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Samsonov on waivers

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Old
02-06-2007, 11:44 AM
  #1
Guy Legend
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Samsonov on waivers

The news is being reported on Leafs Lunch radio and hockeycentral (sportsnet).

The question is, would you want to pick him up? He makes $3.525 million this season and next. We have the cap room and will have more once we move a Tkachuk or Guerin down the road. Last season, he had 53 points in 74 games. This season struggling with Montreal, he has only 22 points in 52 games.....

IMO, this could be a great way to keep the offense and fan interest alive for at least the remainder of this season, as we likely unload a couple of guys at the deadline.

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02-06-2007, 11:54 AM
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maybe it is the fanboy in me, but I think you take a jump at this. Its probably a bust but I think this is a risk worth taking and if we can afford the salary the potential upside is good.

How are Chicago, LA, Columbus, Boston, Florida and Philly capwise?

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02-06-2007, 12:05 PM
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No, I don't want him. Not at $3.525 million next year as well. On recall waivers? Maybe - but not at his full cap hit.

Boston and Philadelphia don't have the cap space to pick him up as is, both would be wedged tight under the cap if they even tried on recall waivers.

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02-06-2007, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
No, I don't want him. Not at $3.525 million next year as well. On recall waivers? Maybe - but not at his full cap hit.

Boston and Philadelphia don't have the cap space to pick him up as is, both would be wedged tight under the cap if they even tried on recall waivers.
Have we gained so much salary for next year that Samsonov at 3.525 is too much? When he's good, he's top 6 and since most likely we are going to lose some of our UFA's next year, is Samsonov at that price better than what Tkachuk might want to return? Or Guerin? Or any of the other FA's for next season that we have to lure to St. Louis with higher salaries because the immediate future isn't so bright?

On this one, I don't even think you wait for recall waivers, you pull the trigger to get Samsonov wrapped up for next season at 3.5 and a song.

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02-06-2007, 12:49 PM
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Save the room for Drury or Briere, if you bring Walt and Guerin back you're not going to have a TON of room. Maybe at 1/2 price, but if you're going to sell a bunch of assets, you might as well play for the high pick.

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02-06-2007, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaphodBeeblebrox View Post
Have we gained so much salary for next year that Samsonov at 3.525 is too much? When he's good, he's top 6 and since most likely we are going to lose some of our UFA's next year, is Samsonov at that price better than what Tkachuk might want to return? Or Guerin? Or any of the other FA's for next season that we have to lure to St. Louis with higher salaries because the immediate future isn't so bright?

On this one, I don't even think you wait for recall waivers, you pull the trigger to get Samsonov wrapped up for next season at 3.5 and a song.
What he said. When Samsonov is on, he is dynamite. It's not like the guy is old and fading, it's a bad season. I say pick him up and stick him alongside Weight and Guerin.

c'mon leery and jd, dooo ittt!!

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02-06-2007, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MU_Beerman View Post
Save the room for Drury or Briere, if you bring Walt and Guerin back you're not going to have a TON of room. Maybe at 1/2 price, but if you're going to sell a bunch of assets, you might as well play for the high pick.
Drury and Briere will command way too much as UFAs, and we'll probably STILL have to overpay to get them on board. That said, there will be some cap room even if Samsonov is added, if we trade any 2 or 3 of Brewer, Dvorak, Drake, Guerin, Tkachuk, or Salvador, it should cover Samsonov's 3.5M cap hit.

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02-06-2007, 01:01 PM
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I stay FAR away from Samsanov if I'm JD............

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02-06-2007, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaphodBeeblebrox View Post
Have we gained so much salary for next year that Samsonov at 3.525 is too much? When he's good, he's top 6 and since most likely we are going to lose some of our UFA's next year, is Samsonov at that price better than what Tkachuk might want to return? Or Guerin? Or any of the other FA's for next season that we have to lure to St. Louis with higher salaries because the immediate future isn't so bright?

On this one, I don't even think you wait for recall waivers, you pull the trigger to get Samsonov wrapped up for next season at 3.5 and a song.
It's not a matter of "do we have the cap space" - that's not a problem. I think it's a perfectly fair question to ask whether Samsonov is going to get back to form wearing the Bluenote. Having cap space is extremely valuable these days - it can allow you to go after players other teams can't. You don't just throw that at a guy just because you can, and you certainly don't throw it at an underachiever like Samsonov just because.

No one is going to claim him right now at full price - but on recall waivers, there would currently be only five teams (Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Chicago, Columbus, Florida) who would have a shot at him before us. If we win tonight, at worst Boston, Phoenix and Washington would move underneath us. Boston and Philly don't have the cap space, and the only team that might take a flyer on him is Phoenix and that's even questionable. Los Angeles certainly isn't going to touch him; I doubt Chicago does either without making a trade, Columbus won't touch him, Florida would probably pass, ... why take him at full price when you could possibly get him for half?

