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Old
02-01-2007, 11:14 AM
  #26
monster_bertuzzi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchieIsGod View Post
you guys should deffinetly get more for him than boyes, from the sound of it he can be had for a pick...why not try to trade him for a deal involving montoya, that could solve the issue in net
The Canucks are more than willing to deal Schneider and a 1st round pick for Horton.

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02-01-2007, 11:20 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by PanthersHockey View Post
Let me be quick to add if this is the route horton wants to take, trade his $%% we dont need that type of player in this organization, especially with the situation we are in right now- its NOT what we need. Sorry horty but i cant look at you the same, you rat.

He's not worthy enough to hold the title of 'rat'!

Horton has been lazy on the ice for the last two years. One of my original posts on this board was complaining about his unmet potential.

That said, nothing would irk me more than to see him get traded to a "winning" team without paying his dues. Three years does not dues make.

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02-01-2007, 11:21 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Georgia Panther View Post
an exchange of headaches with Columbus is a likely scenario with Horton going and Zherdev coming. And is it too late to send DQD, the I love to trade down from the Top Pick so much I did it 3 times Guy, a special bouquet to show our love for rating Horton over Stahl enabling him to trade down two picks to select Mr. I Want Out Of Here Besides Wanting A Lot Of Money For Not Doing Much Horton?
LOL - if Nate thinks Martin is tough wait until he's met General Hitchcock.

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02-01-2007, 11:22 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by PanthersHockey View Post
from eklund, ok its eklund but atleast its some INFO


he says Vancouver and Boston are front runners and that Vancouver supposedly REALLY looking to buy

Reports are that Horton wants out of Florida and although my sources say those reports are being over sold, I still must admit that Horton's name has come up in more and more of my discussions with the "inner circle" of the rumor world. This morning, I just got off the phone with a Western Canadien source who has told me that there is interest from several teams wioth Boston and Vancouver leading the way. Vancouver looks like definite buyers right now.



http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=5162

Please....no. Anywhere but Vancouver.

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02-01-2007, 11:25 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Happy Girl View Post
LOL - if Nate thinks Martin is tough wait until he's met General Hitchcock.
That isn't always the reason you don't like a coach.

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02-01-2007, 11:28 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Boston View Post
That isn't always the reason you don't like a coach.
Really - that could be why I used "LOL" and "if."

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Old
02-01-2007, 11:36 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
I agree. Then again, Nate is still young and (from what I read between the lines at JM's State of the Panthers Address) a bit immature. This may just be a temper tantrum. Hopefully Orr has straightened him out.

BTW, does anyone know what kind of picks we would get if #16 is signed to a RFA offer sheet.

Under $660,000 - None
Over $660,000 to $1 Million - Third Round Pick
$1 Million to $2 Million - Second Round Pick
$2 Million to $3 Million - First and Third Round Picks
$3 Million to $4 Million - First, Second and Third Round Picks
$4 Million to $5 Million - Two First Round Picks, a Second and a Third Round Pick
Over $5 Million - Four First Round Picks

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Old
02-01-2007, 11:42 AM
  #33
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Look at the data (below). Horton sees that's he's #2/3 in scoring on the team, with a +7. He makes $1.1M this season. Of all players on the team he's in one of the most disproportionate situations (pay versus production), which is why the cards are in his favor. It's not hard to imagine what he wants with a new contract. 1) More money, 2) Postseason success.

I say the Panthers should try to hang onto him. His worth is somewhere near/over Salei ($2.775M) based on this season. And I think Salei has earned his money. If it's true that he's got serious problems with management/JM, that's a complication, but not really insurmountable.

Cohen needs to show the team that money will be spent to get the right players, and Horton needs to be given a fair offer.

