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Nedved, Stortini, The don't take no for an answer principle.

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Old
02-12-2007, 10:49 AM
  #1
dawgbone
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Nedved, Stortini, The don't take no for an answer principle.

Just a few things on my mind that I couldn't really all fit into another thread.

Nedved has been better than I hoped. He still sucks on the PP, and he's lost his offensive game, but at least he's not getting scored on right now, which is about what you want out of your 4th line.

I was ragging on him big time when he was paired with Hemsky and Sykora and getting the bird minutes and basically doing nothing with them. Now that he's on the 4th line, he's at the very least not getting scored on, which is honestly more than I thought we'd get out of him. That being said, with a healthy Stoll, I think Nedved gets the boot out of the lineup.

Stortini, god love him, is getting a bullseye. Refs are going to start sending him to the box everytime he gets invovled with something. Sometimes you need to get that shot in there, sometimes you just need to stand there and take one. Stortini needs to learn that he doesn't always have to be the tough guy and make his presence felt physically after the whistle. Sometimes you just go in there and give them the stare, or beak them a little bit without getting your licks in. His penalty last night is a prime example of that. The whistle blows, and he skates in 20 feet and gets hogtied. Both guys should have realistically gotten penalties, but Stortini clearly was the guy who tried to get something going. It's important to not backdown, but you don't always have to be the guy who comes in swinging.

This basically leads to my next point... Do we now see what happens when you don't take no for an answer? For years Oiler fans have complained that Laraque would never just teach a guy a lesson (whether said player wanted to or not). Are we starting to now see where this gets you?

Between the Vancouver gong-show, and several roughing penalties yesterday, the Oilers are starting to look like a team that you can beat by getting physical with them and get them to retaliate on you. This style of reaction doesn't intimidate the other team, it just encourages them to go at you more because they know they can get a PP out of it.

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02-12-2007, 10:55 AM
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It's a double edged sword. I could see him making a guy pay for a cheap shot, either by taking the body or dropping the gloves. But he will have to learn what are "good" physical penalties, and what are stupid physical penalties. He's young, and IMO teh main thing is that for the most part he knows his job, and he is willing to do it at anytime against anyone.

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02-12-2007, 11:11 AM
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Re: Strotini

It's a fine line once he starts taking the bad penalties should they become a trend but a few here and there are easily offset imo by the sense that the Oilers as whole seem to have grown by two inches and ten pounds per player since he got here.

As for his penalty yesterday, I found it to be a real headscratcher. It was as if he was penalized for intent and not because of what he did. If the ref's are only going to make one call there (should have been both or none imo) then it should have gone to the Thrasher who tackled Stortini from the side. Sure the intent to get something going was Stortini's but the only guy that actually got a lick in was the Thrasher and a ref can't be giving penalties merely for intent.

9 times out of ten I don't think he is the only guy going to the box in that situation.

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02-12-2007, 11:19 AM
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I'll stick with the possitives because the negatives are obvious...

I couldn't be more pleased with Nedved's play on the 4th line and im happy he's adjusting his play to fit in... although, easy to say because i didn't expect much from him.... could have been far worse, he could have insisted he was to talented to hit, backcheck and be defencively responcible....

Stortini.. aside from the obvious, what impresses me most is something a little different.. Stortini eagerness to learn from the veterans... I didn't attend the Chicago game do to the flu, but in a way it was a blessing.. Watched the game on TV and i lost count on how many times i seen the Camera shot on the bench with guys like Horcoff giving instructions, advice, whatnot to Stortini and him sitting there eagerly taking it all in... The fact that the vets are so eagerly adjusting his play i think says alot too, says they fully expect him to stay and want him to stay on the team...

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02-12-2007, 11:23 AM
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The thing I like about Stortini is that I always seem to notice him on the ice. I was surprised he only played like 6 minutes or so against Chicago.

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02-12-2007, 11:29 AM
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The thing I like about Stortini is that I always seem to notice him on the ice. I was surprised he only played like 6 minutes or so against Chicago.
This is exactly the reason why Stortini is where he is, and Jacques is where he is.

