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Raffi Torres on the block?

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Old
02-09-2007, 10:08 PM
  #1
louieleftwing
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Raffi Torres on the block?

What's up Oiler fans

I'm a Pens fan livin in Illinois and watchin this game tonite against the Hawks. I have a few questions for if you guys become sellers after all. I saw that Torres was available on some other sites and I've always liked him. He's hard-nosed and has pretty good hands. I honestly think that Crosby needs an upgrade on his wing and I think Torres would compliment him well. Basically I think the Pens need another goal-scoring winger in the mold of a Shane Doan from Phoenix or a Ryan Smyth to play with Crosby (I'm not sure these guys will be available so I'm starting small here).

The Pens could also use a right shooting defensive d-man. I saw that thread blasting Jason Smith but he would be such an upgrade for the Pens D and would look better in the East.

Since I love my one stop shopping and all I was curious what it would take to get Torres and Smith to the Pens. I assume a deal could start with Welch (20 points, +10 in 22 AHL games and an all-star) and go from there.

Also, Lupul is obviously a struggling sniper that would look nice finishing Crosby's passes. I'd like someone a little more physical, but what is Lupul's availability?

Cool, and good luck to the Oilers finishin strong and makin the playoffs after all.

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02-09-2007, 10:11 PM
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Torres + Smith for Malkin.

Take it or leave it

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Old
02-09-2007, 10:11 PM
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well

without sounding too sarcastic

worst kept secret on the oilers is thef act Raffi has been getting not shopped--but either teams are calling for him or the oilers are trying to see what they could get for him

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Old
02-09-2007, 10:17 PM
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I wouldn't mind seeing a trade between the Oilers and Pens. I think it would be a good deal for both sides to see

Torres and Smith for/ Christensen and Welch and a 2nd rounder.


Last edited by propel94: 02-09-2007 at 10:19 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old
02-09-2007, 10:33 PM
  #5
s7ark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vbet View Post
Torres + Smith for Malkin.

Take it or leave it
Wait, wait. They can sub in Staal instead.

When you are asking for our top D-man and captain who is signed cheap through next year plus a young legit top 6 with top 3 potential, both of whom are playoff tested and play a physical game, the price is going to be high.

Staal would be something we would look at. Or Whitney+

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Old
02-09-2007, 10:43 PM
  #6
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Stoll+Smith+Torres
Staal+Letang+Malone+2nd

We would never do such a rebuild move, but damn, would that be awesome:


Last edited by 21Gator*: 02-09-2007 at 10:50 PM.
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Old
02-09-2007, 10:44 PM
  #7
louieleftwing
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I appreciate the quick responses. Obviously guys like Staal and Malkin and Whitney are the young core so the Pens won't jump into any deal for those guys and if that means no deal goes down then that's fine for Pens fans. Seeing how patient Shero is I actually don't think the Pens make any deals.

But that's no fun.

I think propel is on track for real though. Christensen is a guy that is our best shootout option (irrelevant in playoffs) and has the best wrister/release on the team. I assume that's why he was asked for, but I am in the distinct minority of Pens fans in even considering a deal involving Christensen.

So, I would counter with Malone, Welch and a 2nd for Torres and Smith. I know you have to give something to get something so I'm not gonna offer bums. At the same time 99% of Pens fans wouldn't do this deal so I can't really imagine that or more being exchanged.

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Old
02-09-2007, 10:49 PM
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Torres isn't going to be dealt unless it's a solid d-man we're gonna get in return. Honestly, I think any deal we make will look something like this (of course excluding any picks sent either way)

Torres, defenseman

for

defenseman, forward

where

Torres>Forward

and

Defenseman>Oilers Defenseman

It's basically a deal in which a team would lose strong defensive depth in return for strong offensive depth. I don't know if there's a team in this league that's willing to do a deal like that except Nashville, Chicago, Boston, and perhaps the Devils.

