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Old
02-09-2007, 06:04 PM
  #51
PeterSidorkiewicz
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I've said everything I've had to say about this topic. Maybe its time for some others here to voice there opinions.
Well ill keep it short and sweet. When you get paid that much youre going to get scrutinized, comes with the territory, but thats a whole other debate.

Redden SHOULD be playing better than he is right now IMO, I know for a fact that hes a better player than what hes showing at the moment. His decisions in the offensive zone look pretty sloppy game after game. I'm just hoping he'll hit his groove soon enough.

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02-09-2007, 06:06 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by PeterSidorkiewicz View Post
Well ill keep it short and sweet. When you get paid that much youre going to get scrutinized, comes with the territory, but thats a whole other debate.

Redden SHOULD be playing better than he is right now IMO, I know for a fact that hes a better player than what hes showing at the moment. His decisions in the offensive zone look pretty sloppy game after game. I'm just hoping he'll hit his groove soon enough.
yes he should be playing better and he will turn his game around....he always does

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02-09-2007, 07:27 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Suiteness View Post
These threads are completly useless. The ONLY way Redden comes back next year is if this team is playing for the Stanley cup in June. Anything less will see him pack his bags in the summer.
I can help pack....just being helpful.

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02-09-2007, 07:30 PM
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I agree with Caseus.

Deal with him after the playoffs.

But what if you can get a player, or two now, that could bring you closer to the Holy Grail?

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02-09-2007, 07:38 PM
  #55
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My intent with this thread was simply to point out that there seems to be a lot of 'free passes' being given to Redden. I think he's a great d-man, and is capable of being a top 10 in this league at that position. Maybe a top 5. In those few games where he's really on, he's REALLY on. He's poised and in control, and the Sens ALWAYS seem to win those games. It's just that at the salary he brings in, Wade has to be that type of player far more often. He was the first to criticize the team last year after the playoffs for their lack of experience winning close games, and yet there are too many close games where he's the one looking like the raw rookie.

The team needs you to play better, Wade. That's all. Step it up, brother...

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02-09-2007, 07:45 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by billpo View Post
But what if you can get a player, or two now, that could bring you closer to the Holy Grail?
Who are these players? About the only player that could garuntee you to get closer is Brodeur. Anyone else is a crap shoot.

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02-09-2007, 09:22 PM
  #57
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Redden is a good defenseman so of course the team is better with him. But at 6.5M I need to see more than a friendly wins vs loss record with him in the lineup. How about seeing some dominant defensive play for once? Because the wins statistics so many people like to bring up would be the exact same if one of Phillips or Volchenkov went out for a long while. But those two battle too hard and are too solid to miss as many games as soft, breakable Wade.

Redden has been steady. That's about it. And maybe steady isn't even the right word as he still gives the puck away far too much when making one of his trademark breakout passes. Or he makes totally unforced errors (see: the delay of game call last night to put us down 2 men for an extended period of time). With a strong forecheck presence he'd probably be the last defenseman I'd want out there. Even Joe Corvo - for all of his defensive short-comings - still manages to spin off / evade forecheckers quite a bit with his slickness and also moves the puck much quicker to escape punishment.

Wade Redden hasn't been bad by any means. But Wade Redden has also not been this team's best defenseman at any point in time this season IMO. That's not acceptable when he's making 6.5M. I hope we trade him this off-season and get suitable a defenseman back in return / sign a solid UFA to cope with his loss. This team needs caproom. Other than Martin Gerber (who may yet find his form and has looked good recently / apparently great in practise) Redden's contract is the most unreasonanble.

I think only Chara, Niedermayer and Lidstrom make more money than Redden among NHL defensemen (not sure though, so don't quote me). He's not worth the money if he's in the same group as those guys. Lidstrom and Nieds are bonafide Norris candidates every year. Generation talents and proven leaders. Undisputed top 3 blueliners who can play outstanding defense and still put up a PPG. Veterans with wining experience. Chara, even if not as impressive on the ice, is still one of a kind in the league so he can justifiably infalte his value a bit. Wade Redden just doesn't match up.

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02-12-2007, 05:20 PM
  #58
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I am only quiet now because last time the mods got me for speaking up to Bilpo, I shot myself in the foot by being honest and saying that I am a Leafs fan who also likes and supports the Sens as I live in Ottawa (I know we are a rare breed) so I am not very welcome here.

