01-2007, 01:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentNaslund View Post
IN Junior Pro Brandon Reid had more points then Sidney Crosby, and so did Jason KIng! in QMJHL. Jason king is in Europe right now, Brandon Reid is in Winnipeg and Crosby is in first place scoring in the NHL? ARe they suppose to be better then Crosby?
I don't understand the comparison to Crosby. Jason King and Brandon Reid are both 1981 born while Crosby is 1987. For the comparison to be valid they would have had to all three play in the same league the same year and also at U-18 the same games.

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02-01-2007, 01:48 AM
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Because:
1) Turris IS better. Watch them play. Turris is simply better. Not to dis Sonne but I can't imagine anyone who has seen both play this year say that Sonne is a better player or prospect.
2) Scouts rank them almost completely on their final draft eligible season- not on what they did 2 years ago, let alone just on stats from their 15 year old seasons. Turris has turned it up a notch this year while Sonne has been so so.
3) The league they are in doesn't matter. Skill is skill. Turris chose the BCJHL because he wants to go the NCAA route.

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Old
02-01-2007, 01:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montreal Russians View Post
large amounts of potential, dedication and intangibles make a ranking generally. Unless your a phenom a draft ranking is based largely what you have done in junior or ncaa + potential. From what i am hearing about Turris is that he could turn out to be a real scorer, while Sonne seems to be more of a grinder.
I guess what I wonder is this. In Jr. B Sonne was the leading scorer over Turris. Again Sonne outscored Turris as recently as August 2006 in a World Championship.

If Turris were playing in the WHL would he still "be a real scorer" or is his scoring a result of playing in a less competitive arena. If he could not be a prolific scorer could he grind?

If Sonne were playing in Jr. A would his scoring ability outshine Turris?

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Old
02-01-2007, 04:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montreal Russians View Post
large amounts of potential, dedication and intangibles make a ranking generally. Unless your a phenom a draft ranking is based largely what you have done in junior or ncaa + potential. From what i am hearing about Turris is that he could turn out to be a real scorer, while Sonne seems to be more of a grinder.
It's false anyway since Reid's and King's best seasons fall at least 10 points below Crosby's worst season in the q. I don't know why the poster made that **** up.

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02-01-2007, 12:11 PM
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Turris is younger, more explosive, and shows potential that Sonne can only dream of. Hence, the higher (much) rating. Sonne cant even muster up a point eevry two games in the WHL, Turris would be over a point per game.

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Old
02-01-2007, 01:15 PM
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I thinks scouts expected a lot more out on Sonne this season. He just hasn't produced enough offense to justify a first round ranking. Sure, he could very well end up being one of the best players in the draft but at the moment he isn't a top talent... screw what these players did in the past, THIS is their draft year, and Turris may have exceeded offensive expectations while Sonne has easily left a lot to be desired.

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Old
02-01-2007, 02:20 PM
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Just watch the 2 players play--Turris has way more skills....

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02-01-2007, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Turris is younger, more explosive, and shows potential that Sonne can only dream of. Hence, the higher (much) rating. Sonne cant even muster up a point eevry two games in the WHL, Turris would be over a point per game.
Are you sure he'd be over a ppg game in the dub? That's a pretty tall order for a young player....

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02-01-2007, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbtatter View Post
Are you sure he'd be over a ppg game in the dub? That's a pretty tall order for a young player....
If Hamill's in the ballpark Turris would have around or over a ppg

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02-01-2007, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by sbtatter View Post
Are you sure he'd be over a ppg game in the dub? That's a pretty tall order for a young player....
Turris is more explosive than Brule was at age 17, and he had 87 points in 70 games. I dont see why not, the only thing working against him would be the strength factor. There are no animals like Mike Gauthier in the BCHL.

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02-01-2007, 10:16 PM
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sonne doesn't have the offensive instincts nor creativity that turris has... its not even close!

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02-01-2007, 10:55 PM
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If we're judging a player by how he scores in a league at age 15 and a 4 game tourney at age 16, then a friend of mine in Alberta would be better than Stu Barnes, since he outscored him at one midget tourney way back when and had similar stats to Barnes in Alberta midget hockey.

That friend is now in real estate and never got past 1 year in the AJHL. Another guy I know who runs a restaurant outscored Joe Sakic at a midget tournament when both were 16. I bet a lot of people on this board could put up similar stories.

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Old
02-02-2007, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by steblick View Post
If we're judging a player by how he scores in a league at age 15 and a 4 game tourney at age 16, then a friend of mine in Alberta would be better than Stu Barnes, since he outscored him at one midget tourney way back when and had similar stats to Barnes in Alberta midget hockey.

