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Trade Proposal with the Blues?

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Old
02-06-2007, 10:46 AM
  #26
Prussian_Blue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuckNut
Acutally, his current contract is up this year and he will be an RFA this summer. After his next contract is up he'll be a UFA.
OK, fair enough. You can probably count on your fingers the number of high-profile RFA's that have been traded in recent years. That status doesn't enhance Torres' trade value very much, and actually will probably make him pretty much untradeable.

Setting a player of Torres' caliber as the top of the range is still valid, though.

Petersen = too low.

Torres/similar player = too high.

Find a middle acceptable to both sides. That's why they call 'em "negotiations."

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02-06-2007, 10:52 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meanashell11
That's the one. I officially nominate for worst trade proposal ever.
So make a counter-offer, or not. Doesn't matter to me, either way... but smilies and disparagement by themselves don't make for a particularly cordial atmosphere for discussion.

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02-06-2007, 10:54 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigger
Both 1983 birthdays

Career Stats:
Stempniak: 30 goals, 27 assists, 57 points
Lupul: 55 goals, 53 assists, 108 points

Their points per game is almost identical but Lupul has more experience and has a better shot. Lee is a player and will be for a long time but I would think adding Schremp for Brewer, a UFA, is over payment.
You're probably right, and that's why the talks have sort of moved away from this particular proposal. Thanks for the reasoned and rational discussion, though.

BTW, love the avatar and the signature. Carrie Underwood... mmm, mmm.

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02-06-2007, 11:13 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post

That is certainly plausible. Gilbert is interesting, Roy not so much. Neither are great skaters, from what I hear, but Gilbert seems to be a little ahead of Roy in that department.

Winchester is a known quantity, and not without value. Mikhnov is interesting, but his recent return to Russia is a giant red flag. McDonald, from all indications, is a goal scorer, a sniper who has racked up more goals than assists in every year but one at Providence.

Gilbert, McDonald, and Anaheim's 1st for Brewer and Dvorak seems like a sound basis upon which to begin negotiations, and is very close to a final package that would be acceptable to both sides. Depending on where the second-round picks fall, it might be of more value to take Gilbert, McDonald, and the two second-round picks offered instead.

That's a proposal with value, and that's how negotiations get done. Not with "biglaugh" smilies and willful disingenuousness.

P_B

I think that's pretty close to a fair value. I'd rather change out Gilbert with Winchester, but I don't see that happening.

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02-06-2007, 12:06 PM
  #30
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While Dvo has few rivals as a shooter with the hardness of his hands, he is undervalued by many. Stoll & Torres did very well points wise last year when Dvo carried the puck up ice for them. Dvo didn't have a great statistical season, but he was responsible for some of that line's success. I think of him as a similarily good defensive player to Pisani while being a better skater and much poorer finisher.

Dvo is a very good skater and was one of the few forwards actually capable of carrying the puck out of his zone last season, something that shouldn't be forgotten. We don't have many guys like that now, outside of Hemsky.

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Old
02-06-2007, 12:46 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5Whole View Post
While Dvo has few rivals as a shooter with the hardness of his hands, he is undervalued by many. Stoll & Torres did very well points wise last year when Dvo carried the puck up ice for them. Dvo didn't have a great statistical season, but he was responsible for some of that line's success. I think of him as a similarily good defensive player to Pisani while being a better skater and much poorer finisher.

Dvo is a very good skater and was one of the few forwards actually capable of carrying the puck out of his zone last season, something that shouldn't be forgotten. We don't have many guys like that now, outside of Hemsky.
I'm not going to get into the whole hornets nest of what to offer the Blues, but I have to say, getting Dvo and Brewer back could be just what the Oils need. Pick up an offensive Dman at the deadline and we could be set.

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02-06-2007, 12:54 PM
  #32
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Why is it that people always try to trade pending UFA's for top line players? It's not that hard to understand: you don't get Lupul with a 3 year contract in exchange for a "good" dman who can go wherever the hell he wants in 30 games. This is not sensible. Not even remotely.

edit: I realize this is no longer the suggested trade in the discussion but I'm, nonetheless, baffled by the original proposal.

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Old
02-06-2007, 01:27 PM
  #33
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ok then Backman,brewer,kana for Lupal, schremp

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Old
02-06-2007, 01:53 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuckNut
I think that's pretty close to a fair value. I'd rather change out Gilbert with Winchester, but I don't see that happening.
Some of my fellow Blues' fans agree with that assessment, PuckNut.

What about Winchester, McDonald, Anahiem's first this year, and the lower of your two-second rounders in 2008 for Brewer and Dvorak (the second-rounder conditional upon at least one of Brewer/Dvorak re-signing with Edmonton in the summer)?

The Blues would probably also be willing to add an Alexei Shkotov or a Viktor Alexandrov type of prospect to help even things out, in the event that the second-rounder does get included in the deal.