Zack got more accomplished in 1 game with 4th line minutes than JFJ did in 19 games...JFJ should be ashamed of how much Zack's shown him up becaus IMO JFJ's got superior talent and size.

Where's his desire?

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02-12-2007, 11:43 AM
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What people need to remind themselves about Stortini is that, despite his rough and discheveled look, he's actually a smart guy (academic player of the year in junior). He's a fast learner and readily takes instruction. He plays with emotion, but he can control it. That's why he wore the C on an OHL team at 17 years of age. I'm convinced he will not be a liability when it comes to unnecessary penalties - having said that, refs are usually pretty aggressive with young bucks like Storts who stir the pot, so he will have to be a little more careful.

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02-12-2007, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam View Post
What people need to remind themselves about Stortini is that, despite his rough and discheveled look, he's actually a smart guy (academic player of the year in junior). He's a fast learner and readily takes instruction. He plays with emotion, but he can control it. That's why he wore the C on an OHL team at 17 years of age. I'm convinced he will not be a liability when it comes to unnecessary penalties - having said that, refs are usually pretty aggressive with young bucks like Storts who stir the pot, so he will have to be a little more careful.
I agree completely. Right now he's finding his way, and that's the one criticism I have about his play right now. It's definitely one he has to learn, and one that isn't going to come overnight.

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02-12-2007, 11:51 AM
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I think if MacT didn't want him to pick fights after the whistle, he would tell him not to. But we all know he brought him up to get in people's faces.

I'm sure he's had one or two games where I was blown away by how collected he was and not being silly after the whistle.

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02-12-2007, 12:00 PM
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Stortini did draw a penalty in the Thrashers game as well.

All in all, I think Stortini is more valuable on the roster than not.. and has played great as far as I'm concerned. Amazing work ethic, lets see if he can keep that up through the course of an entire season.. or at least the remainder of this season.


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02-12-2007, 12:12 PM
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Actually, it's funny how two people can see things so differently. I think you are looking a bit too far ahead and trying to predict what is going to happen.

I see in Stortini a kid who has managed to be very physical and intimidating, without hurting his team by taking penalties. The one he got last night was just unlucky, as he was trying to make sure that the 2nd Thrasher going into the little scrum had company. I do agree he will have to dial it down just a touch and pick the spots in the game where he needs to energize the team - you can't be on all the time cause you'll hurt yourself, and sometimes that kind of play can spur on the other team too. I think he'll learn quickly and has found himself a permanent spot on the 4th line.

As for Nedved, it's been slow, but I see his offense coming a bit more every game. He's been getting chances and he is actually starting to generate something. I'm pretty happy with his overall play, he's been doing things out there that he's never done before just to stay in the lineup, and who knows? If he gets a little confidence, he could chip in a little offensively. I think his shifts are a little long sometimes, but I think he's catching up to the speed of the Oilers game, which is a good thing. It's obvious to all he's not the 03 Nedved, but he's a better option on that line right now than Winchester or Thoreson. And, when the playoffs roll around, his veteran experience I think will be pretty valuable.

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02-12-2007, 12:23 PM
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It's obvious to all he's not the 03 Nedved, but he's a better option on that line right now than Winchester or Thoreson. And, when the playoffs roll around, his veteran experience I think will be pretty valuable.
I'd agree with that.

It should be obvious though that the whole 'Czech-mates' thing has come and gone. Nedved's lost too much to make much of an impact as a top 6 forward anymore.

As a 4th liner though, I'd take him over Winchester and even Thoresen anyday.

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02-12-2007, 12:28 PM
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Nedved losing his wrister = 4th line player..

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02-12-2007, 12:35 PM
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The other thing I like about Stortini is that the Oilers, as a team, seem to get more involved emotionally in the game with him on the team. The Oilers have really missed that hardworking, hitting physical presence that Ethan Moreau brought to each every game. Torres doesn't have that level of consistency.

