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Islanders willing to deal Hamrlik?

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Old
12-09-2003, 04:48 AM
  #51
IWD
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Darth and the Islander fans are right. They're going to get "full" value for their players. Nevermind the upcoming CBA expiration and Hamrlik's struggles to earn his hefty contract. Such is the world of EA's NHL 2004.

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Old
12-09-2003, 05:05 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nillson2Berge2Weinie
Struggles to earn hefty contract, I would think Hamrlik is earning his 3.6 million dollar salary just as efficiently as Nolen is earning his annual 6 million dollar salary. NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEEEEXT....
Like Darth, your argument is severely flawed.

Nolan is definitely earning his keep, but if you've actually seen him play then you'd know that. But let's play along. Let's say for the sake of argument that he wasn't earning his keep. What does Nolan have to do with Hamrlik? I'd love to hear your take on this. We ARE discussing Hamrlik, afterall. So you obviously brought up Nolan to help your argument. Oh wait, you have no argument? My point exactly.

I notice you conveniently ignore mention of Hamrlik's inability to earn his hefty contract (which, by the way is definitely the case) only to turn around and bring up a player who has absolutely nothing to do with the argument.

Yes, "next" indeed.

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Old
12-09-2003, 05:19 AM
  #53
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Btw... Nillson2Berge2Weinie... there's an error in your name...

Nillson... ?
Berge... Bergenheim.
Weinie... Weinhandl.

It's Nilsson.

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Old
12-09-2003, 05:20 AM
  #54
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Steen may or may not every play in the NHL. He is nowhere near as highly ranked a prospect as Leaf fans make him out to be.
According to whom?

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12-09-2003, 05:23 AM
  #55
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So far on this thread, Stajan & Steen have been both over-rated and under rated, like wise with Hamrlik.

Darth, to a degree is correct, in that once bidding comes in, it'll take the likes of both of these prospects to solidify a deal (notice I said "the likes" and not necessarily these players) to get Hammer. I'd love to see him on the Leafs defense core, but personally I think the Leafs will be outbid by other teams, if for anything, to keep him off the Leafs team.

On that note, although the value isn't that far off (either way), as I've said before, the Leafs have put themselves in a position where they can't afford to trade young forward prospects. Maybe a young D-man or two, but they definitely "shouldn't" move the likes of Stajan or Steen. That being said, JFJ still wants to make an impression on the team, and has yet to show whether he's like Quinn (ie. move youth for vets) or a youth movement type of GM.

I've mentioned before in a similar debate, that I feel the Leafs should wait until closer to the deadline before making any deals when prices are cheaper and fewer teams are bidding, unless of course Milbury for example wants to give Hamrlik away. But with the noose constantly tightening around his neck, I can't see Mike making any questionable trades, no matter how mad he is.

Just my 2 cents.

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Old
12-09-2003, 07:01 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey24
Don't bother Pinto.I think you could argue till your blue in the face with this guy and no matter how much of a valid point you make it will never be enough for him and besides I would be glad to keep Steen * The player who will not make the NHL because he is not good enough and is over-rated because he's a Leaf prospect, or so claimed by some*

Sigh.

Where did I say that Steen would never make the NHL? Why does it always have to be such extremes with you guys? If somebody doens't agree that Steen is some superstar young prospect who is at the top of his class in Sweden you automatically take the leap to the suggestion that Steen is a bust who will never play in the NHL.

Steen is a nice young prospect. He has a chance to be a very good player. Just like Nilsson - a talented young player. Neither are elite prospects and neither have the sort of lofty trade value that has been suggested here.

I thought MINOS and DAR both have very reasonable takes on the situation. I agree, in particularly, with Minos' perspective on Stajan.

I never said it made sense for the Leafs to trade players like Steen and Stajan. I think Toronto has a soild vet lineup and they should work their youngsters in over time. I also think it is a bad move to trade youngsters for vets with the impending CBA negotiations.

However, my point is is what it would take. The other players you guys keep talking about (Antropov, Berg, Tucker, et al.) aren't going to get anything done. I do believe that the Isles would move Peca and/or Hamrlik and I do believe the Leafs have the sort of youngster the Isles would want. I just don't think the teams are going to get together and I think the other packages you guys have been suggesting are unrealistic.

