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Can we put these threads to rest?

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Old
02-08-2007, 02:41 PM
  #1
TomPlex
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Can we put these threads to rest?

I know that it's quite an oxymoron for me to be making ANOTHER thread, but hopefully mine will stop the rest.

There's two mentalities people at HF have at the moment. I will discuss both, and show why there will never be agreement between the two.

1) Carbonneau is doing the right thing by not dressing Samsonov or giving Perezhogin a spot on one of the scoring lines. His message is simple in that you have to work hard and EARN your spot on the top line. If you don't earn it, harder working players like Downey and Murray will take your spot. This is a good method for teaching players a lesson and hoping that they respond, and it builds team chemistry. As we have seen over the past few games, Downey and Murray are giving this team a lot of extra intensity, and most of us are very thankful. This intensity got us the win against Ottawa a few games ago.

And now for the second solution (which I personally believe in):

2) Carbo is being an idiot right now. We're not at a point in the season where we have the luxury of punishing players and hoping for them to respond. We no longer have a cushion of points; if we lose the next two games, we could very easily be out of the playoffs. We need results, and we need them now. If he continues punishing players like Perezhogin and Samsonov, these two will never get going on time. Don't get me wrong, they may respond, but I think it will be far too late. If we lose the next two CRUCIAL games, we could be ****ed. IMO, there is no difference between a 1-0 game for the opposition and a 5-4 game for the opposition, except for the fact that a 5-4 game has the possibility to be a 2-4 or 3-4 game if your goalie is good. Aaron Downey and Garth Murray will not score us goals. They can do all the want stopping the other team from scoring, but they won't score themselves.

The solution is simple: act now and hope it works out. That point is key to the argument. All of you naysayers will say that Samsonov and Perezhogin haven't been a part of the team's success in the past, and they won't be now. The truth is that right now we don't know what the future holds for either player. Right now, we are HOPING that they'll pay off. Forget about who deserves the spot. Right now you have to hope that the players score goals, and you can only have the hope if the right players are in the lineup. Play Samsonov with Koivu and Kovalev, and hope that they create magic like Zednik - Koivu - Kovalev did in the playoffs. Play Higgins - Plekanec - Perezhogin and hope that the kids can go out there, have fun, and score. At this point, all you can really have is hope. Clean everyone's slate, and start fresh.

That's all. I really hope that everyone realizes that there really only are two arguments here, and that they will never coincide because they're completely opposite. Having long discussions about them will never lead to anything.

PLEASE DON'T MAKE IT SEEM LIKE I'M TRYING TO PUSH MY THEORIES HERE. I'm simply stating both sides and hoping that people can just move on.


Last edited by TomPlex: 02-08-2007 at 03:26 PM.
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Old
02-08-2007, 02:44 PM
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Tuggy
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Subtle way to just promote your beliefs and opinions. And I agree...we didn't need another thread like this.

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02-08-2007, 02:45 PM
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Habs10Habs
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Total agreement on #2

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02-08-2007, 02:46 PM
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TomPlex
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Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
Subtle way to just promote your beliefs and opinions. And I agree...we didn't need another thread like this.
In all honesty, that wasn't my intent at all. I just happen to agree with #2. But don't you agree that people either believe 1 or 2? There isn't much else to say after that...

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02-08-2007, 02:51 PM
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tell me something I dont know

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Old
02-08-2007, 02:53 PM
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tell me something I dont know
My Cat has 4 paws

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02-08-2007, 02:53 PM
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Tuggy
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Originally Posted by TomPlex View Post
In all honesty, that wasn't my intent at all. I just happen to agree with #2. But don't you agree that people either believe 1 or 2? There isn't much else to say after that...
I agree but you are really just stating the obvious. I'm not trying to rip on you or anything.

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02-08-2007, 03:01 PM
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TomPlex
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Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
I agree but you are really just stating the obvious. I'm not trying to rip on you or anything.
The point of this thread IS to state the obvious. I just want people to drop the arguments because they won't lead to anything. There are clearly two distinct opinions that are completely opposite, hence have no happy medium.

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02-08-2007, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by TomPlex View Post
The point of this thread IS to state the obvious. I just want people to drop the arguments because they won't lead to anything. There are clearly two distinct opinions that are completely opposite, hence have no happy medium.
Don't worry TP, some people just can't read.

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02-08-2007, 03:03 PM
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I don't think it's a good idea to play Murray and Downey, esp. Downey. Downey isn't Chris Neill. I doubt a message is being sent tonight. I think that it's believed that at least 1 of Murray/Downey should be there. Mtl is just too pleasant to play against. They need a better version of Murray but neither Perez/Sammy fill that role.

I see 2 scenarios right now.

1 Sammy's in play, and is being held out until they are sure of yay or nay.

2 They committed to a lineup including Perez. and feel they owe it to him. It could be a 1 from this duo and 1 from this duo type of thing.

Messages have been sent, it's a matter of who fits on which night. You can't overload on finesse, it hasn't worked.

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02-08-2007, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
I don't think it's a good idea to play Murray and Downey, esp. Downey. Downey isn't Chris Neill. I doubt a message is being sent tonight. I think that it's believed that at least 1 of Murray/Downey should be there. Mtl is just too pleasant to play against. They need a better version of Murray but neither Perez/Sammy fill that role.

I see 2 scenarios right now.

