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Cory Cross article - Journeyman

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Old
02-05-2007, 03:31 PM
  #1
vb
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Cory Cross article - Journeyman

Good article on Cory Cross, now playing in Europe. Amazing story that he even made the NHL.

http://www.uofaweb.ualberta.ca/newtr...66&nav01=53765

I had no idea he was getting booed so much in Rexall; I did know that the game passed him by during the lockout.

At one point he takes a shot at MacTavish...
Quote:
For his part, Cross says that the biggest thing that affected him through those hard times in Edmonton “was just my confidence, and I think that came more from the coach than from the fans. I’d have a few good games, then I got hurt, and that set me back a little bit, and I guess I just had a tough time fitting in, in the coach’s eyes. It’s tough to play when you don’t play every day because you’re on a fine line: if you make a mistake it’s magnified and you won’t play the next game. So you go out there thinking about not making mistakes.
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02-05-2007, 04:31 PM
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Good article and thanks for posting it

Cross is a good guy and I have never said anything bad about him on that level.


the reality is, and it is good that he recognizes it, at this stage of his career he needs to go to Europe or else play most the time in the AHL with occasional NHL call ups to fill in for a team that has little depth in the minors for dmen to fill in.


It is good to see that he can enjoy a few more years playing hockey, and not have the pressure of having to stop the best players in the world every game.

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02-05-2007, 04:39 PM
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This won't be a popular opinion because so many people on this site LOVE Mac T, but how much longer should we put up with this BS from this guy? Where else in the league do you know of that plays favourite's as openly as he does??? It gets disgusting. Toby Peterson gets bigger and bigger minutes and he's a poor man's Radek Dvorak! I know Cross was pretty bad last year, and a lot of you HATE Chimera, and a lot of you HATE Laraque, but just because these guys are 4th line/6th d-men on a team isn't why he's doing this. Chimera is better then Peterson, Laraque to me is a more valuable guy to have around then Peterson. It's getting EMBARRASSING how openly and obviously Mac T plays favourite's and I personally think Raffi Torres is soon to be in a group with these guys, as is Bergeron. You guys want a reason why UFA's wouldn't want to come here, this would rank up there as a pretty huge reason!

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02-05-2007, 04:50 PM
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Such is the life on a team that battles for the 6-8 playoff spot. Bad games hurt your team, and you don't always have time to wait for these players to play through what ails them, and to get back to conrtibuting.

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02-05-2007, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vb View Post
Good article on Cory Cross, now playing in Europe. Amazing story that he even made the NHL.

http://www.uofaweb.ualberta.ca/newtr...66&nav01=53765

I had no idea he was getting booed so much in Rexall; I did know that the game passed him by during the lockout.

At one point he takes a shot at MacTavish...


Discuss
This is exactly how MacT played the 3 goalie headed monster and wrecked the confidence of each one of them.

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02-05-2007, 04:54 PM
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Fans are idiots and very cruel to some players unfortunately.

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02-05-2007, 05:09 PM
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I agreed with Matheson on Cross. yes, he wasn't the greatest dman in the world, but he played a simple game sufficient for the 5/6/7 dman role. And despite his local roots, he was flamed badly for it. Its like people expected him to be some sort of 5/6/7 version of Rob Blake or something.

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02-05-2007, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Ari Gold View Post
This won't be a popular opinion because so many people on this site LOVE Mac T, but how much longer should we put up with this BS from this guy? Where else in the league do you know of that plays favourite's as openly as he does???
Err, 3.5 more years. His GM and close friend will likely never have a philisophical falling out.

On your second question, I'm not sure. None of us follow other teams with a microscope like we do the Oilers. All I know is that MacT is NOT the first coach, past or current for any team that was not liked by the players that have left.

As for the Peterson effect, highly overstated on this site. He has had two streches where he played anywhere above the third ES line. One was up with Syk and Hemmer DURING THEIR WINNING STREAK in November, so he was not shuffled off of it. The other was with Lupul and Sykora after the reunification of 10-94-83. Then the injury to Stoll occurred.

As to why others are not on the left point on the PP -- none of us know because we don't see the practices and we (or at least I don't) know the experience level of each of the players. In his AHL term last year and early this season Toby was one of Iowa's top scorers (18 pts in 18 games this season) so the only guy we should jones about him taking icetime from is Nedved Winchester or Thoresen when he has sat.

