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We Should Trade Ribs!

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Old
12-06-2003, 05:47 PM
  #1
Mooch
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We Should Trade Ribs!

Hey guys,

First of all id just like to mention that im not saying trade ribs based on his preformance tonight. Im basing it on the whole season. I watched the game tonight and looking at the way Ryderin his first season(plus a very late pick) played, i kinda wonder why ribs is still on this team. Ya ya ya, he has vision, SO WHAT. If hes got value trade him with a pick for a decent 2nd line center or a goal scoring winger, because this guy aint gona get much better in my opinion and i dont see him being a part of our future. Hes just to damn slow. Koivu is small, but he has better vision, speed and overall strength (im not saying hes a part of our future either).

Personally i would love to see hossa as our second centre, atleast give him a shot at it. His probably got the same skills as ribs plus more (im assuming based on scouting). Hes stronger, faster, and has vision thats probably good enough im sure for a second liner. Even his brother said that he can pass the puck well, and mentioned that he should play at the C position(natural position).

Anyways thats my two cents!

By the way that Ryder is gona be one hell of a player on day (15 points now, second in league among rooks)


WOW!

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12-06-2003, 05:52 PM
  #2
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I agree but I disagree. Ribs is playing with Dagenais. I really don't give a **** what they did in juniors. When a guy is as big as degenais, no matter how he plays, people will fear his size in juniors, in the nhl he is just a big ***** to smack around. Ribs is playing with him and Perrault. I like Perrault, maybe the only one on these forums really, but the fact that he scores and he wins faceoff is good anough for me(well 28 goals a year is decent, what can you expect really?). Back to Ribs. He plays with one huge **** player and one small decent player. Since he is small he needs someone to help him out cause he can deke, but they can hit him. Give him some decent linemates maybe that would help.

Hossa I love this kid, no idea what he will do, but maybe one day turn out like his bro(dream, not based on anything). If he is a natural center, and Marian said he is an awesome center, then well play him at center, but I trust Gainey to do what has to be done.

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12-06-2003, 05:55 PM
  #3
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He's only 23 yrs old. He has great vision that is better than Koivu. Hossa isn't developing as much as we would like. What if he doesn't pan out, then we are screwed at centre. Ribeiro is on pace for about 55-60 pts. He could get better and his value right now isn't as high as it would be in 2-3 yrs if he stays consistent.

Btw,Ryder(15) is 3rd in Rookie Scoring behind Bergeron(16) and King(16)

Ribeiro needs quicker wingers. Perreault is playing well but what if we replace him with Bulis? And Dagenais has a great shot but should use his physic more. Early in the season, Ribeiro was leading the team.

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12-06-2003, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komisarek8
He's only 23 yrs old. He has great vision that is better than Koivu. Hossa isn't developing as much as we would like. What if he doesn't pan out, then we are screwed at centre. Ribeiro is on pace for about 55-60 pts. He could get better and his value right now isn't as high as it would be in 2-3 yrs if he stays consistent.

Btw,Ryder(15) is 3rd in Rookie Scoring behind Bergeron(16) and King(16)

Ribeiro needs quicker wingers. Perreault is playing well but what if we replace him with Bulis? And Dagenais has a great shot but should use his physic more. Early in the season, Ribeiro was leading the team.

Hes on pace for 55 points, SO WHAT. He cant play D, hes not much of a goal scorer, and he is to WEAK not just small to handle most other second line centres. koivu may also be small BUT he is strong on his skates and can to some extent slow down other skaters. Ribs cant do that, and i dont think he is gona get much stronger, have you seen how skinny this guy is.

On a side note, for those who dont like hossa then why not Chriss higgins ans a second line centre, hes much stronger than ribs not to mention faster and better defensively. So why keep ribs if hes not a part of our future and trade him now while hes got some value(if hes got any value that is around the league).

Anyways thats what im trying to say.

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12-06-2003, 06:12 PM
  #5
Kirk Muller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komisarek8
He's only 23 yrs old. He has great vision that is better than Koivu. Hossa isn't developing as much as we would like. What if he doesn't pan out, then we are screwed at centre. Ribeiro is on pace for about 55-60 pts. He could get better and his value right now isn't as high as it would be in 2-3 yrs if he stays consistent.

