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three playoff push proposals...

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Old
02-02-2007, 10:32 PM
  #1
Miller Time
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three playoff push proposals...

To Pho:
1st 07, 3rd 08, Samsonov

To Mtl:
Doan, Roenick

&

to vcr:
Ryder

to Mtl:
Elder or Krajicek

&
To Pitt
Bouillion, murray

to Mtl:
Ruutu


playoff line-up...


Higgins -Koivu- Doan
Latendresse-Pleks-Kovalev
Perez-Bonk- johnson
Begin-Roenick- Ruutu
streit, Lapierre

Markov-Komi
Souray-Rivet
Dandy-Krajicek/Elder
Niinimaa

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Old
02-02-2007, 10:33 PM
  #2
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Roenick ??????????????????


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Old
02-02-2007, 10:38 PM
  #3
ChuckyToGally
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We have no need of Roenick right now and if we want Doan, we'll have to pay more than that. Anyway, we better target Nagy since I think the Yotes will retain Doan.

I don't know much about Elder but Krajicek isn't enough for Ryder. The nucks would have to add something and I don't even know if I want him on my team.

I can't see how we're a better team with that.

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Old
02-02-2007, 10:45 PM
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Cyrrus147
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I don't want Jarko Ruutu in our lineup.

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Old
02-02-2007, 10:50 PM
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Old
02-02-2007, 10:50 PM
  #6
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Are you actually suggesting giving Roenick or Ruutuu a spot in the lineup over Streit?

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Old
02-02-2007, 11:01 PM
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To Pho:
2nd 07, Samsonov, Ryder, Abby

To Mtl:
Doan, Boynton
&

there fixed that

the other 2 are not happening, why would pittsburg give up some of their only grit when they need him for their playoff drive, yes you better beleive it, pitsburg is going to make the playoffs!

the trade with vancity dos not help us much

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Old
02-02-2007, 11:14 PM
  #8
ChuckyToGally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Are you actually suggesting giving Roenick or Ruutuu a spot in the lineup over Streit?
Over Lapierre too...

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Old
02-02-2007, 11:19 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habitants View Post
To Pho:
2nd 07, Samsonov, Ryder, Abby

To Mtl:
Doan, Boynton
&

there fixed that

the other 2 are not happening, why would pittsburg give up some of their only grit when they need him for their playoff drive, yes you better beleive it, pitsburg is going to make the playoffs!

the trade with vancity dos not help us much
Ok, let's make it clear. The Yotes don't need Samsonov and they're not gonna take his salary.

Abby is an UFA at the end of the season and I don't see how he could be useful to them this year since they're out of the playoff race.

We're now with Ryder and the 2nd. Change that to a 1st and they might consider trading Doan for it. It's overpayment but the guy is the team.

To MTL: Doan and Boynton

To PHO: Ryder, Chipchura, O'Byrne and 1st

You won't like it but they would ask a lot for those players.

If the Habs want to try something, they better target Nagy. Kost and a pick might do it.

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Old
02-03-2007, 03:56 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Are you actually suggesting giving Roenick or Ruutuu a spot in the lineup over Streit?

I'd take streit any day over roenick and ruutu, lapierre too!

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Old
02-03-2007, 06:27 AM
  #11
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I've seen worst proposals than that, but...

I don't think Vancouver will trade Edler... looks like the guy has become an amazing prospect for them and many posters think he's going to be better than Bourdon. Krajicek? Bof...

Nothing against Doan, I'd like him a lot.. but Roenick??? no way... I'd prefer having Samsonov's salary than trading him for Roenick, even if Roenick's gone at the end of the year. There's no way I would like to ruin this season with Roenick.

Ruutu? After what happened at the last game, I don't think we'll trade with the Pens for their pest lol.

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Old
02-03-2007, 06:54 AM
  #12
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First proposal seems best of them, but we have no use for Roenick and I bet Coyotes do not want to get hooked with Samsonov.

Number two proposal shows he hasnt done his research on these proposals ... Canucks do no have the cap room for Ryder without sending some major salary in Habs way - Edler isnt roster player and Krajicek makes 625k. This is why Canuck fans want to dump Bulis/Chouinard in any proposal.

Penguins would turn that last proposal down quick. They have cheap forwards who are better than Murray. Also adding 5th-6th defenceman Bouillon, making 1.875M for next couple years, doesnt make sence with all the UFA defencemen available next summer.