That said, it's more than likely that the Habs will trade him in the next couple of days rather than send him down and recall him to try and get rid of him - in which case if you really want him, choose one of our underachieving, overpaid players (Cajanek?) and send them to Montreal.

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02-06-2007, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
It's not a matter of "do we have the cap space" - that's not a problem. I think it's a perfectly fair question to ask whether Samsonov is going to get back to form wearing the Bluenote. Having cap space is extremely valuable these days - it can allow you to go after players other teams can't. You don't just throw that at a guy just because you can, and you certainly don't throw it at an underachiever like Samsonov just because.

No one is going to claim him right now at full price - but on recall waivers, there would currently be only five teams (Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Chicago, Columbus, Florida) who would have a shot at him before us. If we win tonight, at worst Boston, Phoenix and Washington would move underneath us. Boston and Philly don't have the cap space, and the only team that might take a flyer on him is Phoenix and that's even questionable. Los Angeles certainly isn't going to touch him; I doubt Chicago does either without making a trade, Columbus won't touch him, Florida would probably pass, ... why take him at full price when you could possibly get him for half?

That said, it's more than likely that the Habs will trade him in the next couple of days rather than send him down and recall him to try and get rid of him - in which case if you really want him, choose one of our underachieving, overpaid players (Cajanek?) and send them to Montreal.
Samsonov for Cajanek? done and done.

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02-06-2007, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
It's not a matter of "do we have the cap space" - that's not a problem. I think it's a perfectly fair question to ask whether Samsonov is going to get back to form wearing the Bluenote. Having cap space is extremely valuable these days - it can allow you to go after players other teams can't. You don't just throw that at a guy just because you can, and you certainly don't throw it at an underachiever like Samsonov just because.

No one is going to claim him right now at full price - but on recall waivers, there would currently be only five teams (Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Chicago, Columbus, Florida) who would have a shot at him before us. If we win tonight, at worst Boston, Phoenix and Washington would move underneath us. Boston and Philly don't have the cap space, and the only team that might take a flyer on him is Phoenix and that's even questionable. Los Angeles certainly isn't going to touch him; I doubt Chicago does either without making a trade, Columbus won't touch him, Florida would probably pass, ... why take him at full price when you could possibly get him for half?

That said, it's more than likely that the Habs will trade him in the next couple of days rather than send him down and recall him to try and get rid of him - in which case if you really want him, choose one of our underachieving, overpaid players (Cajanek?) and send them to Montreal.
Hi Irish,

You state no one is going to take him at full price right now. but wouldn't it only be a % of his salary since a portion of the season has passed? Similar to trading for a guy at the deadline and only adding the remaining portion of his salary. Thanks in advance.

Cyber

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02-06-2007, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Legend View Post
The news is being reported on Leafs Lunch radio and hockeycentral (sportsnet).

The question is, would you want to pick him up? He makes $3.525 million this season and next. We have the cap room and will have more once we move a Tkachuk or Guerin down the road. Last season, he had 53 points in 74 games. This season struggling with Montreal, he has only 22 points in 52 games.....

IMO, this could be a great way to keep the offense and fan interest alive for at least the remainder of this season, as we likely unload a couple of guys at the deadline.
I may look at bringing him in we have a lot of cap room

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02-06-2007, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberslacker View Post
Hi Irish,

You state no one is going to take him at full price right now. but wouldn't it only be a % of his salary since a portion of the season has passed? Similar to trading for a guy at the deadline and only adding the remaining portion of his salary. Thanks in advance.

Cyber
Also, don't forget it is the number of games, not the number of days, right IB?

Cap room is valuable. I honestly do not believe we sign alot of top end FA's in the offseason, just more scrubs and thus we'll have the room.

eh, I think we should. we'll see if anybody does.

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02-06-2007, 05:42 PM
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The only reason I say do this is the same reason we signed Guerin. To see if he can come back after having a rough time.

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02-06-2007, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ZaphodBeeblebrox View Post
Also, don't forget it is the number of games, not the number of days, right IB?
You have it backwards - the cap is calculated on a daily basis, not on a per-game basis. An easy way to remember this is that during the season, teams haven't played the same number of games - they have been part of the season the same number of days.

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02-06-2007, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberslacker View Post
Hi Irish,

You state no one is going to take him at full price right now. but wouldn't it only be a % of his salary since a portion of the season has passed? Similar to trading for a guy at the deadline and only adding the remaining portion of his salary. Thanks in advance.

Cyber
Yes...and no. This year we would only be taking on a percentage of his cap hit, which would sound like a good bargain and I assume other lower teams with room under the cap would actually grab him first, try him out, and if he works try to resign him at a decent rate.

