HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Oilers Trade Rumors!?!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-01-2007, 01:12 AM
  #1
thebkon
Registered User
 
thebkon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 205
vCash: 500
Oilers Trade Rumors!?!

I was @ Joxs this evening taking in the game against CBJ and on one of the TVs they had TSN and their highlights. I glanced over at the screen and saw Dregger and Lansburry (sp?) talking and one of the topics was "Oilers Rumors". I never heard a damn thing because the speakers were playing the game. Anyways, I was wondering if anybody saw it and could tell me what was said?

Thanks

thebkon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2007, 01:37 AM
  #2
Raoul Duke*
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,007
vCash: 500
Brad Stuart.

And that was about it. Dreger said Stuart is a UFA and wants to go back to California at the end of the year anyway. Then said Lowe isn't in the market for rentals..

But Dreger is a moron.

Raoul Duke* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2007, 01:40 AM
  #3
HFPM
Registered User
 
HFPM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Leduc...
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,642
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to HFPM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raoul Duke View Post
Brad Stuart.

And that was about it. Dreger said Stuart is a UFA and wants to go back to California at the end of the year anyway. Then said Lowe isn't in the market for rentals..

But Dreger is a moron.
Yeah. Dreger pretty much said Stuart was our guy and Brewer(?) and Vis were too expensive.

HFPM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2007, 02:33 AM
  #4
Zach and Slater
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Zach and Slater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,234
vCash: 500
Not accusing anybody of doing this that posted in this thread but.....If we want a d-man here people, we have to GIVE UP SOMETHING!!! I just talked in another thread about what it would cost to get Mike Van Ryn. Florida, a team that isn't deep at all on the blueline, a team that has ZERO reason to deal a guy like Van Ryn but has a guy in Van Ryn that would be a perfect fit with us and could become a number 1 guy with us given that he'll get a lot more ice time here then he does there and he's at that age(27)where d-man usually take that next step in there careers. I suggested offering MAB, Torres, Winnie, Our 08 1st rounder and this year's 3rd. Is it an overpayment for the guy??? Yes, but at the same time is it what Florida would want in return for Van Ryn....YES IT IS, as compared to what 2 guys told me how's it's the "dumbest thing they've ever read on here". And you're probably wondering what this has to do with this thread, well Dreger brought up that Visnovsky will cost too much, but that's the kind of guy we have to get, a guy that will be here next season, like Visnovsky or Van Ryn, and what I proposed for Van Ryn is what it will take to get one of those guys. We're not giving up a very good d-man, a streaky scorer, a 4th line winger, a 1st rounder NEXT year not this year, and a 3rd, it's not THAT much of a package, or at least something that we couldn't afford or makes us worse in another area. All I know is that the guys that Lowe wants he'll have to pay a lot for because he'll look to do a deal that helps us LONG TERM as well, it's just the type of guy he is. Even if what I suggested does happen, IMO it STILL improves this team because our d is so freakin bad. Double D suggests Brewer will be here, and I agree, but Brew isn't enough, we need a guy that can be a top pairing guy and a PP QB and Van Ryn can be that guy.


Last edited by Zach and Slater: 02-01-2007 at 03:12 AM.
Zach and Slater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2007, 03:13 AM
  #5
Afterglow
Registered User
 
Afterglow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,506
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Afterglow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Gold View Post
Not accusing anybody of doing this that posted in this thread but.....If we want a d-man here people, we have to GIVE UP SOMETHING!!! I just talked in another thread about what it would cost to get Mike Van Ryn. Florida, a team that isn't deep at all on the blueline, a team that has ZERO reason to deal a guy like Van Ryn but has a guy in Van Ryn that would be a perfect fit with us and could become a number 1 guy with us given that he'll get a lot more ice time here then he does there and he's at that age(27)where d-man usually take that next step in there careers. I suggested offering MAB, Torres, Winnie, Our 08 1st rounder and this year's 3rd. Is it an overpayment for the guy??? Yes, but at the same time is it what Florida would want in return for Van Ryn....YES IT IS, as compared to what 2 guys told me how's it's the "dumbest thing they've ever read on here". And you're probably wondering what this has to do with this thread, well Dreger brought up that Visnovsky will cost too much, but that's the kind of guy we have to get, a guy that will be here next season, like Visnovsky or Van Ryn, and what I proposed for Van Ryn is what it will take to get one of those guys. We're not giving up a very good d-man, a streaky scorer, a 4th line winger, a 1st rounder NEXT year not this year, and a 3rd, it's not THAT much of a package, or at least something that we couldn't afford or makes us worse in another area. All I know is that the guys that Lowe wants he'll have to pay a lot for because he'll look to do a deal that helps us LONG TERM as well, it's just the type of guy he is. Even if what I suggested does happen, IMO it STILL improves this team because our d is so freakin bad. Double D suggests Brewer will be here, and I agree, but Brew isn't enough, we need a guy that can be a top pairing guy and a PP QB and Van Ryn can be that guy.