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Old
02-03-2007, 07:08 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marksman View Post
Number two proposal shows he hasnt done his research on these proposals ... Canucks do no have the cap room for Ryder without sending some major salary in Habs way - Edler isnt roster player and Krajicek makes 625k. This is why Canuck fans want to dump Bulis/Chouinard in any proposal.
And I also have to wonder how such a deal... trading one of our top goal scorers for either a prospect D or something of a fluffy depth guy when we don't really need one... amounts to making a "playoff push"?

If we can keep playing like we did the last two games against Pittsburgh and Ottawa, then I don't think there's too much need to rely on a big trade for a "playoff push". Just find the way to capture that energy every game, and we'll be just as good as we can be. Well, ok, that and wake up the top line again. I'd be happier as a bargain-hunter at the deadline rather than looking to give up big picks or prospects in the bidding wars. Get us a bit of injury insurance at centre, maybe whichever veteran grit winger is going cheapest, that's about it for me. Of course, that means Murray and Lapierre go to the minors if we do that. Or that Perezhogin goes in the deal. None of which necessarily add up to an attractive deal either, just for a couple depth rentals. Soooo...

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Old
02-03-2007, 12:14 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perezhogin_19 View Post
Ok, let's make it clear. The Yotes don't need Samsonov and they're not gonna take his salary.

Abby is an UFA at the end of the season and I don't see how he could be useful to them this year since they're out of the playoff race.

We're now with Ryder and the 2nd. Change that to a 1st and they might consider trading Doan for it. It's overpayment but the guy is the team.

To MTL: Doan and Boynton

To PHO: Ryder, Chipchura, O'Byrne and 1st

You won't like it but they would ask a lot for those players.

If the Habs want to try something, they better target Nagy. Kost and a pick might do it.
ok you make some vlaid point and obviously i did low ball them. i would expect that they would want a 1st, and i like the offer you came up with, but i dont know if the habs would want to give up one of their top C prospects and not receive any centers in return. and i dont think phx wants any more D since they are so deep in prospects. furthurmore Doan and Boynton make approx 6.2mil combines and Doan is UFA, so habs need to send salary back, that is why i included sammy,
so what about:
ryder+sammy+halak+1st

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Old
02-03-2007, 12:22 PM
  #15
Evil Ted
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Originally Posted by Cyrrus147 View Post
I don't want Jarko Ruutu in our lineup.
Hes a type of player we need, no one does the things he does on our roster.

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Old
02-03-2007, 12:27 PM
  #16
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To Phx: Ryder + 1st
To Mon: Doan + 4th (conditional if Doan doesn't resign)

This deal should get'er done imo.

Ryder is a 30 goal scorer, Doan is an upcoming UFA. We might have to throw in a mid-low lvl prospect as well (Milroy).

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Old
02-03-2007, 12:29 PM
  #17
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Originally Posted by Evil Ted View Post
Hes a type of player we need, no one does the things he does on our roster.
Murray is waking up. He costs less than Ruutu, and potentially has as big an impact. Not to mention Ruutu is signed for 1.15 million next season, which we can't afford, especially not for a 4th liner.

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Old
02-04-2007, 07:56 AM
  #18
Miller Time
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Originally Posted by Marksman View Post
First proposal seems best of them, but we have no use for Roenick and I bet Coyotes do not want to get hooked with Samsonov.

Number two proposal shows he hasnt done his research on these proposals ... Canucks do no have the cap room for Ryder without sending some major salary in Habs way - Edler isnt roster player and Krajicek makes 625k. This is why Canuck fans want to dump Bulis/Chouinard in any proposal.

Penguins would turn that last proposal down quick. They have cheap forwards who are better than Murray. Also adding 5th-6th defenceman Bouillon, making 1.875M for next couple years, doesnt make sence with all the UFA defencemen available next summer.
I think that Roenick, though at his age (and how he's playing now) doesn't look to bring much value, is a guy that has a history of playing well in the playoffs (including the 03-04 playoffs were he was great) and given that he hasn't won a cup during a pretty long and successful career, is a guy that might just have enough in the tank to explode for a 25-30 game playoff cup run. Sort of a no-risk gamble that we definitely don't need to resign in the offseason.

as far as homework goes, your right, I am not intimately familiar with the nucks cap situation, though given that Kesler is out for a big chunk of time (and he makes 1.9 mill) I figured that they could fit Ryder in.

you may be right about the pens, but from my understanding they have some pretty decent cap room, and with their team making a run for the playoffs, might be tempted to shore up their D, even if it means overpaying a bit $$-wise

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
And I also have to wonder how such a deal... trading one of our top goal scorers for either a prospect D or something of a fluffy depth guy when we don't really need one... amounts to making a "playoff push"?

