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Old
02-05-2007, 10:21 AM
  #1
Rotorgeek
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Who are the slackers

Who is not giving 100% out there. I have been hearing of players taking shifts off since last year. Who are they? We need them off this team allready.

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02-05-2007, 10:34 AM
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The problem is, I don't think it's the same guys every night.

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02-05-2007, 11:34 AM
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Horton. The kid is just flat out lazy.

Auld. I'm puzzled as to why he's still in the league at this point. He needs to learn some basic goalie moves...in the minors. I think Anderson would do better than Auld at this point.

Gratton. He's had one really good game the entire season. The rest of the games? Not so much.

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02-05-2007, 11:53 AM
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Horton has for some time now been very lazy.

I know Jokinen is in a bit of a slump, but it happens. He shouldn't have to shoulder the entire offense. He'll pick it back up, especially with Roberts back.

Speaking of which, Gelinas has been better of late. The problem with him is not so much lack of effort, it's that he doesn't really fit on this team. He certainly shouldn't be getting top line or powerplay minutes, though I can see why without Roberts. But we need someone in that role who can score goals. He's nothing more than a 3rd liner at best.

Gratton has actually been far more disappointing. They took away Sim (which was a very bad decision as it is) and he's been pretty damn awful out there. If not for guys like Stumpel our secondary scoring would really be hurting.

Auld of course is slacking in a talent area. It's all mental for him, but if he doesn't overcome it, I don't know what. He looks atrocious out there right now. The only team I'd even start him against at this point is Philly...if Forsberg is injured/gone.

What's nice though is I don't think anyone is really slacking terribly defensively. There are guys there that just aren't at a great talent level. Monty and Kiwi are ok but when you take out Mezei and Van Ryn, it really starts to drop off. Allen is still learning and getting better, Bo rules, Salei is pretty darn good but not perfect. Shifting in line combos hurts this some.

Who's giving the ultimate in effort? Olesz 100% now, Weiss all season, Bouwmeester all season, very few mistakes from him. Stumpel is nowadays and let's not forget Peltonen.

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02-05-2007, 12:19 PM
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Why don't we shorten the list to the guys who give 100% every game this year. Weiss and Bouwmeester are the only two that come to mind. Any objections or additions?

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02-05-2007, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthers Rock View Post
Horton has for some time now been very lazy.

I know Jokinen is in a bit of a slump, but it happens. He shouldn't have to shoulder the entire offense. He'll pick it back up, especially with Roberts back.

Speaking of which, Gelinas has been better of late. The problem with him is not so much lack of effort, it's that he doesn't really fit on this team. He certainly shouldn't be getting top line or powerplay minutes, though I can see why without Roberts. But we need someone in that role who can score goals. He's nothing more than a 3rd liner at best.

Gratton has actually been far more disappointing. They took away Sim (which was a very bad decision as it is) and he's been pretty damn awful out there. If not for guys like Stumpel our secondary scoring would really be hurting.

Auld of course is slacking in a talent area. It's all mental for him, but if he doesn't overcome it, I don't know what. He looks atrocious out there right now. The only team I'd even start him against at this point is Philly...if Forsberg is injured/gone.

What's nice though is I don't think anyone is really slacking terribly defensively. There are guys there that just aren't at a great talent level. Monty and Kiwi are ok but when you take out Mezei and Van Ryn, it really starts to drop off. Allen is still learning and getting better, Bo rules, Salei is pretty darn good but not perfect. Shifting in line combos hurts this some.

Who's giving the ultimate in effort? Olesz 100% now, Weiss all season, Bouwmeester all season, very few mistakes from him. Stumpel is nowadays and let's not forget Peltonen.

Horton seems like one lazy .... If he loses the puck he doesnt do anything to try get it back he just lets it go. Without the puck he is an awful player.

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02-05-2007, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Rattrick View Post
Why don't we shorten the list to the guys who give 100% every game this year. Weiss and Bouwmeester are the only two that come to mind. Any objections or additions?
They have been the most consistent all year. Says a lot about why this team's inconsistency has done them in, doesn't it?

I only note Olesz because ever since he came back from his AHL stint, he's been great and he hasn't let up. He seems like the kind of guy that wants to learn, wants to get better and has no qualms doing what is asked of him. So far, the kind of guy you want on your team.

Stumpel is unfortunately again just Mr. Second half. I'm so confused with this guy, one point you hate him, and another he's better than Jokinen. If we had more offensive players around these guys it wouldn't be as big of a problem. Him being bad in the 1st half once again correlates to a bad November. The team should not have to be relying on so few players.

Guys like Gratton, Gelinas, etc. don't seem to have a real role here. They would be basically 3rd/4th liners except they've had to play a lot more than that. And even now we've only had 2 forwards injured, just 2. Regardless of who those injuries are, our depth is lacking way more at offense than we realize. Also, losing Newy really hurt.