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02-06-2007, 02:14 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
Obviously, I'm being sarcastic, but I think you get the point. Neither you, nor I, nor anyone else who doesn't occupy one of 30 GM chairs can state with such conviction and certainty what Player "X" will command on the open market.
That's kind of a weird semantic high horse for you to get on after saying that Brewer is clearly worth that first round pick, plus. Same with allowing yourself the luxury of sarcasm, but taking others to task for not keeping the discussion cordial enough. I would say that spending the amount of time you have on picking apart the way others argue or phrase their arguments sucks far more energy out of the conversation.

Of course, now I'm doing it. Moving on... do you really value Lupul that much lower than Stempniak that you would refuse Brewer for Schremp? What has Brewer done in St. Louis or his career to garner so much value?

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02-06-2007, 02:18 PM
  #36
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Some of my fellow Blues' fans agree with that assessment, PuckNut.

What about Winchester, McDonald, Anahiem's first this year, and the lower of your two-second rounders in 2008 for Brewer and Dvorak (the second-rounder conditional upon at least one of Brewer/Dvorak re-signing with Edmonton in the summer)?

The Blues would probably also be willing to add an Alexei Shkotov or a Viktor Alexandrov type of prospect to help even things out, in the event that the second-rounder does get included in the deal.
The fact that Edmonton let Dvorak go for nothing last years makes it hard to beleive they would give up squat for him. Anyway, I don't see the Blues having any interest in McDonald who has only averaged around 10 goals a year in his college career. (has 10 right now) And last year we offered D-mac for Winchester which edmonton accepted. Dvorak is better IMO than D-Mac maybe it doesn't show in the scoring sheet but I think so. Wouldn't do that either. So then it comes down to Brewer for a 1st rounder which I would certainly hold off on because if we don't end up signing him a better offer would most likely come along.

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02-06-2007, 02:23 PM
  #37
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That's kind of a weird semantic high horse for you to get on after saying that Brewer is clearly worth that first round pick, plus. Same with allowing yourself the luxury of sarcasm, but taking others to task for not keeping the discussion cordial enough. I would say that spending the amount of time you have on picking apart the way others argue or phrase their arguments sucks far more energy out of the conversation.

Of course, now I'm doing it. Moving on... do you really value Lupul that much lower than Stempniak that you would refuse Brewer for Schremp? What has Brewer done in St. Louis or his career to garner so much value?
i don't think its the fact that Blues fans think that much higher of Stempy but the fact that we already know exactly what we are getting in Stempy(heart,good attitude,gritty,physical, great shot, and loved by fans) Doesn't make sense for us to trade him. Brewer for Schremp would be great but not at the expense of Stempy who the fans are attached to and right now the Blues organization should not only be focused on building a good young core of players but they have to be careful of who they trade away and how the fans would react. JMO

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02-06-2007, 02:27 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sometimesugottorace View Post
i don't think its the fact that Blues fans think that much higher of Stempy but the fact that we already know exactly what we are getting in Stempy(heart,good attitude,gritty,physical, great shot, and loved by fans) Doesn't make sense for us to trade him. Brewer for Schremp would be great but not at the expense of Stempy who the fans are attached to and right now the Blues organization should not only be focused on building a good young core of players but they have to be careful of who they trade away and how the fans would react. JMO
That makes a lot of sense.

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02-06-2007, 02:35 PM
  #39
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what doesn't make sense?? lol Lupol for Stempy is pointless. Fans by tickets to watch stempy play. Pretty much a wash talent wise. Schremp for Brewer is basically Brewer for a 1st rounder. Again why would we give up stempy just to get a first rounder for Brewer when we don't have to???

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02-06-2007, 02:54 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meanashell11 View Post
That's the one. I officially nominate for worst trade proposal ever.
Agreed. Even at his currently level of production Lupul still out guns Dvorak.

The Blues would have to be clinically insane to give up a like Stempniak for an unproven prospect like Shremp.

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02-06-2007, 03:03 PM
  #41
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Eric Brewer won't help oilers in any way. He is one dimensional defenseman, physical. I remember he played very poor on defense when he was an oilers. I rather have Aucion than Brewer.

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02-06-2007, 05:06 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonQuixote
Moving on... do you really value Lupul that much lower than Stempniak that you would refuse Brewer for Schremp? What has Brewer done in St. Louis or his career to garner so much value?
It's not a question of valuing Stempniak more than Lupul; it's a question of what Schremp's value truly is.

Color me largely unimpressed with Schremp's rookie pro season this year. I'm confident that the Blues, if they wish to deal Brewer rather than re-sign him, can get a more well-rounded prospect and/or a first-round pick for Jarmo Kekalainen to use on a player that he thinks will fit the Blues' system. I think there is some legitimate dispute as to wether the one-dimensional Schremp would fit into the system that the Blues are building here.

