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Old
02-09-2007, 11:17 AM
  #26
habs_24x
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heres my opinion:

untouchable: Higgins, Komisarek, Latendresse, Price. add Markov to the list but only if he wants to resign here. Gainey should get a beat from his agent to see exactly what he wants. If its reasonnable, keep him, if not, trade before deadline.



the rest could go if the right trade came along.

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02-09-2007, 11:24 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seb911 View Post
ok

the only CANT TOUCH GUYS are:

koivu, souray, marky, kovalev(yes KOVALEV), bouillon, streit, downey(the grandfather), lapierre, higgins, komisarek, bonk, lats, plecks, begin, huet, and YOUPPI!


the rest, pop out the offers!!
are you serious?

I'd say the only untouchables are..

Koivu, Higgins, Price, Markov, Komisarek, Latendresse, and atleast for now, Souray.

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Old
02-09-2007, 11:26 AM
  #28
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I thought you were writing about the movie.

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Old
02-09-2007, 11:38 AM
  #29
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After thinking about this team's slow drop down the standings, I've come to the conclusion that it may be the right time to move Souray. All of us know that Markov is more important to the team and that Souray carries the highest value of any player on our roster at this point. There is no point of keeping him on the roster as we free-fall just let him walk as a UFA at year end. Even if we do make the playoffs I'm not convinced that souray will be the difference in a cup run.

I believe that Souray alone or in a package can net you a high level offensive player. Souray's production on the PP may not be replaceable but in the offseason there will be many solid Dmen available who will garner much lower wages.

I think the time is now for BG to make some major changes. Guys that could be moved now to bring back high level players, could and should be;

Souray, Ryder, Aebischer, Rivet.

Players that are not going to be moved period

Koivu, Higgins, Komisarek, Markov (unless explicitly says he won't re-sign).

I love Souray but I think this may be the right time.

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02-09-2007, 11:48 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seb911 View Post
ok

the only CANT TOUCH GUYS are:

koivu, souray, marky, kovalev(yes KOVALEV), bouillon, streit, downey(the grandfather), lapierre, higgins, komisarek, bonk, lats, plecks, begin, huet, and YOUPPI!


the rest, pop out the offers!!

Ok, then who exactly is touchable? ryder, murray, samsonov.

Teams don't want our sewage, ryder must have some value though.

If ryder gets traded he will score 70 pts elsewhere.

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02-09-2007, 11:48 AM
  #31
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The only untouchables are Koivu (NTC) and Begin. They're the 2 halves of the Heart of CH. We're playing on half a heart as it is right now.

As for youngsters, I don't see any AHL/junior propects being moved and Latendresse is staying. Everyone else is fair game. Exception: A goaltender in Hamilton.

I doubt Streit or Plekanec will be moved, and we're unlikely to part with Komisarek, but if the right deal is there..... power to BG !

That said, we aren't sellers yet, and we have nothing to sell but the future and a couple of UFA defensemen. Proceed carefully and don't expect much.

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Old
02-09-2007, 11:54 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I agree about Lapierre, I put him in the valuable columm because he's got value, not because i'd be interested in trading him, same with Plekanec, Perezhogin.

As for Aesbicher, I put him undesirable because while I think he's got 'some' value, I don't think it's enough to actually move him.

A part of me thinks it might be time for a change in culture with the Habs, as much as I love Koivu and what he's done for this organization (and i'm not saying this cause were struggling) he remains a player paid like a PPG player, and he's not...same with Kovalev. Both of those guys earn the big bucks on the Habs, with the cap, you can't afford for them to be just ok production wise

You cross that 4 million mark you better be a 80pt guy IMO, I mean think about it...how is it possible that Jordan Staal has more goals than a guy like Kovalev or Ryder for example? It doesn't make sense. The way it's going right now, we may actually see an NHL player score more goals than anyone else on our team has points

If you look at our scoring sheet and take off the names and just look at the points, you'd think you'd be looking at an expansion team.

It doesn't make sense to me that a guy like Michael Ryder has for two consecutive years now, gotten an increase in salary and his goals and points totals are actually decreasing...what's wrong with that picture.

I was actually watching 110% last night (I know, I know) but they actually made some sense for once, you could rewind the tape from last year, 2 years ago, 5 years ago, even 10 years ago...and the issue remains the same, yet the face behind the bench is always changing. There's a nucleas of players on the Habs who's been here for several years and IMO, they may actually be hurting the development of guys like Higgins, Komisarek, Perezhogin, Plekanec, who were drafted a few years ago and all of them should be further along in their development at this point. There's some veterans on this team, who shall remain nameless as I fear being lambasted, who just haven't lived up to the faith management, several different regimes mind you, has shown in them by re-upping contracts and giving raises... it 'may' be time to head in another direction.