But I will defend Wade Redden anyday, I think he is an awesome player, and I can't believe how often Ottawa fans dump on him (or Spezza or Alfie for that matter). I understand passion as a fan, but I just don't understand the mindset. You never see us Toronto fans dumping on Sundin for example, the way so many dump on Alfie, despite us being denied a cup for almost 40 years.

But back to Redden however. I admit that although I am a big hockey fan, I am not a technical master of the game, but I must be watching entirely different games then the rest of you all because I continue to see Wade make the plays like no one else in the league. He has an amazing ability to read the play and position himself where he needs to be to make the play happen. His efforts might not be as tangible or as flashy as a shooter, or as a shotblocker, but he is the guy I see creating the plays that get Spezza and Heatley a chance to throw it into the net.

I can't remember who it was that dismissed the fact that the team wins more often or not when he plays, as it not being enough. How can that not be enough? The team was on a losing streak that he snapped when he rejoined the team after his injuries. Have we all forgotten how much the team struggled when he injured? This team only began to really surge when he rejoined the team.

But hey, if you all don't want him....us Toronto fans would be happy to take him off your hands come the end of the season. Too bad he will never play for Toronto, that is because he shows the city of Ottawa more loyalty than most of you will ever show him.

Shame.

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02-12-2007, 06:14 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Sylph View Post
But I will defend Wade Redden anyday, I think he is an awesome player, and I can't believe how often Ottawa fans dump on him (or Spezza or Alfie for that matter). I understand passion as a fan, but I just don't understand the mindset. You never see us Toronto fans dumping on Sundin for example, the way so many dump on Alfie, despite us being denied a cup for almost 40 years.
Wow. Okay first off, Leaf fans are notorious for running players out of town. So don't you dare get all holier-than-thou on us, because that goat don't fly. Or is the expression "that bucket don't hold water?" Whatever works.

Second, virtually everyone on this board loves Wade Redden. The question isn't whether he's a good hockey player, it's whether he is worth 6.5 million dollars in a salary cap world. Like it or not, you have to ask those questions now. Alfie, for instance, is phenomenal. Alfie with a max contract is a horrible waste of money. Ditto Sundin.

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02-12-2007, 06:29 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Sylph View Post
I am only quiet now because last time the mods got me for speaking up to Bilpo, I shot myself in the foot by being honest and saying that I am a Leafs fan who also likes and supports the Sens as I live in Ottawa (I know we are a rare breed) so I am not very welcome here.

But I will defend Wade Redden anyday, I think he is an awesome player, and I can't believe how often Ottawa fans dump on him (or Spezza or Alfie for that matter). I understand passion as a fan, but I just don't understand the mindset. You never see us Toronto fans dumping on Sundin for example, the way so many dump on Alfie, despite us being denied a cup for almost 40 years.

But back to Redden however. I admit that although I am a big hockey fan, I am not a technical master of the game, but I must be watching entirely different games then the rest of you all because I continue to see Wade make the plays like no one else in the league. He has an amazing ability to read the play and position himself where he needs to be to make the play happen. His efforts might not be as tangible or as flashy as a shooter, or as a shotblocker, but he is the guy I see creating the plays that get Spezza and Heatley a chance to throw it into the net.

I can't remember who it was that dismissed the fact that the team wins more often or not when he plays, as it not being enough. How can that not be enough? The team was on a losing streak that he snapped when he rejoined the team after his injuries. Have we all forgotten how much the team struggled when he injured? This team only began to really surge when he rejoined the team.

But hey, if you all don't want him....us Toronto fans would be happy to take him off your hands come the end of the season. Too bad he will never play for Toronto, that is because he shows the city of Ottawa more loyalty than most of you will ever show him.

Shame.
Very good post.

Even when he is sruggling. Redden is usully the best d-man on the ice.

Everyone is jumping on Fuhr for pointing out how much better the Sens record is with a healthy Redden on the ice. Same goes for the playoffs-the Sens would not have won the first series against Tampa withought Redden,and how embarresing would that have been? Remember him flying back and forth to be with his dying mother
and then coming back to help the team to victory.

But look at other years, It was clear that the Sens are one team with Redden and another team without him before the Tampa series or this years play was ever entered into the record . Look at the record in previous years when Redden was out.

He is the engine who keeps this team running and the puck out of the Senators end.

I think sometimes people want him to be a different player-a rock em sock em player like Chara or Scott Stevens.

He is not that player. But Killer Kilrea thinks he is the best defenceman in the league for a reason.

He routinely makes so many plays, aside from his famous breakout pass, to get the Sens out of danger,even when he is not playing on top of his game.

