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Colossal Guffaws

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Old
12-07-2003, 12:21 PM
  #1
flyercide
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Colossal Guffaws

Anyone else feel sorry for owners like Detroit or Washington or any other team that signed a big name player for $$$ than have the player play way below expectations? 16 million for Joseph to sit for 2 more yrs! That's 1/2 of most teams annual budget. Granted Detroit caused this problem themselves. They didnt learn from the Osgood situation. Nor did they foresee the problem of moving big salaries before CBA/lock-out year. And in addition they lowered Joseph's marketability to the point that hardly anyone wants this goalie when year earlier 4 teams were all bidding for his services. Not to mention the goalie market is pretty saturated. I just find it mind-boggling that team's are getting stuck with these huge guaranteed contracts. Why do the owners allow such things? A lot of players are getting the paychecks than not delieving the goods. If I was a owner I'd probably make all salaries incentive goal based. But than theres problems with that too...

heres the latest article that sparked this thread
http://nhl.com/onthefly/news/2003/12/186442.html

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Old
12-07-2003, 12:39 PM
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Ziggy Stardust
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyercide
Anyone else feel sorry for owners like Detroit or Washington or any other team that signed a big name player for $$$ than have the player play way below expectations? 16 million for Joseph to sit for 2 more yrs! That's 1/2 of most teams annual budget. Granted Detroit caused this problem themselves. They didnt learn from the Osgood situation. Nor did they foresee the problem of moving big salaries before CBA/lock-out year. And in addition they lowered Joseph's marketability to the point that hardly anyone wants this goalie when year earlier 4 teams were all bidding for his services. Not to mention the goalie market is pretty saturated. I just find it mind-boggling that team's are getting stuck with these huge guaranteed contracts. Why do the owners allow such things? A lot of players are getting the paychecks than not delieving the goods. If I was a owner I'd probably make all salaries incentive goal based. But than theres problems with that too...

heres the latest article that sparked this thread
http://nhl.com/onthefly/news/2003/12/186442.html

Why should anyone feel sorry for them? It's called bad business decisions, and they tried to go for a quick fix which obviously hasn't gone as planned.
The Rangers have been doing it for the past six seasons.

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Old
12-07-2003, 12:43 PM
  #3
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Sure now that Hasek has comeback its a bad buisness decision but Detroit at the time needed a goaltender and signed the top goalie availible. No one, not even Hasek himself, thought he would comeback. In my opinion its Hasek's fault for creating all this mess. If he had stayed after the 02 season, Detroit wouldnt have this mess with Cujo, they wouldnt have needed him.

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Old
12-07-2003, 12:59 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyercide
Anyone else feel sorry for owners like Detroit or Washington or any other team that signed a big name player for $$$ than have the player play way below expectations?
Not in the least. They are the ones who agreed to pay them their outragous contracts, and now they must live with their mistake. Sorry, but I can't feel sorry for a billionare who loses out on a few million. Maybe one day I can feel their pain.

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Old
12-07-2003, 01:52 PM
  #5
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Originally Posted by Dr Love
Not in the least. They are the ones who agreed to pay them their outragous contracts, and now they must live with their mistake. Sorry, but I can't feel sorry for a billionare who loses out on a few million. Maybe one day I can feel their pain.
well lot of the teams arent run by billionaires. the league is suffering from teams over-paying players for one reason or another. its mostly the lower income teams that are paying the ultimate price.

the flyers over-paid leclair because of the lindros fiasco. to not pay leclair at the time would have been bad pr for the flyers. and look at just how good leclair has been with that 9 mil salary. this is first year he has played half decent in a while.

i probably wasn't as clear as i should have been. the point i am trying to make is these guaranteed contracts are outrageous. it's insane for teams to give them to players. teams should be able to fire a player if he is not meeting performance expectations.

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Old
12-07-2003, 02:04 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyercide
i probably wasn't as clear as i should have been. the point i am trying to make is these guaranteed contracts are outrageous. it's insane for teams to give them to players. teams should be able to fire a player if he is not meeting performance expectations.
And the owners are the ones that gave it to them. Their loss. I'm not going to feel sorry for them.