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02-12-2007, 12:40 PM
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I'll take Stortini's penalties here and there, he plays with that wild edge we have had missing for years. People are keeping their heads up when he is on the ice, you can really see it. Love the kid.

I agree on Nedved he is at least finding other ways to be effective and playing a smarter defensive game, though he has dished a number of no look passes to opposition lately. He is willing to get physically involved which is how he needs to play as his shot is not what it used to be and the mind is there for passing but the physical side has deteriorated a bit. Still I like him on the 4th line like that. He was pretty effective.

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02-12-2007, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam View Post
What people need to remind themselves about Stortini is that, despite his rough and discheveled look, he's actually a smart guy (academic player of the year in junior). He's a fast learner and readily takes instruction. He plays with emotion, but he can control it. That's why he wore the C on an OHL team at 17 years of age. I'm convinced he will not be a liability when it comes to unnecessary penalties - having said that, refs are usually pretty aggressive with young bucks like Storts who stir the pot, so he will have to be a little more careful.
To illustrate my point a little, this is in today's Journal. Stortini gets it.
__________________________________________________

Maybe if Atlanta winger Eric Boulton had the fancy footwork of, say, Ryan Smyth around the crease, he might have avoided Oilers goalie Dwayne Roloson. Then again, maybe he was just trying to rattle some pots 'n' pans. He's a fighter, not a scorer.

"I got tripped up on the first one and on the second I was driving to the net and ran out of room," said Boulton, who looked, for most of the night, like he'd be dropping the mitts with Zack Stortini.

"I asked him early on and he didn't want to ... just a chippy game all around," said Boulton.

Stortini shrugged off the invitation. "The team was doing well and had lots of momentum and the most important thing is the two points," he said.

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02-12-2007, 01:39 PM
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Actually, it's funny how two people can see things so differently. I think you are looking a bit too far ahead and trying to predict what is going to happen.

I see in Stortini a kid who has managed to be very physical and intimidating, without hurting his team by taking penalties. The one he got last night was just unlucky, as he was trying to make sure that the 2nd Thrasher going into the little scrum had company. I do agree he will have to dial it down just a touch and pick the spots in the game where he needs to energize the team - you can't be on all the time cause you'll hurt yourself, and sometimes that kind of play can spur on the other team too. I think he'll learn quickly and has found himself a permanent spot on the 4th line.

As for Nedved, it's been slow, but I see his offense coming a bit more every game. He's been getting chances and he is actually starting to generate something. I'm pretty happy with his overall play, he's been doing things out there that he's never done before just to stay in the lineup, and who knows? If he gets a little confidence, he could chip in a little offensively. I think his shifts are a little long sometimes, but I think he's catching up to the speed of the Oilers game, which is a good thing. It's obvious to all he's not the 03 Nedved, but he's a better option on that line right now than Winchester or Thoreson. And, when the playoffs roll around, his veteran experience I think will be pretty valuable.
Nedved will come along, he has no confidence but what I noticed last night was a sense of overall responsibility. He made a bad pass to the point and was the first one back to our zone to retrieve the puck where the defenseman should have beat him there but Nedved dug in. I would resign him next year for the right price. He seems to have good chemistry with Torres and I wonder if we shouldn't put Nedved on the wing with Raffi and Stoli. I have come to the conclusion Pisani is expendable (most expendable on the team) with Peterson and MAP coming a long nicely and they both have the benefits of being younger and cheaper.

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02-12-2007, 01:40 PM
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Nedved losing his wrister = 4th line player without supermodel wife..
there...fixed...

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02-12-2007, 03:24 PM
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Nedved has certainly been a surprise. Who would have expected Nedved to come in and be a defensively sound, veteran presence on the third or fourth line. In addition, he's been playing more physically than half of the team. Unfortunately, its just as surprising to see how much his skills have deteriorated. Either age has caught up to him or he's lost all confidence, or perhaps even both. He has had several prime scoring opportunities in the slot or on breakaways and he's ended up looking like he's never scored a goal in the NHL, let alone 45 in one season.