But if he happens to be on the ice when a goal is scored, or is guilty of some flub, a dozen people are on here wailing and rending their garments.

And for those who think he dosent get enough crtiicism-how much is enough? He has been the whipping boy for the Sens his whole career here.

We're lucky to have him,whatever the cost.Many teams would gladly pay what he is getting and more. As he said when he resigned here, he is back here for the chance to win a cup with his long time freinds and brothers in arms.

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02-12-2007, 06:35 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by pepty View Post
Very good post.

Even when he is sruggling. Redden is usully the best d-man on the ice.

Everyone is jumping on Fuhr for pointing out how much better the Sens record is with a healthy Redden on the ice. Same goes for the playoffs-the Sens would not have won the first series against Tampa withought Redden,and how embarresing would that have been? Remember him flying back and forth to be with his dying mother
and then coming back to help the team to victory.

But look at other years, It was clear that the Sens are one team with Redden and another team without him before the Tampa series or this years play was ever entered into the record . Look at the record in previous years when Redden was out.

He is the engine who keeps this team running and the puck out of the Senators end.

I think sometimes people want him to be a different player-a rock em sock em player like Chara or Scott Stevens.

He is not that player. But Killer Kilrea thinks he is the best defenceman in the league for a reason.

He routinely makes so many plays, aside from his famous breakout pass, to get the Sens out of danger,even when he is not playing on top of his game.

But if he happens to be on the ice when a goal is scored, or is guilty of some flub, a dozen people are on here wailing and rending their garments.

And for those who think he dosent get enough crtiicism-how much is enough? He has been the whipping boy for the Sens his whole career here.

We're lucky to have him,whatever the cost.Many teams would gladly pay what he is getting and more. As he said when he resigned here, he is back here for the chance to win a cup with his long time freinds and brothers in arms.


Best post I have read in a long time

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Old
02-12-2007, 06:43 PM
  #62
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Even when he is sruggling. Redden is usully the best d-man on the ice.
This I can't agree with. Both Phillips and Volchenkov have been better than Redden most of this season. Redden isn't and was never worth 6.5M, but it'd be nice if he could at least play like our #1 defenseman on the most of nights. Some games he is, but more often than not I find myself more impressed by Chris Phillips' performance. He even has 2 more goals than Wade. Granted, Redden has missed some time but he also averages 5 minutes on the PP per game. Phillips has only played 13 minutes of the man advantage all year (he averages 13 seconds).

Redden is currently playing like a solid two-way defenseman who is a great contributor on the second pairing, only with an elite breakout pass. That's quite nice to have but not good enough to justify 6.5M. In the cap world you have to spend your money wisely.

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02-12-2007, 07:03 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Clutch Mediocrity View Post
This I can't agree with. Both Phillips and Volchenkov have been better than Redden most of this season. Redden isn't and was never worth 6.5M, but it'd be nice if he could at least play like our #1 defenseman on the most of nights. Some games he is, but more often than not I find myself more impressed by Chris Phillips' performance. He even has 2 more goals than Wade. Granted, Redden has missed some time but he also averages 5 minutes on the PP per game. Phillips has only played 13 minutes of the man advantage all year (he averages 13 seconds).

Redden is currently playing like a solid two-way defenseman who is a great contributor on the second pairing, only with an elite breakout pass. That's quite nice to have but not good enough to justify 6.5M. In the cap world you have to spend your money wisely.
It has been great to see Vohcehnkov rebound this year from his slow start and turn into a shot blocking machine . He has contributed way beyond any expectations.

And Phillips has stepped it up in the regular season this time.

Both are great shut down defencmen who have admirably replaced Chara.

But neither could be a replacement for Wade Redden, neither is as important , not only for the defence but also for the offence and the overall functioning of the team.

To suggest that the team would miss either Volcehnkov or Philips if they were out is true, to suggest that the team would flounder as it does withut Redden is not true.

Wade Redden is a lot more than just a solid two way defenceman.

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02-12-2007, 07:25 PM
  #64
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Wow. Okay first off, Leaf fans are notorious for running players out of town. So don't you dare get all holier-than-thou on us, because that goat don't fly. Or is the expression "that bucket don't hold water?" Whatever works.

Second, virtually everyone on this board loves Wade Redden. The question isn't whether he's a good hockey player, it's whether he is worth 6.5 million dollars in a salary cap world. Like it or not, you have to ask those questions now. Alfie, for instance, is phenomenal. Alfie with a max contract is a horrible waste of money. Ditto Sundin.