that is all

Afterglow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2007, 03:14 AM
  #6
gr8haluschak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,190
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Afterglow View Post


that is all
especially for Mike Van Ryan

gr8haluschak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2007, 03:24 AM
  #7
MrMackey
Registered User
 
MrMackey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: cgy
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,061
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Gold View Post
I suggested offering MAB, Torres, Winnie, Our 08 1st rounder and this year's 3rd.
wow.

MrMackey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2007, 03:33 AM
  #8
jiggyman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 1,220
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Gold View Post
Not accusing anybody of doing this that posted in this thread but.....If we want a d-man here people, we have to GIVE UP SOMETHING!!! I just talked in another thread about what it would cost to get Mike Van Ryn. Florida, a team that isn't deep at all on the blueline, a team that has ZERO reason to deal a guy like Van Ryn but has a guy in Van Ryn that would be a perfect fit with us and could become a number 1 guy with us given that he'll get a lot more ice time here then he does there and he's at that age(27)where d-man usually take that next step in there careers. I suggested offering MAB, Torres, Winnie, Our 08 1st rounder and this year's 3rd. Is it an overpayment for the guy??? Yes, but at the same time is it what Florida would want in return for Van Ryn....YES IT IS, as compared to what 2 guys told me how's it's the "dumbest thing they've ever read on here". And you're probably wondering what this has to do with this thread, well Dreger brought up that Visnovsky will cost too much, but that's the kind of guy we have to get, a guy that will be here next season, like Visnovsky or Van Ryn, and what I proposed for Van Ryn is what it will take to get one of those guys. We're not giving up a very good d-man, a streaky scorer, a 4th line winger, a 1st rounder NEXT year not this year, and a 3rd, it's not THAT much of a package, or at least something that we couldn't afford or makes us worse in another area. All I know is that the guys that Lowe wants he'll have to pay a lot for because he'll look to do a deal that helps us LONG TERM as well, it's just the type of guy he is. Even if what I suggested does happen, IMO it STILL improves this team because our d is so freakin bad. Double D suggests Brewer will be here, and I agree, but Brew isn't enough, we need a guy that can be a top pairing guy and a PP QB and Van Ryn can be that guy.

Mike? Is that you?

jiggyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2007, 03:57 AM
  #9
Digger12
Registered User
 
Digger12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Defending the border
Posts: 15,229
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMackey View Post
wow.
If that's the kind of package (which isn't far off in value for what Lowe got for Chris freakin' Pronger) it would take to land a slightly above average 2 way dman, I think I'd much rather the Oilers take their chances with what they have.

Florida can keep Mr. Van Ryn, he can help caddy on the golf links they're destined to visit in April.