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Old
02-09-2007, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by louieleftwing View Post
I appreciate the quick responses. Obviously guys like Staal and Malkin and Whitney are the young core so the Pens won't jump into any deal for those guys and if that means no deal goes down then that's fine for Pens fans. Seeing how patient Shero is I actually don't think the Pens make any deals.

But that's no fun.

I think propel is on track for real though. Christensen is a guy that is our best shootout option (irrelevant in playoffs) and has the best wrister/release on the team. I assume that's why he was asked for, but I am in the distinct minority of Pens fans in even considering a deal involving Christensen.

So, I would counter with Malone, Welch and a 2nd for Torres and Smith. I know you have to give something to get something so I'm not gonna offer bums. At the same time 99% of Pens fans wouldn't do this deal so I can't really imagine that or more being exchanged.
The problem is there is plenty of incentive for you guys to make that trade as you get the two best players and get to go on a cup run. We get screwed. Torres > Malone and Smith > Welch and a 2nd.

Maybe you guys aren't ready to go on a run, it might be best just to let your team grow together. It might not yet be your year.

Because we aren't a charity, we aren't trying to help you win a cup. We are trying to help our team. So unless there is incentive for us to move one of our young talented fwds, why wouldn't we, just like you, let the team grow together.

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Old
02-09-2007, 10:52 PM
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No Welch, we have Greene. Letang!

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Old
02-09-2007, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 21Gator View Post
No Welch, we have Greene. Letang!
No Letang, we have Chorney. Whitney!

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Old
02-09-2007, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
No Letang, we have Chorney. Whitney!
Oh, I agree, but I don't think Shero would give up two young studs on the roster before a playoff run. And if we're getting Welch or Letang, I would want Letang.

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Old
02-09-2007, 11:06 PM
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If you want a dman like Smith you will have to overpay for him. He is not a number one dman, but if you pair him with a good number one dman he makes a great partner or he is a solid 3 and 4 dman.

The Oilers have been looking for a true number one dman and overall the market demands that you pay too much for a dman, so I couldn't see KLowe just giving up Jason Smith for nothing at all. If you want the guy you have to give up something quite valuable to get the guy.


Torres as stated is one that isn't really on the blocks, but when teams talk to the Oilers about trades they all ask about Torres. That is why his name shows up all the time in trade rumours, because so many teams are interested in the guy, not because the Oilers want to move him.

Torres is streaky and he scores in bunches or he doesn't score at all. He can also be either playing hard and physical or not during a season a different points. If he ever develops more consistency he will easily become top 6 and may move up to a top 3 player if he develops more. To give up that much potential in a player the Oilers would have to need that player coming back as a valuable piece to the future.

If you want to tempt the Oilers for Torres or Smith look at giving up a future number one dman that is top in the league or a player that will be top 6 or better as a forward. Anything less and the Oilers would not be that interested

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Old
02-09-2007, 11:06 PM
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With the way hes been playing lately it sure seems like hes playing for a spot in the roster.

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Old
02-09-2007, 11:09 PM
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jcoldwell
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To Pittsburgh:
Raffi Torres
Jason Smith

To Edmonton:
Ryan Whitney
Michel Ouellet

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Old
02-09-2007, 11:53 PM
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I suspect that Torres would fit in very nicely with the Pens, maybe even on a line with Crosby. Good shot, a nice physical element, and he's even developing a bit (a tiny bit) of a defensive conscience.

But with Pittsburgh's nice young corps, and their strong recent play, they're probably better off filling out their roster with prospects, picks, and cap space. And I'd have to think that Torres, even if he's traded (which I hope he's not) commands a pretty solid roster player. Pittsburgh is better off inquiring about Sykora.

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02-10-2007, 01:25 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcoldwell View Post
To Pittsburgh:
Raffi Torres
Jason Smith

To Edmonton:
Ryan Whitney
Michel Ouellet
DONE!

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Old
02-10-2007, 02:31 AM
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Do the Penguins still own the rights to Rita?

Torres for Rita?

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Old
02-10-2007, 04:44 AM
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Torres is a horrible passer and streaky player. He is great physically when he feels like it. He could be a great player if he developed more puck sense and creativity. His value to the Oilers is he can knock people out of the game and has a hard shot.

