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Old
02-06-2007, 11:19 PM
  #1
dynastydays
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Thread from 09-10-2006

this is a thread I started on 09-10-2006...


Quote:
Originally Posted by dynastydays

Puck moving D, puck seperation and puck retrieval.
Lowe's opinion on the upcoming season is that our forwards are atleast the 2nd or 3rd best in the league this season, definitely the best we have had since the last cup win. He has said our defense, which is a 'puck moving' defence can get the puck up to our fowards quickly and accurately.

My question is, with the loss of Peca, Pronger, Dvorak... the 3 of them being replaced with less defensive types such as Lupul, Sykora, Tjarnqvist... are we going to be a very poor puck retrieval, turnover ratio type of team? Peca/Dvo were great at angles and speed, creating errant passes, turnovers and puck retrieval... Pronger well I neednt expand on him.

If we are an inferior team in that respect, can our 'puck moving' defensemen be effective? Puck posession is the most important factor to an effective offense, if our D and forwards arent really adept to mainting a respectable level turnovers and puck retrieval by sheer construction, then shouldnt this handicap our offense considerably? It seems to me the more time we do not have the puck, we could be in for trouble in our own end.

The dynamic of our team has changed immensely, its an exciting time, and jumping out of an airplane w/o a parachute may be a bit premature... but the small things matter. Seperating the offence from the puck, and winning the battles for loose pucks are two huge aspects that can cut the legs out from under any offsensive juggernaught (thats how we beat San Jose four straight games).

Maybe Peca/Dvo will be missed more than many think.

Maybe we play the left-wing lock this season? Seems to me that may very well be our saving grace, we need to have the puck on our sticks or we may be in for a world of hurt.

Any thoughts?


Considering I'm an armchair fan, how in the hell did I see this coming while the EIG and Pinnochio (Lowe) not see it?

Whos going to be accountable when the ownerships wooden puppet is making them profits, and he cant even fire Craig Simpson?

One of my all-time lows as an Oiler fan tonight. I'm not up there in Lowetide years, but Ive been an avid Oiler fan almost as long as he... The organization has betrayed my loyalty this season. it looks like an absolute gongshow with nobody ready to make any hard decisions in sight.

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02-06-2007, 11:27 PM
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HotToddy
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Your giving yourself a little toom uch credit while denying some things to Lowe and company.

In an effort of fairness;

- Horcoff and Pisani and too a lesser extent Jason Smith suffered serious post playoff hangover.

- Ethan Moreau got hurt

- Lupul and Torres have both underperformed terribly

- MAP, Schremp, Mikhnov, JFJ, Winny, Thoreson .. I'm sure the brass had hopes that at least one of these six would be viable NHLers, hell we all did.

The Oilers had the perfect storm hit them when it came to the forward ranks.

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Old
02-06-2007, 11:30 PM
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dynastydays
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy View Post
Your giving yourself a little toom uch credit while denying some things to Lowe and company.

In an effort of fairness;

- Horcoff and Pisani and too a lesser extent Jason Smith suffered serious post playoff hangover.

- Ethan Moreau got hurt

- Lupul and Torres have both underperformed terribly

- MAP, Schremp, Mikhnov, JFJ, Winny, Thoreson .. I'm sure the brass had hopes that at least one of these six would be viable NHLers, hell we all did.

The Oilers had the perfect storm hit them when it came to the forward ranks.
Youre giving it a little less credit than deserved as well. The failure of the talent up front is very much related to who they have around them and more importantly behind them... very much related.

Puck possession is huge in the NHL. We are built to be one of the least effective puck possession and puck retrieval squads that has ever donned the Oilers logo. How are we supposed to score goals if we cant keep it out of our end, or establish any sustained presence in the other?

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02-06-2007, 11:59 PM
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I think your point about the left wing lock was excellent. MacT and Co should have cracked down hard on this team early and changed the way they play. People would have ehined like crazy but a defense first trap with a counter attack offence would have been better.

As for missing Devo and Peca, as much as it pains me to admit this since I swore a blue strak at them last year we certainly miss there play this year.

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02-07-2007, 12:03 AM
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All you did was state Lowe's opinion, and ask questions.

You're giving yourself too much credit... Anyone can question a move, but to take a stand on an issue and be right is something to be proud of.

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02-07-2007, 12:29 AM
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I was also worried about the loss of Dvorak and Peca, and those fears have been borne out. However, Moreau being injured only compounded our problems. As I said when he was injured, he's one of the few solid 5 on 5 forwards we had. However, the biggest problem with our team has been the powerplay. Neither Dvorak or Peca wold have helped in that regard.We need a defenseman who can play the point on the PP more than anything.

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02-07-2007, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergeron47 View Post
All you did was state Lowe's opinion, and ask questions.