Digger12 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2007, 04:08 AM
  #10
Zach and Slater
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Zach and Slater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,234
vCash: 500
Why do you guys think this is too much??? This is what it will take. You know I love to think we could lowball every team in the NHL as much as the next guy, but name a number 1 d-man that a team would be willing to move who is also signed to a good deal for next season? There are NONE. Now, tell me what reason Florida has to move a guy like Van Ryn? NONE what so ever. Now tell me what reason LA has to move Lubomir Visnovsky? NONE what so ever. Now tell me why you all think that MAB, Winchester and a 3rd is so FREAKIN valuable??? Winchester who's in our dog house and isn't THAT young(25), doesn't look like he's has potential past the 3rd line. Since when did a FREAKIN 3rd round pick become so valuable??? And will MAB become more then a 5/6 d-man who's a legit PP QB??? That is his UPSIDE. Torres had a great game tonight, he's still streaky as hell. a 1st is very valuable, but it's for 08 not 07. Now that you're now going "well then why would Florida do it then?" Because I'm not saying these guys are worthless by any means, but when evaluating a trade you have to look at it from both sides, and that's what the Panthers would say but they would also say it gives them a d-man to fill in for Van Ryn that still has some upside, it gives them a banger on the LW that could replace Roberts, it gives them a winger that can play on any line and it gives us a 1st rounder...they don't have to deal this guy, but it's a pretty good offer and will improve them in enough area's that they might just be tempted enough to pull the trigger. Does the deal make us better today? Yes it does, and Van Ryn still has a great upside, could become a legit number 1 if he's put in the right situation, but he's defintley capable of being a PP QB, on a top pairing, is a great puck mover, and can play 25+ minutes a night. He has a SWEETHEART contract for the next 2 seasons for under 3 mil, with the money we save on him we could still go out and land a d-man like a Markov or Timmonen, or to a lesser extent Brewer, or deal for a Redden.

Zach and Slater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2007, 04:41 AM
  #11
Cerebral
Registered User
 
Cerebral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,765
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Gold View Post
Why do you guys think this is too much??? This is what it will take. You know I love to think we could lowball every team in the NHL as much as the next guy, but name a number 1 d-man that a team would be willing to move who is also signed to a good deal for next season?
You are greatly overvaluing what a defenceman like Van Ryn would be worth if Florida decides to move him. Here's the thing I find funny: You're trying to be more "realistic" with your trade offer yet it's even more unrealistic than some of the more homer-ish ideas around here. Don't accuse others of being homers and creating "lowball" offers when your proposal is even more unrealistic and ridiculous.

__________________
Burn Girl Prom Queen
Cerebral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2007, 04:53 AM
  #12
Zach and Slater
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Zach and Slater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,234
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral View Post
You are greatly overvaluing what a defenceman like Van Ryn would be worth if Florida decides to move him. Here's the thing I find funny: You're trying to be more "realistic" with your trade offer yet it's even more unrealistic than some of the more homer-ish ideas around here. Don't accuse others of being homers and creating "lowball" offers when your proposal is even more unrealistic and ridiculous.
Well trust me man, I really hope you're right!!! I don't want to give up that much, but if we got him, he would be here for another 2 years at under 3 mil a year and is capable of being a top pairing guy and could QB our PP. All I'm saying is that you have to pay a lot to get those guys, espically when there current team doesn't have a reason to move them...but trust me, I would be estatic if we got him for cheaper then what I proposed. But I guarentee this: My proposal is not very far off, and it's not that ridiculous because it is a guy with a contract that a team has no reason to move, and Vishnovsky would cost the same if not more. According to the media, Lowe is after a guy like this, who he'll solve both long term and short term problems....those guys cost a lot, around what I proposed. You talk about "if Florida decides to move him", you need to make some of these teams WANT to move him because a normal package won't make them want to do it, an overpayment like I'm proposing would. I mean, Eric Brewer, they're talking about him now costing a 1st rounder+....for a guy that's been playing below what Van Ryn has been, who's a UFA at the end of the year.

Zach and Slater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2007, 04:59 AM
  #13
SickMonkey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 394
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral View Post
You are greatly overvaluing what a defenceman like Van Ryn would be worth if Florida decides to move him. Here's the thing I find funny: You're trying to be more "realistic" with your trade offer yet it's even more unrealistic than some of the more homer-ish ideas around here. Don't accuse others of being homers and creating "lowball" offers when your proposal is even more unrealistic and ridiculous.
Absolutely agreed.

The problem here Ari is that your post is based on two ideas, both of which nobody else seems to agree on. You say that this is what it would take to get Van Ryn. Most would disagree. And then you say that since this is what it would take to get him, we should do it. Most would disagree, as losing that much for one player would not make our team better.

Also, make an attempt to befriend the "Enter" key on your keyboard. I promise that it won't bite.

SickMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2007, 05:01 AM
  #14
Cerebral
Registered User
 
Cerebral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,765
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Gold View Post
Well trust me man, I really hope you're right!!! I don't want to give up that much, but if we got him, he would be here for another 2 years at under 3 mil a year and is capable of being a top pairing guy and could QB our PP. All I'm saying is that you have to pay a lot to get those guys, espically when there current team doesn't have a reason to move them...but trust me, I would be estatic if we got him for cheaper then what I proposed. But I guarentee this: My proposal is not very far off, and it's not that ridiculous because it is a guy with a contract that a team has no reason to move, and Vishnovsky would cost the same if not more. According to the media, Lowe is after a guy like this, who he'll solve both long term and short term problems....those guys cost a lot, around what I proposed. You talk about "if Florida decides to move him", you need to make some of these teams WANT to move him because a normal package won't make them want to do it, an overpayment like I'm proposing would. I mean, Eric Brewer, they're talking about him now costing a 1st rounder+....for a guy that's been playing below what Van Ryn has been, who's a UFA at the end of the year.
You need to understand something though: If a GM isn't looking to move a player, a GM isn't look to move a player. Kevin Lowe can call up whoever is running the show in Florida and ask if he's interested in moving Van Ryn but the call ends if the GM says no. This isn't NHL 94, Lowe isn't going to take a couple minutes and then call back with a ridiculous over-the-top offer.

Likewise, if the cost for Van Ryn even comes close to approaching what you feel it does (which I'm quite confident in saying it does not), why would Lowe or any sane Oilers fan want anything to do with him?

Cerebral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2007, 05:05 AM
  #15
Cerebral
Registered User
 
Cerebral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,765
vCash: 500
Here's a challenge for you Ari: Go look at some of the trades that have gone down for defencemen over the last decade or so. Report back with a few examples of individual defencemen who got dealt for as much as you're proposing in this thread (a reasonably young 20 goal scoring power forward, a decent offensive defenceman, a young 4th line grinder, a first round draft pick (which could potentially be somewhat high) and a third round draft pick.

Cerebral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2007, 06:17 AM
  #16
Zach and Slater
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Zach and Slater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,234
vCash: 500
Wow Cerebral are ever taking this waaaaayyyyyyy too freakin seriously!?!?!? If this team deals Raffi Torres plus for Brad Stuart are they keeping him? No, EVERYONE is saying he'll be back on the West Coast this summer, and San Jose will most likely have the cap room to do it. Is Brewer as good as Van Ryn? I don't believe so, I think Van Ryn is much better offensivly then Brewer, he's a better puck mover then Brewer and he'll cost less over the next 2 years then Brewer will(Brew will get well over 3 mil on the open market, maybe approach 4 mil a year). So with people in the media now saying that Brewer will cost more then just a 1st round pick.....a UFA. St.Louis is on the fence for wanting to deal him, meaning if they get what they want they will, but the price will be a little higher then what he should be worth.

My point is this, there are hardly ANY d-man out there to begin with, we're not the only ones looking for a d-man. Also, you have to WOW these teams into getting a d-man that's worth while. I would rather overpay for Mike Van Ryn, who's a legit top 4, who has the ABILITY to be a top pairing guy, who has a sweetheart contract, there is a ton of positives with Van Ryn. I would much rather overpay for him, then give the good half of my offer (Torres and MAB/1st round pick) for Brad Stuart who contrary to what you think is a very simular d-man to Van Ryn who we would only have for 2 months. Also you wanted to know what d-men have been moved for a steep price? Well you'll get mad because he was so much better back then compared to what Van Ryn is now, but Rob Blake as a UFA got Deadmarsh(a proven 30 goal power forward who was only 28 at the time), Aaron Miller who in the old NHL was a top 4 guy, and a 1st round pick. This for a guy who at the time nobody thought Colorado could keep, and had Ray Bourque stuck around another season they may not have had the budget to keep him. The Islanders AT THE TIME paid one heck of a steep price for Hammer. A high 2nd round pick, a guy who at the time was probably comparable to what Smid is now if not more so, and Josh Green who at the time most were projecting to be a 2nd line winger. And both of those situations were at times that those GM's pretty much HAD to move there guys. The Kings were going to lose Blake for nothing, and the Oil couldn't afford Hamrlik anymore.