Btw,Ryder(15) is 3rd in Rookie Scoring behind Bergeron(16) and King(16)

Ribeiro needs quicker wingers. Perreault is playing well but what if we replace him with Bulis? And Dagenais has a great shot but should use his physic more. Early in the season, Ribeiro was leading the team.
I won't go as far as we should trade Ribeiro like the original poster, but saying he has better vision than Koivu is another classic overrating of Ribeiro which I think, myself, and many are sick of, and why they're is such a divide between Ribeiro fans and other hab fans.

Koivu is by far, head and shoulders above any offensive player on this team. Koivu gets the nod because he has proven it in the past, Ribeiro still has proven NOTHING to say he is best at anything on this team. Until he puts up 50 assists, I won't say he has superior vision to Koivu.

Ribeiro is an okay player, the best second line centre that the habs have. He might have better vision than Koivu or more creative, BUT and its a big BUT, if he doesn't produce better than Koivu, can you make that claim, or maybe its just not as good as some think. Hopefully people understand what I trying to say.

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12-06-2003, 06:29 PM
  #6
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Damn, Ribeiro is playing well in general this season, he is having a carrer year and finally seems to have some confidence. He pass the puck well, he is our best scorer...And we should trade him to see him developng in a good 2nd line center away from Montreal...??? Riberio can't do all the things on the ice but he what he is able to do, he does it very well. Give him a break and comparing him to Ryder is kindda unfair since Ryder is a pure sniper who's playing with Koivu and Zednik( two enough fast skaters) on the first line when Ribeiro is playing on the second line with Dagenais and Perreault. I know he has play the 11 first games on the first line and he did well...Don'T ask Ribeiro more than he can actually does that's how we kill players in Montreal. Just accept the fact that he is slow and get over it...

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12-06-2003, 06:31 PM
  #7
Guy Caballero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash13
Ribeiro is an okay player, the best second line centre that the habs have. He might have better vision than Koivu or more creative, BUT and its a big BUT, if he doesn't produce better than Koivu, can you make that claim, or maybe its just not as good as some think. Hopefully people understand what I trying to say.
I disagree that he is the best second-line center we have. Yannic is. He's 25 goals in the bank and the best faceoff man in the league. I don't know <i>what</i> Ribeiro is.

To suggest that Ribeiro has better vision or creativity than Koivu is absurd. (And I'm not suggesting you are; but some do.) Koivu is the superior talent in every way, and comparing them is an insult to Saku, IMO.

Ribsy better enjoy wearing that jersey while he can, because he's not a Gainey player and he'll be gone the moment Higgins steps up to take his place on the second line.

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12-06-2003, 06:33 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash13
I won't go as far as we should trade Ribeiro like the original poster, but saying he has better vision than Koivu is another classic overrating of Ribeiro which I think, myself, and many are sick of, and why they're is such a divide between Ribeiro fans and other hab fans.

Koivu is by far, head and shoulders above any offensive player on this team. Koivu gets the nod because he has proven it in the past, Ribeiro still has proven NOTHING to say he is best at anything on this team. Until he puts up 50 assists, I won't say he has superior vision to Koivu.

Ribeiro is an okay player, the best second line centre that the habs have. He might have better vision than Koivu or more creative, BUT and its a big BUT, if he doesn't produce better than Koivu, can you make that claim, or maybe its just not as good as some think. Hopefully people understand what I trying to say.
i also think that by now , is the better second line center that we have .Unlike you i, think that he have a better vision than Koivu , but Koivu is by far a better overall skill player .Ribiero doesn't have to play like a first center , Koivu have to .

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12-06-2003, 06:36 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash13
..
I fully agree. A casual hockey fan may flip on the game and watch Ribeiro shift around the offensive zone, flipping the puck around and creatively shifting his skates, and think "wow, what a talented player that Ribeiro is". It's hard not to fall in love with a guy that is as talented with the puck as Mike, but there are other things that can make or break a hockey player. I give Ribeiro full credit for trying each and every offseason to improve his strength and skating, it shows that he's really trying to improve and that no one should be questioning the work ethic he has. If you read most of my posts, you'll see that I'm constantly talking about how size really doesn't matter, but what sets the real players apart from the rest is their strength, on-ice desire, and commitment to their respective teams. I've never met Mike Ribeiro, but I get the feeling that he cares more for his own stats and ice time, than he does for winning and playing a thorough team game.

