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Old
02-13-2007, 12:59 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuhr86 View Post
Its ridiculous to think Reddens presence on the defense allows other defensemen to play roles more suited to there skill set. It ridiculous to think his 22+ minutes of ice time allows lesser minutes to other players thus allowing them to be more effective. Its ridiculous to think he sets the tone with his transition skill and helps make our offense so good at what they do (scoring goals off of turnovers)

Chalk me up too a ridiculous thinker.
Chalked.....

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02-13-2007, 01:00 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuhr86 View Post
Its ridiculous to think Reddens presence on the defense allows other defensemen to play roles more suited to there skill set. It ridiculous to think his 22+ minutes of ice time allows lesser minutes to other players thus allowing them to be more effective. Its ridiculous to think he sets the tone with his transition skill and helps make our offense so good at what they do (scoring goals off of turnovers)

Chalk me up too a ridiculous thinker.
Chalked.....

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02-13-2007, 01:07 PM
  #103
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Its ridiculous to think Reddens presence on the defense allows other defensemen to play roles more suited to there skill set. It ridiculous to think his 22+ minutes of ice time allows lesser minutes to other players thus allowing them to be more effective. Its ridiculous to think he sets the tone with his transition skill and helps make our offense so good at what they do (scoring goals off of turnovers)
Not saying these aren't true. Just saying Redden's $6.5 mil could probably be better spent elsewhere. And if we did let him go, you can bet our defence wouldn't be Phillip/Volchenkov/Meszaros/Corvo/Preissing/Schubert, so it's not really fair to look at that and say that players are out of their element. Obviously they are. That's what happens when you tie up $6.5 million in one player. It's inevitable that the rest of the guys won't be a very good unit without him.

So i'm not saying that he's not extremely important to the team right now. He is obviously very important, given the way our blueline is constructed (with four inexperienced players, a project offensive dman, and Phillips). But that doesn't mean that this was the best way to construct our defence.

Personally I don't think it was a BAD way to construct the defence this year, but given what I have seen so far I would look into alternatives for next season.

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02-13-2007, 01:09 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Lexicon Devil View Post
Not saying these aren't true. Just saying Redden's $6.5 mil could probably be better spent elsewhere. And if we did let him go, you can bet our defence wouldn't be Phillip/Volchenkov/Meszaros/Corvo/Preissing/Schubert, so it's not really fair to look at that and say that players are out of their element. Obviously they are. That's what happens when you tie up $6.5 million in one player. It's inevitable that the rest of the guys won't be a very good unit without him.

So i'm not saying that he's not extremely important to the team right now. He is obviously very important, given the way our blueline is constructed (with four inexperienced players, a project offensive dman, and Phillips). But that doesn't mean that this was the best way to construct our defence.

Personally I don't think it was a BAD way to construct the defence this year, but given what I have seen so far I would look into alternatives for next season.
I understand all that but whatever options did we have last year. Say we let Redden walk and have to sign a UFA defenseman. Kubina went for 5.0 do we go after him? Jovo was a 6.0 million dollar player so we pass on him. What other options did we have last off season?

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02-13-2007, 01:10 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexicon Devil View Post
Not saying these aren't true. Just saying Redden's $6.5 mil could probably be better spent elsewhere. And if we did let him go, you can bet our defence wouldn't be Phillip/Volchenkov/Meszaros/Corvo/Preissing/Schubert, so it's not really fair to look at that and say that players are out of their element. Obviously they are. That's what happens when you tie up $6.5 million in one player. It's inevitable that the rest of the guys won't be a very good unit without him.

So i'm not saying that he's not extremely important to the team right now. He is obviously very important, given the way our blueline is constructed (with four inexperienced players, a project offensive dman, and Phillips). But that doesn't mean that this was the best way to construct our defence.

Personally I don't think it was a BAD way to construct the defence this year, but given what I have seen so far I would look into alternatives for next season.
Ok Fuhr86. Lets see some more stats to dispute Lexicon Devil.

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02-13-2007, 01:42 PM
  #106
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I understand all that but whatever options did we have last year. Say we let Redden walk and have to sign a UFA defenseman. Kubina went for 5.0 do we go after him? Jovo was a 6.0 million dollar player so we pass on him. What other options did we have last off season?
Yep, last year's UFA prices were quite bad, I agree. I definitely wouldn't have wanted them to go after any other high-priced names. As I said, signing Redden wasn't a terrible option last year, since he had proven himself here - it was definitely the safe play, but we had to overpay IMO. If we had made a conscious decision to let Redden walk, that would have changed the entire dynamic of the Havlat trade as we could have either kept him or taken back more salary in return - so it's hard to say what the exact alternatives would be.


