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Shanahan rips refs for Jagr treatment

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Old
02-01-2007, 12:37 PM
  #51
Fotiu22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
You just contradicted yourself. Of course he's frustrated, that's why he's showing bias. None of us would be complaining if we were up 2-1 and that call was made on the Leafs in the final seconds.
again,...completely missing the point. Of course I wouldn't complain if the call was on the leafs, but I wouldn't DENY that it was a weak call either. Denying that it was a weak call is, in itself, weak. Pointing out that it was a weak call does not mean that someone is biased either. If i saw that same call against the Islanders (who I obviously hate) I would still think it was a weak call... so where is the bias? Or is hoping for consistent enforcement from referees considered bias? Or just generally anyone who has a different opinion than you is bias?

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02-01-2007, 12:56 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Can you blame Brendan for being furious after the game?









Yeah exactly. Part of him going off has to be plain old frustration. He's never been known as a cry baby from what I know of him and he may even have a point but I think losing in a close game that was important just wore on him a little.

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Old
02-01-2007, 01:00 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesG1221 View Post
Yeah exactly. Part of him going off has to be plain old frustration. He's never been known as a cry baby from what I know of him and he may even have a point but I think losing in a close game that was important just wore on him a little.
Exactly, Shanahan is no crybaby. He's been in the league for nearly 20 years and has probably seen and done just about everything. And he's a warrior and wants to win as his career winds down (although I can't see him hanging the skates up for a while yet).

Bottom line, the game is emotional. He was probably still sweaty from the game when he went off like that. You lose a big game, it's a close game and the refs did a terrible job...who knows how this game could affect the standings come April? He got annoyed.

It's just like the Ladanian Tomlinson thing after the playoff game. Maybe he didn't react as "you're supposed to", but I don't blame him one bit. It's an emotional game and sometimes you say things you may regret. Even if he's wrong, I agree with where he is coming from.

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Old
02-01-2007, 01:01 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Fotiu22 View Post
again,...completely missing the point. Of course I wouldn't complain if the call was on the leafs, but I wouldn't DENY that it was a weak call either. Denying that it was a weak call is, in itself, weak. Pointing out that it was a weak call does not mean that someone is biased either. If i saw that same call against the Islanders (who I obviously hate) I would still think it was a weak call... so where is the bias? Or is hoping for consistent enforcement from referees considered bias? Or just generally anyone who has a different opinion than you is bias?
Taken in the context of the rule, it was not a weak call. Cullen took his hand off of his stick and reached out to hold up Pohl as they were both going for the puck. And yes, he did hold him up. You can see on the replay that Pohl's shoulder was pulled back, slowing him down.

Now I'm not denying that it was weak when taken in the context of what the Leafs were getting away with. But you can't say that Cullen didn't break the rule.

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Old
02-01-2007, 01:18 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Evilo View Post
I'm not sure.
What you see is that there's probably no treatment for anyone.

Pens fans cried because Crosby didn't get a special treatment, Caps fans do the same with Ovechkin.

The other day, Blake clearly speared Crosby for no reason. He didn't get a suspension.

I think what happens to Jagr happens to everyone.
Please do not include Ovechkin and Jagr, with the extremely talented, but whining ***** that is Crosby! We've all seen with our own eyes since early last season that Crosby likes to complain to the on ice officials ala Lemieux quite often. AO and JJ just keep on playing their games for the most part and fight through the rough stuff and holds instead of crying to the referee every shift . Crosby is already in their heads at this point, much like Mario was, and not too much is not called unless it really isn't seen in his case. If Jagr and OVY dived every time they were harrased, they'd get a ton more calls than they do, but they are the type of players who just power through and fight off the contact to get where they need to go, and it costs them somewhat for playing that type of game.

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Old
02-01-2007, 01:51 PM
  #56
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A couple of thoughts:

Pohl was not held up, he slowed up going into the corner to attempt to sheild Cullen from the puck. Cullen tapped him on the left shoulder in an attempt to put him off balance... which didn't work. The spirit of the rule isn't about the action, it is about the result. You are only supposed to call the infractions if they have an impact on the play. 90 seconds to go in the 3rd is a poor time to call a play with a miniscule impact if any impact at all. If Pohl wanted to get to the puck first he would have. Cullen did do something but its a faggy call.

If they were going to call it as tight as they did in the last 90 seconds, they should have layed out a ton of penalties for that Prucha/Sundin/Ponikarovsky scrum. Sundin shoved, Prucha shoved and Antropov shoved. Only Prucha gets the call. Ponikarovsky punched and no one else did and yet no call. I'm not crying bias or conspiracy but that is a ticky-tack call with the sole purpose of evening things up. Our PP was working last night and that call could have prevented a pp goal, who knows... maybe not.