You're giving yourself too much credit... Anyone can question a move, but to take a stand on an issue and be right is something to be proud of.
I'm not asking for a pat on the back here, and 'm not professing to be a hockey genius whatsoever. It goes exactly as stated... I thought that we quite possibly could be in for a tough year because we didnt have the tools to keep the puck on our sticks like we did last year... and if that was true then our D would be exploited, and our offense would be stunted.

Seems pretty accurate to me. It wasn't that difficult to see coming in fact. You take away players that have kept the puck off of the sticks of guys like the Sedins, and replace them with Sykora/Lupul...

Just common sense.

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02-07-2007, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy View Post
Your giving yourself a little toom uch credit while denying some things to Lowe and company.

In an effort of fairness;

- Horcoff and Pisani and too a lesser extent Jason Smith suffered serious post playoff hangover.

- Ethan Moreau got hurt

- Lupul and Torres have both underperformed terribly

- MAP, Schremp, Mikhnov, JFJ, Winny, Thoreson .. I'm sure the brass had hopes that at least one of these six would be viable NHLers, hell we all did.

The Oilers had the perfect storm hit them when it came to the forward ranks.

Horcoff came back to earth, he was and is a 15 goal and 40 point guy, career year in the final year of his deal excluded.

Pisani is play no different that what Pisani always played.

Smith is plain brutal and needs a #1 like Pronger, Chara, Redden, or Lidstrom to make him look good.

Ethan Moreau's injury took his 7 goals and shot to the goalie crest rush ending play out of the line up. After Moreau's injury both his linemates at the time have scored the majority of their goals after his departure, Stoll and Pisani. Not a coincidence. Moreau's 7 have been replaced by Thoresen, Winchester, and so on in bit roles.

As much as we want the prospects to play well, our main problem isn't at forward. Our D is weak with Staios, Smith, and Bergeron. We need a center to replace Peca. Reasoner only offset Murray.

Both Lupul and Torres are being used poorly by the coaching staff, the coaching staff being the 1a problem. Lupul is a shooter who needs a playmaker to feed him the puck, MacT has him in a passing role and not much PP time when you could use a one time from the hashmarks. Torres is being used less than last year. He scored 27 last year. He rarely sees PP time, unlike last year.

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02-07-2007, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilerdynasty View Post
Horcoff came back to earth, he was and is a 15 goal and 40 point guy, career year in the final year of his deal excluded.
Exept he's on pace to score more than that this year.

Quote:
Pisani is play no different that what Pisani always played.
I agree.

Quote:
Smith is plain brutal and needs a #1 like Pronger, Chara, Redden, or Lidstrom to make him look good.
He had a great career despite playing with none of them before last year.

Quote:
Ethan Moreau's injury took his 7 goals and shot to the goalie crest rush ending play out of the line up. After Moreau's injury both his linemates at the time have scored the majority of their goals after his departure, Stoll and Pisani. Not a coincidence. Moreau's 7 have been replaced by Thoresen, Winchester, and so on in bit roles.
It's more than his goals. It's also his ability to maintain puck possession down low. It's his speed that allows him to close the gap on the defencemen (both on the forecheck and in our zone).

As for his linemates scoring the majority of their goals after he left the lineup... well I'd hope so, Moreau only played 7 games.

Quote:
As much as we want the prospects to play well, our main problem isn't at forward. Our D is weak with Staios, Smith, and Bergeron. We need a center to replace Peca. Reasoner only offset Murray.
Our forwards have been just as bad as our defenceman. Our forwards can't keep the puck out of our zone, and our D can't get it out of our zone.

Quote:
Both Lupul and Torres are being used poorly by the coaching staff, the coaching staff being the 1a problem. Lupul is a shooter who needs a playmaker to feed him the puck, MacT has him in a passing role and not much PP time when you could use a one time from the hashmarks. Torres is being used less than last year. He scored 27 last year. He rarely sees PP time, unlike last year.
Torres doesn't see PP time because he's terrible on the PP.

Lupul played a lot with both Hemsky and Smyth, and did piss all. If he needs every goal to be gift-wrapped for him, then there's no sense wasting time playing him with talented forewards.

Lupul's problem is he can't get his shot off. Has he ever gotten a shot on goal with a player between him and the net?

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Old
02-07-2007, 08:18 PM
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I believe since around that time we have all agreed what oilers were lacking and we were proven right

It has been no secret for awhile that the oilers were lacking d both on the line and up front

we knew the moment we saw the roster on August 1st what the problem was going to be--the plan was to win games 8-7--things just did not work out the way we had hoped

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Old
02-08-2007, 01:26 AM
  #11
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The "d" was always a concern, at least a minimal concern for all fans. The biggest disappointment IMO is in our forward prospects not showing the ability to grab an NHL job by the throat. Then there's Lowe for the 3rd straight season not addressing our needs until it's border-line too late. Salo and a scoring center in the pre-lock-out season, Golatending and additionalt forward and defensive help last year, and this year defense and a play-making forward to set up Lupul and Sykora. Lowe hopefully learns a lesson this year about waiting too long for the 2nd of the last 3 seasons.

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