Based on his play so far, and the play of players like Volchenkov and Phillips, I would consider moving him in the offseason if we could get something back.

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02-13-2007, 01:49 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexicon Devil View Post
Yep, last year's UFA prices were quite bad, I agree. I definitely wouldn't have wanted them to go after any other high-priced names. As I said, signing Redden wasn't a terrible option last year, since he had proven himself here - it was definitely the safe play, but we had to overpay IMO. If we had made a conscious decision to let Redden walk, that would have changed the entire dynamic of the Havlat trade as we could have either kept him or taken back more salary in return - so it's hard to say what the exact alternatives would be.


Based on his play so far, and the play of players like Volchenkov and Phillips, I would consider moving him in the offseason if we could get something back.

Phillips and Volchenkov are good at guarding the backend, but neither have the offensive ability that Redden has to read the play. Its Redden that guard the blue line over on the opponent's end better than anyone else and keep the puck in play for the likes of Heatley, Spezza and Alfie. Without him, your defense might hold, but your offense will suffer.

My bet is that Phillips is gone this summer, he will be gunning for a raise, especially after his hard work this summer. They will keep Redden. Whether he will stay the full year or resign him, I don't know. But my guess is Redden survives another season. Upper management loves him, and with good cause I believe.

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02-13-2007, 01:59 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylph View Post
Phillips and Volchenkov are good at guarding the backend, but neither have the offensive ability that Redden has to read the play. Its Redden that guard the blue line over on the opponent's end better than anyone else and keep the puck in play for the likes of Heatley, Spezza and Alfie. Without him, your defense might hold, but your offense will suffer.

My bet is that Phillips is gone this summer, he will be gunning for a raise, especially after his hard work this summer. They will keep Redden. Whether he will stay the full year or resign him, I don't know. But my guess is Redden survives another season. Upper management loves him, and with good cause I believe.
Well. That said. If the Sens don't make it past the second round this year, this Management won't be around to make that decision.

Redden will be gone, Phillips will be sighned.

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02-13-2007, 02:09 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by billpo View Post
Phillips will be sighned.
Only if Phillips signs for 2.75 any more he becomes billpos new whipping boy.

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02-13-2007, 02:18 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by billpo View Post
Well. That said. If the Sens don't make it past the second round this year, this Management won't be around to make that decision.

Redden will be gone, Phillips will be sighned.

I seriously doubt Melnyk will get rid of Muckler. I am not sticking up for Muckler in this regard, I am just saying that these two appear to be as thick as thieves, and I don't think Melnyk will part with him that easily. Murray's job is on the line before Muckler's. I think Muckler will be around for the long run. Melnyk seems convinced that he is the guy that will bring the cup to Ottawa.

A friendly wager though Bilpo? I will bet Redden stays longer than Phillips.


Quote:
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Only if Phillips signs for 2.75 any more he becomes billpos new whipping boy.
LOL!

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02-13-2007, 03:18 PM
  #111
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I think Muckler is retiring after this season.

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02-13-2007, 03:28 PM
  #112
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I think Muckler is retiring after this season.
That would be nice.

I don't think I can take vibrating Muckler for much longer.

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Old
02-13-2007, 03:31 PM
  #113
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Hmmm- You have only 2 posts on here, both atacking Redden.

Sounds like Billpo has an ally here to replace the departed Shnak.
I know w00t from the FHL league I am in. He had a rant about Redden the other day on the message board there. I asked him if he was billpo.

I seriously thought he was.

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02-13-2007, 03:52 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Fuhr86 View Post
I know w00t from the FHL league I am in. He had a rant about Redden the other day on the message board there. I asked him if he was billpo.

I seriously thought he was.



What happened to Schnak? Did he disappear? Get coverted to Team Redden? Or Reincarnate himself as someone else?

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Old
02-13-2007, 03:53 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Sylph View Post
What happened to Schnak? Did he disappear? Get coverted to Team Redden? Or Reincarnate himself as someone else?
He is one of those guys who only comes around when the team is losing to bash them.

