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Murray doesn't know how to do lines...

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Old
02-08-2007, 01:35 PM
  #26
Jerk Store
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Agreed!

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Old
02-08-2007, 01:41 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandi View Post
so many of you think you have a better solution

until he tries yours, then it fails, and then you give another
What is this? You never say anything. Why are you on here? Are you looking for a boyfriend or something?

(Gosh, I'm gonna get another warning)



Just kidding Brandi, I just love teasing you for some reason!

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Old
02-08-2007, 01:43 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pothier View Post
hockeybuzz.com. eklund reporting he spoke with murray after tonight, hes looking to shake it up a bit:

Priessing-Neil-Eaves
Spezza-Schubert-McAmmond
Schaefer-Heatley-Volchenkov
Fisher-Redden-Eaves

Vermette-Corvo
Phillips-Meszaros
Alfredsson-Comrie

Kelly
Gratts
LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Old
02-08-2007, 01:54 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indrew View Post
Lines for the start of the game (from TSN):

Heatley - Spezza - Alfredsson
Schaefer - Fisher - Neil
Vermette - Comrie - Kelly
Schubert - McAmmond - Eaves
Hamel - McGrattan

Redden - Meszaros
Volchenkov - Phillips
Corvo - Priessing

Goaltender: Emery

Hurray for Murray! Now, even if these lines struggle, please keep them together so a little bit of chemistry can be built.



Seconded. Not my first choice, but we're definitely moving in the right direction. I can envision rotating Alfie, Kelly and Eaves around in various ways if the big line stalls or even when we don't have last change, but I really hope they keep the Schaefer-Fisher-Neil line together no matter what. All three need something to get them going and playing together again might just be it. I don't care if they score as long as they hit everything that moves. When that line is at their best, they're hell to play against.

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Old
02-08-2007, 01:57 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indrew View Post
Lines for the start of the game (from TSN):

Heatley - Spezza - Alfredsson
Schaefer - Fisher - Neil
Vermette - Comrie - Kelly
Schubert - McAmmond - Eaves
Hamel - McGrattan

Redden - Meszaros
Volchenkov - Phillips
Corvo - Priessing

Goaltender: Emery

Hurray for Murray! Now, even if these lines struggle, please keep them together so a little bit of chemistry can be built.
That's progress.

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Old
02-08-2007, 01:58 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTWAP View Post
That's progress.
True, yet somehow Neil gets promoted to the 2nd line.


Last edited by Roy G Biv*: 02-08-2007 at 02:25 PM.
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Old
02-08-2007, 02:04 PM
  #32
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I don't think there will be much difference in playing time between lines 2 and 3. Besides, Neil is just in a funk. He is an effective player and just needs a change of scenery. Burying him on the fourth line isn't going to do him any good. As has been mentioned, playing him with Comrie just wasn't getting it done. He should always play with Fisher, IMO. Their forecheck is so strong when playing together that they both get more scoring chances, in spite of the fact that neither has exactly got great hands. Put Schaefer or Vermette on the left side and I think you've got a pretty solid line.

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Old
02-08-2007, 02:06 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTWAP
I agree with the thread title. Given a multitude of options, Murray chooses poorly, and then makes frequent changes.

It is very, very frustrating to watch.
Yes, that, or at the other extreme, he stubbornly leaves lines together that simply don't work. There's no happy middle ground!

However, I like the new lines. I think there could still be some tinkering (the big line and Kelly would be my question marks), but these are definitely a big step in the right direction.

ETA: I also don't think there'll be a big difference between ice times -- sometimes TSN lists lines out of order, anyway.

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Old
02-08-2007, 02:18 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeycountry View Post
ETA: I also don't think there'll be a big difference between ice times -- sometimes TSN lists lines out of order, anyway.
I think the Fisher-Schaefer-Neil line is really the third line. I have always thought this combination was one of the best third lines in the league.

