Sorry if there's a thread going on this already, but here goes.
I've heard that Hamhuis has played prettymuch upto his potential so far this season. Can anyone offer me any insight to how the kid has played, and where you'd rank him currently on your defense?
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Sorry if there's a thread going on this already, but here goes.
I've heard that Hamhuis has played prettymuch upto his potential so far this season. Can anyone offer me any insight to how the kid has played, and where you'd rank him currently on your defense?
Well, it is fluctuating. Hamhuis hasn't established himself in the NHL yet but he is playing well above expectations. His offensive game is still maturing and his defensive game shows signs of positional brillaince. He is still too weak right now to be what he needs to be but time will tell. He's still a little green out there and rushes passes sometimes. He is usually in the right position but will get muscled out of the way often. When not rushing himself (oddly, other players are not what rushes Hammy, just himself), he makes great passes from any spot on the ice. He has a blast of a shot but rarely ever uses it.
Right now, it goes something like...
Timonen
Eaton
York (played a lot better recently)
Zidlicky/Hamhuis - Hammy is better defensively/Zids better offensively. The slight nod goes to Zids
Allison - a pylon.
When Schnabel comes back, Zids and Hammy will drop. York will likely drop as well.
Well, it is fluctuating. Hamhuis hasn't established himself in the NHL yet but he is playing well above expectations. His offensive game is still maturing and his defensive game shows signs of positional brillaince. He is still too weak right now to be what he needs to be but time will tell. He's still a little green out there and rushes passes sometimes. He is usually in the right position but will get muscled out of the way often. When not rushing himself (oddly, other players are not what rushes Hammy, just himself), he makes great passes from any spot on the ice. He has a blast of a shot but rarely ever uses it.
Right now, it goes something like...
Timonen
Eaton
York (played a lot better recently)
Zidlicky/Hamhuis - Hammy is better defensively/Zids better offensively. The slight nod goes to Zids
Allison - a pylon.
When Schnabel comes back, Zids and Hammy will drop. York will likely drop as well.
Very good assessment.
I'd like to add something though.
Hammer's presence in the NHL has been felt physically, I feel he's the best hitting d-man we have on the team, and he's only 20. You will see great things from him not only this season, but for many to come.
I disagree with Smokey. I think in every situation except for the powerplay, I'd put Hammy well over Zids, and his ice time reflects this. Actually I'd say Hamhuis is our most versatile defenseman period, and he’s definitely proved he belongs in the NHL.
Hamhuis positional play, and hitting are far above that of the average rookie defenseman. His corner work does need some work but I wouldn't say he's out muscled "often", his size will always limit his ability against the biggest players in the league but his speed and positional play will overcome this along with his ability to use his stick well in the defensive zone, tying his man up, and creating turnovers, he’s has been getting better and better at this each week. In a one on one situation, Hamhuis is probably our best defensive player.
Hamhuis rankings within our defensive group so far.
4th on shorthanded time at 2:44 a game
4th on powerplay time at 1:54 a game
3rd in total shift per game
2nd in total time on ice per game
1st in even strength time per game
3rd in the group in goals
3rd in the group in assist
3rd in the group in points
Tied for 1st in even strength points
At even strength Hamhuis has just as many points as Zidlicky.
Zidlicky is better than Hamhuis on the powerplay but Hamhuis is the better defenseman.
I disagree with Smokey. I think in every situation except for the powerplay, I'd put Hammy well over Zids, and his ice time reflects this. Actually I'd say Hamhuis is our most versatile defenseman period, and he’s definitely proved he belongs in the NHL.
I respectfully disagree. Our most versatile Dman is Eaton. He is our best defensive Dman (by a decent margin) and he's very adept offensively. He's not up to Timonen, Zids, or Hamhuis, but he's more than makes up for it with his defensive play. He'll get tossed around by the likes of Bert, but, unlike Hamhuis, he won't get tossed around by the likes of Francis (see Carolina game). Hamhuis is solid, but he is not spectacular yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman
Hamhuis positional play, and hitting are far above that of the average rookie defenseman. His corner work does need some work but I wouldn't say he's out muscled "often", his size will always limit his ability against the biggest players in the league but his speed and positional play will overcome this along with his ability to use his stick well in the defensive zone, tying his man up, and creating turnovers, he’s has been getting better and better at this each week. In a one on one situation, Hamhuis is probably our best defensive player.
I disagree again. I think Eaton is our best one on one player. If it's one on one at a distance, then yes, Hamhuis is our man. Unfortunately, in today's NHL, one on one involves a level of physicality that Hamhuis has yet to develop. He doesn't have to manhandle Tkachuk and Bertuzzi but he does have to keep from getting outmuscled as much as he does. And while he isn't getting outmuscled 'often' in the sense of time spent on ice divided by times outmuscled, in up close one on one's he is often on the short end of the stick.
I think the Zids <> Hamhuis argument could go either way. I think Zids gives us that dynamic offensively outlet that we sorely need. Up until recently, he had been providing that. If he keeps it up, I'll give him the slight nod.
And, while Trotz generally attempts to sheild Hamhuis from the opposing team's top line, he still is a team worst -9. A lot of that has to do with playing with York and co. but a lot of that is Hamhuis himself.
I will say Eaton may be as good or even a little better but you're wrong about Trotz shielding Hamhuis from anyone, he does make a few mistake but they're correctable and rarely does he do them twice. Again, if he's shielding Hamhuis why would he be on the 2nd penalty kill? How do you shield a guy and still put him on the ice the most at even strenght? How do you shield a guy and give him 28 shifts per game?