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02-05-2007, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Rattrick View Post
Why don't we shorten the list to the guys who give 100% every game this year. Weiss and Bouwmeester are the only two that come to mind. Any objections or additions?

I'd add Ruslan Salei to the guys giving 100%. Sure, he's not scoring as much right now, but I think the fact he was on a scoring streak at all this season is a bonus.

And I like Gelinas. Gelinas is constantly on the move when he hits the ice. When he's not scoring, he's taking people out of the play. I know he's not perfect, but the guy hustles better than anyone else on the team, save Bouw.

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02-05-2007, 02:26 PM
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I have mixed feelings about Horton. I don't know whether it's as simple as laziness or if he is just so insecure that he relies on his talent alone and doesn't have enough confidence/hockey sense in what to do without the puck. One of the reasons I say this is that earlier this season, he was taking a lot of penalties. Then he got benched/demoted off first line, etc... I have neither the time nor wherewithall to verify this but IMO it doesn't seem as though he's taking so many penalties now. This could be totally wrong and I am sure someone on here will look up his stats and prove me wrong.

Regardless, he plays better with an edge = taking penalties. I just question if what we are seeing is truly laziness or a player who is too afraid to make a mistake that he's become ineffecitve. Paralyzed by fear so to speak. He still is pretty young and I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one. I really want to see Nate turn this around. I just question if he has the support to do it here. He needs my Joey to help him like he did with Jamie Langenbrunner.

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02-05-2007, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Girl View Post
I have mixed feelings about Horton. I don't know whether it's as simple as laziness or if he is just so insecure that he relies on his talent alone and doesn't have enough confidence/hockey sense in what to do without the puck. One of the reasons I say this is that earlier this season, he was taking a lot of penalties. Then he got benched/demoted off first line, etc... I have neither the time nor wherewithall to verify this but IMO it doesn't seem as though he's taking so many penalties now. This could be totally wrong and I am sure someone on here will look up his stats and prove me wrong.

Regardless, he plays better with an edge = taking penalties. I just question if what we are seeing is truly laziness or a player who is too afraid to make a mistake that he's become ineffecitve. Paralyzed by fear so to speak. He still is pretty young and I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one. I really want to see Nate turn this around. I just question if he has the support to do it here. He needs my Joey to help him like he did with Jamie Langenbrunner.
Ask and you shall receive:

Let's go month by month with Horton's PIM and point production shall we?

October: 12 PIM, 6 points
November: 11 PIM, 11 points
December: 22 PIM, 15 points
January: 4 PIM, 6 points
February (so far): 2 PIM, 0 points

I don't know, maybe you're on to something, though that doesn't automatically characterize his play, but those are the hard numbers. I think December stands out considering how drastically different it was from January. Good catch, HG.

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02-05-2007, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Lola View Post
I'd add Ruslan Salei to the guys giving 100%. Sure, he's not scoring as much right now, but I think the fact he was on a scoring streak at all this season is a bonus.

And I like Gelinas. Gelinas is constantly on the move when he hits the ice. When he's not scoring, he's taking people out of the play. I know he's not perfect, but the guy hustles better than anyone else on the team, save Bouw.
I agree, I'm never afraid when Gelinas is out there. I know he will always be giving a 100% effort.

Horton is a player that I'm... a little scared about when he's out there. Scared of what he's going to do that will not help us.

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02-05-2007, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthers Rock View Post
Ask and you shall receive:

Let's go month by month with Horton's PIM and point production shall we?

October: 12 PIM, 6 points
November: 11 PIM, 11 points
December: 22 PIM, 15 points
January: 4 PIM, 6 points
February (so far): 2 PIM, 0 points

I don't know, maybe you're on to something, though that doesn't automatically characterize his play, but those are the hard numbers. I think December stands out considering how drastically different it was from January. Good catch, HG.
I think too Nate may also be struggling without Joe and Gary to help him out. Joe retired in Dec and Gary's been out most of January. I think it was in one of GR's articles that he mentioned that Nate was one of the first people to greet Joey when he stopped by on a Saturday to talk to Coach Martin. Not having Joe or Gary in the lineup certainly hasn't helped. Older and experienced players can share with the younger players about what they can do to help the team even if they are struggling offensively. Joe is also very encouraging to younger players. Both Matt Stajan and Jamie Langenbrunner have credited Joe with helping them.

I just think it's more of a confidence issue than laziness. Quite honestly, laziness would probably be easier to address than lack of confidence. But I am not there with the team everyday so I don't know. This is all mere speculation on my part.

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02-05-2007, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lola View Post
I'd add Ruslan Salei to the guys giving 100%. Sure, he's not scoring as much right now, but I think the fact he was on a scoring streak at all this season is a bonus.

And I like Gelinas. Gelinas is constantly on the move when he hits the ice. When he's not scoring, he's taking people out of the play. I know he's not perfect, but the guy hustles better than anyone else on the team, save Bouw.
I will definetely give you Salei. Good point there. He sometimes takes some stupid penalties and hasn't been scoring like he was earlier on, but as advertised he's pretty solid.

