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Cujo's agent say no to buy-out

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12-08-2003, 04:51 AM
  #1
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Cujo's agent say no to buy-out

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/storie...9540067020.xml

Quote:
Goaltender Curtis Joseph reported to AHL affiliate Grand Rapids on Saturday and served as the backup against St. John's. His agent, Don Meehan, attended the Wings-Leafs game said that he and Joseph will not agree to a buyout. Meehan said Joseph is prepared to remain in Grand Rapids until a trade can be consummated, hopefully later this season


Looks like he'll be in Grand Rapids for a long time. Cujo has done nothing to this point to increase any trade value he once had. And i doubt playing in Grand Rapids will really help.

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12-08-2003, 05:36 AM
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What happens if Cujo get's lit-up in Grand Rapids?

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12-08-2003, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Oylerz
What happens if Cujo get's lit-up in Grand Rapids?
Then it's off to the ECHL.

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12-08-2003, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by 50 Mission Cap
Then it's off to the ECHL.
I can't wait until that first Irbe vs CuJo clash in the ECHL!!!!!!!

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12-08-2003, 06:29 AM
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Why would he say yes to a buy out? It would be insane for him to do so. The Wings have no choice but to pay him an amazing $16 million (maybe 24 mill if they win the cup) no matter where he is so why should he do anything other than say "I am going to be the best pro I can be wherever they send me" and keep cashing his paychecks. I mean, we ask these blokes to be pros and play with 100% effort each night, to be pro atheletes who work hard for thier money every shift and then we want to be able to use different standards when it comes to thier contracts just because they are capable of giving our teams what we want from them? To me, a deal is a deal, no matter how good or bad it is. It is bloody wrong each time a player has a solid season and they hold out to "re negotiate" thier contracts and this is the same in reverse. I say that a deal is a deal and the Wings didn't promise Cujo that they would make him the #1 in Det every game so Cujo has to play wherever he is sent. Cujo didn't promise the Wings that if things don't work out right and if they want to bring back Hasek that he would let them buy him out so they have to honor the contract and pay him.

I just see it simple as they both made deals that aren't working for either but the deal is what is important and the Wings have to pay Cujo the promised amount and he has to play where he is sent. Easy peasey.

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12-08-2003, 06:40 AM
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NHL problem vs. NFL - Gauranteed contracts. Next up? CBA negotiations.

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12-08-2003, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punchy1
Why would he say yes to a buy out? It would be insane for him to do so. The Wings have no choice but to pay him an amazing $16 million (maybe 24 mill if they win the cup) no matter where he is so why should he do anything other than say "I am going to be the best pro I can be wherever they send me" and keep cashing his paychecks. I mean, we ask these blokes to be pros and play with 100% effort each night, to be pro atheletes who work hard for thier money every shift and then we want to be able to use different standards when it comes to thier contracts just because they are capable of giving our teams what we want from them? To me, a deal is a deal, no matter how good or bad it is. It is bloody wrong each time a player has a solid season and they hold out to "re negotiate" thier contracts and this is the same in reverse. I say that a deal is a deal and the Wings didn't promise Cujo that they would make him the #1 in Det every game so Cujo has to play wherever he is sent. Cujo didn't promise the Wings that if things don't work out right and if they want to bring back Hasek that he would let them buy him out so they have to honor the contract and pay him.

I just see it simple as they both made deals that aren't working for either but the deal is what is important and the Wings have to pay Cujo the promised amount and he has to play where he is sent. Easy peasey.
Why would he not take a buyout?? If Cujo wants to get back to playing, he has no other choice. The buyout won't be for 1 or 2 million either. He's got about 14 million left on his contract, he could agree to a buyout of 7 million, become a free agent and then sign with a team for 3 million for the rest of the season. Let's face it, Cujo's not getting any younger and in my proposal he'll actually get paid more than he would playing this year.

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12-08-2003, 07:03 AM
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Fair enough. I just think that it is way to easy to be cavalier when its someone elses money. IF he were to do as you suggested he would get nowhere near the same money in fact, he would be taking a huge paycut. Why bother, he has a solid promised binding $14mill and if the Wings win the cup he gets another $8 right now, why bother doing anything that doesn't pay him that same amount? If we follow your logic then why don't the wings buy him out for the full contract price?

I don't have $20million dollars. I do have a bit of dosh though and I know that if someone had a contract with me for that kind of money I would bloody well want every penny of it. See, the Wings signed him off of the free agent market. He could have gone anywhere he wanted to and gotten a contract that paid him the same or less (i don't think anyone would have offered more). He wouldn't be in this situation if he hadn't signed with the Wings so why should he do anything that would cost him one penny of the money that they owe him?

He might have signed for the same amount with another team at that time and still be thier go to guy and if he agreed to a but out now, with the looming cba and all there is no possible way that he would get close. Like I said, its easy to tell others what to do with thier money but I wonder how cavalier you would be if it were your own. Not a knock mate, just wondering.