I will say Eaton may be as good or even a little better but you're wrong about Trotz shielding Hamhuis from anyone, he does make a few mistake but they're correctable and rarely does he do them twice. Again, if he's shielding Hamhuis why would he be on the 2nd penalty kill? How do you shield a guy and still put him on the ice the most at even strenght? How do you shield a guy and give him 28 shifts per game?
Here is the shift chart for our last home game, I picke the home game because it's a better show if match-ups Trotz wanted as home team get's last change. Notice how often Hamhuis is out there even against Drury, Satan, Briere and Pyatt. Not much "sheilding" going on is there?
Trotz attempts to put Eaton out there against the other teams best line. It's not always possible when Eaton only logs around 20 minutes a night. If you'll notice, Satan and Hamhuis are not on the ice together for most of the second and third. And why list two friggin lines when you make your statement? Of course he can't shield Hamhuis from both the Drury and the Briere lines. If he did that, Hamhuis would see very little ice time. I guess if you list the whole forward lineup you can prove that Trotz isn't sheilding Hamhuis at all. Hamhuis is our second pairing DMan and it seems to me Trotz tried to keep him away from Satan, within reason. He's not going to double shift Eaton just because Satan is though. He saw basically ES 5 shifts with Satan and even less with the top line (Hect, Dumont, Briere).
When compared to Satan, they saw some shifts together early on in the game, very few in the middle, and then one noticeable one at the end.
And, why is he on the second team PK? Well, just who else would we put on there? Allison, Zidlicky? He's not on their because we think the world if his PKing abilities, he's on there because he's the 4th best defensive Dman we have.
Last edited by SmokeyClause: 12-08-2003 at 03:49 PM.
If he's shielding him why put him on the penalty kill at all? Why would he face either of the top two lines if he was sheilding him, should he be plaing against the 3rd and 4th lines? Again why would you put someone you need to shield out there the most at even strenght? Why would someone who hasn't established himself on the NHL level be getting the second most shifts per game?
It's ok Smokey, you don't need Hamhuis to do bad to make your Suter>Hamhuis arguements valid.
If he's shielding him why put him on the penalty kill at all? Why would he face either of the top two lines if he was sheilding him, should he be plaing against the 3rd and 4th lines? Again why would you put someone you need to shield out there the most at even strenght? Why would someone who hasn't established himself on the NHL level be getting the second most shifts per game?
It's ok Smokey, you don't need Hamhuis to do bad to make your Suter>Hamhuis arguements valid.
Yoowho...Smokey didn't make those comments, Poile made those comments after they made the selections in his post draft analysis, he said Suter graded out higher than Hamhuis.
If he's shielding him why put him on the penalty kill at all? Why would he face either of the top two lines if he was sheilding him, should he be plaing against the 3rd and 4th lines?
It's ok Smokey, you don't need Hamhuis to do bad to make your Suter>Hamhuis arguements valid.
I've answered everything your asking here. He's on the 2nd team penalty kill just because we have NO OTHER OPTIONS. He sheilds Hamhuis, but he oftentimes sheilds Zids just more. Like I said, if he plays only against the 3rd and 4th line, then someone like Allison is going to be playing against the top dogs. Just because someone is a top 4 DMan doesn't make them great. He's in our top 4 because he's probably our 4th best dman in his own zone. He's a great prospect, I've never said otherwise. I think he'll be great. Unfortunately, I don't see him getting manhandled by the likes of Ron Francis, turn the other cheek and say, "oh well, he's just a rookie". I see it as a very avoidable goal against. Pardon me for not honoring him as messiah just yet. And, no, he hasn't established himself in the NHL. I think he could easily be sent down if he slumps or has a rough end to the season.
I have no bones with Hamhuis. Like 7NA says, Poile made that initial statement, I'm just reiterating. I think the only one with the unhealthy fixation is you.
Considering that Hamhuis was ticketed for Milwaukee and he now leads all NHL rookie D-men in ice time by almost 100 minutes. He's third amongst the D on the team in points and second D-man in ice time. He's certainly established himself as NHL caliber.
Does he still have things to work on? Yes.
Could he be sent down at some point? Sure but if they didn't have to clear waivers, several others might too.
He's learning the hard way, but he seems to be a quick learner.
He's exceeded expectations so far.
BTW, I do recall Poile saying that Suter graded out higher than Hamhuis. But we'll have to wait and see if either of them reach their full potential.
Considering that Hamhuis was ticketed for Milwaukee and he now leads all NHL rookie D-men in ice time by almost 100 minutes. He's third amongst the D on the team in points and second D-man in ice time. He's certainly established himself as NHL caliber.
Does he still have things to work on? Yes.
Could he be sent down at some point? Sure but if they didn't have to clear waivers, several others might too.
He's learning the hard way, but he seems to be a quick learner.
He's exceeded expectations so far.
BTW, I do recall Poile saying that Suter graded out higher than Hamhuis. But we'll have to wait and see if either of them reach their full potential.
I'm sure Suter did grade out higher than Hamhuis. I would expect most 6th overall picks grade higher than most 12 overall picks. Hamhuis' really made his mark the year following his draft year.
I certainly think Hamhuis is NHL caliber. He may be making a few mistakes, but he is a rookie, and you have to expect that that will happen. He is getting the ice time for a reason IMO, and he certainly deserves to be out there the amount of time he gets.
I certainly think Hamhuis is NHL caliber. He may be making a few mistakes, but he is a rookie, and you have to expect that that will happen. He is getting the ice time for a reason IMO, and he certainly deserves to be out there the amount of time he gets.
Totally agree here...I do think Hammer has looked really good at times..he poke checks opposing forwards better than any D-man we have ever had. He does need to work a bit on his strength, but that will come. D-men develope slower than fowards, so I'm impressed with what he has shown us so far.