Gelinas, even though I dislike him and his abilities does at least give 100% to his credit.

Sad when you can only name 4 guys on your team that seem to give a damn.

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02-05-2007, 03:57 PM
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ever since olesz came back from Rochester, hes been really good- i like weissy too those are my votes.

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02-05-2007, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by PanthersHockey View Post
ever since olesz came back from Rochester, hes been really good- i like weissy too those are my votes.
You're right, forgot to add him -- that gives us a whooping 5 players! Sad when you can't even list your captain in that list. I really want to see Weiss get an A next year as his play alone deserves it.

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02-05-2007, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Rattrick View Post
You're right, forgot to add him -- that gives us a whooping 5 players! Sad when you can't even list your captain in that list. I really want to see Weiss get an A next year as his play alone deserves it.
agree 100%

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02-05-2007, 07:55 PM
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I don't think Van Ryn's been slacking. And neither has Belfour. And Allen's stepped it up a notch recently.

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02-05-2007, 08:17 PM
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I don't think Van Ryn's been slacking.
me neither. he just hasn't been good

my slacker captain is.... you guessed it - the captain.

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02-05-2007, 08:26 PM
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I don't think Van Ryn's been slacking. And neither has Belfour. And Allen's stepped it up a notch recently.
Yeah let's be fair, Van Ryn has technically been injured virtually all year. He is a warrior, he played real hurt in the Washington game, numbed his hand with ice. But they wouldn't let him go in the LA game.

Allen has physically has become a presence ever since the new year. I think the trip against his old rivals out west helped boost him up. Belfour has basically been solid for months now.

Point is though, only Weiss and Bouwmeester have been consistent for the ENTIRE season, and that's a problem. Olesz, Stumpel, and Peltonen come quite close after that. And I'd make a case for Salei as well. Can't argue much with his offensive output slowing down because the guy is not an offensive defenseman. He was brought in to be defensive and he's totally outdone himself and broken his career numbers in his first season here. That alone makes him a great signing.

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02-05-2007, 08:50 PM
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Yeah let's be fair, Van Ryn has technically been injured virtually all year. He is a warrior, he played real hurt in the Washington game, numbed his hand with ice. But they wouldn't let him go in the LA game.
true but that doesn't explain why he was out of position against brindamour (to give just one example) in that critical carolina game and took the penalty that killed us. while bad wrists can affect the extent to which you can rough up your check in the defensive end but they shouldn't affect your ability to maintain position. i think the injury's manifested itself more obviously on the offensive end with his wildly erratic shot.

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Allen has physically has become a presence ever since the new year. I think the trip against his old rivals out west helped boost him up. Belfour has basically been solid for months now.
i got no problem with allen. he's a tough mofo. he was struggling a bit earlier on but he's been really tough the past month (yes, since JM put him back with bo for the vancouver game).

Quote:
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Point is though, only Weiss and Bouwmeester have been consistent for the ENTIRE season, and that's a problem. Olesz, Stumpel, and Peltonen come quite close after that. And I'd make a case for Salei as well. Can't argue much with his offensive output slowing down because the guy is not an offensive defenseman. He was brought in to be defensive and he's totally outdone himself and broken his career numbers in his first season here. That alone makes him a great signing.
and that is precisely why one of them should be captain. sooner rather than later.

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02-05-2007, 08:59 PM
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If players are slacking then I think there is one person who is clearly the biggest slacker, Jacques Martin. He's the coach. If they aren't performing, then he needs to motivate them.

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02-05-2007, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Rattrick View Post
Why don't we shorten the list to the guys who give 100% every game this year. Weiss and Bouwmeester are the only two that come to mind. Any objections or additions?
Nope.

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02-06-2007, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lola View Post
I'd add Ruslan Salei to the guys giving 100%. Sure, he's not scoring as much right now, but I think the fact he was on a scoring streak at all this season is a bonus.

And I like Gelinas. Gelinas is constantly on the move when he hits the ice. When he's not scoring, he's taking people out of the play. I know he's not perfect, but the guy hustles better than anyone else on the team, save Bouw.
Sorry, thats the worst sentence i have ever read. Insanity. Gelinas would actually be decent if he was kept to the 4th line all the time. He may have scored a FEW recently, but it doesn't change the fact that i have more offensive instincts than him.

Horton is the laziest guy probably. He's either our best forward or he one of our worst.

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02-06-2007, 02:25 PM
  #24
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Sorry, thats the worst sentence i have ever read. Insanity. Gelinas would actually be decent if he was kept to the 4th line all the time. He may have scored a FEW recently, but it doesn't change the fact that i have more offensive instincts than him.
That may or may not be true, but he gives everything he has on the ice-game in and game out. You never see him just standing around waiting for the play to come to him.

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02-06-2007, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lola View Post
That may or may not be true, but he gives everything he has on the ice-game in and game out. You never see him just standing around waiting for the play to come to him.
agreed

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