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RE-DO the 2004 First Round...

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Old
02-04-2007, 09:51 AM
  #26
Stealth JD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jin View Post
How is Cory Schneider dropping on some people's lists? Having taken the time to see all the first round goalies and Pogge live, I would say that Schneider is the best goalie taken. I would even say that its not really all that close either.
Playing solid in the NCAA on a good team is nice and all.....but Al Montoya and Marek Schwarz are all-stars in the AHL. I'd still take both before Schneider, even though he looks good in BC.

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02-04-2007, 10:58 AM
  #27
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Malkin should not be above Ovechkin. Malkin is a great player, and I truly believe he is what the hockey gods imagined when they thought of a balance of Ovechkin and Crosby (Ovechkin will have more goals, Crosby more assists, Malkin will be inbetween both of them in each category), but by no means is he a better player than Ovie Ocho. Ovie is better overall in every area of the game, not just scoring. Physical play. Two-way play. Etc. etc. etc.

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02-04-2007, 11:08 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Jackmans Domain View Post
Playing solid in the NCAA on a good team is nice and all.....but Al Montoya and Marek Schwarz are all-stars in the AHL. I'd still take both before Schneider, even though he looks good in BC.
Speaking of Al Montoya, how is he dropping 5-10 spots on EVERY redraft? All he's done since being drafted is live up to his potential. I know it's tough to compare goalies to skaters, but I doubt Montoya drops.

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Old
02-04-2007, 12:22 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kowalchuk View Post
1. Ovechkin
2. Malkin
3. Wolski
4. Meszaros
5. Radulov
6. Zajac
7. Olesz
8. Barker
9. Green
10. Ladd
11. Stafford
12. Smid
13. Campoli
14. Boyd

15. Montoya
16. Edler
17. Soderberg
18. Goligoski
19. Santorelli
20. Sekera
21. Greiss
22. Tukonen
23. Brouwer
24. Grabovsky
25. Walter
26. Schremp
27. Schwarz
28. Wheeler
29. Picard
30. Krejci
Boyd and CAMPOLI ahead of Montoya!??! LAUGHABLE!

Holy **** is Montoya underrated on this board.

I CANNOT fathom how anyone could possibly justify taking Chris freaking Campoli over Al Montoya.

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Old
02-04-2007, 12:32 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Jon Prescription View Post
Boyd and CAMPOLI ahead of Montoya!??! LAUGHABLE!

Holy **** is Montoya underrated on this board.

I CANNOT fathom how anyone could possibly justify taking Chris freaking Campoli over Al Montoya.
Not to diss Montoya, but he has yet to prove he can be a starter in the NHL. The prospect graveyard is full of promising goaltenders that could never make it to the NHL.

It's always the old "What's better, a 3rd/4th line (or 3rd pair) player that plays in the NHL or a potential 1st/2nd liner that might never make it?". Obviously, opinions will differ on who you'd draft first.

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Old
02-04-2007, 12:35 PM
  #31
Mr Jiggyfly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boocock View Post
Malkin should not be above Ovechkin. Malkin is a great player, and I truly believe he is what the hockey gods imagined when they thought of a balance of Ovechkin and Crosby (Ovechkin will have more goals, Crosby more assists, Malkin will be inbetween both of them in each category), but by no means is he a better player than Ovie Ocho. Ovie is better overall in every area of the game, not just scoring. Physical play. Two-way play. Etc. etc. etc.
AO is not a better two way player than Malkin... there is just no way that is anywhere close to an accurate statement.

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02-04-2007, 12:56 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly> View Post
AO is not a better two way player than Malkin... there is just no way that is anywhere close to an accurate statement.
No, its true. Right now at least. Malkin isn't as good in his zone as Ovie is.

Ovie leads his team with 49 takeaways. Malkin leads his team with 27. Ovie also has exactly 100 more hits than Malkin.

Maybe next year, Geno will be a better two-way players than Ovie. But right now, Geno is still adjusting to the game and such.

So, yes, Mr Jiggyfly, that is a very accurate statement right now.

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Old
02-04-2007, 10:11 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Boocock View Post
No, its true. Right now at least. Malkin isn't as good in his zone as Ovie is.

Ovie leads his team with 49 takeaways. Malkin leads his team with 27. Ovie also has exactly 100 more hits than Malkin.

Maybe next year, Geno will be a better two-way players than Ovie. But right now, Geno is still adjusting to the game and such.

So, yes, Mr Jiggyfly, that is a very accurate statement right now.

Wow...that means that Ovechkin is better in his own zone than Lidstrom as well because he has about 10 times as many hits and twice as many takeaways as him?

Ovechkin for Norris.

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Old
02-04-2007, 10:28 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Darkside Cowboy View Post
Not to diss Montoya, but he has yet to prove he can be a starter in the NHL. The prospect graveyard is full of promising goaltenders that could never make it to the NHL.