I mean, what's the best case scenario, the Habs pick it up get into the playoffs maybe win a round or two, then were right back in the same boat again next year and the year after?

I'm not jumping ship, it's just that i'm very disapointed with how the team and it's vets have responded the last month and a half, I was hoping...no expecting them to take the leap from a team struggling every year to make the playoffs, to a solid playoff contender (maybe not Cup contender mind you). This is arguably the most talented team we've fielded since our Cup run IMO.

I find it hard to swallow that an expansion team like the Predators for example, have progressed at a far quicker rate than the Habs have I don't know, maybe it's the piling losses just talking but i'm starting to think short to mid term now and is just making the playoffs the only goal now? It's become not good enough for me.

It's just something to think about.
Good post

I'm thinking pretty much the exact same thing.

One thing though :

Quote:
A part of me thinks it might be time for a change in culture with the Habs, as much as I love Koivu and what he's done for this organization (and i'm not saying this cause were struggling) he remains a player paid like a PPG player, and he's not.
Watch out. I was almost crucified on this board when i said the same thing after we re-signed Koivu for 4.7 per year

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Old
02-09-2007, 11:56 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
A part of me thinks it might be time for a change in culture with the Habs, as much as I love Koivu and what he's done for this organization (and i'm not saying this cause were struggling) he remains a player paid like a PPG player, and he's not...same with Kovalev. Both of those guys earn the big bucks on the Habs, with the cap, you can't afford for them to be just ok production wise
While I would agree with Kovalev, I wouldn't for Koivu. I think Koivu is paid a premium for being the face of this franchise and its captain and leader. But management failed to recognize one thing in Koivu's case, no matter the will, his body can no longer sustain the rigors of being a 20min go-to guy over a full 82 game season. This guy has taken more physical abuse in 10 years than any of us will in a lifetime. Look at him now. The tank is empty and I can hardly see how it could fill up again in a tight playoff race. Management has probably underrated this factor and did not find it urgent enough to address by way of an other quality offensive center who could take some of the load off of Koivu's back. Also, Koivu should probably not be playing on the PK. He wants to, and he's good at it, but it's easy to find bodies to sacrifice on the PK, it's harder to find point producers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
You cross that 4 million mark you better be a 80pt guy IMO, I mean think about it...how is it possible that Jordan Staal has more goals than a guy like Kovalev or Ryder for example? It doesn't make sense. The way it's going right now, we may actually see an NHL player score more goals than anyone else on our team has points

If you look at our scoring sheet and take off the names and just look at the points, you'd think you'd be looking at an expansion team.
I think we also need to remember that no matter what, this team has a defense first mentality. Koivu has been groomed in that system, the newcomers, offensive-minded or not, have to adapt, some will obviously struggle. For that reason alone, I think it's unfair to compare the stats of the Habs point getters with other high powered run and gun teams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
It doesn't make sense to me that a guy like Michael Ryder has for two consecutive years now, gotten an increase in salary and his goals and points totals are actually decreasing...what's wrong with that picture.
I'll agree to that. I thought Ryder had turned a corner at the begining of the year, being healthy, being faster and more energized, but it's not the case. I have yet to see the Ryder from his 1st pro season where he wouldn't be looking to make plays he can't, like deking a la Kovalev through 2-3 guys, and who was also looking for an open linemate once in a while. His game has become so predictable that he is next to useless 5-on-5. If on top of it he can't create anything on the PP, there's not much value left in this sniper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I was actually watching 110% last night (I know, I know) but they actually made some sense for once, you could rewind the tape from last year, 2 years ago, 5 years ago, even 10 years ago...and the issue remains the same, yet the face behind the bench is always changing. There's a nucleas of players on the Habs who's been here for several years and IMO, they may actually be hurting the development of guys like Higgins, Komisarek, Perezhogin, Plekanec, who were drafted a few years ago and all of them should be further along in their development at this point. There's some veterans on this team, who shall remain nameless as I fear being lambasted, who just haven't lived up to the faith management, several different regimes mind you, has shown in them by re-upping contracts and giving raises... it 'may' be time to head in another direction.

I mean, what's the best case scenario, the Habs pick it up get into the playoffs maybe win a round or two, then were right back in the same boat again next year and the year after?