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Old
12-07-2003, 02:08 PM
  #7
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Originally Posted by Hockeyfan02
Sure now that Hasek has comeback its a bad buisness decision but Detroit at the time needed a goaltender and signed the top goalie availible.
Funny, I thought the best goalie available went to Toronto.

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Old
12-07-2003, 02:56 PM
  #8
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Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
Funny, I thought the best goalie available went to Toronto.
At the time, Belfour was coming off a horrible year so he wasnt the best available.

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Old
12-07-2003, 03:00 PM
  #9
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And Toronto fans were beside themselves in anguish.

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Old
12-07-2003, 03:02 PM
  #10
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Belfour had just come off a rockey season in Dallas though where the stars didn't even make the playoffs and so Detroit went for CuJo.

Bad Move, Eddie is and always was a Top 3 Goalie despite a rockey season in Dallas.

Broduer and Roy were the Obvious#1 & 2's Eddie was #3

now that Roy is gone I'd say belfour is the second best Goalie out there, broduer is still the best though.

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Old
12-07-2003, 03:07 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
Funny, I thought the best goalie available went to Toronto.
Hindsight is 20/20. But the fact of the matter is, Belfour didn't take his team any farther than Joseph did last spring, and I don't think Belfour would keep his job either if he was challenged by Hasek. Bottom line, if I had a hockey team that needed a goalie, I would choose Joseph over billion dollar Belfour. The Leafs did everything they could to keep Joseph, Belfour was just a consolation prize that worked out better than expected.

To answer the question, no, I do not feel bad for Detroit. They did the same stupid thing the yankees do every year: make roster moves to hurt other teams rather than to help their own. The only reason they excercised their option on Hasek was to prevent the Avs from getting him. I'm glad they got burned, they should've been worrying about their own roster. Think they'd be better off with an $8 million per year forward or defenseman and let Hasek have his mediocre year in Colorado?

As for Washington - I have no idea what kind of crack their GM was smoking when he did the Jagr deal, but he obviously passed the pipe right to Millbury, who followed up with the Yashin deal. Both of these teams are now hogtied by those contracts, and Millbury especially payed a huge price in prospects (Chara and Spezza, ugh) The lesson here is clear. The NHL is not a sport that can be dominated by a couple of superstars like the NBA. You need a team. The NHL rewards only hard work, no shortcuts, that goes for roster deceisions too.

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Old
12-07-2003, 04:44 PM
  #12
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Originally Posted by Chock Full Of Booger
And Toronto fans were beside themselves in anguish.
Only the uninformed ones. I thought the Belfour signing was a major improvement. And it was.

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Old
12-07-2003, 04:46 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by Blackjack
Hindsight is 20/20. But the fact of the matter is, Belfour didn't take his team any farther than Joseph did last spring, and I don't think Belfour would keep his job either if he was challenged by Hasek. Bottom line, if I had a hockey team that needed a goalie, I would choose Joseph over billion dollar Belfour. The Leafs did everything they could to keep Joseph, Belfour was just a consolation prize that worked out better than expected.

To answer the question, no, I do not feel bad for Detroit. They did the same stupid thing the yankees do every year: make roster moves to hurt other teams rather than to help their own. The only reason they excercised their option on Hasek was to prevent the Avs from getting him. I'm glad they got burned, they should've been worrying about their own roster. Think they'd be better off with an $8 million per year forward or defenseman and let Hasek have his mediocre year in Colorado?

As for Washington - I have no idea what kind of crack their GM was smoking when he did the Jagr deal, but he obviously passed the pipe right to Millbury, who followed up with the Yashin deal. Both of these teams are now hogtied by those contracts, and Millbury especially payed a huge price in prospects (Chara and Spezza, ugh) The lesson here is clear. The NHL is not a sport that can be dominated by a couple of superstars like the NBA. You need a team. The NHL rewards only hard work, no shortcuts, that goes for roster deceisions too.
you;d pick Jospeh over Belfour? You are a good judge of talent.

