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Samsonov on Waivers

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Old
02-06-2007, 02:10 PM
  #276
Rise from the Ashes
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Ian Laperriere would be awesome as well. I think our team needs one more skilled center and then we need to add more grit and character and we are set.

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02-06-2007, 02:11 PM
  #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach_9 View Post
They've already paid him until this point. Sending him through re-entry waivers only means they'll have to pay half of his remaining salary, while the team claiming him picks up the other half, correct? He's already been paid for the 53 or so games played. I think we're talking about a roughly $1m cap hit that turns into $.5m if he goes through re-entry, right? If someone wanted him, I bet Gainey would do it.
It's on a "per day" basis, not on a "per game" basis. Right now Samsonov counts about $1.17 million for the rest of the season. Assuming he clears tomorrow and is assigned immediately, the soonest anyone could claim him on recall waivers would be Friday - and it would be about $556,000 to both sides for the rest of the season.

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Originally Posted by Dave98 View Post
so wait.. is he not on a one way contract? Why would sending him down clear cap space?
*sigh* Because unless you're in the 2nd or later year of a multi-year contract that you signed at age 35 or older, players in the minors (even those on one-way contracts) don't count against the cap.

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02-06-2007, 02:11 PM
  #278
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so wait.. is he not on a one way contract? Why would sending him down clear cap space?

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02-06-2007, 02:11 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by ranold26 View Post
Making 4m in the AHL isn't punishment, its called vacation and called terrible asset management by the Canadiens.
It's not even exactly punishment. The best asset management in this situation is to keep ALL of the cap room open, which means he can go ahead and make $3.525M in the minors, and we can use $3.525M to try to resign our UFAs (Markov, Souray, Rivet, Bonk, Johnson). Or to sign others. THAT is the best asset management available in this situation.

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02-06-2007, 02:12 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Dave98 View Post
so wait.. is he not on a one way contract? Why would sending him down clear cap space?
As per the CBA, anyone in the minors doesn't count against the cap so long as they've cleared waivers.

edit: and they aren't subject to the "over 35" rule.

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02-06-2007, 02:12 PM
  #281
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Please Isles, Pick him up.

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02-06-2007, 02:14 PM
  #282
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Please Isles, Pick him up.
Really?

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02-06-2007, 02:18 PM
  #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
It's on a "per day" basis, not on a "per game" basis. Right now Samsonov counts about $1.17 million for the rest of the season. Assuming he clears tomorrow and is assigned immediately, the soonest anyone could claim him on recall waivers would be Friday - and it would be about $556,000 to both sides for the rest of the season.
So I had it for the most part. I've always been a little vague on the specifics of that, but now I'm am less so. Either way, the Habs have already paid him nearly $2.25m. If he is claimed, the remaining cap hit wouldn't be so great that I could see Gainey refusing it... at the same time, if relations are really horrible between Sammy and the Habs, perhaps I'll be proven wrong.

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02-06-2007, 02:21 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Marc-E- View Post
You're right. He mades a couple of mistakes; giving a 7 millions contract for two years; signing Ribeiro for 1.9 millions and after it trading him for Niinimaa. No ones will tell you they miss Ribeiro, for me I'm happay that he's gone, but adding Niinimaa was brutal. It's a fact that proves that he was wrong.
He overpaid Koivu too.

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02-06-2007, 02:23 PM
  #285
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He overpaid Koivu too.

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02-06-2007, 02:25 PM
  #286
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Please Isles, Pick him up.
Did you happen to watch Saturday's game? He was brutal.

No thanks.

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02-06-2007, 02:28 PM
  #287
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If he clears, his 3.5 clears and I think that gives the Habs ample cap space for Forsberg (IB help me out on this one buddy?) I think that's what this move is all about.

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02-06-2007, 02:30 PM
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Do_The_Trotsky View Post
He overpaid Koivu too.
yeah thats why our team sucks so much !

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Old
02-06-2007, 02:32 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by isles52480 View Post
Did you happen to watch Saturday's game? He was brutal.

No thanks.
Please don't use that game as a benchmark, EVERYBODY in a Habs sweater was brutal.

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02-06-2007, 02:34 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
As per the CBA, anyone in the minors doesn't count against the cap so long as they've cleared waivers.

edit: and they aren't subject to the "over 35" rule.
can anyone actually refer me to where it says this in the CBA?

It doesn't make sense to me that it would be so easy to clear someone's cap hit like that.

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02-06-2007, 02:52 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by Devilsfanatic View Post
If he clears, his 3.5 clears and I think that gives the Habs ample cap space for Forsberg (IB help me out on this one buddy?) I think that's what this move is all about.
I'm still trying to wade through whether or not a player counts against the cap when he's on waivers and/or once he clears. However, if he clears and gets assigned to the AHL, ....