It's always the old "What's better, a 3rd/4th line (or 3rd pair) player that plays in the NHL or a potential 1st/2nd liner that might never make it?". Obviously, opinions will differ on who you'd draft first.
yeah thats what i was going for, I tend to put the players actually in the NHL, to a player that may never make it. Campoli has been solid thus far in his young NHL career, its alot more than Montoya can say. To be quite honest, if I did my rankings completley based on potential, it would look much different.

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Old
02-05-2007, 04:09 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kowalchuk View Post
yeah thats what i was going for, I tend to put the players actually in the NHL, to a player that may never make it. Campoli has been solid thus far in his young NHL career, its alot more than Montoya can say. To be quite honest, if I did my rankings completley based on potential, it would look much different.
Campoli was a healthy scratch for half the year and couldn't even make the ****-tastic Islanders. He's been solid thus far? He had a decent year last year and has been a 6th/7th d-man this year.

Anyone that would even THINK of ranking a guy like that ahead of one of the brightest goalie prospects in the entire world is out of it.

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Old
02-05-2007, 04:10 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by aspin View Post
Mark my words, in 3-5 years all of you redoing this draft will have Dubnyk at least in the top 10 if not higher.

Agreed.

All the kid has done is work his tail off to get better. To drop him out of the first round is a joke. Neither of the other two first round goalies have done anything to warrant a higher ranking.

In a few years, Oilers fans will be having the last laugh...

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Old
02-05-2007, 04:27 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barfy2000 View Post
Wow...that means that Ovechkin is better in his own zone than Lidstrom as well because he has about 10 times as many hits and twice as many takeaways as him?

Ovechkin for Norris.
Just saying: Ovechkin is easily a better two-way player right now. Probably due to the fact that Ovie has more experience.

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02-05-2007, 06:31 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Boocock View Post
Just saying: Ovechkin is easily a better two-way player right now. Probably due to the fact that Ovie has more experience.
Easily? You could certainly make a case using those stats I am sure...but most knowledgeable hockey people will tell you without hesitation that Malkin is and probably always will be the better 2 way player. Watching games will tell you more than the stat sheet. Experience means nothing. Jordan Staal is almost unarguably better than both of them and hes only 18.

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Old
02-05-2007, 06:35 PM
  #39
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I'd take Zajac at #3, seriously.

And Grabovski was an overager, and it's not like he's an established player yet, NEVER in the 1st round (or we might end up having Mark Streit in the 1st round...)

Even though there's not denying he's probably Top-15 in usefulness so far.

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Old
02-05-2007, 07:05 PM
  #40
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I'll give it a try! (IMO, these are the players I'D choose in order, if I was a GM...some based on potential/upside not just who is IN the NHL NOW or closer to the NHL...).


1. Ovechkin
2. Malkin
3. Wolski
4. Meszaros
5. Radulov
6. Zajac
7. Olesz
8. Montoya
9. Ladd
10. Stafford
11. Barker
12. Smid
13. Campoli
14. Wheeler
15. Boyd
16. Schremp
17. Green
18. Thelen
19. Comeau
20. Picard
21. Emelin
22. Tukonen
23. Bolland
24. Schneider
25. Korpikoski
26. Schwarz
27. Goligoski
28. Edler
29. Grabovski
30. Chipchura


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 02-05-2007 at 08:06 PM.
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Old
02-05-2007, 07:07 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barfy2000 View Post
Easily? You could certainly make a case using those stats I am sure...but most knowledgeable hockey people will tell you without hesitation that Malkin is and probably always will be the better 2 way player. Watching games will tell you more than the stat sheet. Experience means nothing. Jordan Staal is almost unarguably better than both of them and hes only 18.
I have watched Ovie play. It is just my honest opinion that he is a better two-way player right now. Malkin is making strides, and he should be better at the end of the season. But I strongly believe Ovie is better than Malkin defensively right now.

Experience has a ton to do with it. The different rink size has affected Malkin's game all year. I can't wait for when it doesn't. And he is definitely making strides defensively. He may be better than Ovie at the end of the year. Ovie right now is just very solid in his zone.

And say what you will, the hits and the takeaways just show how good of a player he is.

And Jordan Staal is easily better than both of them right now defensively in my opinion. Great PK'er. He is perfect on Malkin's line since he covers the zone well.

By the way, this isn't bias. I'm a Penguins fan. I'm not an Ovie fan boy. I like watching him play because he is entertaining, but I don't worship him. It is just my opinion that Ovie is better defensively right now. Easily. Ovie just does more. He may not at the end of the year, when Malkin adjusts to the style of play. But, right now, Ovie is above him.

And by easily, I mean easily a difference. I never said Malkin wasn't good in his zone. He played very well defensively against the Capitals of all teams, actually. I just said Ovie was better right now.

That is what happens when Malkin switches from wing to center to wing to center to wing in his rookie year while he is still trying to learn English.