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Old
12-07-2003, 04:49 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyfan02
Sure now that Hasek has comeback its a bad buisness decision but Detroit at the time needed a goaltender and signed the top goalie availible. No one, not even Hasek himself, thought he would comeback. In my opinion its Hasek's fault for creating all this mess. If he had stayed after the 02 season, Detroit wouldnt have this mess with Cujo, they wouldnt have needed him.
Why blame Hasek?

The final year was a team option...not like the Wings were forced into it.

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Old
12-07-2003, 07:23 PM
  #15
Blackjack
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Originally Posted by wasting time
you;d pick Jospeh over Belfour? You are a good judge of talent.
Talent? I realize that this is hockey's future, but please tell me you understand that when you are deciding which veteran goalie in his mid 30s to sign for a possible cup run, talent is far from the only qualification. Belfour is a headcase, he is prone to meltdowns (Game 7 2003 ECQF), and he is inconsistant. In my eyes, Belfour is now like Checkmanek. Good skill, talented, will put up gaudy numbers. But would I want to rely on the guy in the playoffs? 5 years ago, absolutely. Today? Hell no.

But it doesn't matter. Joseph's relevent nhl career is probably over. All I can say is, if I'm a UFA, I think LONG and HARD about signing with Detroit. They obviously have no problem wrecking your career.

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Old
12-07-2003, 10:13 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by Chock Full Of Booger
And Toronto fans were beside themselves in anguish.
*SOME* Toronto fans were beside themselves in anguish. Others figured that Eddie still had lots of magic left in him and that his positional style would serve him well as an aging goaltender compared to reflex-heavy Joseph.

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Old
12-08-2003, 08:36 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyercide
Anyone else feel sorry for owners like Detroit or Washington or any other team that signed a big name player for $$$ than have the player play way below expectations? 16 million for Joseph to sit for 2 more yrs! That's 1/2 of most teams annual budget. Granted Detroit caused this problem themselves. They didnt learn from the Osgood situation. Nor did they foresee the problem of moving big salaries before CBA/lock-out year. And in addition they lowered Joseph's marketability to the point that hardly anyone wants this goalie when year earlier 4 teams were all bidding for his services. Not to mention the goalie market is pretty saturated. I just find it mind-boggling that team's are getting stuck with these huge guaranteed contracts. Why do the owners allow such things? A lot of players are getting the paychecks than not delieving the goods. If I was a owner I'd probably make all salaries incentive goal based. But than theres problems with that too...

heres the latest article that sparked this thread
http://nhl.com/onthefly/news/2003/12/186442.html
Worst all-time - not even close.

It is failing to sign a player by the Rangers' GM Lester Patrick in 1943. I rank this as the greatest blunder of all time - maybe in any sport. The only other one which comes close is the sale of Babe Ruth to the NY Yankees by the Red Sox.

The New York Rangers were holding their pre-season camp in Winnipeg that year and they had invited a prairie boy to come to their camp. After watching him throughout camp Patrick decided he was too scrawny and deemed him injury prone and not worth signing. He sent him back home which may have been just as well because the kid was homesick and had not been away from his rural Saskatchewan home for any length of time. He would play that year for the Saskatoon Lions of the Saskatchewan Junior Hockey League.

The following year he tried out with the Detroit Red Wings and was signed. He was later assigned to one of their minor league affiliates in Omaha, Nebraska. In 1946-47 he made the big club and for 32 years Mr. Hockey, Gordie Howe would prove he not only belonged in professional hockey but would be an elite player and IMHO the greatest of all-time (apologies to Orr and Gretzky). After retiring for two years, he returned to play in the WHA. He would play one more season (1980-81) in the NHL for the Hartford Whalers at the age of 51. He would play in all 80 games and score 15 goals, 26 assists for 41 points and being Gordie he added 42 PIM for good measure.

Not too bad for a scrawny, injury prone kid. If Lester Patrick had signed him, think of what NY Ranger history might have been.

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