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Old
12-09-2003, 07:08 AM
  #57
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Darth, how many times have you seen Steen and Nilsson play?

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Old
12-09-2003, 07:13 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go pierre hedin
Darth, how many times have you seen Steen and Nilsson play?

How many times have any of you seen them play? I would say that 90% of the posters on this list are doing exactly what I am doing, reading central scouting, redline report, and other related sources.

And, for those of you who have seen them play, how long have your been a professional scout (instead of just some fan watching a guy on TV)? Should I trust your take more than Redline Report and other time tested source?

Face it, dude, you have no more information than me. The best we can all do is rely on reports from scouts and the media.

Exactly what is your arguement anyway? Where is it that you think Steen ranks? In your opionion, is he a top 10 prospect? A top 25 prospect? Where is your information coming from?

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12-09-2003, 07:19 AM
  #59
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I totally agree with you, but just because a guy's not a top 25 prospect doesn't necessarely mean he's not a top talent. You're taking those "Top 10/25 Prospects" lists too seriously, as well as where a player was drafted.

If you're expecting a top 25 prospect for Hamrlik, you'll definately be disappointed.

Steen's the closest thing to a sure thing this team has, he's a star in a mans league.

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12-09-2003, 07:20 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueAndWhite
I'm not going to jump into this whole Hamrlik-Steen-Stajan-Cola debate, because it's been done to death. HOWEVER, some of your points on the Leaf prospects are waaay off base/

You keep harping on Steen's draft position. He was drafted 24th overall in the first round.

1.) Since when does that qualify as "so late" ?
2.) If by some chance, it does qualify as "so late" - look at the last few drafts prior to Steen's draft year.

In 2000: Steve Ott, Jeff Taffe, Justin Williams, Brian Sutherby, David Hale, Anton Volchenkov, Alex Frolov were all drafted in the #20 to #30 overall slot. All are in the NHL playing. Only Taffe and Hale are still yet to become regulars (though they are well on their way THIS season)

In 1999: Martin Havlat, Steve McCarthy, Nick Boynton were all drafted in the #20 to #30 overall slot.

I am by no means stating that Steen is a sure thing, but your opinion of him is misinformed as a whole (Steen was drafted in 2002 - not last year like you thought - re: italics in your quote above), or based on faulty logic.

IMO, that seems to be your take on quite a few of the Leafs prospects. You are VERY quick to dismiss the Leafs young players. Granted, there are many Leaf fans of this board who exaggerate the abilities of Stajan, Steen, etc - however your posts make you seem at the opposite spectrum.
You characterize Stajan as nothing more than a decent third liner. Oddly enough as a 19 year old defensively resposible rookie, he is on pace for 32 points, averaging 10 minutes a game and change. Stajan is not a blue-chipper by any means, but at 19 he already LOOKS to be a decent third liner. If we go be your assumption, Stajan has peaked, and his development is done.

Fair enough. I think that things tend to get extreme in the heat of these threads. I'm not saying that Steen is not a good or even a very good prospect. I do think that his abilties (and market value) are getting groslly exaggerated here.

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Old
12-09-2003, 07:23 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go pierre hedin
I totally agree with you, but just because a guy's not a top 25 prospect doesn't necessarely mean he's not a top talent. You're taking those "Top 10/25 Prospects" lists too seriously, as well as where a player was drafted.

If you're expecting a top 25 prospect for Hamrlik, you'll definately be disappointed.

Steen's the closest thing to a sure thing this team has, he's a star in a mans league.

Basically, I agree with all of your points. I do think Steen is a good young talent and don't think we're going to get more than that for Hamrlik. What I do not agree with, however, is the original comment that started this thread (Steen, Stajan > Hamrlik). I think Steen and Stajan are young players that most teams would really like to have and I think they'd be fair return for a soild #2 dman.

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Old
12-09-2003, 07:33 AM
  #62
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What I don't agree with is that the Isles are going to get Steen for Hamrlik.