That friend is now in real estate and never got past 1 year in the AJHL. Another guy I know who runs a restaurant outscored Joe Sakic at a midget tournament when both were 16. I bet a lot of people on this board could put up similar stories.
You're supporting my point in "that friend" "never got past 1 year in the AJHL" whilst Sonne is in his 2nd year of the WHL notoriously one of the toughest if not the toughest league to score in for that age category. Sonne also was invited to Top Prospects so must be considered top at least a top 30 forward in the CHL?

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02-02-2007, 06:21 PM
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Yeah, I could be better than Turris too, but I'm not.

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Old
02-02-2007, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by domefan View Post
You're supporting my point in "that friend" "never got past 1 year in the AJHL" whilst Sonne is in his 2nd year of the WHL notoriously one of the toughest if not the toughest league to score in for that age category. Sonne also was invited to Top Prospects so must be considered top at least a top 30 forward in the CHL?
Oh, I see. Your point was that Sonne is better than my friend. Or. apparently, just that Sonne is a half-decent prospect.

Somehow, I got the impression that your actual point was that player stats at age 15 or in four game tournaments might be a useful projection for the future and that's why Sonne may be better than Turris. Don't know why I thought that. Guess I just read it wrong.

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Old
02-02-2007, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Turris is younger, more explosive, and shows potential that Sonne can only dream of. Hence, the higher (much) rating. Sonne cant even muster up a point eevry two games in the WHL, Turris would be over a point per game.
arent they the same age ? both born in 89 ? the differance would be a couple months... not enough to note as a differance... except on HF

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02-02-2007, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
There are no animals like Mike Gauthier in the BCHL.
animals ? care to elaborate ?

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Old
02-03-2007, 06:10 AM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Form and Substance View Post
It's false anyway since Reid's and King's best seasons fall at least 10 points below Crosby's worst season in the q. I don't know why the poster made that **** up.
I was just thinking that as well...Reid nor King every outscored Sidney in the QMJHL

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02-03-2007, 08:34 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannoabram View Post
arent they the same age ? both born in 89 ? the differance would be a couple months... not enough to note as a differance... except on HF
Difference is 5 months. Not alot, but still enough when dealing with 17 year olds.

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Old
02-03-2007, 11:42 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steblick View Post
Oh, I see. Your point was that Sonne is better than my friend. Or. apparently, just that Sonne is a half-decent prospect.

Somehow, I got the impression that your actual point was that player stats at age 15 or in four game tournaments might be a useful projection for the future and that's why Sonne may be better than Turris. Don't know why I thought that. Guess I just read it wrong.
Sorry Steblick. My fault not yours for being unclear about what my point is.

Firstly I want to make clear that I think Turris is a good player and I'm not saying he isn't.
What I'm trying to point out is that Sonne is playing against stronger players so it is more difficult to score. If he were in the BCHL like Turris who knows what his stats could be?

But based only on the documented stats of Sonne scoring in the exact same games and league as Turris he should project to score more than Turris if he were in the BCHL.

http://whl.ca/news/nhldraft.php.
Look at how may NHL drafted players ie: Mueller, Irving, Wyshart, Grabner, Franson, Mikkelson, Hanzel, White, Dupont, Burki, Calla, Russell, Dorsett, Helm, etc. etc. etc. are currently playing in the WHL.
There are no NHL drafted players currently playing in the BCHL that I'm aware of. Thereby the BCHL is the weaker sister. Getting 50 goals, while very good, in the BCHL does not mean Turris could duplicate this in the WHL.

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Old
02-03-2007, 03:58 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domefan View Post
You're supporting my point in "that friend" "never got past 1 year in the AJHL" whilst Sonne is in his 2nd year of the WHL notoriously one of the toughest if not the toughest league to score in for that age category. Sonne also was invited to Top Prospects so must be considered top at least a top 30 forward in the CHL?
Quote:
Originally Posted by steblick View Post
Oh, I see. Your point was that Sonne is better than my friend. Or. apparently, just that Sonne is a half-decent prospect.

Somehow, I got the impression that your actual point was that player stats at age 15 or in four game tournaments might be a useful projection for the future and that's why Sonne may be better than Turris. Don't know why I thought that. Guess I just read it wrong.
I got the idea that saying that just because Sonne outscored Turris at the U-18 this summer, doesn't mean the Sonne is a better prospect. Was it that hard to comprehend?

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