If we can keep playing like we did the last two games against Pittsburgh and Ottawa, then I don't think there's too much need to rely on a big trade for a "playoff push". Just find the way to capture that energy every game, and we'll be just as good as we can be. Well, ok, that and wake up the top line again. I'd be happier as a bargain-hunter at the deadline rather than looking to give up big picks or prospects in the bidding wars. Get us a bit of injury insurance at centre, maybe whichever veteran grit winger is going cheapest, that's about it for me. Of course, that means Murray and Lapierre go to the minors if we do that. Or that Perezhogin goes in the deal. None of which necessarily add up to an attractive deal either, just for a couple depth rentals. Soooo...
I'm sorry, BG, I just don't believe that Ryder's "goal scoring" (can we really call a guy with 7 even strength goals in 53 games a "goal scorer" ?) or current lack thereof is a irreplaceable part of the team. I know you disagree, and I've heard all your arguments before, so no need to rehash them...

you are right to point out that the 2nd deal is not indicative of bolstering a playoff run (trading a guy one year of of scoring 30 goals for a work-in progress young d-man). That deal is more of a future thing... improving our young d depth by, and adding some insurance in case/when we don't resign rivet/markov/souray...

I think that adding Doan to the first line and Roenick to the C-depth would be enough to offset Ryder's production (and I would hope improve on it!), Ruutu brings and element of experienced grit that is currently lacking (I love lapierre, but he is still pretty green). Krajicek or Elder are young, but with Streit and Niinimaa we have some veteran depth to cover it.

cheers

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Old
02-04-2007, 09:28 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
To Pho:
1st 07, 3rd 08, Samsonov

To Mtl:
Doan, Roenick

&

to vcr:
Ryder

to Mtl:
Elder or Krajicek

&
To Pitt
Bouillion, murray

to Mtl:
Ruutu


playoff line-up...


Higgins -Koivu- Doan
Latendresse-Pleks-Kovalev
Perez-Bonk- johnson
Begin-Roenick- Ruutu
streit, Lapierre

Markov-Komi
Souray-Rivet
Dandy-Krajicek/Elder
Niinimaa
That line up doesn't look any better to me.

We lose the Phoenix trade because we give up a lot of picks in a decent draft for a rental UFA and a washed up player.

We lose bigger in the Canucks trade. Ryder riding the wings with the Sedins would equal 40+ goals for sure.

And Ruutu is not a player I want on this team, we have enough average players and a younger Lapierre has more skill and has the potential to be an player who can get under one's skin with more to offer the team in 2 way play too.

Those trade make us no better at all.

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Old
02-04-2007, 10:40 AM
  #20
ChuckyToGally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habitants View Post
ok you make some vlaid point and obviously i did low ball them. i would expect that they would want a 1st, and i like the offer you came up with, but i dont know if the habs would want to give up one of their top C prospects and not receive any centers in return. and i dont think phx wants any more D since they are so deep in prospects. furthurmore Doan and Boynton make approx 6.2mil combines and Doan is UFA, so habs need to send salary back, that is why i included sammy,
so what about:
ryder+sammy+halak+1st
They wouldn't take Sammy contract since he has another year to it. We would have to find a taker for him before doing the trade.

To CHI: Sergei Samsonov

To MTL: What they want to give us except Adrian Aucoin

.................................................. ............................

To PHX: Michael Ryder and Jaroslav Halak

To MTL: Nick Boynton and 4th rounder

.................................................. ............................

To PIT: Alexei Kovalev

To MTL: Ryan Malone and 3rd rounder

.................................................. ...........................

To CGY: Alexander Perezhogin and 2nd rounder

To MTL: Chuck Kobasew and 3rd rounder

.................................................. ..........................

To EDM: Sheldon Souray and 3rd rounder

To MTL: Joffrey Lupul and JF Jacques

.................................................. ...........................

To NAS: Mathieu Dandenault

To MTL: Scottie Usphall

.................................................. ...........................