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Old
02-05-2007, 07:33 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfpack View Post
Agreed.

All the kid has done is work his tail off to get better. To drop him out of the first round is a joke. Neither of the other two first round goalies have done anything to warrant a higher ranking.

In a few years, Oilers fans will be having the last laugh...
-They were both starters for their country while Dubnyk was number two for one year.
-They are both in the AHL while Dubnyk is in the ECHL
-They are both posting great numbers in the AHL, so his Dubnyk in the ECHL
-Swarchz made it to the AHL all-star game

IMO, right now, they are both in front of Dubnyk.

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Old
02-05-2007, 07:42 PM
  #43
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I still can't believe Wolski fell that much in the draft because of that police charge against him and his "attitude problem". He turned out to be the third best player in the draft.

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Old
02-07-2007, 12:32 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Sakic's-A-Legend View Post
I still can't believe Wolski fell that much in the draft because of that police charge against him and his "attitude problem". He turned out to be the third best player in the draft.
He's 3rd on my list...

Look at the last 2 Draft Pick lists in this thread...Wolski is top 3 .

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Old
02-07-2007, 12:49 AM
  #45
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i see cam barker dropping on every list.

he's still #3 on mine behind ovechkin and malkin.

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02-07-2007, 12:58 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Prescription View Post
Campoli was a healthy scratch for half the year and couldn't even make the ****-tastic Islanders. He's been solid thus far? He had a decent year last year and has been a 6th/7th d-man this year.

Anyone that would even THINK of ranking a guy like that ahead of one of the brightest goalie prospects in the entire world is out of it.
Biases accounted for, Campoli was actually injured for most of the first 3rd of the season, thus he was not a "healthy scratch." He then spent a stint at the AHL to get up to speed, which led to his promotion to the NHL when injuries hit. In roughly 15 games this year he's a plus player and has a few points-- played solidly, yet unspectacular. You underrate him, though the poster who put him 12th overall overrates him. I'd say he'd fit near the end of the first round.

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02-07-2007, 01:00 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
I'd take Zajac at #3, seriously.

And Grabovski was an overager, and it's not like he's an established player yet, NEVER in the 1st round (or we might end up having Mark Streit in the 1st round...)

Even though there's not denying he's probably Top-15 in usefulness so far.
I'm not saying who I would take because every team has a different situation and system but Zajac would be a safe excellent pick at #3, people seem to underate his defensive awareness and maturity at such a young age. He is leading +- on the team at+9, only 7 players on the devils are a plus.

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Old
02-07-2007, 08:19 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BelovedIsles View Post
Biases accounted for, Campoli was actually injured for most of the first 3rd of the season, thus he was not a "healthy scratch." He then spent a stint at the AHL to get up to speed, which led to his promotion to the NHL when injuries hit. In roughly 15 games this year he's a plus player and has a few points-- played solidly, yet unspectacular. You underrate him, though the poster who put him 12th overall overrates him. I'd say he'd fit near the end of the first round.
imo he is to old to be considered a first round pick in this draft. he is two years older then every one else. so that means the guys someone here puts behind him has two years on him to develop. if he was two years younger he wouldn't have played in the nhl now. imo he deserves to move up to mid-late second round.

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Old
02-07-2007, 08:42 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Darkside Cowboy View Post
Not to diss Montoya, but he has yet to prove he can be a starter in the NHL. The prospect graveyard is full of promising goaltenders that could never make it to the NHL.

It's always the old "What's better, a 3rd/4th line (or 3rd pair) player that plays in the NHL or a potential 1st/2nd liner that might never make it?". Obviously, opinions will differ on who you'd draft first.
Someone please list all of the goalies who made it to the NHL by the age of 20. Then, from that list put together another list of guys who became starters in the NHL by the age of 20. (Hint: the first list is pretty short, the second is even shorter.)

The Rangers had Lundqvist, who is 4 years older and had established himself as a hell of a goaltender in Sweden since being drafted - and all he did was come into the NHL and go 30-12-4 with a 2.24 GAA and .922 save% in his first season here. (Yeah, there was also this "Olympic gold medal" that Lundqvist backstopped his country to, but that's probably irrelevant to the discussion.)

Yet some of you apparently believe that Montoya (who wasn't about to get thrown into the NHL to start his career), after 42 professional games total, should have been able to shove out Lundqvist this season, despite what Henrik accomplished.

: The constant, inexplicable "HE'S GOTTA BE A SUPERSTAR NOW!" chant here continues ...

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Old
02-07-2007, 09:21 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakic's-A-Legend View Post
I still can't believe Wolski fell that much in the draft because of that police charge against him and his "attitude problem". He turned out to be the third best player in the draft.
I think it's a bit early to make this declaration.....I'd bet in 3 more years we'll have a better idea of who the top 3, 5 & 10 players of this draft are.

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