I'm not jumping ship, it's just that i'm very disapointed with how the team and it's vets have responded the last month and a half, I was hoping...no expecting them to take the leap from a team struggling every year to make the playoffs, to a solid playoff contender (maybe not Cup contender mind you). This is arguably the most talented team we've fielded since our Cup run IMO.

I find it hard to swallow that an expansion team like the Predators for example, have progressed at a far quicker rate than the Habs have I don't know, maybe it's the piling losses just talking but i'm starting to think short to mid term now and is just making the playoffs the only goal now? It's become not good enough for me.

It's just something to think about.
I'll say easier said than done. I think in today's NHL, it is still an accomplishment to be able to be part of the playoffs. There's probably quite a few teams lower than us in the standings whos fans are still in shock as to what in the world could have happened to see their teams fall off the face of the earth. There's tremendous parity in today's NHL and I think the season can only be analysed once completed. Look at Ottawa. Their season was the exact opposite of ours. The comments we're having about our team and players today, they were having at the begining of the season. What's the result, we're at the exact same place in the standings. I think it inevitably looks grimmer than it is when the team hits a wall like every team does in a season.

My personal opinion is that I'm scared of having a guy like Kovalev on this team, a diva, a guy known to march to the beat of his own drum, to be and act careless on the ice, while we have so much impressionable youngsters looking up to him for mentoring purposes. I'm not going to use the overused "cancer" term, but I'm going to say, Kovalev on a veteran team like the Red Wings, fine, there's guys on that team to put him back in his place and very few to pick on his bad habits on and off the ice. The Habs, totally different scenario, where you have guys like Perezhogin, Plekanec, Ryder, Latendresse, etc. and soon much more to come who will all inevitably look at him for development. That is a scary thought, to me anyways.


Last edited by Munchausen: 02-09-2007 at 12:03 PM. Reason: typo
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Old
02-09-2007, 01:29 PM
  #34
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This team as it stands isn't going anywhere, so the only real untouchables should be the young promising players.

Untouchables : Price, Latendresse, Komisarek, Fisher, Grabovsky

Keepers (but not untouchables) : Higgins, Koivu, Plekanec, Perezhogin, Kostitsyn, Lapierre, Dandenault, Souray (depending on the $$$)

Wouldn't mind if they left : Bouillon, Bonk, Rivet, Ryder, Niinimaa

HAVE TO GET OUT : Samsonov, Murray, Downey, and KOVALEV (what a mistake he was ; he's a poison, a cancer... get him out asap !!)


The head scratcher : Markov. Does he want to be here ? Does he want to be anywhere ?? Is he worth the big dough he's gonna command ? If we sign him long term, can we depend on him ? Not sure about that ; but not sure we can do without him either. Tough call.

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02-09-2007, 01:40 PM
  #35
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Koivu is NOT an untouchable.

Did we ever win a second round with him as the captain ?

Maybe it's time for a change.

A lot of fans overrate him because he won his battle over cancer.
He's good but he's not an elite player.

He's a 50-60 pts player and a 15-20 goals scorer.

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02-09-2007, 01:41 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zx81 View Post
Koivu is NOT an untouchable.

Did we ever win a second round with him as the captain ?

Maybe it's time for a change.

A lot of fans overrate him because he won his battle over cancer.
He's good but he's not an elite player.

He's a 50-60 pts player and a 15-20 goals scorer.
Well we're looking desperately for a great 2nd line centerman don't we? Always said he was the perfect guy for the job. So in my view, when/if we manage somehow to get a 1st, he might become untouchable for that specific job. That will also means we will be a much much better team.

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02-09-2007, 01:43 PM
  #37
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Yeah I guess we should have expected more from Koivu playing with elite superstars in the past like the lightning quick Donald Audette, Shayne "Rocket" Corson and last but certainly not least, Chad "92 Goals" Kilger.

Koivu shows what he's made of in the international game when he's surrounded by talent; Montreal hasn't given him anyone to play with in years and that's why he puts up 60 pts.

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02-09-2007, 01:48 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Well we're looking desperately for a great 2nd line centerman don't we? Always said he was the perfect guy for the job. So in my view, when/if we manage somehow to get a 1st, he might become untouchable for that specific job. That will also means we will be a much much better team.
I agree with that but we don't have this 1st line center.
Can Gainey acquire one ?
I don't think so.
Maybe this summer but I don't think there will be many 1st line centers available by the trade deadline.

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Old
02-09-2007, 01:52 PM
  #39
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does somebody know where i can get cheap diapers for my twins lol, a warehouse or something lol,
Ask Sidney Crosby !