It's not going to happen because Ferguson's going to be around for a while, he's in no hurry to trade the Leafs top prospect for a #2 defenseman who's going to be a free agent.

You may get a top prospect from another team, but from everything we've seen about Ferguson, he's not looking to move any top young players this year.

I highly doubt ends up in Toronto.

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Old
12-09-2003, 07:51 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go pierre hedin
What I don't agree with is that the Isles are going to get Steen for Hamrlik.

It's not going to happen because Ferguson's going to be around for a while, he's in no hurry to trade the Leafs top prospect for a #2 defenseman who's going to be a free agent.

You may get a top prospect from another team, but from everything we've seen about Ferguson, he's not looking to move any top young players this year.

I highly doubt ends up in Toronto.

We are all repeating ourselves, but let's do it again!

I didn't say that the Isles would get Steen for Hamrlik (or at least I didn't mean that). I said THAT IS WHAT IT WOULD TAKE. I personally think the Leafs are gong to do exactly what most of you have said. I think they'll hold onto their youngsters and try and bring a vet in at the deadline. But, basically, if they decide to pursue Hamrlik and/or Peca the price is going to be guys like Steen and Stajan - not Antropov, not Berg, and not Tucker.

As for the Isles, I don't know what they'll do. I'd like to think they'll hold onto both Hamrlik and Peca, but I the $ issues seem apparent. So, I think they will most likely keep Peca (who I don't think is tradeable) and then deal Hamrlik is they can get some mid-level prospects in return. If a team steps up with a package built around decent prospects for Peca or Parrish, I think one of those guys could be gone as well.

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Old
12-09-2003, 07:54 AM
  #64
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These rumours are starting to make more sense to me. The Islanders need to cut payroll and I don't think they'll accomplish everything with
just one trade.


1) Trade expensive d-man (Hamrlik) for cheap young forward (Svitov)

2) Trade expensive forward (Parrish) for cheap young d-man (Vishnevski)

Payroll is cut, depth is intact, future looks better................

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Old
12-09-2003, 08:25 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by projexns
These rumours are starting to make more sense to me. The Islanders need to cut payroll and I don't think they'll accomplish everything with
just one trade.


1) Trade expensive d-man (Hamrlik) for cheap young forward (Svitov)

2) Trade expensive forward (Parrish) for cheap young d-man (Vishnevski)

Payroll is cut, depth is intact, future looks better................

That would be nice, but I personally don't think it will go down that easy. I don't think Tampa is interested in paying Hamrlik, and (from what I am told) Vishnevski is playing better than Anaheim. I suspect the outcome may be a lot less positive for the Isles.

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Old
12-09-2003, 08:28 AM
  #66
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Islanders fans are drastically over-rating the market for Hamrlik. There are two, maybe three teams that would be seriously interested in him (Toronto, Tampa Bay, *maybe* Vancouver) and no-one is going to offer up Svitov or Stajan or Cooke. Hell, I think it's iffy as to whether Milbury will be able to wrangle anything more than a 1st and change for Roman. That's what Schneider netted Los Angeles, and I don't think Hamrlik is even that valuable.

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12-09-2003, 08:36 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nillson2Berge2Weinie
Wang allows Milbury to trade Roman Hamrlik for a late first and a guarantee you the Coliseum will have about three thousand less fannies in the seats.
Brilliant deduction. Teams that are looking to reduce payroll tend to draw less fans. Did it take both your brain cells to come up with this conclusion? What'd you think, the Isles would dump Hamrlik (and maybe more) and put more ***** in seats?

Quote:
I don't know how you can justify Roman Hamrlik having the same trade clout as Schneider
a) Schneider is better
b) Schneider is cheaper
c) More teams were interested in Schneider

Thus...

Quote:
but then again I think I can. Your 20 and not very bright...


Keep telling yourself Hamrlik will get more than Schneider.

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12-09-2003, 08:56 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit

Keep telling yourself Hamrlik will get more than Schneider.
Dude- Hammer is 5 years younger than Schneider and will DEFINATELY bring back more than a late #1 pick--

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12-09-2003, 09:02 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disles1
Dude- Hammer is 5 years younger than Schneider and will DEFINATELY bring back more than a late #1 pick--
Yeah, but their contract situations are similar so it doesn't necessarily mean one is a more long-term solution than the other. Both Hamrlik and Schneider were a little over a year away from UFA-dom.