And I don't see how Prucha is wrong here. He resonded with the same amount of force as what was visited upon him. It's reasonable for him to assume that what he did would not draw the only penalty. The entire Leafs team was taking liberties with him all night, hits after the whistle and high hits. I commend Prucha for standing up for himself and not backing down from intimidation. It was clearly part of the Leafs gameplan last night.

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02-01-2007, 02:02 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugerya View Post
A couple of thoughts:

Pohl was not held up, he slowed up going into the corner to attempt to sheild Cullen from the puck. Cullen tapped him on the left shoulder in an attempt to put him off balance... which didn't work. The spirit of the rule isn't about the action, it is about the result. You are only supposed to call the infractions if they have an impact on the play. 90 seconds to go in the 3rd is a poor time to call a play with a miniscule impact if any impact at all. If Pohl wanted to get to the puck first he would have. Cullen did do something but its a faggy call.
That seems pretty presumptuous of you to admit that Cullen put his hand on Pohl's shoulder and that Pohl slowed down, yet claim that it was because Pohl tried to slow down.

Quote:
If they were going to call it as tight as they did in the last 90 seconds, they should have layed out a ton of penalties for that Prucha/Sundin/Ponikarovsky scrum. Sundin shoved, Prucha shoved and Antropov shoved. Only Prucha gets the call. Ponikarovsky punched and no one else did and yet no call. I'm not crying bias or conspiracy but that is a ticky-tack call with the sole purpose of evening things up. Our PP was working last night and that call could have prevented a pp goal, who knows... maybe not.
No argument here. I've been saying on that one that the refs botched it and that the calls were unbalanced in favor of the Leafs all game.

Quote:
And I don't see how Prucha is wrong here. He resonded with the same amount of force as what was visited upon him. It's reasonable for him to assume that what he did would not draw the only penalty. The entire Leafs team was taking liberties with him all night, hits after the whistle and high hits. I commend Prucha for standing up for himself and not backing down from intimidation. It was clearly part of the Leafs gameplan last night.
Again, it was unfair, but this has happened multiple times already this season, where the Rangers participate in mutual pushing and shoving after drawing a penalty and end up with the short end of the stick by having a PP negated. I'm all for standing up for yourself, but pick and choose your battles. If the refs are going to do that, as they have all season long, then you have to learn from it.

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Old
02-01-2007, 02:06 PM
  #58
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Yeah as a leaf fan i agree the calls were kind of one sided favouring the Leafs. To be honest the Cullen penalty was questionable.

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Old
02-01-2007, 02:35 PM
  #59
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im one of the few who call the bias both ways when i see it.
id say the reffing has been, this year about

60% completely unbiased 10% biased in favor of the Rangers and 30% biased against the Rangers.

it happens, and im not so sure Jagr gets as much tugs comparitively as other stars do, its just that they arent called as often is all.

Jagr though does a lot of illegal stuff himself, and doesnt pay for it nearly as often as he should. so i think the preferential treatment does help him in that aspect though.

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02-01-2007, 02:38 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
im one of the few who call the bias both ways when i see it.
id say the reffing has been, this year about

60% completely unbiased 10% biased in favor of the Rangers and 30% biased against the Rangers.

it happens, and im not so sure Jagr gets as much tugs comparitively as other stars do, its just that they arent called as often is all.

Jagr though does a lot of illegal stuff himself, and doesnt pay for it nearly as often as he should. so i think the preferential treatment does help him in that aspect though.
don't you think your evaluation of your ability to be un-biased may, in fact, be biased itself?

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02-01-2007, 02:41 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Fotiu22 View Post
don't you think your evaluation of your ability to be un-biased may, in fact, be biased itself?
lol

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Old
02-01-2007, 02:44 PM
  #62
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The NHL didn't fine Shanahan.You can't fine him because he was speaking the truth

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=194503&hubname=

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Old
02-01-2007, 04:40 PM
  #63
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Not sure if this was posted, but...

here's Scott Burnside adding his two cents regarding Shanny's outburst, thinking it's more a result of the Rangers' position in the standings than anything else...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/column...ott&id=2750602

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Old
02-01-2007, 04:46 PM
  #64
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the difference here is shanahan is use to red wing treatment which is almost as good as being a devil. Now he is on a team where the refs have been biased towards us since kovalev came up.

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02-01-2007, 04:47 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Fotiu22 View Post
don't you think your evaluation of your ability to be un-biased may, in fact, be biased itself?


dunno, but i will say this, the majority of the games (not the vast majority mind you) have either been unbiased totally, or have been only marginally biased in either direction. last night though was not one of those occasions. as was the previous game (in our favor)

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02-01-2007, 04:49 PM
  #66
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One interesting comment...

from the article:

"Just for fun, we looked at the Rangers' power-play opportunities this season. As of Thursday morning, the Rangers ranked 18th in power-play opportunities. A season ago, when the Rangers were the darling of the NHL and headed to the playoffs for the first time since 1997, they finished 26th in power-play opportunities. Where was the prejudice Shanahan speaks of then? Where were the Rangers' cries of outrage then?"