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02-09-2007, 01:55 PM
  #40
Le depisteur
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My untouchables:

Koivu
Higgins
Latendresse
Lapierre
Markov
Komisarek
Dandenault
Huet
A and S. Kostitsyn
Price
Chipchura
Maxwell
White
Fischer
Carle

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Old
02-09-2007, 02:13 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seb911 View Post
ok

the only CANT TOUCH GUYS are:

koivu, souray, marky, kovalev(yes KOVALEV), bouillon, streit, downey(the grandfather), lapierre, higgins, komisarek, bonk, lats, plecks, begin, huet, and YOUPPI!


the rest, pop out the offers!!
Sincerely, currently, the only untouchable I see are Latendresse and Markov... and maybe Huet. Latendresse is a fan favorite and will be a ticket seller for years; Markov is just the best D-man on this roster on both sides of the ice; Huet can do the job by the time Halak or Price take the place.

It all depends on the next two weeks. If this team can come back to winning, more untouchable will be added to my list. If things continue to go the way they are and Habs are sellers, it would be a great time to make a big roster change. I don't expect this to happen however.

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02-09-2007, 02:23 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seb911 View Post
ok

the only CANT TOUCH GUYS are:

koivu, souray, marky, kovalev(yes KOVALEV), bouillon, streit, downey(the grandfather), lapierre, higgins, komisarek, bonk, lats, plecks, begin, huet, and YOUPPI!


the rest, pop out the offers!!
Well let me run this by you,SOuray UFA and leaving town more then likely and he is making 2.4 mil Markov UFA and making 2 mil , Downey UFA making only 475 K, Bomk UFA making 2.394 mil, And Higgens,Plekanic and Komisarek are all in for huge raises next year because tgey make squat and are RFA s .Janne Ninimaa makes more then their best Dman at 2.5 mil which tells me Gainy is not near as smart as people think.This team is in serious trouble from a money standpoint.You only have 1.088 million in cap space this year.And no one is biting on Samsonov.

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02-09-2007, 02:59 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seb911 View Post
ok

the only CANT TOUCH GUYS are:

koivu, souray, marky, kovalev(yes KOVALEV), bouillon, streit, downey(the grandfather), lapierre, higgins, komisarek, bonk, lats, plecks, begin, huet, and YOUPPI!


the rest, pop out the offers!!
lol so every valuable players are Can't Touch guys?

Sorry but you can't trade Murray for Ovechkin , even in NHL 07.

The only untouchable in my opinion are Higgins and Latendresse. Other than those, if the outcome is good, I won't mind.

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Old
02-09-2007, 03:10 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Cyrrus147 View Post
lol so every valuable players are Can't Touch guys?

Sorry but you can't trade Murray for Ovechkin , even in NHL 07.

The only untouchable in my opinion are Higgins and Latendresse. Other than those, if the outcome is good, I won't mind.
You forgot Koivu.

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02-09-2007, 03:39 PM
  #45
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Why can't people understand that NOONE is untouchable if the right deal comes along....

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02-09-2007, 03:39 PM
  #46
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Yeah I guess we should have expected more from Koivu playing with elite superstars in the past like the lightning quick Donald Audette, Shayne "Rocket" Corson and last but certainly not least, Chad "92 Goals" Kilger.

Koivu shows what he's made of in the international game when he's surrounded by talent; Montreal hasn't given him anyone to play with in years and that's why he puts up 60 pts.
Maybe you're talking to me...if so, I wasn't implying we should get rid of Koivu, just saying that it 'might' be time to head in another direction...not that I want to or that i'm blaming him for the teams current play, not at all, Koivu IMO is one of the most admirable sports figures i've had the priveledge to watch in my 25yrs on this earth.

I'm just saying that for the past X amount of years the team has been built around him, maybe it's time for a new direction

I'm just offering a different train of thought...

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02-09-2007, 04:22 PM
  #47
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Why can't people understand that NOONE is untouchable if the right deal comes along....
The only offer that could make latendresse leave is if Crosby was offered to Montreal. And it will not happen.

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02-09-2007, 04:30 PM
  #48
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Untouchables at the moment: Koivu, Markov....that is all

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02-09-2007, 04:32 PM
  #49
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noone is untouchable besides Koivu and some rookies (Lats, Higgins) besides that noone is safe.

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02-09-2007, 04:33 PM
  #50
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The only offer that could make latendresse leave is if Crosby was offered to Montreal. And it will not happen.
don't forget the 2nd round pick!

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