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12-09-2003, 09:10 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
Islanders fans are drastically over-rating the market for Hamrlik. There are two, maybe three teams that would be seriously interested in him (Toronto, Tampa Bay, *maybe* Vancouver) and no-one is going to offer up Svitov or Stajan or Cooke. Hell, I think it's iffy as to whether Milbury will be able to wrangle anything more than a 1st and change for Roman. That's what Schneider netted Los Angeles, and I don't think Hamrlik is even that valuable.

No I'd say that opposing fans are drastically under-rating the market for Hamrlik.


1. press in Chicago and NY report the hawks pushing for a Hamrlik+ Parrish deal.
2.TB and the Leafs are also interested.
3.The Wings who lost Hatcher for 4-6 months have scouted Hamrlik.

The Caps have said Goncher is not availble.
Aside from Hamrlik,what d-men are available?

Poti?Delmore?Vish?

Younger and cheaper,but not nearly as good defensively as Hamrlik.

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12-09-2003, 09:12 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
Yeah, but their contract situations are similar so it doesn't necessarily mean one is a more long-term solution than the other. Both Hamrlik and Schneider were a little over a year away from UFA-dom.



and Newsday's said Hamrlik's been pushing for an extension since training camp.

It looks like he doesn't want to become a ufa in 2005 with a salary cap in place.

any team trading for him, can talk to his rep and get an extension done before the trade is completed.

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12-09-2003, 09:15 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit

a) Schneider is better
b) Schneider is cheaper
c) More teams were interested in Schneider

.
there are at least 3,possibly 4 teams the press says are interested in Hamrlik:Leafs,TB,Hawks and possibly the Wings.


Which teams were interested in Schneider?

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12-09-2003, 09:16 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
Yeah, but their contract situations are similar so it doesn't necessarily mean one is a more long-term solution than the other. Both Hamrlik and Schneider were a little over a year away from UFA-dom.
Look Hammer WILL get us more than a late#1--a good top tier prospect ala Sitov (sp?) from Tb. Hammer and Schneider are similar players--Id take Hammer in a second- if you like Schneider fine. You said yesterday that MM would be lucky to get anything of value back--depleting an already barren system of assets. I totally disagree--in fact I don't think the isles will trade Peca and if they do trade Hammer we would get something to help the team now--like Satan & Mckee for Hammer and Parrish--and if Wang wants to solely cut payroll which I doubt we will get a top prospect.

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12-09-2003, 09:39 AM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disles1
Look Hammer WILL get us more than a late#1--a good top tier prospect ala Sitov (sp?) from Tb. Hammer and Schneider are similar players--Id take Hammer in a second- if you like Schneider fine. You said yesterday that MM would be lucky to get anything of value back--depleting an already barren system of assets. I totally disagree--in fact I don't think the isles will trade Peca and if they do trade Hammer we would get something to help the team now--like Satan & Mckee for Hammer and Parrish--and if Wang wants to solely cut payroll which I doubt we will get a top prospect.

How many cups has Hamer won?

How many cups has Schneider won?

game.set.match

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Old
12-09-2003, 09:44 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
Islanders fans are drastically over-rating the market for Hamrlik. There are two, maybe three teams that would be seriously interested in him (Toronto, Tampa Bay, *maybe* Vancouver) and no-one is going to offer up Svitov or Stajan or Cooke. Hell, I think it's iffy as to whether Milbury will be able to wrangle anything more than a 1st and change for Roman. That's what Schneider netted Los Angeles, and I don't think Hamrlik is even that valuable.
VCR is not getting Hamrlik so we can drop that idea right here. I also don't see how Cooke relates to this thread, but there is little doubt in my mind that Burke would be thrilled to death to deal Cooke if he could get Hamrlik. Talking about dramatically overating players, Cooke is a very good third liner - nothing more.

That said, the above poster is probably not that far from being correct. There simply aren't that many teams that can afford to add 3.6 million at this point.

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