Its not a Peterson love-in. He can play LW, C, PK, and I guess they think he can play point. He is what he is. A utility guy, and that's useful for a coach.

There have been plenty of successful coaches who employed a system where they break the player down and build them up in a specific way. Players like Yzerman and Modano come to mind as ones who were heavily molded by their coach. I'm also certain that Bowman and Hitchcock have some players who never got it and feel that these guys hurt their careers.

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02-05-2007, 05:13 PM
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Kinda funny

unless you hear both sides of the story, you'll never know the truth.

I stuck up for Cross all the time he was in Edmonton. But, in my view, he made his own bed.

NHL teams dont have the luxury of playing guys without upside if they arnt pulling their weight. And Cory would not make the simple play. Thats what killed his confidence.

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02-05-2007, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Gold View Post
This won't be a popular opinion because so many people on this site LOVE Mac T, but how much longer should we put up with this BS from this guy? Where else in the league do you know of that plays favourite's as openly as he does??? It gets disgusting. Toby Peterson gets bigger and bigger minutes and he's a poor man's Radek Dvorak! I know Cross was pretty bad last year, and a lot of you HATE Chimera, and a lot of you HATE Laraque, but just because these guys are 4th line/6th d-men on a team isn't why he's doing this. Chimera is better then Peterson, Laraque to me is a more valuable guy to have around then Peterson. It's getting EMBARRASSING how openly and obviously Mac T plays favourite's and I personally think Raffi Torres is soon to be in a group with these guys, as is Bergeron. You guys want a reason why UFA's wouldn't want to come here, this would rank up there as a pretty huge reason!
We have a coach that took us to the Finals, yet people complains about him. I don't know how many agree with me, but to me It was MacT who had the master plan and out coached Babcock during the Detroit series. He came up with a plan where oilers shut down Detroit's offence.

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02-05-2007, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Matty31 View Post
This is exactly how MacT played the 3 goalie headed monster and wrecked the confidence of each one of them.
Your way off.

Jussi, Conklin and Mo were all giving tons of chances to take the number one spot and roll with it and none of them proved they could handle it (which wasn't much of a suprise). How is it Mactavish's fault that he gave all 3 goalies equal opportunity and none of them could really shine?

What else did he have to work with until Kevin Lowe made the trade for a true number 1?

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02-05-2007, 05:22 PM
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cross is a rat

booing is our way to let kevin lowe know

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02-05-2007, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuMz View Post
Your way off.

Jussi, Conklin and Mo were all giving tons of chances to take the number one spot and roll with it and none of them proved they could handle it (which wasn't much of a suprise). How is it Mactavish's fault that he gave all 3 goalies equal opportunity and none of them could really shine?

What else did he have to work with until Kevin Lowe made the trade for a true number 1?
MacT pulled each goalie everytime one bad goal was let in. The goalies knew one bad goal and they are out just like how Cross said one mistake and he was out of the lineup. I think that was a coaching error.

For goalies its all about confidence, you wont give your goalies confidence when you keep pulling them after each bad goal.
I think MacT learnt his lesson at the end since he left Jussi in no matter what for the SCF. He even said in the papers that whoever he starts game 2 will play the rest of the SCF. Jussi played great once he knew that he wouldnt get yanked after every 'bad' goal. Game 2 he was average but came back great in game 3 and on.

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02-05-2007, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by namflashback View Post
Err, 3.5 more years. His GM and close friend will likely never have a philisophical falling out.

On your second question, I'm not sure. None of us follow other teams with a microscope like we do the Oilers. All I know is that MacT is NOT the first coach, past or current for any team that was not liked by the players that have left.

As for the Peterson effect, highly overstated on this site. He has had two streches where he played anywhere above the third ES line. One was up with Syk and Hemmer DURING THEIR WINNING STREAK in November, so he was not shuffled off of it. The other was with Lupul and Sykora after the reunification of 10-94-83. Then the injury to Stoll occurred.

