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Reality (in Puckhead58's opinion)

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Old
02-07-2007, 10:12 AM
  #1
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Reality (in Puckhead58's opinion)

The Montreal Canadiens are NOT the team everybody thinks they are!!! Sorry, but it had to be said!!!!
Don't get me wrong, I am a Habs fan and I think we have a decent team when everybody plays together and plays to their potential, but, the only real proven stars we have on the team are Koivu and Kovalev. Koivu is small and plays with a lot of heart but he can only do so much when all he has on his wings are Ryder and Higgins. Kovalev is still a good hockey player, but is only a fraction of the player he used to be in his Penguin and Ranger days. Souray, Markov and Rivet are our best defencemen, but yet.....what have they done in their careers??? Souray just became good in the last few years and he is still at times a defensive liability. Markov is coming into his own, plays solid D and can put up the points as well. Rivet is getting old and tired and it is showing on the ice this year. He make mistakes all the time and is usually on when the other team scores. We have a lot of young players that have potential, but are not proven yet....such as Ryder, Higgins, Plekanec, Latendresse, Lapierre, Bouillion, Komisarek, Streit. They are doing the best they can considering that they are either rookies or they have only had a year of solid NHL experience. And then we have Bonk, Johnson, Downey, Murray, Dandenault and Niinimaa. They are players that have roles to play on the team and so far I don't see where any of them have really faltered. Bonk and Johnson have been more than awesome in their defensive roles, Downey and Murray are great for going out and playing a little ruff, mixing things up and keeping the other team on their toes, and Niinimaa and Dandy are doing their best as the 6th and 7th defencemen considering there are a lot of nights that they don't get much support from their forwards. Huet and Aebischer have both had their ups and downs. Huet had a terrible start to the season but showed his last season form for a good stretch but is now playing fair. Aebischer had a great start but then had a string of bad games giving way to Huet, but Abby is now the one that is leading the team in net.

All I am trying to say here is that when you look at the players we have, we are doing better then we probably should be. We don't have one true goal scorer on the team where a lot of teams have 2 or 3, we are overall a small team for the most part, our forwards are small and are unable to handle the physical play in front of the net and in the corners and that is where you need to be big and tuff and still able to make plays. We are a young team with not much experience and leadership. Our defence is average at best with Souray leading the way, but he isn't even that good defensively. We give up WAYYY too many shots each game. Our goaltending is good, but we need to have both Huet and Abby playing to the top of their games to keep our team in it every night with all the shots they get.

If the Montreal Canadiens are so good, how come we give up between 30 and 40 shots EVERYGAME?? How come we only average about 20-30 shots on the other teams net?? How come our top goal scorer is a defencmen?? How come our best players Koivu and Kovalev don't have 20 goals yet?? The Habs are good when EVERY player is playing at their best and all working together to win and when that doesn't happen....he have trouble scoring goals, preventing goals and getting wins.

I know I may hear a lot of feedback from this post, but thats why I wrote it....to see if anybody agrees with me, or if they just look past the facts and see a team full of superstars.


Last edited by Darz: 02-07-2007 at 10:33 AM. Reason: removed unnessesary comments
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02-07-2007, 10:18 AM
  #2
Dark4ng3l
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Well maybe we should trade all our veterans for a few picks, send all our young guys down and field a team of our worst farm players and hope that somehow we manage to outsuck the flyer to get a top pick. The thing is the team is stuck in the middle of the pack forever unless we can get a few good picks in the draft or we get lucky and draft a suprise superstar outside the top10.

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02-07-2007, 10:26 AM
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How about trading Latendresse and LaPierre for Bertuzzi. Then bring Sammy and Perez back into the fold? I'd do it.

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02-07-2007, 10:26 AM
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For me, although they may not be as good as their record early on showed, they are still not too far off from being considered a cup contender.

The one glaring need that this team has, and has had for a long time, is the need for a true superstar - a 100 point forward or a Pronger/Lidstrom type defenceman.

Take a look at the teams that win it all - even at the teams that don't have to scratch and claw their way into the playoffs. Those teams all have that guy - a Staal, Lecavailer, Sakic, Yzerman, Lidstrom, Forsberg, Modano, etc...

Until we get a player like that, we will always be a fringe team who has the potential to make a run if all the stars align. The fans are begging for it and have been begging for it ever since Guy Lafleur. In fact, Montreal fans may want this more than they want another cup.

Montreal needs a superstar.