However, he has another year on that contract, and we would be set to have the entire $3mil+ on our books. A big gamble for a guy you aren't sure will do anything for you, unless Montreal eats some of our wasted salary.

Cap room is not something to be tossed around when you have it. Samsonov looks new and shiny and flashy, the scorer we need. However, his last two years in Boston were nothing special, and he wasn't exactly tearing it up in Edmonton (Although he wasn't horrible either). In any case, he hasn't exactly been the Samsonov everyone thought he would be. I think some people who are anxious to grab him and forget the cap space are thinking back to the young Samsonon full of potential to be one of the league's elite. Instead, Samsonov is what he is, a 20 goal scorer for the last 3 years (Well, probably not this year) who has loads of talent but isn't using it.

I seem to recall a few players like that. Varlamov, Tkaczuk, Sejna, Shishkanov, etc etc. All of these guys, and I'm sure people could come up with more, were supposed to be very talented players, and they were. However, they just didn't get it done. Do we really need another player like that in Samsonov, and at that price?

Don't forget we are currently trying to operate at a level where we still get revenue sharing. We bump up payroll, we lose revenue sharing, we lose more money = bad news for Blues.

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02-06-2007, 09:56 PM
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My question: if we pick him up on re-entry waivers, does the next year get a discount also?

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02-06-2007, 10:25 PM
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My question: if we pick him up on re-entry waivers, does the next year get a discount also?
Yes. Tampa is getting that benefit with Andre Roy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Berg8309 View Post
Don't forget we are currently trying to operate at a level where we still get revenue sharing. We bump up payroll, we lose revenue sharing, we lose more money = bad news for Blues.
Actually, it's not tied to payroll like I thought it was. The first round is strictly tied to revenues (subject to the team not being in one of the 15 biggest markets); if using the formulas in the CBA the team has revenues that allow it to be able to afford a certain level of payroll, it can't get any of the first batch. (The Blues are pretty safe here, they'll get a full share.)

The second batch pays out first to teams whose Actual Club Salary is less than the midpoint, then (if there's still money left over) equally among the 30 teams. For the record, only Washington and Pittsburgh are on target to finish with a final total cap number under the midpoint, and Pittsburgh is within $150,000 or so assuming all bonuses pay out ... but with escrow where it is, the Blues will get some money from this batch as well.

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02-06-2007, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
You have it backwards - the cap is calculated on a daily basis, not on a per-game basis. An easy way to remember this is that during the season, teams haven't played the same number of games - they have been part of the season the same number of days.

I knew I forgot that pesky little sarcasm emoticon...dern it.

just remember, we love you IB.

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12-18-2007, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaphodBeeblebrox View Post
Have we gained so much salary for next year that Samsonov at 3.525 is too much? When he's good, he's top 6 and since most likely we are going to lose some of our UFA's next year, is Samsonov at that price better than what Tkachuk might want to return? Or Guerin? Or any of the other FA's for next season that we have to lure to St. Louis with higher salaries because the immediate future isn't so bright?

On this one, I don't even think you wait for recall waivers, you pull the trigger to get Samsonov wrapped up for next season at 3.5 and a song.
This should silence me on any hockey matters for awhile. Although we are missing his 4 assists this season.

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12-18-2007, 04:30 PM
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This should silence me on any hockey matters for awhile. Although we are missing his 4 assists this season.
Don't feel too bad.

I thought that Backman would improve his trade stock this season.

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12-18-2007, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Guy Legend View Post
The news is being reported on Leafs Lunch radio and hockeycentral (sportsnet).

The question is, would you want to pick him up? He makes $3.525 million this season and next. We have the cap room and will have more once we move a Tkachuk or Guerin down the road. Last season, he had 53 points in 74 games. This season struggling with Montreal, he has only 22 points in 52 games.....

IMO, this could be a great way to keep the offense and fan interest alive for at least the remainder of this season, as we likely unload a couple of guys at the deadline.
No way, no how for me on Samsonov.

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12-18-2007, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Legend View Post
The news is being reported on Leafs Lunch radio and hockeycentral (sportsnet).

The question is, would you want to pick him up? He makes $3.525 million this season and next. We have the cap room and will have more once we move a Tkachuk or Guerin down the road. Last season, he had 53 points in 74 games. This season struggling with Montreal, he has only 22 points in 52 games.....

IMO, this could be a great way to keep the offense and fan interest alive for at least the remainder of this season, as we likely unload a couple of guys at the deadline.
He's down right horrible. I wouldnt even waste your time. Chicago tried to revive his career, it failed. Montreal tried, failed. I wouldnt even bother trying with the guy. Let him go back to Russia, hes craptastic now.

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12-18-2007, 05:11 PM
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c-carp and zetterberg, take a look at the date on that post.

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12-18-2007, 05:11 PM
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No way, no how for me on Samsonov.
Makes two of us, bro. No heart or guts. Skill gone wasted.

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