As to why others are not on the left point on the PP -- none of us know because we don't see the practices and we (or at least I don't) know the experience level of each of the players. In his AHL term last year and early this season Toby was one of Iowa's top scorers (18 pts in 18 games this season) so the only guy we should jones about him taking icetime from is Nedved Winchester or Thoresen when he has sat.

Its not a Peterson love-in. He can play LW, C, PK, and I guess they think he can play point. He is what he is. A utility guy, and that's useful for a coach.

There have been plenty of successful coaches who employed a system where they break the player down and build them up in a specific way. Players like Yzerman and Modano come to mind as ones who were heavily molded by their coach. I'm also certain that Bowman and Hitchcock have some players who never got it and feel that these guys hurt their careers.
Good post NFB. I occassionaly wonder myself about certain aspects of MacT's coaching but I don't think that talent analysis is particularly a weak spot. And thinking that guys who got cut or traded are going to be able to offer a definitive and objective analysis is asking a little bit too much, imo.

I think that beside these comments you have to listen to guys like Horcoff and Cleary who have nothing but good things to say about him. Sometimes it just comes down to different personalities.

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02-05-2007, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by oiler4ever View Post
We have a coach that took us to the Finals, yet people complains about him. I don't know how many agree with me, but to me It was MacT who had the master plan and out coached Babcock during the Detroit series. He came up with a plan where oilers shut down Detroit's offence.
We have a coach that hasn't taken us higher then 8th in the freakin Conference for the last 4 seasons and on his way to a 5th....and this is in 6 years. And the first year he only took us 2 points higher then 8th! Mac T didn't have a "master plan", he employed the same exact plan that the Ducks and Flames before them used to knock out Detroit....he said so in the playoffs last year. That was one HECK of a well built team that wanted a Cup in the worst way....I'm not saying that Mac T didn't do a good job during the playoffs, but it was much more about Kevin Lowe putting together a team that had hardly any holes....the only thing you COULD say during that run is that they didn't have a gamebreaking forward like a Lecavalier, Kovalchuck, Richards, Sakic, etc.

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02-05-2007, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by namflashback View Post
Err, 3.5 more years. His GM and close friend will likely never have a philisophical falling out.

On your second question, I'm not sure. None of us follow other teams with a microscope like we do the Oilers. All I know is that MacT is NOT the first coach, past or current for any team that was not liked by the players that have left.

As for the Peterson effect, highly overstated on this site. He has had two streches where he played anywhere above the third ES line. One was up with Syk and Hemmer DURING THEIR WINNING STREAK in November, so he was not shuffled off of it. The other was with Lupul and Sykora after the reunification of 10-94-83. Then the injury to Stoll occurred.

As to why others are not on the left point on the PP -- none of us know because we don't see the practices and we (or at least I don't) know the experience level of each of the players. In his AHL term last year and early this season Toby was one of Iowa's top scorers (18 pts in 18 games this season) so the only guy we should jones about him taking icetime from is Nedved Winchester or Thoresen when he has sat.

Its not a Peterson love-in. He can play LW, C, PK, and I guess they think he can play point. He is what he is. A utility guy, and that's useful for a coach.

There have been plenty of successful coaches who employed a system where they break the player down and build them up in a specific way. Players like Yzerman and Modano come to mind as ones who were heavily molded by their coach. I'm also certain that Bowman and Hitchcock have some players who never got it and feel that these guys hurt their careers.
You know what's scary about all this though, and I do agree with your points however I was mostly speaking hypothetically....anyways...the scary thing is that Mac T wasn't coached by Bowman or Hitch...he was coached by another guy who did stuff like this, Keenan. And while he doesn't manipulate players in the media the way Keenan tried to, he does a ton of things that Keenan did do. Iron Mike isn't exactly a guy that I would want coaching my team....so why is Mac T?

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02-05-2007, 05:45 PM
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We have a coach that hasn't taken us higher then 8th in the freakin Conference for the last 4 seasons and on his way to a 5th....and this is in 6 years. And the first year he only took us 2 points higher then 8th! Mac T didn't have a "master plan", he employed the same exact plan that the Ducks and Flames before them used to knock out Detroit....he said so in the playoffs last year. That was one HECK of a well built team that wanted a Cup in the worst way....I'm not saying that Mac T didn't do a good job during the playoffs, but it was much more about Kevin Lowe putting together a team that had hardly any holes....the only thing you COULD say during that run is that they didn't have a gamebreaking forward like a Lecavalier, Kovalchuck, Richards, Sakic, etc.
At the end of the day, does anyone care or remeber how they are done in regular season or where they finished. Everybody talks about playoffs. People will always remember how they performed during the post season, not pre or regular season

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02-05-2007, 07:29 PM
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Interesting article.