I love Stortini and it has become clear that he was exactly what the team was missing. But, there are two things that he needs to learn:

1. Zack, for the love of god learn some subtlety. Keep the emotion and energy, but skating across the ice to get an opposition player while looking like one of those psychotic Mad Max extras is going to draw all of the refs unwanted attention towards you. Its whats landing you in the penalty box without having done anything. Subtlety Zack.

2. We don't want you fighting the other team's tough guy unless they've done something to our team. And even then, sometimes its better to go after their skill players than the tough guy. For example, in a game like the one we just played against Atlanta, would it be better to crush Kozlov into the boards and then say to him "Merry X-mas courtesy of Andy Sutton" while he writhes on the ice like a little girly-man or get into a 20 second wrestling match with Sutton cause he just nailed one of our guys? I would choose the former.

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02-12-2007, 04:35 PM
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A while ago I was trumpeting Jamal Mayers as the answer for the Oilers toughness problem. Now it seems that Stortini is the answer. I love the way he plays his role. The guy will probably end up being just as good a hockey player as Laraque was. It's too bad MacT didn't have the confidence to put him in back in November when he was first called up.

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02-12-2007, 08:34 PM
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I love The Flying Stortini.

This guy brings energy and grit which we have needed desperately. I can't wait to see him in the playoffs.

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02-12-2007, 10:43 PM
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Just a few things on my mind that I couldn't really all fit into another thread.

Nedved has been better than I hoped. He still sucks on the PP, and he's lost his offensive game, but at least he's not getting scored on right now, which is about what you want out of your 4th line.

I was ragging on him big time when he was paired with Hemsky and Sykora and getting the bird minutes and basically doing nothing with them. Now that he's on the 4th line, he's at the very least not getting scored on, which is honestly more than I thought we'd get out of him. That being said, with a healthy Stoll, I think Nedved gets the boot out of the lineup.
On this point I agree Nedved's offensive game as we knew it is gone. And I may lose our bet, but at least you stepped up and admitted, more or less, that he is not finished. He is probably done in the NHl after this year, nonetheless, he is valu full at $611K.

The one thing I would like to see, if Petr is willing to pay the price, is him in front of the net on the second PP unit. His biggest offensive problem at the moment is his skating, not his hands. And our PP has a rough time getting those tap ins in front of the net. Nedved was johnny on the spot in his first game and I'd like to see him tried this way (rather than QB).Maybe have Lupul run the second unit. And if there is a chance to double shift Hemsky, on the PP, I would throw that in at the right time too.

Anyway

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02-13-2007, 02:26 AM
  #23
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Nedved

93's working like a dog out there and no he's not getting scored on and that's the main thing for a bottom sixer. But he looks like a guy who never had any offensive upside though he did have two chances to score vs Chi so I thought we'd see a little more flash vs Atl. We didn't though and it looks like the guy's lost more than a step offensively and he has zero confidence in his shot.

He's playing out the string and the extra hustle defensively and on the forecheck reminds me of the old saying of how a power hitter's walk rates go up as he gets older because he's looking for something in his game to stick out and his swing's no longer what it once was.

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02-13-2007, 02:33 AM
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I would still rather see Nedved with Lupul and Sykora than Petersen with them, Nedved has shown he is as defensively responsable, and Petersen can get his minutes on the PP. I think Nedved should still be able to get some points, he shows flashes, but no finish. If the Oilers made the playoffs, I could see him being the type of veteran player who comes up big.

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02-13-2007, 08:49 AM
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I would still rather see Nedved with Lupul and Sykora than Petersen with them, Nedved has shown he is as defensively responsable, and Petersen can get his minutes on the PP. I think Nedved should still be able to get some points, he shows flashes, but no finish. If the Oilers made the playoffs, I could see him being the type of veteran player who comes up big.

Lupul and Sykora are desperately in need of a passer not named Hemsky and so far Nedved been far more adept in passing to the opposition.. besides, Nedved even in his prime (lack of a better word) was a shooter as well....

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