As always, Go Habs Go

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02-07-2007, 10:31 AM
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Dark4ng3l
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We cant get a superstar by buying one(else we would have had one at some point in the last 10 years) and we cant suck enough to get a top 5 pick. Unless one of our draft prospects ends up way surpassing expectations our next big potential star is Price.

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02-07-2007, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark4ng3l View Post
We cant get a superstar by buying one(else we would have had one at some point in the last 10 years) and we cant suck enough to get a top 5 pick. Unless one of our draft prospects ends up way surpassing expectations our next big potential star is Price.
Regardless, Montreal needs a superstar. Heck, how many teams can you name that have multiple superstars on their team let alone one - off the top of your head? Tampa, Detroit, Buffalo, Anaheim, San Jose, Pittsburgh, NY Rangers, Atlanta, Ottawa, Carolina, etc...

Gainey & Co. have to find a way to get a superstar to Montreal.

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02-07-2007, 11:06 AM
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I pulled this from a post on Habsworld.net http://forums.habsworld.net/index.php?showtopic=10498.

This is the same story year after year with the Habs and it really illustrates our one true glaring weakness. A legitmate, consistent superstar capable of putting up a lot of points. Hard to score a lot when you don't have some of the guys on this list.

Again, Montreal needs a superstar.

We are the only team in the East without at least ONE player on pace for 70pts this season!


In the east that is..

Atlanta- 3
Hossa- 98
Kovy- 83
Kozlov- 80

Boston- 2
Savard: 107
Bergeron- 77

Buffalo- 4
Briere- 100
Afinogenov- 92
Drury: 80
Vanek: 78

Carolina: 5
Brindamour: 91
Whitney: 88
Williams: 73
Cole: 73
Staal: 70

Florida: 1
Jokinen: 82

NJ: 2
Elias: 77
Gomez: 75

NYI: 2
Blake: 73
Yashin: 74

NYR: 4
Jagr: 97
Straka: 88
Nylander: 93
Shanahan: 77

Ottawa: 3
Heatley: 102
Alfy: 85
Spezza: 98

Philly: 1
Forsberg: 77

Pittsburgh: 3
Crosby: 141
Malkin: 99
Recchi: 79

TB: 2
St Louis: 107
Lecavalier: 104

Toronto: 1
Sundin: 84

Washington: 3
Ovechkin: 104
Semin: 85
Zubrus: 74

Montreal's leading scorer is Sheldon Souray. He has 44 points in 55 games which means he's on pace for 66.

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02-07-2007, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by big_habs_fan View Post
For me, although they may not be as good as their record early on showed, they are still not too far off from being considered a cup contender.

The one glaring need that this team has, and has had for a long time, is the need for a true superstar - a 100 point forward or a Pronger/Lidstrom type defenceman.

Take a look at the teams that win it all - even at the teams that don't have to scratch and claw their way into the playoffs. Those teams all have that guy - a Staal, Lecavailer, Sakic, Yzerman, Lidstrom, Forsberg, Modano, etc...

Until we get a player like that, we will always be a fringe team who has the potential to make a run if all the stars align. The fans are begging for it and have been begging for it ever since Guy Lafleur. In fact, Montreal fans may want this more than they want another cup.

Montreal needs a superstar.

As always, Go Habs Go
EXACTLY!!!
Thats the way I look at the Habs, one, two or three superstars away from being a cup contender. With the team we have now, we are a "middle of the pack" team. Sorry to say it, but its true. If we had players like Pronger on the point, Forsberg at center on the first line and Gagne on the wing, then I would consider the Habs better than average.

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02-07-2007, 11:12 AM
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How about trading Latendresse and LaPierre for Bertuzzi. Then bring Sammy and Perez back into the fold? I'd do it.
uhhh. NO!

Im not trading perhaps our 2 best young players for a UFA to be.

Bertuzzi will not want to play here, he wants out of the spotlight, not into the Montreal media.

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02-07-2007, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Puckhead58 View Post
EXACTLY!!!
Thats the way I look at the Habs, one, two or three superstars away from being a cup contender. With the team we have now, we are a "middle of the pack" team. Sorry to say it, but its true. If we had players like Pronger on the point, Forsberg at center on the first line and Gagne on the wing, then I would consider the Habs better than average.
I got some reality for ya. Any team with three superstars like that is better than average.

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02-07-2007, 11:13 AM
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But how do you get a top player? And I dont mean a rental either. lets say we want Kovalchuk or Hossa and dont want to give more than 1 roster player for him. Is it really wise to trade, say Higgins, 4 good prospects and a few picks for one guy?