=========

RK Player Pos Team GP G A P +/-
1 OLLI JOKINEN C FLA 52 22 30 52 0
2 NATHAN HORTON C FLA 52 15 23 38 7
3 JOZEF STUMPEL C FLA 51 13 25 38 -7

Allen $1,550,000.00
Auld $1,475,000.00
Belfour $750,000.00
Bertuzzi $5,269,080.00
Booth $500,000.00
Bouwmeester $2,100,000.00
Campbell $475,000.00
Gelinas $975,000.00
Gratton $1,500,000.00
Horton $1,100,000.00
Jokinen $5,000,000.00
Kolnik $950,000.00
Kwiatkowski $500,000.00
Mezei $800,000.00
Montador $500,000.00
Nieuwendyk $2,250,000.00
Olesz $984,200.00
Peltonen $795,000.00
Roberts $2,250,000.00
Salei $2,775,000.00
Stewart $684,000.00
Stumpel $1,750,000.00
Van Ryn $1,700,000.00
Weiss $900,000.00

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Old
02-01-2007, 11:55 AM
  #34
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Fair enough but he's jumping the gun. Who's to say they don't offer him a good contract this summer? Remember, RFAs are a priority that I'm quite sure Martin is aware of and he'll look to get them done ASAP. In the past, the Panthers have taken too long on this. But I don't think it's unreasonable to think he'll get a nice raise. So I continue to be baffled at why he thinks he'll be shafted. Yes it's still Cohen, but Cohen also OKed $5 million for Olli and $6 million or so for Luongo.

A real key would to be to get guys under contract for MORE than a year. That is always such a pain. So sick of 1 year contracts. We are lucky that Bouwmeester didn't just go through arbitration, but that he got a 2 year contract and not a 1 year so we don't have to deal with that this offseason. I think it's pretty clear that players like Weiss and Horton need to be locked down for several years at this point and stop messing around.

Has Horton even gotten an offer from the Panthers? Shouldn't he wait to see what they give him before he just throws his into the pot? Horton's got way less control over this situation than he thinks he does.

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Old
02-01-2007, 11:55 AM
  #35
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If we will get rid of Horton after this year, why not have talks with the Sharks and see if we cant work out some sort of package this way we can get Toskala or Nabokov. Just a thought.

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Old
02-01-2007, 11:59 AM
  #36
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So long Horton!

This organization is a joke

Will be interesting to see who rips us off this time. My bet Mike Fisher + 2nd rounder for Horton


Last edited by Mogo: 02-01-2007 at 12:15 PM.
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Old
02-01-2007, 12:09 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthers Rock View Post
Fair enough but he's jumping the gun.
That's OK. So are we

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Old
02-01-2007, 12:21 PM
  #38
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A new thread now exists for trade proposals. Use that instead of this. This thread shall now be strictly for discussing the Horton situation and any discussion of his play and/or attitude.

There, that ought to help contain the spam and ridiculous proposals

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Old
02-01-2007, 12:34 PM
  #39
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Panthers Rock is dead on. I also feel what HG is feeling - torn. I don't want a 21 year old malcontent who's dating a playboy model here if he doesn't want to be a part of building this team from the ground up. He makes a lot of money for a kid and has the glam girlfriend, so like Bobby Orr told him: shut up and just play hockey. Good for Bobby!

However, I do see Horton not liking Martin's defense first system. Horton is not the true power forward Keenan envisioned. He's more of a sniper that has the body of a PF. So if we can trade him for another similar type player (Boyes, Ryder, whoever...) I'd be sad to see Horts go, but I'm far too used to it from this organization.

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Old
02-01-2007, 12:54 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
Sounds like Orr told him to stop whining and play harder. You aren't winning? Do something about it.
That's exactly what I thought after reading this article.

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Old
02-01-2007, 01:00 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by RatmanReturns View Post
That's exactly what I thought after reading this article.
Me too. I mean, he, like Louie did, has basically called out his teammates by saying this team isn't a winner (which is true right now, it's not) and instead of doing anything about it, he gets benched, moved down to the 4th line, etc. Luongo at least never got benched due to poor play. If you want this team to be a winner, play harder yourself, instead of calling out your teammates.

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02-01-2007, 01:06 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnoughExcuses View Post
A new thread now exists for trade proposals. Use that instead of this. This thread shall now be strictly for discussing the Horton situation and any discussion of his play and/or attitude.

There, that ought to help contain the spam and ridiculous proposals
Most of the trade proposal posts have been migrated to that thread.

So, now there's no excuse for responding to trade posts on this thread.

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02-01-2007, 01:07 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Me too. I mean, he, like Louie did, has basically called out his teammates by saying this team isn't a winner (which is true right now, it's not) and instead of doing anything about it, he gets benched, moved down to the 4th line, etc. Luongo at least never got benched due to poor play. If you want this team to be a winner, play harder yourself, instead of calling out your teammates.
Well, he's young and brash...too bad he doesn't bring that brashness to the ice every single night.