Didn't we talk about this last season too? I think what Burnside is missing is that the Rangers didn't have the vocal leader they have in Shanahan. One of my beefs with hockey reporters is that too often they know too little about teams or situations and really talk from the hip. There's very few, if any, who have in depth knowledge of more than a handful of teams, if that many, let alone 30 teams.

Anyways, I thought that to be interesting.

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02-01-2007, 04:55 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
here's Scott Burnside adding his two cents regarding Shanny's outburst, thinking it's more a result of the Rangers' position in the standings than anything else...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/column...ott&id=2750602
If the Rangers get into the playoffs then he will saying how he knew it all along right.

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Old
02-01-2007, 04:59 PM
  #68
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The reason crosby is protected because whenever someone touches him, he *****es and moans until the refs cant take it anymore and just say ok ok

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02-01-2007, 05:16 PM
  #69
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That's it, Marty...

it is frustrating when you have a guy like Jagr, who really doesn't go down often, and who can be held, crosschecked, hooked, or whatever, and because he's so strong, won't go down. It's tough for some defenders. I think I remember Chara tapping Krog who went flying - you hit 500 other guys in the league like that and nothing happens. I don't think we'll ever see equality in penalties. It's a shame because it hurts the game too ofte.

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02-01-2007, 05:55 PM
  #70
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Shanny was right, to voice his opinion, but good teams do their talking on the ice with goals. NY puts themselves and the outcome of the game in the refs hands, many times, and that's a crap shoot. The refs have been poor most of the season, and the team will have to learn to adjust to it. Renney should be the one to address the refs more, instead of just scratching his head on most nights.

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02-01-2007, 06:09 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clmetsfan View Post
That seems pretty presumptuous of you to admit that Cullen put his hand on Pohl's shoulder and that Pohl slowed down, yet claim that it was because Pohl tried to slow down.
I don't see how it's presumptuous. When the play is going into the corner and the puck chase is close to 50/50, the defender almost always slows up and tries to establish position. Just look at the play and you barely see any reaction from Pohl after Cullen touches his shoulder. You will also see Pohl slowing up before Cullen touches him.

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02-01-2007, 06:21 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
from the article:

"Just for fun, we looked at the Rangers' power-play opportunities this season. As of Thursday morning, the Rangers ranked 18th in power-play opportunities. A season ago, when the Rangers were the darling of the NHL and headed to the playoffs for the first time since 1997, they finished 26th in power-play opportunities. Where was the prejudice Shanahan speaks of then? Where were the Rangers' cries of outrage then?"

Didn't we talk about this last season too? I think what Burnside is missing is that the Rangers didn't have the vocal leader they have in Shanahan. One of my beefs with hockey reporters is that too often they know too little about teams or situations and really talk from the hip. There's very few, if any, who have in depth knowledge of more than a handful of teams, if that many, let alone 30 teams.

Anyways, I thought that to be interesting.
You're of course assuming that a journalist do research for his stories, a trait that is becoming increasingly less common these days.

I'm going on 29 this year and I can see the difference from when I was in college 10 years ago.

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Old
02-01-2007, 07:01 PM
  #73
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i would not have complained cause now the refs may work against you...just my thought but i do believe shanahan makes a good point

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02-01-2007, 09:20 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian89 View Post
Shanny said it was a legit call.
But most Rangers fans say it wasn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_L View Post
Yeah as a leaf fan i agree the calls were kind of one sided favouring the Leafs. To be honest the Cullen penalty was questionable.
Just to show that it's not just Ranger fans who look at it as questionable. Also, I watched the game with a Penguins fan who certainly has no love for the Rangers and he said it was a bad call even before I did. I think you are as biased as anyone else.

By the way, if the positions were reversed I would've been thankful for the PP oppurtunity, but would've scoffed at the call anyway. It simply wasn't a penalty. Cullen shoved at Pohl on the way by him to break his stride and because he was skating past him, since Pohl was slowing down and Cullen was going at full speed, it looked momentarily as if he wrapped his arm around him. Either way, someone brought up a good point... most penalties (aside from roughing penalties) shouldn't be about what a player's action is, or what they are attempting to do, those penalties are about the result of the action. If a player isn't interefered with (like Pohl truly wasn't), then there should be no penalty. Same idea with a high stick... a player doesn't get called for having his stick up high unless it hits an opposing player.

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Old
02-01-2007, 09:27 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty30 View Post
The reason crosby is protected because whenever someone touches him, he *****es and moans until the refs cant take it anymore and just say ok ok
Exactly. Jagr just isn't that type of person. After all, it took Shanahan to actually speak out about this. Jaromir tried to downplay it.

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