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02-07-2007, 11:19 AM
  #12
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Now, part 2 of my thread!!
With everything I said above, why does everybody think that Montreal should be doing better than a 29-20-6 record??? We had a GREAT start, mainly because we had a great powerplay and a great penalty kill and thats it!!!
If you look at the first 45 games, how many even strength goals do we have...likely not too many.
Now that the rest of the league knows how to stop our powerplay and effectively get passed out penalty kill, we aren't winning like we did at the first of the season. So if we had a couple of superstars that can put the puck in the net at will like Heatley, Hossa, Gagne, St Louis etc. instead of overpaying the mediocre talent we have now, we would then be the team everybody thinks that Habs are now.
I know I don't sound like much of a fan by making these comment, but I am a true Habs fan, I just don't like getting my hopes up for now reason and I don't like setting expectations that cannot be reached!

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02-07-2007, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by big_habs_fan View Post
For me, although they may not be as good as their record early on showed, they are still not too far off from being considered a cup contender.

The one glaring need that this team has, and has had for a long time, is the need for a true superstar - a 100 point forward or a Pronger/Lidstrom type defenceman.

Take a look at the teams that win it all - even at the teams that don't have to scratch and claw their way into the playoffs. Those teams all have that guy - a Staal, Lecavailer, Sakic, Yzerman, Lidstrom, Forsberg, Modano, etc...

Until we get a player like that, we will always be a fringe team who has the potential to make a run if all the stars align. The fans are begging for it and have been begging for it ever since Guy Lafleur. In fact, Montreal fans may want this more than they want another cup.

Montreal needs a superstar.

As always, Go Habs Go
OK but all those guys have been drafted and home grown (except for Forsberg and that's because he's no longer the superstar he was once). We request a superstar like they grow on trees and all the teams are willing to trade their own superstar to a team that has none to return to them.

You want to talk about reality - here it is. There is no superstar on our team or in our system. Good player but not superstar. We had the opportunity to draft a potential offensive superstar in 2005 but we passed on Kopitar to take Price. The Habs will continue to be a defense first team who need to excel on special teams for years to come. Look at management - Gainey, Carbo, Muller, Jarvis - these are defense first minded individuals.

Finally, if you want and answer to why the Habs are slipping look no further than special teams. Our power play has not been as proficient and our PK has just stunk the last couple of weeks. Same team, except that teams are adjusting to our PP and PK.

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02-07-2007, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Dark4ng3l View Post
But how do you get a top player? And I dont mean a rental either. lets say we want Kovalchuk or Hossa and dont want to give more than 1 roster player for him. Is it really wise to trade, say Higgins, 4 good prospects and a few picks for one guy?
Well I wouldn't give up that much for Kovalchuk for starters. Yes he is a sniper and a superstar, but he wouldnt be worth getting rid of half the team. For example, I would say give up a couple roster players (Ryder & Sammy), a prospect (Kostitsyn or Lapierre or Halak or O'Bryne) and a pick.
Of course it definitely wouldn't be an easy task and it would take a team that needs what we would be offering, but it would be possible to land a superstar if we gave up the right players.

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02-07-2007, 11:27 AM
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uhhh. NO!

Im not trading perhaps our 2 best young players for a UFA to be.

Bertuzzi will not want to play here, he wants out of the spotlight, not into the Montreal media.
If Lats and Lap are anywhere near being our 2 best players then the Habs are in major trouble. I would call them mediocre at best.

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02-07-2007, 11:31 AM
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If Lats and Lap are anywhere near being our 2 best players then the Habs are in major trouble. I would call them mediocre at best.
Whatever

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02-07-2007, 12:06 PM
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I got some reality for ya. Any team with three superstars like that is better than average.
Alright, so Puckhead says......
Quote:
If we had players like Pronger on the point, Forsberg at center on the first line and Gagne on the wing, then I would consider the Habs better than average.

So what you are saying if Philly had Pronger on their team they would be better than average??????

WOW!!!! I'm surprised that Pronger hasn't won more Stanley Cups, since he could turn a crappy team like Philly into a cup contender.

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02-07-2007, 12:10 PM
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Alright, so Puckhead says......



So what you are saying if Philly had Pronger on their team they would be better than average??????

WOW!!!! I'm surprised that Pronger hasn't won more Stanley Cups, since he could turn a crappy team like Philly into a cup contender.
Yes, they would be a much better team.

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02-07-2007, 12:15 PM
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With all due respect, winning a cup is a crapshoot, someone wins and someone loses. Essentially, there are no guarantees.