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02-01-2007, 01:13 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by RatmanReturns View Post
Well, he's young and brash...too bad he doesn't bring that brashness to the ice every single night.
I agree. I just like how this has become public. Way for a young brash kid who's apparently slightly immature and has spent the majority of his career to this point on the IR to call out his teammates. How'd this get out?

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02-01-2007, 01:16 PM
  #45
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You know it is getting bad, when even the core you are building around wants out.

I love Horton and his game, but his personality/character doesn't seem to be particularly great. I dunno, i'd still try and keep him here but if it is really obvious that he wants to go, then trade him.

Wow, if Horton goes, think how absolutely pathetic our 2003 draft was. It may turn out to be the best draft ever, and what the hell did we get from it with 4 picks in the top two rounds?

I really thinking we need to get a new scouting staff. Some of our picks are awful.

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02-01-2007, 01:20 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Wow, if Horton goes, think how absolutely pathetic our 2003 draft was. It may turn out to be the best draft ever, and what the hell did we get from it with 4 picks in the top two rounds?
Wasn't Dudley the GM at the time?

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02-01-2007, 01:21 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
I really thinking we need to get a new scouting staff. Some of our picks are awful.
That's true, but consider this. How does the Panthers scouting staff size & budget compare to other teams? If our scouting staff budget is equivalent to our minor league system (and let's face it - there's no reason to think otherwise), we have an obvious explanation.

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02-01-2007, 01:29 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
That's true, but consider this. How does the Panthers scouting staff size & budget compare to other teams? If our scouting staff budget is equivalent to our minor league system (and let's face it - there's no reason to think otherwise), we have an obvious explanation.
Our scouting is terrible. 2002 draft - Apart from Jay Bouwmeester, who lets be honest, anybody could realise he has talent, the draft sucked. Taticek, Globke etc. Bad draft in reality. Picking in an amazing top 4, we got lucky.

2003 - Meyer, Kreps in the 2nd round. Guys like Bergeron, Weber, O'sullivan went in that round. Awful. Stewart, not looking good. Horton, well we've made him unhappy. Picking top 3, not hard to find a good player. Again, bad scouting

2004 - Olesz, love the dude. Solid pick, but picking at #7 and picking Olesz who fell due to WJ's and playing ina difficult league, again not that hard a pick to make. The rest look meh. Shantz might be alright, but again we cannot draft for the hell of it in later rounds

2005 - McArdle will be solid, but not spectacular. Plante/Collins interesting, but again the chances of them being regulars aren't very high.

2006 - Frolik, good pick i'll give them credit. But then drafting people like Peter Aston? Absolutely awful.

Our prospect system is very bad, we may have had top prospects graduating early, but that just shows after our original top pick, we don't draft well. To have LaPoint, an 18 yr old in the USHL as your best D prospect tells you something. Apart from Frolik, we have no forward of realistic 2nd line potential, with Collins etc having outside shots.

I have no idea what our expenditure of scouting is, but either way IMO it is a serious problem.

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02-01-2007, 01:38 PM
  #49
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Don't give them too much credit for Frolik - he fell from 5th and every fantasy draft out there pretty much had him going to the Panthers or one spot before them.

Thing is, I did an assessment of the Panthers' drafting either last summer or the one before and posted it here. The Panthers actually draft NHLers at about a 20-25% rate. Problem is, most of them are on other teams by the time they make the NHL.

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02-01-2007, 01:43 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnoughExcuses View Post
Don't give them too much credit for Frolik - he fell from 5th and every fantasy draft out there pretty much had him going to the Panthers or one spot before them.

Thing is, I did an assessment of the Panthers' drafting either last summer or the one before and posted it here. The Panthers actually draft NHLers at about a 20-25% rate. Problem is, most of them are on other teams by the time they make the NHL.
Well, in recent times our drafting leaves alot to be desired, especially considering the amount of picks we have had. I agree, Frolik wasn't a hard pick to make, and although he was the right pick he may not turn out well.

Im guessing alot of those players wern't impact at all though.

If we had a decent scouting staff, we wouldn't be in the mess we are now. No team should be drafting in the top ten (Would have been in 2005 if we hadn't been screwed) for 6 years (Im counting this year).

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