Well I am not sure that much of your knee jerk reaction merits a legit response, but if you are going to accuse leafs of running players out of town, you better name names, because I think we actually have the patience of saints considering how long we have waited for a cup and how many times we have been disappointed.

In all my years in watching hockey, I have never seen a Leaf booed the way fans booed Spezza earlier this year, and he had like what? 3 bad games? Or the moment you lose a couple games, the radio shows are flooded with calls to trade Alfie, Redden and other vetern stars of this team. I am not listening to every single radio station and leafs call in show, (especially now that I live in Ottawa) but as a native Torontonian, I have never personally seen it while living in Toronto as a big hockey fan.

Certainly a discussion on the merits of Wade Redden is acceptable, I have no objection, this is after all a discussion board, but I say this as a fan of many of the Ottawa Senators, not as a leafs fan....a lot of them deserve better than the crap you all give them.

Is Wade worth 6.5 million...the answer is a simple yes. How am I sure? How many other teams were out there willing to pay him that much to join their team?

As long as other teams are willing to pay that salary, he is worth it. Free market rules over any one opinion any of you might have.

If Ottawa thinks they can live without him that is fine, maybe they can, in the end no player is indispensible, but he would be a loss to this team if he is traded, even with his current income.

Just my holier than thou 2 cents. Have a nice day.

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02-12-2007, 07:28 PM
  #65
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Very good post.

Even when he is sruggling. Redden is usully the best d-man on the ice.

Everyone is jumping on Fuhr for pointing out how much better the Sens record is with a healthy Redden on the ice. Same goes for the playoffs-the Sens would not have won the first series against Tampa withought Redden,and how embarresing would that have been? Remember him flying back and forth to be with his dying mother
and then coming back to help the team to victory.

But look at other years, It was clear that the Sens are one team with Redden and another team without him before the Tampa series or this years play was ever entered into the record . Look at the record in previous years when Redden was out.

He is the engine who keeps this team running and the puck out of the Senators end.

I think sometimes people want him to be a different player-a rock em sock em player like Chara or Scott Stevens.

He is not that player. But Killer Kilrea thinks he is the best defenceman in the league for a reason.

He routinely makes so many plays, aside from his famous breakout pass, to get the Sens out of danger,even when he is not playing on top of his game.

But if he happens to be on the ice when a goal is scored, or is guilty of some flub, a dozen people are on here wailing and rending their garments.

And for those who think he dosent get enough crtiicism-how much is enough? He has been the whipping boy for the Sens his whole career here.

We're lucky to have him,whatever the cost.Many teams would gladly pay what he is getting and more. As he said when he resigned here, he is back here for the chance to win a cup with his long time freinds and brothers in arms.
Damn just what i was thinking....well put

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02-12-2007, 07:57 PM
  #66
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Same goes for the playoffs-the Sens would not have won the first series against Tampa withought Redden,and how embarresing would that have been? Remember him flying back and forth to be with his dying mother
and then coming back to help the team to victory.
Redden in the Tampa series brought tears to my eyes. He was incredible.

Redden in the Buffalo series was incapable of playing a two on one if his life depended on it. He looked like a rookie defenseman who was cracking under the pressure. When we needed him most, when he had the perfect opportunity to show off his leadership abilities and be an impact player, he crumbled under the pressure.

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02-12-2007, 08:01 PM
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Redden in the Tampa series brought tears to my eyes. He was incredible.

Redden in the Buffalo series was incapable of playing a two on one if his life depended on it. He looked like a rookie defenseman who was cracking under the pressure. When we needed him most, when he had the perfect opportunity to show off his leadership abilities and be an impact player, he crumbled under the pressure.
Or perhaps he crumbled from the emotions he must have been feeling. His mom had just passed away. Maybe the pressure got to but who could blame him after such a tragedy, you could only play at a high level fr so long before reality began to set in.

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02-12-2007, 08:02 PM
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As long as other teams are willing to pay that salary, he is worth it. Free market rules over any one opinion any of you might have.
Worst argument I have read on these boards in months.

Ever heard of Martin Gerber? By your own words he's worth every penny. Or Todd Bertuzzi? Or Samsonov? I could dig out a list of terrible contracts if you like. Just because some team is willing to pay big bucks for someone doesn't mean they are worth that.