Lines:

Latendresse-Koivu-Lupul
Higgins-Plekanec-Malone
Kobasew-Bonk-Johnson
Upshall-Lapierre-Streit

Markov-Komisarek
Boynton-Rivet
Bouillon-Jacques

Huet
Aebsischer

You won't like it but IMO, it wouldn't be worst. Kovalev, Ryder, Samsonov aren't producing so I can't see how the youngsters could do worst. Kovy doesn't want to play for this team anymore, I'm tired to see Ryder and Samsonov is Samsonov. Perezhogin would have a better chance with the Flames IMO.

Kobasew is hurt at the moment and he will probably be back just before the trade deadline. He had difficulties this year but I think that he could be a good player in this league.

The same thing could be say about Ryan Malone. Let's not forget that we would dump Kovy and his 4,5M$.

The player I like the most, even if he's not having a great season, is Lupul. His value is kind of low (compare to his real worth) right now and I think that his game will be back next year.

Boyton is a good d-man and he's still young. We could let Rivet go during the summer and try to go for a guy like Brad Stuart, Scott Hannan or Eric Brewer.

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Old
02-04-2007, 10:57 AM
  #21
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My Moves

To FLO: (LW) Alexander Perezhogin and a 3rd round draft pick

To MTL: (C) Jozef Stumpel

To MIN: (D) Francis Bouillon

To MTL: (D) Keith Carney

Lines:

Latendresse--Koivu--Ryder
Higgins--Stumpel--Kovalev
Samsonov--Bonk--Johnson
Begin--Lapierre--Plekanec

Markov--Komisarek
Souray--Carney
Dandenault--Rivet

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Old
02-04-2007, 11:10 AM
  #22
Evil Ted
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabutie View Post
Murray is waking up. He costs less than Ruutu, and potentially has as big an impact. Not to mention Ruutu is signed for 1.15 million next season, which we can't afford, especially not for a 4th liner.
Ruutu knows when to pick his fights, uses his head alot to be aggresive, can score sometimes too. Murray looks lost out there, looses fights and probably belongs in the AHL.

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Old
02-04-2007, 11:37 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marksman View Post
First proposal seems best of them, but we have no use for Roenick and I bet Coyotes do not want to get hooked with Samsonov.

Number two proposal shows he hasnt done his research on these proposals ... Canucks do no have the cap room for Ryder without sending some major salary in Habs way - Edler isnt roster player and Krajicek makes 625k. This is why Canuck fans want to dump Bulis/Chouinard in any proposal.

Penguins would turn that last proposal down quick. They have cheap forwards who are better than Murray. Also adding 5th-6th defenceman Bouillon, making 1.875M for next couple years, doesnt make sence with all the UFA defencemen available next summer.
Bulis, the one player i love to hate. Could not score for us and less for the canuks.
Thank you Bob for letting him go.

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Old
02-04-2007, 03:51 PM
  #24
Blind Gardien
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
I'm sorry, BG, I just don't believe that Ryder's "goal scoring" (can we really call a guy with 7 even strength goals in 53 games a "goal scorer" ?) or current lack thereof is a irreplaceable part of the team. I know you disagree, and I've heard all your arguments before, so no need to rehash them...
No need to rehash them, I agree, but on the otherhand... I would guesstimate that 7 even strength goals is near the lead on the team. As are his overall goal and points totals. Certainly worthy of top-6 forward status either way. Irreplaceable... no... not in the least... but also not "expendable" as most seem to hold. He's earning his salary, he's earning his spot in the lineup, and he's playing well enough.

My contention all along is that Ryder is "doing his job" and it'd just be shuffling deck chairs for no good cause to replace him. You lose him, you've lost a top-2 line producer and need to replace him, at which point it becomes a gamble to find out if our internal candidates really can or not. Maybe they can. Maybe they can't (or at least not yet). Maybe we just end up feeling like whoever replaces him is just a replaceable bit of top-6 offense too. Bottom line, I don't see the purpose in it.

The true bashers say outrageous things like just get him off the team, any way, any how. I have no time for that perspective. Others at least try to propose dealing him for something of worth. I don't think futures on defense is of sufficient worth to us to justify the move, however. I also have a difficult time imagining that ANY move that would be of sufficient worth to us will have significant attraction to our proposed trading partners. At least, I very rarely hear suggestions that seem plausible to me on that score. But I'm hardly saying he's "irreplaceable".

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02-04-2007, 03:59 PM
  #25
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PETER FORSBERG
or
JOE SAKIC
or
OLLI JOKINEN

we need a star, not a "good player"

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