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02-13-2007, 04:16 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by pepty View Post
Hmmm- You have only 2 posts on here, both atacking Redden.

Sounds like Billpo has an ally here to replace the departed Shnak.
First of all, I would love for you to show me in what way I attacked Redden. If anything, I attacked my buddy Fuhr for bringing up statistics that, in my view, have no relevance. Also, this thread was created (by someone other than me) for the sole purpose of discussing Wade Redden. There wouldn't be much point to this thread if everyone had the same opinion on him, now would there? Finally, I'm not here to ally myself with anyone nor to stir things up, I'm just here to listen to everyone's $0.02 and maybe give my own once in a while.

I sure hope that among those 1,000+ posts of yours you once in a while disagree with the majority. Otherwise, you probably aren't contributing anything to this message board.

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02-13-2007, 04:58 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Lexicon Devil View Post
you can bet our defence wouldn't be Phillip/Volchenkov/Meszaros/Corvo/Preissing/Schubert
Am I the only one who thinks that is still a very good set of defencemen?

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02-13-2007, 05:00 PM
  #118
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Are you guys still discussing this... all the while important people go ungoated.

For shame.

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02-13-2007, 05:46 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by w00t View Post
First of all, I would love for you to show me in what way I attacked Redden. If anything, I attacked my buddy Fuhr for bringing up statistics that, in my view, have no relevance. Also, this thread was created (by someone other than me) for the sole purpose of discussing Wade Redden. There wouldn't be much point to this thread if everyone had the same opinion on him, now would there? Finally, I'm not here to ally myself with anyone nor to stir things up, I'm just here to listen to everyone's $0.02 and maybe give my own once in a while.

I sure hope that among those 1,000+ posts of yours you once in a while disagree with the majority. Otherwise, you probably aren't contributing anything to this message board.
I dont think you need to worry about my contributions.

Welcome to the board, and I hope that you dont get you into whatever trouble got you tossed from the Sportsnet board.

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02-13-2007, 06:47 PM
  #120
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If anything, I attacked my buddy Fuhr for bringing up statistics that, in my view, have no relevance.
Usually i would agree with this, except that in this case, you can really see why it's true when watching. I am sure you've noticed yourself in general how much smoother the team runs with Redden in the lineup. To settle things down defensively. To make the offense look better. Wade is not an elite defenseman with Pronger, Nieds, but he is a very good one that makes a noticeable diference to a team. One worth paying for due to its scarcity.

But to use the statistic that we do better with him in the lineup, while true, it feels like we dont do Wade justice when we dont articulate why. What does it say that we dont list all Wades good qualities instead of relying on a statistic with questionable causal value. You know what statisticians say, everything else being equal. But when Redden was out, it was early in the year, new roles were being found, there was different injury status for each player, different mindsets, everything else was not equal. We cant say Redden returning is solely responsible for all the change. There were differnt lines and coaching strategies too as well as motivations and confidence.

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02-13-2007, 09:30 PM
  #121
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I dont think you need to worry about my contributions.

Welcome to the board, and I hope that you dont get you into whatever trouble got you tossed from the Sportsnet board.
I wasn't implying that you didn't contribute, I just mean it takes at least two sides to have a discussion. Anyways, thanks for welcoming me, and my posts on Sportsnet were no worse than the ones I posted in this thread. But even that was too risqué for those people.

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02-14-2007, 01:45 AM
  #122
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if we were to trade Redden away in the off-season, what would you want in return?

I keep thinking it would be nice to get a good defender in return or at the least, a top first round draft pick.

I have long coveted Boucher from Dallas and Timonen from Nashville....... I would love to see Boucher in a sens uniform.

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02-14-2007, 09:21 AM
  #123
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I know w00t from the FHL league I am in. He had a rant about Redden the other day on the message board there. I asked him if he was billpo.

I seriously thought he was.

Whether you guys like it or not, there are alot of us who question the salary, and defensive abilities of Redden. But it seems more are coming out of the closet. I for one want to call them all out.

Listen people, Its ok to come out and say that Redden is overated and overpaid!!!!!


Last edited by billpo: 02-14-2007 at 09:38 AM.
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02-14-2007, 09:22 AM
  #124
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He is one of those guys who only comes around when the team is losing to bash them.
I miss Shnak.

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02-14-2007, 10:34 AM
  #125
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Am I the only one who thinks that is still a very good set of defencemen?
I agree.

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