That being said Pronger DID turn a borderline playoff team (Edmonton) into an instant cup contender just last year. And if he were on our blue line tomorrow, we would be instant contenders. The same can be said if we added a Forsberg type player. One superstar can make a world of difference.

Then again, at the end of the day, it can make no difference at all either.

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02-07-2007, 12:20 PM
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I've seen about a dozen Habs Stanley Cup winning teams in my day, the current playing roster has a snowballs chance in hades of winning a cup this year. In my opinion given the way Carbo is handling this team, he is building for next year and has no interest at all in making a cup run this year.

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02-07-2007, 12:24 PM
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Well I wouldn't give up that much for Kovalchuk for starters. Yes he is a sniper and a superstar, but he wouldnt be worth getting rid of half the team. For example, I would say give up a couple roster players (Ryder & Sammy), a prospect (Kostitsyn or Lapierre or Halak or O'Bryne) and a pick.
Of course it definitely wouldn't be an easy task and it would take a team that needs what we would be offering, but it would be possible to land a superstar if we gave up the right players.

I think you're way off if you think it would be that easy to get Kovalchuk. Go post that on the Atlanta board and see how they feel about it.

Even if they could make such a trade, IMO montreal's biggest problem right now is that their big salary commitments are tied up in all the wrong places!

Kovalev: 4.5 Million
Samsonov: 3.5 Million
Rivet: 2.5 Million
Niinima: 2.5 Million.

That's THIRTEEN MILLION.

Is there anyone here who thinks that this team wouldn't be better off if we ditched these 4 players and payed Lecavalier or someone similar 13 million a season? We talk about overpaying for stars like Arnott, Chara, Havlat, etc, but the habs are guilty of this too.

The above 4 contracts are all failures. (Rivet is arguable but I think what he brings to the table is replaceable without much difficulty) We're not going to get a superstar unless we toss some salary overboard and overpay a UFA. And in the salary cap era, tossing salary is not an easy thing.

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02-07-2007, 12:45 PM
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Yes, they would be a much better team.
They would be better, but in no way would they be better than average.

Because, by saying adding Pronger to the worst team makes them better than average, that means putting Pronger on basically any other team makes them a major Cup contender, and since Pronger has only gone to the finals once (never winning a Cup), I can't think that is true.

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02-07-2007, 12:52 PM
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I think you're way off if you think it would be that easy to get Kovalchuk. Go post that on the Atlanta board and see how they feel about it.

Even if they could make such a trade, IMO montreal's biggest problem right now is that their big salary commitments are tied up in all the wrong places!

Kovalev: 4.5 Million
Samsonov: 3.5 Million
Rivet: 2.5 Million
Niinima: 2.5 Million.

That's THIRTEEN MILLION.

Is there anyone here who thinks that this team wouldn't be better off if we ditched these 4 players and payed Lecavalier or someone similar 13 million a season? We talk about overpaying for stars like Arnott, Chara, Havlat, etc, but the habs are guilty of this too.

The above 4 contracts are all failures. (Rivet is arguable but I think what he brings to the table is replaceable without much difficulty) We're not going to get a superstar unless we toss some salary overboard and overpay a UFA. And in the salary cap era, tossing salary is not an easy thing.
nice post and bang on , we are paying may too much for middle of the pack players, Like I said before , why spend thta kind of money on a plyer taking us nowhere . THIS SUMMER , ABBY,BONK,RIVET,NINIMAA, JOHNSON ( unless he comes back reasonabl ) MURRAY, DOWNEY, FLSUH THEM OUT OF THE SYTEM , Rivet at 2.5 million is a joke for a 5th/6th dman , I don`t care what the market dictates , they dont belong anymore. Souaray and Markov make fair deals , if they want 6 million , keep one and let the other go.

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02-07-2007, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Darz View Post
They would be better, but in no way would they be better than average.

Because, by saying adding Pronger to the worst team makes them better than average, that means putting Pronger on basically any other team makes them a major Cup contender, and since Pronger has only gone to the finals once (never winning a Cup), I can't think that is true.
What exactly is a voice of reason and the use of logic doing in this thread?

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02-07-2007, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Darz View Post
They would be better, but in no way would they be better than average.

Because, by saying adding Pronger to the worst team makes them better than average, that means putting Pronger on basically any other team makes them a major Cup contender, and since Pronger has only gone to the finals once (never winning a Cup), I can't think that is true.
Where did I ever say "major Cup contender"? I said it would make any team better than average not the best team in the league. And are you trying to tell me that a full healthy Flyers lineup + Pronger would not be a better than average team? I can't say I agree with that.

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