Now... let's talk PP. I ranted extensively to Mr. NyQuil before last night's game that Schaefer and Fisher are not PP players. Of course they go out and get a goal.

Nevertheless, I stand by my assertion and want to see these two off. None of their skills are well-suited to the PP.

Pominville aside, I'd like to see Alfie back to the point QBing the PP. Redden is clearly not up to the task. There is no excuse for our power play being as poor as it is. I think we are missing Alfie's shot from the point. He had the ability to step around hard charging forwards whereas Redden just shoots it into their shin pads over and over.

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Old
02-08-2007, 02:22 PM
  #35
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I agree that the current lines are maximizing talent. Our grind line should be re-united to get them all going. Comrie should be playing with one of teh "big" wingers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoppy View Post
Eaves - Spezza - Alfredsson
Vermette - Comrie - Heatley
Schaefer - Fisher - Neil
McCammond - Kelly - Schubert

Easy as that.
I'm OK with this. Heatly on the right side with Comrie who shoots left. Makes sens since he moved back to the LW when playing with Spezza as Jason is a right handed shot. For those who don't mind re-uniting Spezza and Heater, I'd go with this:

Heater- Spezza - Eaves
Vermette - Comrie - Alfredsson
Schaefer - Fisher - Neil
McCammond - Kelly - Schubert

This makes the most sense to me.

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02-08-2007, 02:34 PM
  #36
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My sense is that, fairly or not, Murray thinks that a Heatley-Spezza-Eaves line is a defensive liability and that's why we don't see more of it. They tried it early on but never went back. Eaves is great around the net and in the corners and he can shoot the puck, so playing him with those guys is a no-brainer offensively. The problem is that the only one of the three that is fast enough to be the defensive conscience/high man on the line is Spezza and I doubt that Murray wants to put him in that position. I think that's how this whole Kelly on the top line business got started in the first place. Like him there or not, he allows Heatley and Spezza/Alfredsson to work their magic down low without worrying too much about their own end.

Assuming Kelly does eventually end up centring the fourth line again and Eaves gets moved to a scoring line, I think you're more likely to see one of the following combinations instead:

Heatley Spezza Alfredsson
Vermette Comrie Eaves

Heatley Comrie Alfredsson
Vermette Spezza Eaves

Eaves Spezza Alfredsson
Vermette Comrie Heatley

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Old
02-08-2007, 03:17 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs_NyQuil View Post
I think the Fisher-Schaefer-Neil line is really the third line. I have always thought this combination was one of the best third lines in the league.
Agree on both counts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs_NyQuil
Now... let's talk PP. I ranted extensively to Mr. NyQuil before last night's game that Schaefer and Fisher are not PP players. Of course they go out and get a goal.

Nevertheless, I stand by my assertion and want to see these two off. None of their skills are well-suited to the PP.
Haha, I said exactly the same thing right before they scored. Then I just credited Vermette's presence for the whole thing, and remained secure in my position. But yeah, they just aren't PP players, though it wouldn't surprise me at all to see Murray use Schaefer-Fisher-Neil as the second unit.

I'd also like to see Alfie QBing. There really isn't any excuse for the current state of the PP.

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Old
02-08-2007, 03:23 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by senility View Post
My sense is that, fairly or not, Murray thinks that a Heatley-Spezza-Eaves line is a defensive liability and that's why we don't see more of it. They tried it early on but never went back. Eaves is great around the net and in the corners and he can shoot the puck, so playing him with those guys is a no-brainer offensively. The problem is that the only one of the three that is fast enough to be the defensive conscience/high man on the line is Spezza and I doubt that Murray wants to put him in that position. I think that's how this whole Kelly on the top line business got started in the first place. Like him there or not, he allows Heatley and Spezza/Alfredsson to work their magic down low without worrying too much about their own end.