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Old
02-10-2007, 09:16 AM
  #20
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The question really is whether other teams see Torres as ~20-25g 2nd/3rd liner or 25-30g 1st/2nd liner.

This year has dropped Torres' stock quite a lot and you really shouldn't sell at this point if you don't have to.

ISn't Torres a RFA in the summer? KLowe should use this season as a leverage "against" him in contract negotiations and sign him to a nice 3-4y deal at affordable price (i.e. not give him stupid money like to Pisani or Horcoff) which would immediately raise his value.

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Old
02-10-2007, 10:04 AM
  #21
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If you're making a cup run, you don't want to mess with your active rostar too much, if we're trading Torres and Smith, obvisouly we're not making hte playoffs... With that in mind I think Welch is much better all aroudn than Letang.
Torres, Smith for either Welch or Letang plus Christensen, a swap of first round picks (you get Ana we get yours) and a either another prospect or mid pick 3 or 4th round. We could always toss in one of our UFA dmen as a rental depth player for theplayoffs (Tjarnqvist - if he ever gets healthy or Hejda - but we'd like to re-sign himinthe summer).

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Old
02-10-2007, 11:11 AM
  #22
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I haven't watched much of Pittsburgh this year but of the few games I have seen Ryan Whitney has really stood out to me. I doubt he'd be available but he would be a great fit here.

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Old
02-10-2007, 11:13 AM
  #23
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I reckon with the Smyth comment, If The Oilers are out of the playoff hunt, Smyth probably will pull a Weight, not only because he deserves a cup ring, but also because he helps us fairly significantly by adding depth to our Prospect pool, if he could Garner a 1st + a decent prospect, going into a deep Draft with 3 first rounders would be awesome!

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Old
02-10-2007, 04:43 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by louieleftwing View Post
I think propel is on track for real though. Christensen is a guy that is our best shootout option (irrelevant in playoffs) and has the best wrister/release on the team. I assume that's why he was asked for, but I am in the distinct minority of Pens fans in even considering a deal involving Christensen.
Think how badly you want to keep Christensen (an edm boy fom the looks of it) and triple that. That's how much I'd personally like to keep our hardest hitting and offensively able winger.

FWIW, you can disregard the talk of Torres being a horrible passer. That's one of those ridiculous myths that become popular among the great unwashed masses and then require a great deal of proof to dislodge.

IMO the Oilers should be sellers right now. Aside from Smyth the majority of our best players are youngish and it doesn't look like we're ever going to break the cycle of finishing either just in or just out of the playoffs and drafting in the middle of the pack. So I hope we do trade some players away, but that they're older than Torres/Stoll/Lupul etc.

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Old
02-10-2007, 05:02 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oi'll say! View Post
Think how badly you want to keep Christensen (an edm boy fom the looks of it) and triple that. That's how much I'd personally like to keep our hardest hitting and offensively able winger.

FWIW, you can disregard the talk of Torres being a horrible passer. That's one of those ridiculous myths that become popular among the great unwashed masses and then require a great deal of proof to dislodge.
Well, I guess I'm part of the unwashed masses. I'd be very interested to see your proof that Torres is a good passer.

There's plenty of indirect evidence as well as mounds of anecdotal evidence to suggest that he's not a good passer. The indirect evidence includes:
  • His complete and utter ineptitude on the PP. Both in terms of PP points per hour and in terms of PP goals for per hour.
  • His frighteningly high giveaways per hour TOI. I don't like the stat, but when you don't carry the puck (Torres doesn't), you don't have a disproportionate number of long passes (dmen suffer from this) and you still manage to rack these up, there might be something up. Heck, last year he had a higher rate than Hemsky all the while not handling the puck nearly as often.

I like Torres and I think he's developing as a player, but I really think you're barking up the wrong tree defending his passing skills. They just aren't there and I'm not so sure that's a necessity anyway because he's still a pretty damn effective ES player without them.

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