Ribeiro's talent level is, some would say, off of the charts. I agree to a certain extent, but being able to stickhandle is just one area of many that make up 'talent'. Mike will never be a good skater and he is certainly not a physical player. Because Ribeiro is so weak on and off of the puck, it will be very hard for him to continue as an effective top-six forward without possessing good speed or decent strength. He may put up 50 points on a weak team, but this is not a guy that is going to be a key part of any Stanley Cup run, whether the fans or media decide to accept that is up to them. With Bob Gainey as GM, I have a hard time believing that such a proud, heartfilled competitor as M. Gainey could feel confident with Mike Ribeiro as a centreman on his contending team.

Ribeiro would be a great player to drool over in the preseason, or even an allstar game, but when the going gets tough he disappears faster than Travis Green at the site of Mike Komisarek. Comparing Ribeiro to a guy like Saku Koivu is moronic. Even though they are both setupmen that are very small in stature, Koivu plays a fireball type of game with an unquestionable drive and passion. When the games become important and the team is in trouble, Koivu is the man that you notice. Unless Mike Ribeiro can become that type of player, there is no future in Montreal for him. Our captain was the best player on the ice tonight, and has shown yet again that he is a top-ten centre in the NHL.

All the best to Ribeiro. He may some day be a some what productive player on a less than productive team, but he'll never be of any real importance to Montreal unless he can touch upon those things I've all ready mentioned: skating, strength, and desire. Those are the three things that can make or break a hockey player, but I get the feeling they've already ripped a big crack through Mike Ribeiro, and he's in serious danger of being broken.

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12-06-2003, 06:39 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Caballero
I disagree that he is the best second-line center we have. Yannic is. He's 25 goals in the bank and the best faceoff man in the league. I don't know what Ribeiro is.

To suggest that Ribeiro has better vision or creativity than Koivu is absurd. (And I'm not suggesting you are; but some do.) Koivu is the superior talent in every way, and comparing them is an insult to Saku, IMO.

Ribsy better enjoy wearing that jersey while he can, because he's not a Gainey player and he'll be gone the moment Higgins steps up to take his place on the second line.
yannic is a free agent at the end of the year .I think that most of us don't really hope the team resign him .Also , Perreault is not a real center player ( exept for his ability for the faceoff ) ; he 's absolutly not a playmaker and that'sthe role of the center , he's a sniper.

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12-06-2003, 06:49 PM
  #11
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<b>jl.roberts</b>, You've articulated my feelings about Ribeiro to a tee.

Do you think this guy would last ten games as the second-line C on Jersey, Philly, or Boston? No way. And he shouldn't be on the Habs, either.

Ship him to Chicago or another team that needs something flashy to put butts in the seats. If we could get a Mark Bell to play with Yannic, I'd be happier.

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12-06-2003, 06:52 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Caballero
<b>jl.roberts</b>, You've articulated my feelings about Ribeiro to a tee.

Do you think this guy would last ten games as the second-line C on Jersey, Philly, or Boston? No way. And he shouldn't be on the Habs, either.

Ship him to Chicago or another team that needs something flashy to put butts in the seats. If we could get a Mark Bell to play with Yannic, I'd be happier.
Mark Bell would be beautiful here. I'd be willing to trade my 1st round pick and more for this guy. He scored a nice goal tonight, and he's very talented. The fact that he's big isn't so important, but he USES that size effectively. Can you imagine a Bell - Higgins - Ryder line? That would be incredible two or three years from now.

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12-06-2003, 06:59 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jl.roberts
Mark Bell would be beautiful here. I'd be willing to trade my 1st round pick and more for this guy. He scored a nice goal tonight, and he's very talented. The fact that he's big isn't so important, but he USES that size effectively. Can you imagine a Bell - Higgins - Ryder line? That would be incredible two or three years from now.
I could imagine it, but I won't. It would just make me sad, because our second line is Perreault-Ribeiro-Dagenais.

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12-06-2003, 07:27 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komisarek8
He's only 23 yrs old. He has great vision that is better than Koivu. Hossa isn't developing as much as we would like. What if he doesn't pan out, then we are screwed at centre. Ribeiro is on pace for about 55-60 pts. He could get better and his value right now isn't as high as it would be in 2-3 yrs if he stays consistent.

Btw,Ryder(15) is 3rd in Rookie Scoring behind Bergeron(16) and King(16)

Ribeiro needs quicker wingers. Perreault is playing well but what if we replace him with Bulis? And Dagenais has a great shot but should use his physic more. Early in the season, Ribeiro was leading the team.
Your arithmetic is off ... more like 50 points, including 12-13 goals. As for leading the team in scoring, that was then and this is now. Others are catching up. I hope for the sake of the Habs that Ribeiro at least maintains his pace but that may be too optimistic.