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12-08-2003, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dar
NHL problem vs. NFL - Gauranteed contracts. Next up? CBA negotiations.
If the NHL gets rid of gauranteed contracts, we'll be seing 20 times more Yashin scenarios than we currently see.

Players and teams should honor contracts, or what's the point.

The NFL is slimey.

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12-08-2003, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punchy1
Fair enough. I just think that it is way to easy to be cavalier when its someone elses money. IF he were to do as you suggested he would get nowhere near the same money in fact, he would be taking a huge paycut. Why bother, he has a solid promised binding $14mill and if the Wings win the cup he gets another $8 right now, why bother doing anything that doesn't pay him that same amount? If we follow your logic then why don't the wings buy him out for the full contract price?

I don't have $20million dollars. I do have a bit of dosh though and I know that if someone had a contract with me for that kind of money I would bloody well want every penny of it. See, the Wings signed him off of the free agent market. He could have gone anywhere he wanted to and gotten a contract that paid him the same or less (i don't think anyone would have offered more). He wouldn't be in this situation if he hadn't signed with the Wings so why should he do anything that would cost him one penny of the money that they owe him?

He might have signed for the same amount with another team at that time and still be thier go to guy and if he agreed to a but out now, with the looming cba and all there is no possible way that he would get close. Like I said, its easy to tell others what to do with thier money but I wonder how cavalier you would be if it were your own. Not a knock mate, just wondering.

Maybe he wants to play. Its not always about money. He doesn't have too many years left and right now he's just wasting his capabilites in Grand Rapids. Sure, he might get an 8 million dollar bonus if the Wings win the cup and he might just get to put his name on it, but whats the point if he had nothing to do with it. If I were Joseph, I wouldn't want the Wings to win the Cup with Hasek in net.

Standard buyouts are 2/3 of the contract. Joseph should just take a buyout and seek out his own deal and get out of the Wings organization.

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Old
12-08-2003, 07:28 AM
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What i'm trying to say is why doesn't Cujo accept the buyout and then sign somewhere for like 1.2 million for the rest of the year. I'm sure there's some teams that would take him on at that price, Edmonton maybe?

BTW, I hate Cujo with a passion.

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12-08-2003, 07:37 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen Wilson
What i'm trying to say is why doesn't Cujo accept the buyout and then sign somewhere for like 1.2 million for the rest of the year. I'm sure there's some teams that would take him on at that price, Edmonton maybe?

BTW, I hate Cujo with a passion.
It depends on how much the Wings are offering in the buyout. I don't think the figures are out in the public yet.

If Cujo really wants to play in the NHL, he should try to negotiate a buyout IMO. Even if he plays well in Grand Rapids, that won't change anything. Right now as I see it, the only way he is going to get moved is if some goalie(s) on a contender get injured badly. If Cujo were a free agent again and was willing to sign for cheap, the number of teams interested would increase greatly.

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12-08-2003, 07:39 AM
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I thought you had to offer at least 2/3rds of the remaining contract per CBA rules?

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12-08-2003, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hecht
I thought you had to offer at least 2/3rds of the remaining contract per CBA rules?
I believe thats what the original offer has to be, but I think it can be negotiated.

Can someone confirm this?

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12-08-2003, 07:46 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen Wilson
I believe thats what the original offer has to be, but I think it can be negotiated.

Can someone confirm this?
Pretty sure that the 2/3 rule is the standard in the CBA. So the Wings are offering less because (pretty sure on this) if they did the 2/3 thing Cujo would be bought out already.

I think you can buy out any of your players if you pay two thirds of the contract.

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12-08-2003, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punchy1
Fair enough. I just think that it is way to easy to be cavalier when its someone elses money. IF he were to do as you suggested he would get nowhere near the same money in fact, he would be taking a huge paycut. Why bother, he has a solid promised binding $14mill and if the Wings win the cup he gets another $8 right now, why bother doing anything that doesn't pay him that same amount? If we follow your logic then why don't the wings buy him out for the full contract price?

I don't have $20million dollars. I do have a bit of dosh though and I know that if someone had a contract with me for that kind of money I would bloody well want every penny of it. See, the Wings signed him off of the free agent market. He could have gone anywhere he wanted to and gotten a contract that paid him the same or less (i don't think anyone would have offered more). He wouldn't be in this situation if he hadn't signed with the Wings so why should he do anything that would cost him one penny of the money that they owe him?

He might have signed for the same amount with another team at that time and still be thier go to guy and if he agreed to a but out now, with the looming cba and all there is no possible way that he would get close. Like I said, its easy to tell others what to do with thier money but I wonder how cavalier you would be if it were your own. Not a knock mate, just wondering.

I agree.

In fact I'm sure a bit of this is personal on Cujo's part. I mean they sign this guy to the contract and they start dicking him around once Hasek say's I want back in the NHL.

If I were in Joseph's shoes I may do the same thing.