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02-12-2007, 08:10 PM
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Or perhaps he crumbled from the emotions he must have been feeling. His mom had just passed away. Maybe the pressure got to but who could blame him after such a tragedy, you could only play at a high level fr so long before reality began to set in.
That is quite possible, Fuhr. Doesn't change my comment though. If people want to praise his play vs Tampa, they have to accept that he was a terrible defenseman vs Buffalo.

I'm not going to sweat the Redden issue, personally. I am very glad to have him on the Sens.

As I've mentioned before, I wish we had given him a 3 year deal so we could keep him for another year before deciding if he says or goes. With next season being the last year of his contract, I'm pretty sure he'll be gone before the 2007-2008 season. Muckler will not want to risk losing him for nothing like he did Chara.

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02-12-2007, 08:17 PM
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That is quite possible, Fuhr. Doesn't change my comment though. If people want to praise his play vs Tampa, they have to accept that he was a terrible defenseman vs Buffalo.

I'm not going to sweat the Redden issue, personally. I am very glad to have him on the Sens.

As I've mentioned before, I wish we had given him a 3 year deal so we could keep him for another year before deciding if he says or goes. With next season being the last year of his contract, I'm pretty sure he'll be gone before the 2007-2008 season. Muckler will not want to risk losing him for nothing like he did Chara.
But you cant single him out for the bad defence...you can say the same thing for the dmen and a whole

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02-12-2007, 08:26 PM
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But you cant single him out for the bad defence...you can say the same thing for the dmen and a whole
I wasn't singling him out, I was saying that if you are going to praise Redden for the Tampa series, you have to accept that he sucked vs Buffalo. Sure, everyone else did too, but he IS our #1 defenseman. Expectations are higher for the #1 guy, and he sure didn't prove he deserved to be ranked among proven playoff performers like Pronger and Lidstrom. And yet somehow he's being paid like one.

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02-12-2007, 09:09 PM
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I wasn't singling him out, I was saying that if you are going to praise Redden for the Tampa series, you have to accept that he sucked vs Buffalo. Sure, everyone else did too, but he IS our #1 defenseman. Expectations are higher for the #1 guy, and he sure didn't prove he deserved to be ranked among proven playoff performers like Pronger and Lidstrom. And yet somehow he's being paid like one.
Seems to me that Detroit was a bigger disapointment than Ottawa in the playoffs last year.Didn't they go out in the first round despite Lidstrom? And the year before that?

They did win-with Hasek in goal. And maybe the Sens would have too.

And wasn't Pronger the scapegoat after the Canadians lost in the Olympics?

All great players yes-but there are ups and downs in their careers too.

However it is more than likely than their fans don't want them taken out and shot after a bad game.

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02-12-2007, 09:14 PM
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I think we could manage without him. Volchenkov and Phillips have really become our stu defensemen.

I would really like a trade to Edmonton for some depth:


Something like Redden for Torres and Bergeron!
please never post again, the day i see the defensman with arguably the greatest vision in the league for two bums who couldnt chalk up 20 goals in a season if their life depended on it will be the day i never watch this team again.

i would post our records with and without redden but im sure theyve been posteded hundreds of times.

he had some unlucky injuries this year but come playoff time you will be happy this team has an experienced defencman to fall back on, no disrespect to phillips or volchenkov but they werent too great in last years playoffs, but theyve both improved alot this year and i think they should be fine come april

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02-12-2007, 09:50 PM
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Redden is a very good defenceman, but not Elite.

He is very good on the offensive breakout, and also has led the defense in scoring for many years. He usually has great position on the offensive player when playing defensively.

However, he is weak on the player when defending. He typically plays the puck more than playing the man. He can be out-muscled when fighting for the puck. He is not so good on odd-man rushes. More annoyingly he has these occasional brain farts where he is just so so wrong in his decision making and is caught far out of position.

Soo IMHO he is a very good defenceman, definitely more offensive minded than defensive, and surely a top4 defenseman.
redden isnt as useless as people think on the defensive zone, hes very good at taking away angles and forcing bad shots, and do you want to name one player who is good on a 2 on 1? and his "brain farts" are very rare, but when they do happen everyone freaks out.

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02-13-2007, 08:02 AM
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billpo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caseus View Post
Worst argument I have read on these boards in months.

Ever heard of Martin Gerber? By your own words he's worth every penny. Or Todd Bertuzzi? Or Samsonov? I could dig out a list of terrible contracts if you like. Just because some team is willing to pay big bucks for someone doesn't mean they are worth that.

agree 100%.
I've been saying this forever Caseus....nobody listens around here, they just keep spewing stats.

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