1 Sammy's in play, and is being held out until they are sure of yay or nay.

2 They committed to a lineup including Perez. and feel they owe it to him. It could be a 1 from this duo and 1 from this duo type of thing.

Messages have been sent, it's a matter of who fits on which night. You can't overload on finesse, it hasn't worked.
Good point McPhee, that makes a lot of sense.

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02-08-2007, 03:11 PM
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LesHabsRock
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Originally Posted by TomPlex View Post
I know that it's quite an oxymoron for me to be making ANOTHER thread, but hopefully mine will stop the rest.
All you're doing is imposing your opinion on the rest of us as the end all and be all for the arguments you mention. I don't mind that you have an opinion, but for you to say that we need to stop these threads is wrong on your part. Oxymoron is right.

If you see other threads on the topic turn the other cheek. I believe that solves your problem.

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02-08-2007, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by LesHabsRock View Post
All you're doing is imposing your opinion on the rest of us as the end all and be all for the arguments you mention. I don't mind that you have an opinion, but for you to say that we need to stop these threads is wrong on your part. Oxymoron is right.

If you see other threads on the topic turn the other cheek. I believe that solves your problem.
Not at all my man. Did you complete forget about solution 1? How is that any different from the opinions you've seen around here?

I didn't make this thread so that people could discuss in here. I made it so that hopefully smart people would see it and say: "I guess he's right. There are two sides here, and they will never agree with each other. Arguing is useless." I don't want people coming here saying that one of the arguments is right.

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02-08-2007, 03:35 PM
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LesHabsRock
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Originally Posted by TomPlex View Post
Not at all my man. Did you complete forget about solution 1? How is that any different from the opinions you've seen around here?

I didn't make this thread so that people could discuss in here. I made it so that hopefully smart people would see it and say: "I guess he's right. There are two sides here, and they will never agree with each other. Arguing is useless." I don't want people coming here saying that one of the arguments is right.
The same can be said about any debate on these boards. I don't understand why you feel yours is different and is only specific to this topic. There are going to be varying opinions on every topic we discuss on HFBoards. That's what debate is all about.

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02-08-2007, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
I don't think it's a good idea to play Murray and Downey, esp. Downey. Downey isn't Chris Neill. I doubt a message is being sent tonight. I think that it's believed that at least 1 of Murray/Downey should be there. Mtl is just too pleasant to play against. They need a better version of Murray but neither Perez/Sammy fill that role.

I see 2 scenarios right now.

1 Sammy's in play, and is being held out until they are sure of yay or nay.

2 They committed to a lineup including Perez. and feel they owe it to him. It could be a 1 from this duo and 1 from this duo type of thing.

Messages have been sent, it's a matter of who fits on which night. You can't overload on finesse, it hasn't worked.
i agree , messages have been sent but i feel it's a matter of who receives the message because samsonov isn't the only problem on this team . it's time for this team to get out of cruise control and put their foot on the gas ....... and keep it there because it's put up or shut-up time . the next couple of games should give us some indications of the effects of said messages .

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02-08-2007, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by LesHabsRock View Post
The same can be said about any debate on these boards. I don't understand why you feel yours is different and is only specific to this topic. There are going to be varying opinions on every topic we discuss on HFBoards. That's what debate is all about.
Debating doesn't occur for the sake of debating. People argue because they feel that their opinion is the right one, and often that will lead to a resolve. In this case, there is no resolve, so there's no point in arguing because both sides are so far apart. (Jesus I feel like I'm in pre-new-CBA era

I just hate coming here and seeing 50 new threads about "problem with Guy" "why sammy not playing?" "why sammy shouldn't be played" "the problem with the team is..." and so on.

I know that my thread isn't much better, but at least mine's here as a protest to the other ones

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02-08-2007, 03:44 PM
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LesHabsRock
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Originally Posted by TomPlex View Post
Debating doesn't occur for the sake of debating. People argue because they feel that their opinion is the right one, and often that will lead to a resolve. In this case, there is no resolve, so there's no point in arguing because both sides are so far apart. (Jesus I feel like I'm in pre-new-CBA era

I just hate coming here and seeing 50 new threads about "problem with Guy" "why sammy not playing?" "why sammy shouldn't be played" "the problem with the team is..." and so on.

I know that my thread isn't much better, but at least mine's here as a protest to the other ones
What you're failing to understand (with all due respect) is that no debate is black and white as you would have us believe. Yes, you stated two major arguments about the Carbonneau fiasco. Fair enough, however, there are usually various interpretations of any given topic. It all comes down to the presence of passionate fans who want to voice their opinions and there could very well be 100 different varieties and spins to them. That's the basis for the boards.

People argue because they believe their opinion is the right one. Absolutely. That is why collective inference is necessary to come up with the most logical solution. It's all about deducing and inferring.

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Old
02-08-2007, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by TomPlex View Post
Not at all my man. Did you complete forget about solution 1? How is that any different from the opinions you've seen around here?

I didn't make this thread so that people could discuss in here. I made it so that hopefully smart people would see it and say: "I guess he's right. There are two sides here, and they will never agree with each other. Arguing is useless." I don't want people coming here saying that one of the arguments is right.
sorry tom but i'm going to voice my opinion here weather you like it or not because thats what this board is for . may i suggest that if you don't like certain threads then just decline to read them , thats what i do .

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