I always felt that the Oilers fans scapegoating Cory Cross and the persistent was a stupid and shallow thing to do. How exactly a #6 defensemen becomes the sole player responsible for a a team struggling still escapes me. People unfortunately rationalize it as "coming with the territory" or "it's how we let the organization know we're unhappy," but I agree with Hrudey that it's disrespectful and ignorant.

The fact of the matter is that these players are still human beings, and human psychology still applies to them as much as everyone else. I can't possibly imagine how much it would suck to be an athlete playing for the team listening to a bunch of arm chair wannabe GMs/coaches that are self-proclaimed experts of the game say how much I suck and am a waste of skin. Given stuff like this never has a positive impact on a player (don't even think about saying it'll create a "I'll show them" type attitude. Persistent criticism breeds poor confidence, and no one performs better when they no longer believe in themselves), and quite frankly persistently booing a player is a disservice to the team you cheer for. It helps contribute to a negative atmosphere around the player, and every game that that player plays in is automatically a team that is incapable of playing to the best of their ability, simply because that player is now incapable of playing to the best of his ability.

You want to let the organization know you're unhappy? Hit them where it hurts, their wallet. Don't watch the games and don't pay for gate tickets. Or write a letter to the corporate office explaining your displeasure. Heck, write a letter explaining to them how they won't make money by you watching the game and buying gate tickets. Don't persistently boo a player and phone in on talk shows stating how much he sucks and is a waste of oxygen. It does nothing to help the player or the team. It forces the GMs hand to make a trade, since it creates a distraction for the team, unhappy players likely aren't fantastic locker room influences, and the player is just flat out underperforming. Since the player is also underperforming, combined the idea that the GM is forced to make a trade, you run the risk of getting less than value simply because anything is better than an underperforming, demoralized player.

You think it's an effective way to let a player know you're unhappy with his performance? First, get your arrogant, narrowminded head out of your ass. When a player plays like ****, he knows he played like ****. If it's particularly bad, he's going to hear it from the coaches and perhaps even teammates. Any "notification" of how bad he's playing is going to be completely redundant. Especially for a guy like Cory Cross who isn't a prima donna and made his way to the NHL through hard work and challenging himself to be the best player he could be. Especially when said criticism is coming from some halfwit that thinks he knows hockey because he watches the game on television and maybe played some Bantam or Midget hockey while growing up. None of these guys made it to the NHL without playing some **** games and getting a strip torn out of them by a coach somewhere up the line. No one likes being responsible for their team losing a game, and you can be damned sure if it happens it's not something they'll want to experience again.

Other rationalizations such as "they should be used to it" and "when they make so much money they open themselves up to it" are nothing but gigantic piles of flaming donkey poodoo. Athletes are not robotic automatons that are immune to human psychology. And their pay grade is determined simply by the market that bears it. Sorry your pencil pushing job doesn't get you six figures, but that doesn't give you the right to treat a person like old dog crap. Just like how someone buying some cheap shirt from Walmart does not entitle them to tear strips into an employee running the shirt through, purchasing a ticket or a piece of Oiler memorabilia does not give you the right to tear a strip into an employee of the Edmonton Oilers. I imagine none of you would enjoy hearing from your boss how much you suck, only to have your customers state it to you, and then hear complete strangers who have at best a faint understanding of what you do for a living talking behind your back about how much you suck at your job and should be fired. Because despite whatever deluded preconceived notions you have about the iron will of professional athletes, it's the exact same damn thing. If you're lucky, maybe the elite superstars will have the mental fortitude to get through a constant barrage of criticism and flat out hate, but guaranteed they won't want to stick around and play in that environment. No one wants to.