I know I'm not going to convince you man, and I know that my proposed deal isn't going to happen but on the flip side of things it doesn't sound like you're prepared to pay ANYTHING for a d-man and that isn't going to happen either. Again, I PERSONALLY would rather overpay for a quality guy that we would have around for a while then pay less for a guy that isn't much better and will only be here 2 or 3 months. One more thing, if you give a team a deal they can't refuse, they won't man. It might not be NHL 94, but opposing GM's aren't idiots either, if it makes them a better hockey team both now and in the future, they're doing it, even if they don't want to move a guy. Now you can argue that the proposal makes no sense for the Panthers there for it's a lost cause, but it sounds to me like your argument is a lost one if you say it makes no sense for the Cats because you talk like it's the biggest overpayment in NHL history.


Last edited by Zach and Slater: 02-01-2007 at 06:33 AM.
Zach and Slater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2007, 06:24 AM
  #17
Zach and Slater
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Zach and Slater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,234
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral View Post
Likewise, if the cost for Van Ryn even comes close to approaching what you feel it does (which I'm quite confident in saying it does not), why would Lowe or any sane Oilers fan want anything to do with him?
Because he's a top 4 guy that has top pairing ability, he's a great puck mover, because he's paid under 3 mil a year for the next 2 seasons, because he's still only 27 years old which is around the time d-men take that next step, because there aren't many d-men availble more so there are none that are guarenteed for the next 2 years, because while there are a lot of pieces to this proposal Winnie isn't worth much and neither is the 3rd round pick you could probably toss them out of the package as I only put them in to sweeten the pot so to speak there for when you take them out you're getting into the range that Boston wants for Brad Stuart minus either the 1st or MAB and with Stuart guarenteed to walk after the season and not being much better then Van Ryn why waste your time if it only helps you for a few months then you're in the exact same situation this time with a lot less pieces to deal, and FINALLY, because after we deal all that stuff.....it makes our blueline a lot better which makes us a better hockey club. But again, I'm not meaning to start a war on here, I think it will cost a ton for Lowe to get a d-man in here that fits both long term and short term....don't get ticked at me just because it would cost a lot to get a d-man like this in here. Look at the deal this way: Torres, MAB, and our 08 1st rounder. Forget the other stuff. Boston is likely to get something simular to Torres and MAB/1st rounder for Stuart....why not take the extra step for a guy who'll be here for a while, who's a very simular defenseman??? But AGAIN I'll say I really hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I'm that far off.....but it's just my opinion, obviously not your's or anybody else's on this board.


Last edited by Zach and Slater: 02-01-2007 at 06:30 AM.
Zach and Slater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2007, 06:31 AM
  #18
quat
winsome, loathsome
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Victoria BC
Posts: 9,566
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to quat
If that's the cost of a player today, then you'd be far better off picking up UFA's like Salo and say Bryan Allen in the off season. Will cost nothing but salary and you can keep Torres and the rest.

Salo moves the puck well and is extremely steady (not the most durable guy around, so that should keep his salary down), and Allen is a decent stay at home, somewhat mean guy who has a decent outlet pass. I imagine he would come in under 2 million.

Plus if you were really intersted in trading Torres, I'm sure Lowe could get a player close to Van Ryan's skill set during the offseason for his value.

Anyhow, I think Ari is underestimating the value of Torres.

quat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2007, 06:47 AM
  #19
Zach and Slater
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Zach and Slater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,234
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SickMonkey View Post
Absolutely agreed.

The problem here Ari is that your post is based on two ideas, both of which nobody else seems to agree on. You say that this is what it would take to get Van Ryn. Most would disagree. And then you say that since this is what it would take to get him, we should do it. Most would disagree, as losing that much for one player would not make our team better.

Also, make an attempt to befriend the "Enter" key on your keyboard. I promise that it won't bite.
I promise you however that I will! The problem here is that I never said WE SHOULD DO IT, my POINT is that to get the d-man that is both a short and long term solution we will have to pay a steep price such as this.

What you're missing is that I don't believe the package I offered is THAT steep. I think MAB is a 5/6 d-man who could QB a PP given the right situation, but can't carry one, and he's not a SMART defensman.

I also think that a lot of GM's around the league don't value Torres the same way we do. I think Torres put in the right situation could get 30+ a year, but a guys trade value goes down when he's only at 10 and we're well over half way through the season.