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12-06-2003, 07:56 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey
Others are catching up. I hope for the sake of the Habs that Ribeiro at least maintains his pace but that may be too optimistic.
How true. My gosh, Michael Ryder has one point less than Ribeiro, yet we all know he is at best, a third line grinder with bad stick handling, not a very good passer, and only has a good shot.

Ribeiro has talent, I don't doubt that, but there are many aspects of his talent that could be better if he used it more effectively. First off, people say he has great vision and is a playmaker, but anyone else notice that his passes are too weak which makes them easily picked off, or behind the actual pace of the game. Also, there is always a time and place to try a play. He often tries a fancy pass when there is no passing lane. Also, many times I wonder if his brain can keep up with the pace of the game, and plus make the smart play. He can exploit a team if given time, but disappears and doesn't fight through it when teams key in on him.

Will he learn, I honestly can't say. He really should be watching Koivu closely and try to be like him.

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12-06-2003, 08:51 PM
  #16
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hold the trades unless it is an outstanding deal
wait until we get closer to the deadline and see who is going for it all this year and wants some of our guys to help. more value that way

or

see who has given up and wants to dump salary or rebuild

I think BG is doing great being patient

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12-06-2003, 11:10 PM
  #17
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I wouldn't trade Ribs, just yet. He's a work in progress. I agree that he can't be compared to Saku in terms of: consistent passion, fierce competitiveness, and an array of other tangible/intangible qualities. But, how many players on our team do, really?

I think Ribs possesses a gifted sense of creativity, much more so than an average player, and something you don't see very often. I believe that's the same attribute that Gretzky says has diminished in Canadian hockey. Ribs clearly has some major cons against him, as already pointed out, but giving up on him too early will certainly benefit a team, other than ours.

He's made progress, and I think, he is genuinely trying to improve. If there's one player that he shouldn't give up on too soon, it's Ribs. IMHO.

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12-07-2003, 02:06 AM
  #18
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To those who debate wheter Perrault or Ribeiro is our best 2nd line center, I say that Saku is. This team will be competitive the day both Perrault and Ribs are out and a real first line C is in. Given the actual context of the NHL, Gainey should try to find such a player with leadership qualities (not another wimp) even on the little overpaid / little old side and trade a yound cheap and promising commodity player like Ribs to a team in dire need like Pittsburgh.

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12-07-2003, 04:47 AM
  #19
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I guess I'll add my $.02 here too...

Although I don't see Ribiero as our #2 center of the future, I don't think trading him right now is a good idea. First of all, if we trade him, we're gonna be looking for a good RD... not a power forward or any forward for that matter. Look at our future...

Zednik - Koivu - Kastsitsyn
Hossa - Higgins - Perezhogin
Bulis - Plekanec - Ryder
Sundstrom - Begin - Ward

Add to it that Urquhart, Lambert, Balej, etc. are doing very well... we're stacked at forward.

Hainsey - Komisarek
Markov - ???????
Souray - ???????

Quintal is gone at the end of this year to UFA. Brisebois, even if he will take the pay cut, will likely not be very productive or needed on the PP by the time he becomes a UFA in two years. And Rivet has been very inconsistant thoughout his career with Montreal.

So the Ribiero trade, when the time comes, should be...

Ribiero + Rivet ---> solid younger RD

If this trade is done now, that would most likely put Komisarek back in the minors, and more importantly, if Higgins or Plekanec can't score at this level, we'll be stuck without a productive #2 center at the start of next season.

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12-07-2003, 05:20 AM
  #20
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I just don't see Ribs on our roster the day we win the cup again, period.

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12-07-2003, 06:37 AM
  #21
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Ribeiro has surprised me a bit. He has improved without the puck and isn't shy playing in traffic. Can he be a good player on a good team ? I suspect that it depends on his situation. A bit of size on his line [not Dagenais] might help. Maybe some speed, like Balej, who knows.
I've noticed that if he keeps his feet moving in the offensive zone, he can control the puck and make plays, but if he is stationary near the boards, he folds up like a cheap card table. His upside is probably comparable to York or Marc Savard, but it still remains to be seen. I don't see the point in exploring a trade in that other teams see what we see. There are no secrets in the NHL. By the end of this year BG will no exactly what he has, or doesn't have.