Yes the CBA stipulates that the way to buy out a contract is to offer 2/3'rds of the remaining portion of the deal, but it has to be accepted. If I'm Cujo I tell Detroit to shove the offer up their rear-ends. I'll take my money and hope and pray that they win the Cup.

22 million over the next 2.5 years cannot be made up by agreeing to a buy-out and signing on the cheap with another club.

Stanley Cups are not a sure thing no matter where you play but this contract is and it would be stupid for Cujo to forefit the amount of money he is being asked to forefit just so he would be doing the Red-Wings organization favor. What have they done for him that they warrant this?

Please don't say they gave him the contract, no one twisted their arm to do it and they did it for selfish reasons, not to help out a guy down on his luck.

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12-08-2003, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coffey77
Pretty sure that the 2/3 rule is the standard in the CBA. So the Wings are offering less because (pretty sure on this) if they did the 2/3 thing Cujo would be bought out already.

I think you can buy out any of your players if you pay two thirds of the contract.

The players has to accept the offer.

The only time you can do it without the players consent is after the season is over.

Same thing happened with the Rangers and John MacLean, they offered the 2/3rds buyout option and he declined and was sent to Manitoba in the old IHL

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12-08-2003, 08:09 AM
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I think they have to pay him in full this year plus 2/3rds of next year.

The hold up is Detroit think there will be a lockout so they will be paying a lot of money they could have saved if theres no hockey.

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12-08-2003, 08:11 AM
  #19
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Oh poor poor Curtis. Have your feelings been hurt by being treated so poorly?

Oh wait, you WILL take the money after all.

Well, somethings never change, eh Curtis?

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12-08-2003, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666

I'll take my money and hope and pray that they win the Cup.
Not everyone is all about the money.

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12-08-2003, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen Wilson
Not everyone is all about the money.

You are correct, and if he was younger I think that he may be willing to do what you are suggesting, but to think that giving up anywhere between 3-11 million over the next 2.5 years is a little off.

Would you be willing to forefit up to 11 million at the opportunity to play?
After already being in the league for 14 years?

No not everyone is about the money, but a sensable decision is a sensable decision.

And if a player is expected to uphold a contract then a team should be held to those same standards.

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12-08-2003, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen Wilson
Not everyone is all about the money.
I'm not convinced this is all about money, though. Cujo did get scapegoated for the playoff loss last year, and he probably feels the Wings haven't exactly done right by him. So why would he want to do them any favors by agreeing to a buyout?

If anything, the threat of a lockout means he'd probably make more money by taking the buyout now + signing elsewhere for a decent amount, because if next season gets largely washed out he could easily miss out on what he'd lose in a buyout anyway. Unless his contract is lockout-protected, from a financial perspective he might be best off taking the buyout.

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12-08-2003, 08:35 AM
  #23
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True but, if it were your money and your career and your salary who knows what you would do, it is easy to say you would take whatever offered and go play somewhere else. Not bloody likely I say. The Wings are to blame on this one as they took him off the market and *promised* him $8mill per for his contract plus another $8 if they win the cup *I know* and then chose to bring in another player to do his job. Not Cujo's fault at all mate and in that, what is his motivation to take less money when, if the Wings would have kept thier promise he would be playing in the NHL today and if they hadn't made the promise he would be playing for another team in the NHL as we speak. (unless an injury or something along those lines) So, those are the breaks and if anything players in Cujo's situation (who I too don't like as a player and think wasn't worth the money to begin with) might have an actionable position in that an agreement were made in good faith that he would be thier starting goalie and now the wings are sending him off to camp not giving him the chance that were promissed to him. That's what I think anyway but in the end, I will stick with the fact that there is just no reason for him to do anything except take his check, cash it, and play where he is sent. He seems to be doing that right now so you can't blame him for any of it.

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12-08-2003, 08:40 AM
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Another way to ask the question is this, we would all love to play in the NHL I think, if anyone could play but the cost were $11million us to get on a team (don't go into how bad the sport would suck mates, you know what I am saying) would you do it?

Is it worth $11 million to you to play for the sake of playing? If you didn't have the 11 but had in the nieghborhood of 8 and once you were in you knew you would likely get back around $4 mill of it if you played well enough and stayed healthy over the next two years would you do it. I mean, we are talking about Millions of American dollars here. Dollars that you have to cut in half due to the insane taxes and then you have to take 10% of the total (prior to taxes) and give it to your Agent as well. I mean, like I said, its easy to be cavalier with other peoples money.

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12-08-2003, 08:45 AM
  #25
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2/3 of 16 million is 10 560 000.

***This is what I would do, you can agree with me or not***

Since a quarter of the season has already passed and i've already received 2 million, I'd negotiate a buyout for 6 million. Detroit saves a wad of cash by agreeing to this buyout. I'd sign with another team for the remainder of the year for 1 - 2 million, hopefully a possible playoff bound team. Become a free agent next year.

16 million for sitting on my ass and playing in the minors.


8-9 million plus next years salary and playing in the NHL, hoping to prove Detroit made the wrong decision.

I'd sacrifice the few million to clear my name.

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