I think Winchester isn't worth much right now to OUR TEAM because he's burried in Mac T's dog house, we also have a lot of guys that could take his place.

And finally I don't think the 3rd round pick is worth a ton because it's not a 1st or a 2nd rounder like some are making it out to be. The 1st is a 1st....it's also an 08 1st rounder, not an 07.

This won't convince you I realize that I'm just showing you my reasoning for this, I'm trying to be a realist yet wanting to get the RIGHT guy in here, and yet I'm getting punished from one side and the other because nobody wants to pay for a guy that is of value.

And notice I didn't take a grammer cheap shot at you like you did at me, honestly man the words are there weather they're 8 miles apart or joined together, you did read it didn't you...

Zach and Slater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2007, 06:52 AM
  #20
Zach and Slater
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Zach and Slater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,234
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by quat View Post
If that's the cost of a player today, then you'd be far better off picking up UFA's like Salo and say Bryan Allen in the off season. Will cost nothing but salary and you can keep Torres and the rest.

Salo moves the puck well and is extremely steady (not the most durable guy around, so that should keep his salary down), and Allen is a decent stay at home, somewhat mean guy who has a decent outlet pass. I imagine he would come in under 2 million.

Plus if you were really intersted in trading Torres, I'm sure Lowe could get a player close to Van Ryan's skill set during the offseason for his value.

Anyhow, I think Ari is underestimating the value of Torres.
I don't have one problem with this, but these fans that I'm going tooth and nail with also want to make the playoffs and we most likely won't without an upgrade on the blueline this season. I'm in the minority who thinks that we SHOULD rebuild, and we SHOULDN'T pay this steep of a price when guys like Van Ryn will be much cheaper on draft day....but most want to make the playoffs and all I'm saying is that there is no point in just dealing Torres and a 1st to Boston for Stuart when in 3 months the guy won't be here and we'll have a lot less to work with. I'm not underestimating Torres, the whole thing started with me just trying to make a deal that made sense for the Panthers to want to do and didn't hurt us to the extent that while we improved one area we greatly diminished another. Oh by the way people, IT'S ALL HYPOTHETICAL!

Zach and Slater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2007, 06:59 AM
  #21
Meanashell11
Registered User
 
Meanashell11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Greenwich CT
Country: United States
Posts: 2,095
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral View Post
You are greatly overvaluing what a defenceman like Van Ryn would be worth if Florida decides to move him. Here's the thing I find funny: You're trying to be more "realistic" with your trade offer yet it's even more unrealistic than some of the more homer-ish ideas around here. Don't accuse others of being homers and creating "lowball" offers when your proposal is even more unrealistic and ridiculous.

Yup, agreed.

Meanashell11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2007, 07:02 AM
  #22
quat
winsome, loathsome
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Victoria BC
Posts: 9,566
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to quat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Gold View Post
I don't have one problem with this, but these fans that I'm going tooth and nail with also want to make the playoffs and we most likely won't without an upgrade on the blueline this season. I'm in the minority who thinks that we SHOULD rebuild, and we SHOULDN'T pay this steep of a price when guys like Van Ryn will be much cheaper on draft day....but most want to make the playoffs and all I'm saying is that there is no point in just dealing Torres and a 1st to Boston for Stuart when in 3 months the guy won't be here and we'll have a lot less to work with. I'm not underestimating Torres, the whole thing started with me just trying to make a deal that made sense for the Panthers to want to do and didn't hurt us to the extent that while we improved one area we greatly diminished another. Oh by the way people, IT'S ALL HYPOTHETICAL!
Fair enough. I wonder if, as I'm certain Lowe must be doing, looking at teams that might benifit from the players the Oilers would be willing to give up.

Torres strikes me as a guy who plays better in the post season, and a team like the Sens might have a defenceman that they could let go to improve their forwards.

I think you right about going after a player that is signed from more than the rest of this season, and I'm guessing that may be where Lowe may be willing to spend more.

The fact that no trade has been made to date, and given the obvious need for a defenceman or two, I'm guessing that teams are simply asking waaaay too much, and hoping GM's doing the shopping will panic and overpay.