Assuming Kelly does eventually end up centring the fourth line again and Eaves gets moved to a scoring line, I think you're more likely to see one of the following combinations instead:

Heatley Spezza Alfredsson
Vermette Comrie Eaves

Heatley Comrie Alfredsson
Vermette Spezza Eaves

Eaves Spezza Alfredsson
Vermette Comrie Heatley
Ugh, I hate double posting, but yeah -- if that ever does happen, I agree that you'd probably see these lines. I'd love a look at Vermette-Spezza-Alfredsson as well, but I don't see that in the cards.

And yes, there were a lot of extenuating circumstances (most of the team sucking at the time, for example), but Eaves just didn't work with Spezza and Heatley when he was up there this season. Does that mean he should never get another shot? No, but I get the feeling that Murray isn't too eager to go back there right now.

Anyway, I still think it's going to take a minor miracle for Kelly to be taken out of the top six now.

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Old
02-08-2007, 03:35 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pothier View Post
hockeybuzz.com. eklund reporting he spoke with murray after tonight, hes looking to shake it up a bit:

Priessing-Neil-Eaves
Spezza-Schubert-McAmmond
Schaefer-Heatley-Volchenkov
Fisher-Redden-Eaves

Vermette-Corvo
Phillips-Meszaros
Alfredsson-Comrie

Kelly
Gratts


Seriously though, did you guys realize there's a thread on the trade board where Eklund is actually posting? It's kind of interesting...

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=340757

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Old
02-08-2007, 03:46 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeycountry View Post
I'd love a look at Vermette-Spezza-Alfredsson as well, but I don't see that in the cards.


I always thought that line would work too or Vermette-Spezza-Heatley, but the few times they've tried, they've been absolutely brutal. My only memory of them is Vermette going offside every second play. I used to think that Vermette and Spezza just didn't have any chemistry together, but they looked good when they played with Eaves last week, so I can't think why it couldn't work with Heatley or Alfie as well. Vermette should be perfect with them, because he's speedy enough to anchor the line defensively and he's got solid offensive instincts. Heck, if he can hit four targets in four shots at the skills competition, surely he can bury a few tape to tape passes from Spezza. Assuming they did go there again and it worked, I guess that leaves us with this:

Vermette Spezza Heatley
Eaves Comrie Alfredsson
Schaefer Fisher Neil
McAmmond Kelly Schubert

or

Vermette Spezza Alfredsson
Eaves Comrie Heatley
Schaefer Fisher Neil
McAmmond Kelly Schubert

You know, those are not half bad.


Last edited by senility: 02-08-2007 at 04:00 PM.
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Old
02-08-2007, 04:34 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by senility View Post

I always thought that line would work too or Vermette-Spezza-Heatley, but the few times they've tried, they've been absolutely brutal. My only memory of them is Vermette going offside every second play. I used to think that Vermette and Spezza just didn't have any chemistry together, but they looked good when they played with Eaves last week, so I can't think why it couldn't work with Heatley or Alfie as well. Vermette should be perfect with them, because he's speedy enough to anchor the line defensively and he's got solid offensive instincts. Heck, if he can hit four targets in four shots at the skills competition, surely he can bury a few tape to tape passes from Spezza. Assuming they did go there again and it worked, I guess that leaves us with this:

Vermette Spezza Heatley
Eaves Comrie Alfredsson
Schaefer Fisher Neil
McAmmond Kelly Schubert

or

Vermette Spezza Alfredsson
Eaves Comrie Heatley
Schaefer Fisher Neil
McAmmond Kelly Schubert

You know, those are not half bad.
Yeah, I'd like those lines too. It's hilarious (or not) how there are so many line combinations that I'd be happy with, and Murray can't land on ONE of them (though again, I do like the direction he's taken now).

As for Vermette with Spezza and Heatley, I wonder if it would be as mediocre now as it was last season. Vermette simply didn't look confident on either of the top lines last year, but he's pretty much put that behind him this year. And I did think Vermette-Spezza-Eaves looked pretty good for the whole game and a half they were together -- certainly better than Schaefer-Spezza-Fisher, IMO. Vermette and Spezza have been together on a handful of nice PP plays this year too (generally 5 on 3 situations pre-Comrie, I think). I really don't think either combination is that big a stretch, especially since Vermette had established some chemistry with Alfie earlier on this year, and some with Heatley on the PK.