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02-06-2007, 06:12 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
Find something in the middle, then. That's what adults do, rather than posting "biglaugh" smilies and taking a few words out of context in an entire series of posts...
Thats what adults do? What the hell do you know about that? I offered Peterson and you jumped down my throat. So when we get on your case about Torres, now we are supposed to be "adults" and play nice. Hey buddy, you started it.

As for taking it our of context... Where the hell did I do that? I posted the whole convo here for EVERYONE to say. Please show me where I took ANYTHING out of context. Oh yeah, i just copied and pasted your posts/ You are the one trying to spin YOUR posts into making it look like you said something intelligent.

POT meet KETTLE!

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02-06-2007, 06:16 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
Some of my fellow Blues' fans agree with that assessment, PuckNut.

What about Winchester, McDonald, Anahiem's first this year, and the lower of your two-second rounders in 2008 for Brewer and Dvorak (the second-rounder conditional upon at least one of Brewer/Dvorak re-signing with Edmonton in the summer)?

The Blues would probably also be willing to add an Alexei Shkotov or a Viktor Alexandrov type of prospect to help even things out, in the event that the second-rounder does get included in the deal.



P_B


Keep DVO... we let him walk this summer, why the hell would we give up anything for him back?

How about lets try making a GOOD trade proposal here.

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Old
02-06-2007, 06:33 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by stangconv View Post
Keep DVO... we let him walk this summer, why the hell would we give up anything for him back?

How about lets try making a GOOD trade proposal here.
Because it was a mistake to let him walk.

There's alot more to a player than just how many goals they score. Dvorak was the only RW other than Pisani that didn't get killed by good opposition 5-on-5, was actaully able to skate the puck out of the zone (how much could we use someone with THAT ability this season?), and was one of our better penalty killers while he was here. Our roster at the moment could really use a player like him, as we have far too many one dimensional players, and forwards that need sheltering than guys like Dvo who can play the tough minutes.

He also loved being an Oiler, and was well liked by everyone in the room, as was quite evident when he first played us in Edmonton.

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02-06-2007, 06:41 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by misfit View Post
Because it was a mistake to let him walk.

There's alot more to a player than just how many goals they score. Dvorak was the only RW other than Pisani that didn't get killed by good opposition 5-on-5, was actaully able to skate the puck out of the zone (how much could we use someone with THAT ability this season?), and was one of our better penalty killers while he was here. Our roster at the moment could really use a player like him, as we have far too many one dimensional players, and forwards that need sheltering than guys like Dvo who can play the tough minutes.

He also loved being an Oiler, and was well liked by everyone in the room, as was quite evident when he first played us in Edmonton.
This is very much true. But I would rather just sign him in the offseason then trade anything for him right now. (if we feel we need him)

What was the status on Brewer? Did he like being an Oiler? Would it be hard to sign him in the offseason?

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02-06-2007, 06:53 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by stangconv View Post
This is very much true. But I would rather just sign him in the offseason then trade anything for him right now. (if we feel we need him)

What was the status on Brewer? Did he like being an Oiler? Would it be hard to sign him in the offseason?

I don't know about the rest, but the last bit, it seems he is one of the more premier Defensive-Dman out on the market if he reaches, and will probably as for (massive guess on my part) between $3.0 -4.5 Mil. And us signing him would be near impossible seeing our self-imposed cap and our need for the most expensive kind of D-man.....a top pairing true #1 D-man.

Other Defensive D-man:

Rivet
Sean O'Donnell
Vitaly Vishnevski
Greg De Vries
Andy Sutton
Teppo Numminen
Ken Klee
Ossi Vaananen
Jaroslav Modry
Darryl Sydor
Chris Chelios
Danny Markov (really want him!)
Aaron Miller

you get the point...

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02-06-2007, 06:59 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
I don't know about the rest, but the last bit, it seems he is one of the more premier Defensive-Dman out on the market if he reaches, and will probably as for (massive guess on my part) between $3.0 -4.5 Mil. And us signing him would be near impossible seeing our self-imposed cap and our need for the most expensive kind of D-man.....a top pairing true #1 D-man.

Other Defensive D-man:

Rivet
Sean O'Donnell
Vitaly Vishnevski
Greg De Vries
Andy Sutton
Teppo Numminen
Ken Klee
Ossi Vaananen
Jaroslav Modry
Darryl Sydor
Chris Chelios
Danny Markov (really want him!)
Aaron Miller

you get the point...
Yeah I was just wondering if it could be kinda a Reasoner sort of thing. I mean if he liked playing here, he might be interested in coming back?

I dont think Reasoner had any doubt about where he was gonna try and sign...

Edit: I know that its not the same.... but you get the idea

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