The Oilers are in a bit of a bind here, in that they almost need to trade to insure they make the playoffs. These next two games against the Canucks will be very telling for the team. I'm willing to bet that Lowe is pushing extremely hard for his team to win both games. If they lose both, they are in a world of hurt and Lowe will be even further behind the eight ball.

I wonder if Phoenix wouldn't be a good place to shop?

quat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2007, 07:11 AM
  #23
SickMonkey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 394
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Gold View Post
.
.
.

This won't convince you I realize that I'm just showing you my reasoning for this, I'm trying to be a realist yet wanting to get the RIGHT guy in here, and yet I'm getting punished from one side and the other because nobody wants to pay for a guy that is of value.
You're right, you won't convince me, but I won't convince you either, so I'll stop trying. We fundamentally disagree on Mike Ryn's value, and whether his aquisition would actually make our team stronger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Gold View Post
And notice I didn't take a grammer cheap shot at you like you did at me, honestly man the words are there weather they're 8 miles apart or joined together, you did read it didn't you...
Where was the grammar cheapshot that you passed up? Seriously, I'm curious. I'm usually pretty conscientious with my grammar (not so much with my spelling), so if I missed something, please humour me and tell me what it was.

And no, I didn't read it. I read most of it, but I had to stop because the blood emanating from my pupils was getting distracting. Seriously, for most people it makes a really big difference. I could write all my posts like this and since "all the words are there", it shouldn't matter... Except that nobody wants to read this seizure inducing style for very long, so I will not get much readership.

This is a message board. You post because you want people to read what you write. If you write in a way that is pleasing to the majority of people, more people will read it. YouCanContinueToWriteLongRamblingParagraphsOrJustW riteLikeThisAllInOneWordIfYouWantICantStopYou, but as friendly advice, I suggest that you spend some quality time with your Enter key.

I've said my piece. End of lecture.

SickMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2007, 09:43 AM
  #24
Lanny MacDonald*
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Tuvalu
Posts: 4,457
vCash: 500
Ari is correct in one regard, that if the Oilers want a defender that will around long term they will have to over-pay to get one, especially at this time of the year when so many teams are still in the hunt. The best move would be to wait until the summer and see what is available and try to work out a deal then, when teams are more willing to move an asset that might be replaced through free agency.

To the package offered, I don't see that being a very attractive package, nor an over payment. It's a collection of pieces, and quantity does not equal quality. The one serious asset being offered is Torres, and he is a top end third line energy guy to a middling second liner with solid antagonism skills. He's not the type of player a team is going to consider as a center piece in a deal for an important cog like a #1 defenseman. MAB is bottom end defenseman that is mistake prone and defensively weak. His inclusion is not going to make teams want to jump at a deal, most are going to look at him and wonder where he is going to fit on their team. Most teams do not have space for a smallish, defensively suspect, PP specialist on their blueline. That's a cold hard fact, which makes him difficult to shop around. Winchester is a toss in and is a roster space issue for most teams. He's coming up 26 and has yet to establish himself as a bonified NHLer (a full season under his belt). The first round pick become less attractive when you place the 2008 draft year on it. The inclusion of a #1 defenseman on the Oilers is obviously going to improve the team, and drive the value of the draft pick down. The team receiving the draft pick is taking the risk on the draft pick in the first place, now they are receiving a commodity that is likely a deminishing asset. To add to that, a first round pick, late in the draft, is likely to take 3-5 years to develop. Add on a year for the futures pick, and you have a player 4-6 years off. Again, a team is going to trade something of value away only if there is the potential to improve the team in the forseeable future. So Florida gives up one of their top pair defensemen, and what do they get back? An energy guy and some spare parts. Do you think Edmonton would be willing to move Greene for Weiss, Montador, Kolnick and a 2nd and 3rd round picks? Even though the ceiling on Weiss is much higher than Torres, I don't see any way you do that. The package is not substantial enough to cough up a player that is important to your immediate team, and will not help you much down the line.

Lanny MacDonald* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2007, 10:08 AM
  #25
Spartacles
Registered User
 
Spartacles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: GP
Country: Canada
Posts: 288
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Spartacles
MAB, Torres, Winnie, Our 08 1st rounder and this year's 3rd.

I say add Horton to that deal, and change the first round pick to this years draft and I would do it. Maybe add a prospect like MAP or Jaques and take out the third.

Spartacles is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:18 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.