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Old
02-09-2007, 02:03 PM
  #42
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I found this quote interesting.

Quote:
Today Neil skated on a line with Dany Heatley and Jason Spezza. While Murray likes what he saw after reuniting Heatley and Spezza together last night, he says the third member of the line could alternate. Neil won’t necessarily be with the pair tomorrow when the club visits Montreal.

“It may be a variety of guys who play there, it depends on who we’re playing,” Murray said, looking ahead to the remainder of the season. “It might be Patrick Eaves, Chris Neil or Mike Comrie.”
While I hate the idea of Neil being there, I wouldn't mind seeing Comrie given a shot there. Plus, it puts together the Vermette-Kelly-Eaves line, which has actually worked well in the past.

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Old
02-09-2007, 02:12 PM
  #43
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We have depth .

That's good.

I didn't think we had that at the start of the year.

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02-09-2007, 02:14 PM
  #44
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Comrie might be a good fit, I don't know if he's any good on the wing though.

Where's the quote from?

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Old
02-09-2007, 02:18 PM
  #45
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It could be worse, you guys could have Guy Carbonneau doing your lines.

He had Mark Streit (5-6th D, has only been playing forward since November and only on the 4th line) on our first line with Johnson (defensive forward with offensive capabilities) and Saku Koivu.

He has Latendresse on the 2nd line (isn't ready for this role yet) with Kovalev (who needs to be on the 1st line with Koivu to produce).

He has Garth Murray and Aaron Downey who are carreer AHL/ECHLers on the 4th line instead of inserting Sergei Samsonov or Alexander Perezhogin.

In retrospective, Murray might not be the best, but he isn't the worst (although he does have more to work with).

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Old
02-09-2007, 02:23 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mars Volchenkov View Post
I found this quote interesting.


While I hate the idea of Neil being there, I wouldn't mind seeing Comrie given a shot there. Plus, it puts together the Vermette-Kelly-Eaves line, which has actually worked well in the past.
Meh, I'm not that big a fan of Vermette-Kelly-Eaves. That said, I'll take ANYTHING to keep Neil off the top line. Oh, Murray.

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Old
02-09-2007, 04:21 PM
  #47
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Never have never will like Murrays selection of lines, nor his game management from behind the bench. He was totally schooled by Lindy Ruff in the playoffs. He is however a great judge of player talent, and would be a great GM.

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02-09-2007, 04:35 PM
  #48
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I think the Neil on the top line thing is temporary. Apparently Alfie and Comrie didn't practice today, so I wouldn't read too much into those combinations.

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Old
02-09-2007, 04:53 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pothier View Post
hockeybuzz.com. eklund reporting he spoke with murray after tonight, hes looking to shake it up a bit:

Priessing-Neil-Eaves
Spezza-Schubert-McAmmond
Schaefer-Heatley-Volchenkov
Fisher-Redden-Eaves

Vermette-Corvo
Phillips-Meszaros
Alfredsson-Comrie

Kelly
Gratts

No Gratts Emery Neil Capital Punishment line?

I think Spezz would be a great goalie, with all of his flexibility. He doesn't like physical play, so a goalie post is ideal for him.

That Philips - Meszaros on defense is nonsense. Philips is finally getting in his offensive prime and should be on the first line, left wing.

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02-11-2007, 02:51 PM
  #50
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I can't think of where else to put this, but I thought this was an interesting little blurb:
Quote:
Senators coach Bryan Murray is right when he says Vermette plays his best hockey alongside Chris Kelly.
Aside from the PK, I still just don't see this. Am I the only one who thinks the pairing on that line is Comrie-Vermette, not Kelly-Vermette?

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