... uh-oh, you might be on to something here.

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02-06-2007, 02:56 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
I'm still trying to wade through whether or not a player counts against the cap when he's on waivers and/or once he clears. However, if he clears and gets assigned to the AHL, ....



... uh-oh, you might be on to something here.
You likely know better than I, but my understanding was that if a player isn't affected by the "over 35" rule, and isn't on an NHL roster, their salary isn't counted toward the salary cap for the duration they aren't on the roster.
I would think a players salary is still on the books while they're on waivers, though I don't recall reading that exactly.

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02-06-2007, 03:00 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by Dave98 View Post
can anyone actually refer me to where it says this in the CBA?

It doesn't make sense to me that it would be so easy to clear someone's cap hit like that.
It is that easy...they tried to make it harder originally but apparently they got into labor disputes with other player unions who claimed it would hurt their ability to get players in the AHL and ECHL who are not signed to NHL teams fair wages. It was scrapped in order to avoid the lawsuit and bad press. As a result, the rule is simplistic and does little to prevent teams from circumventing the spirit of the salary cap. The CBA is in PDF form on the NHLPA website if you care to download the document and search through it.

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02-06-2007, 03:00 PM
  #294
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If Samsonov gets sent to the AHL and plays out the year there, can he report to a training camp and make a team next year without clearing waivers? I've read the pertinent sections of the CBA ,and to be honest I'm not really sure. My gut feeling is that he can, I think lots of prospects like Hainsey and Hossa a couple years ago moved up to the bigs without clearing waivers when they became too old to play in the AHL without clearing waivers.

So my understanding is that next year he'll have to clear waivers (again) to play in the AHL, but not in the NHL. Could someone confirm or refute that for me?

The reason I ask, is if he doesn't have to do the re-entry waivers to play next year, it's conceivable that he might get traded in the off-season. I figure the habs would be reluctant to put him on re-entry waivers because they don't want the ~1.775 cap hit next year, and no other team would trade for him if they also had to put him on re-entry waivers, because then they would be stuck with the hit for no reason. But if he doesn't have to clear, a team could just trade for him and keep him around. Not that he would have any value, but it would at least be a window for Montreal to unload him without a cap hit.

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Old
02-06-2007, 03:02 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
You likely know better than I, but my understanding was that if a player isn't affected by the "over 35" rule, and isn't on an NHL roster, their salary isn't counted toward the salary cap for the duration they aren't on the roster.
I would think a players salary is still on the books while they're on waivers, though I don't recall reading that exactly.
That's my understanding, and that's how I've been calculating it since I started.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave98 View Post
can anyone actually refer me to where it says this in the CBA?

It doesn't make sense to me that it would be so easy to clear someone's cap hit like that.
See Article 50.9(g). If that's not good enough, see Article 50.5(d)(i)(B), the examples set out for Article 50.10(d), and the definitions of "Active Roster" and "Loaned" in Article 1.

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02-06-2007, 03:03 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
I'm still trying to wade through whether or not a player counts against the cap when he's on waivers and/or once he clears. However, if he clears and gets assigned to the AHL, ....



... uh-oh, you might be on to something here.
The full hit is against the cap, regardless of being on the pro-roster or on waivers......UNTIL he clears/re-assigned or is claimed, boughtout or traded?
That is my understanding.

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02-06-2007, 03:05 PM
  #297
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BTW ... since no one has offered a trade proposal for him:

Petr Cajanek for Sergei Samsonov. Straight up.

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02-06-2007, 03:09 PM
  #298
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for what its worth... someone on Hockeybuzz claims that Samsonov was picked up by Nashville. the same guy however has followed that up with a rather wacky and convoluted trade rumor invovling both Bertuzzi and Forsberg to Montreal, so stay tuned... i suppose


http://www.hockeybuzz.com/boards/thr...hread_id=12304

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02-06-2007, 03:12 PM
  #299
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Originally Posted by wabwat View Post
for what its worth... someone on Hockeybuzz claims that Samsonov was picked up by Nashville. the same guy however has followed that up with a rather wacky and convoluted trade rumor invovling both Bertuzzi and Forsberg to Montreal, so stay tuned... i suppose


http://www.hockeybuzz.com/boards/thr...hread_id=12304



Nashville could not have picked him up already. They may have put in a claim but they would not have picked him up already.


You may also want to check the username of the person who posted it.

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02-06-2007, 03:13 PM
  #300
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Originally Posted by wabwat View Post
for what its worth... someone on Hockeybuzz claims that Samsonov was picked up by Nashville. the same guy however has followed that up with a rather wacky and convoluted trade rumor invovling both Bertuzzi and Forsberg to Montreal, so stay tuned... i suppose


http://www.hockeybuzz.com/boards/thr...hread_id=12304
look at the guy's username......

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