As for the people now criticizing MacTavish for apparently destroying Cross' confidence, I hope none of you were the ones bashing Cross' presence on our team since MacTavish's short leash is exactly what you wanted. If Cross sucks, Cross is out of the lineup. It's what you all wanted. In doing so, you forfeit your right to criticize MacTavish for poorly handling it and destroying Cross' confidence.



And all this doesn't even touch on the effects the comments have on the families of this hockey player. But I guess hearing how much their son/brother/husband sucks and is a stupid moron is just something that comes with the territory of being related to a professional athlete.

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02-05-2007, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Matty31 View Post
MacT pulled each goalie everytime one bad goal was let in. The goalies knew one bad goal and they are out just like how Cross said one mistake and he was out of the lineup. I think that was a coaching error.
Show me one instance where Mac-T pulled one of them after letting in one soft one. It was the case of them letting in multiple softies on very limited shots just about taking us out of many games. There were many games where after 2-3 softies they were pulled only for our offense to come back and outscore the other team for the win with our relieving goalie. Had he left the struggling goalie in then it could have gotten pretty ugly and we probably wouldn't even have had a chance at that playoff run last year in the first place.

And when they played good for a game they were rewarded....thats the way any system works. Like I said before they have noone to blame but themselves, but it no way was that a coaching error.

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02-05-2007, 07:59 PM
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i agree with the people who have been saying that booing a player is very stupid.... it doesnt accomplish *anything* and it actually *hurts* your team.... it does the exact opposite of what you boo-birds think it will do.... next time you feel like booing an individual player, think twice about it, because its really quite stupid

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02-05-2007, 08:17 PM
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I was hoping for angry rebuttals. Replacement will be so disappointed

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02-05-2007, 08:18 PM
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Nice feature about an ordinary Joe who worked himself into a ten+ year NHL career. It is fair to say Cory Cross maximized his abilities to play at this game's highest level.

I admire and respect these types of players who do not have superior natural ability and a free ticket to the NHL, but rather have to work harder and persevere to squeeze out their maximum effort and ability to realize the dream. I was disappointed many Oil fans chose to scapegoat this bottom tier defenseman criticizing his game, his appearance, and often his intelligence. It was clear the New NHL had passed players like Cory Cross by in its movement to speed but he never shortshrift the Oil and its fans in effort during his time in Edmonton.

Pretty sad to hear a hometown kid is brought to tears over such poor treatment. Too much criticism for a pretty simple guy who fought and clawed to realize this dream. Many Oil fans seem to want to eat their young.

"Success has always been easy to measure, it is the distance between one's origins and one's final achievement." In my eyes, that makes Cory Cross a nice success story for all of us who have the dream to play in the NHL. At the end of the day, he has logged more NHL games than me and I venture all of the Oil posters on this site. And that is the bottom line.

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02-05-2007, 08:23 PM
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Boo frickin hoo. MacT and the fans hurt his feelings. The MINIMUM salary after new CBA became about $450,000. For most of his career, Cross made at least double that. For most people, it is a pretty good wack at the monthly disposable income to take a family of four to one NHL game. We're supposed to feel bad that the coach told Cross that he had to play better. He did have to. The guy was not good enough to play in a no clutch league. It is the job of the coach to tell his players he's not measuring up. What a tool...

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02-05-2007, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuMz View Post
Show me one instance where Mac-T pulled one of them after letting in one soft one. It was the case of them letting in multiple softies on very limited shots just about taking us out of many games. There were many games where after 2-3 softies they were pulled only for our offense to come back and outscore the other team for the win with our relieving goalie. Had he left the struggling goalie in then it could have gotten pretty ugly and we probably wouldn't even have had a chance at that playoff run last year in the first place.

And when they played good for a game they were rewarded....thats the way any system works. Like I said before they have noone to blame but themselves, but it no way was that a coaching error.
Many times MacT pulled them after 1 bad goal. There were times when the goalie pull resulted in a win but there were many times that it didnt work. The problem is, like Cross said, is it wrecks their confidence.

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02-05-2007, 09:00 PM
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Well, I booed him plenty, but not for his play.

In an interview with Dan Toth on the Fan590 during the lockout, Cross ended up going on a tantrum about the fan's lack of knowledge on the 'hardships' of playing in the NHL. That did it for me.

Hell, the little group of season ticket holders we have in 223 would call him out on the way to the pressbox.

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