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12-07-2003, 06:46 AM
  #22
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Ribs need speed so I would like to see a 2nd line composed of:

Bulis-Ribeiro-Balej

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12-07-2003, 07:23 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon
I just don't see Ribs on our roster the day we win the cup again, period.
I have to agree. In fact, with all the hoopla surrounding Ribs, I have been trying, almost since the season started, to paint Ribs into a picture of a cup winning Habs team (in my mind at least). I have an exceptional imagination (according to some) but I simply can't stretch it to fit Ribs into a cup winning Hab team. As for being part of another cup winning team, I haven't tried and don't intend to.

Now, for the real problem I have with Ribs. Constant reference is made to his outstanding creativity and puck handling abilities, and from what I've seen, these skills are well above average. I think the style of play in the Western Conference is much better suited to Ribs than the ruggeder Eastern Conference style of play.

My biggest problem with Ribs? Well, creativity and puckhandling aside, he is by most ppl's assessment, a below average skater (both in strength and speed) and lacks both size and strength. These observations are hardly new to posters on here. My point, however, is that if you lack size, strength and speed, and are gonna not just survive but prosper in today's NHL, there are two things you'd better have and that's INTUITION and ANTICIPATION at something approaching the "genius" level (ie. Gretzky). These traits are not something you acquire through hard work, or achieve through learning or experience (at least not at the level I'm talking about) IMO. You either have them or you don't.

Gretzky is probably the ultimate example of what I'm talking about. He was small, physically weak, was a decent but not phenomenal skater, but certainly was an exceptional puckhandler... and creative? Well....

One of the keys to Gretzky's success, however, was that he NEVER went to where the puck WAS, but consistently went and took up a position where the puck was GOING TO BE 3 to 5 seconds in the future, and sure enough, he'd be there waiting for it when it did arrive, and it always did, or so it seemed. This is the kind of anticipation and intuitive play I'm referring to.

Now before everyone goes ballistic over me being so unfair in "comparing" Ribs to Gretzky, well, let me say outright, that I'm NOT. I am simply using Gretzky as an example (perhaps the ultimate example) of the necessity of possessing that kind of "genius" anticipation and intuition, if you are lacking size, strength, and skating, which Ribs is.

An example of a young player who lacks size and has somewhat average skating speed but who seems to exhibit those extraordinarily high levels of intuition and antipation (from what little I've seen of him) is Zach Parise. Every time this kid steps on the ice, it seems that his team gets at least one legit scoring chance (and often more than one). It might be a great chance, average chance, or below average opportunity, but he somehow makes it happen, despite lacking daunting size or extraordinary speed. What it does indicate IMHO is that Parise possesses that rare ability to read the play on a purely intuitive plain, particularly in the offensive end, 3 to 5 secs ahead of everyone else on the ice. He knows INTUITIVELY where a defensive breakdown is most likely to occur when he's entering the zone, and perhaps even how to make it occur, AND he knows what to do to take advantage of it when it does. I see nothing of this kind of "genius" in Ribs play, which is why I just don't see him being part of a cup winning Habs team, and why I don't think he'll ever turn into the offensive force some project him to be.

Am I saying Parise will be the next Gretzky? No. What I am saying is that, for the reasons stated above, I think Parise is gonna be one helluva hockey player, despite his relative lack of size, strength, and speed. Ribs won't IMO.

My 2 cents.

Cheers.

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Old
12-07-2003, 07:30 AM
  #24
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I'm going to keep this short because so many have already pretty much said what i had in mind...i personally prefer Ribs to Perreault, so right now he's my #2 center by default. That said, i think Chris Higgins has much more potential than Ribs and could possibly be our #2 as soon as next season (if there is a next season). I would not actively shop Ribeiro, but if some team offered us something real interesting for him, i wouldn't hesitate too long to deal him and give Perreault the temporary #2 spot. Now i don't see that happening anytime soon, that's why i'd lobby to deal Perreault for a pick/prospect, and go with a second line of Zednik-Ribs and one of Dagenais/Sundstrom or whoever on RW.

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12-07-2003, 08:35 AM
  #25
Corey
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
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I would add Tomas Plekanec as well as Chris Higgins to the list of potential replacements for Ribeiro. Plekanec may not be as good a playmaker as Ribeiro but he doesn't exactly suck. He more than compensates by being a better rounded hockey player than Ribeiro, sturdier, a better skater, and better defensively. And he doesn't take overlong shifts to my knowledge! It would break the heart of M. Pedneault and M. Lpre Chaun, but the important thing is the team as a whole.

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