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Old
02-12-2007, 11:56 AM
  #1
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Koivu

I like Saku Koivu as a player because he plays with heart and usually turns in a solid effort every game. Well.....lately Koivu has been nowhere to be seen. He hasn't scored in ages, he is not playing good hockey and is not creating scoring chances for his linemates. The team seems to be continuing their downward slide and Koivu is not doing anything to turn it around. IMO....I think the Habs should trade Koivu for a good returning player(s), give the C to Souray, re-sign him and make a run for the playoffs. At least Souray is standing up and saying something to try and rally the troops and he is leading the team by his play on the ice. He is the only player that consistantly gets points.
It just seems that Koivu has too much of an impact on the team, whether it is good or bad. When he came back from cancer, he lead the team in the playoffs, his energy was great and the players thrived from Koivu's momentum. Last year he was playing good and then he got hit in the eye and the team gave up and lost to Carolina as if there was no way on earth to beat them. I don't like the fact that the team is totally dependant on Koivu. It seems that Koivu's way rules and if players don't buy into that, they struggle.
I guess I don't know what the problem is with the team lately, but I do know that some kind of shakeup is in order if we are going to make the playoffs. I am just suggesting a possible shakeup.....flame away if you insist, but I would like you're opinions as well.

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02-12-2007, 12:57 PM
  #2
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Originally Posted by Puckhead58 View Post
I like Saku Koivu as a player because he plays with heart and usually turns in a solid effort every game. Well.....lately Koivu has been nowhere to be seen. He hasn't scored in ages, he is not playing good hockey and is not creating scoring chances for his linemates. The team seems to be continuing their downward slide and Koivu is not doing anything to turn it around. IMO....I think the Habs should trade Koivu for a good returning player(s), give the C to Souray, re-sign him and make a run for the playoffs. At least Souray is standing up and saying something to try and rally the troops and he is leading the team by his play on the ice. He is the only player that consistantly gets points.
It just seems that Koivu has too much of an impact on the team, whether it is good or bad. When he came back from cancer, he lead the team in the playoffs, his energy was great and the players thrived from Koivu's momentum. Last year he was playing good and then he got hit in the eye and the team gave up and lost to Carolina as if there was no way on earth to beat them. I don't like the fact that the team is totally dependant on Koivu. It seems that Koivu's way rules and if players don't buy into that, they struggle.
I guess I don't know what the problem is with the team lately, but I do know that some kind of shakeup is in order if we are going to make the playoffs. I am just suggesting a possible shakeup.....flame away if you insist, but I would like you're opinions as well.
I think you fell down and bumped your head, causing you a severe case of Amnesia. Now do yourself (and all of us) a favor and go lie down and rest your weary head. We'll wake you once we make the playoffs

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02-12-2007, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
I think you fell down and bumped your head, causing you a severe case of Amnesia. Now do yourself (and all of us) a favor and go lie down and rest your weary head. We'll wake you once we make the playoffs

Nice IGNORANT comment!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess you're too IGNORANT to think that moving Koivu would even be a possibility or a good idea???? I don't think its that much of a stretch IMO. I'm just thinking that maybe part of the problem is Koivu, since getting rid of Theodore and Ribeiro didn't make much of a change for us.

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02-12-2007, 01:18 PM
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Alexei Yashvalev
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Can we at least miss the playoffs before we blow up the team?

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02-12-2007, 01:20 PM
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the problem is we dont have a genuine consistent first line center, koivu is a great second line C.

That is the missing piece to the habs puzzle.

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02-12-2007, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Alexei Yashvalev View Post
Can we at least miss the playoffs before we blow up the team?
Wise words.

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02-12-2007, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by moshedw View Post
the problem is we dont have a genuine consistent first line center, koivu is a great second line C.

That is the missing piece to the habs puzzle.

EXACTLY
Thats part of the point I am trying to make. Koivu should not be on the teams first line....he's not that good. He is a great second line centermen and thats about it.
Therefore....if we need to ship Koivu to get the first line center that will carry the team, then go for it.....I would rather see a Forsberg type player on the top line and have Pleks, Bonk and Lapierre as the other centers.

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02-12-2007, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by moshedw View Post
the problem is we dont have a genuine consistent first line center, koivu is a great second line C.
Koivu, god bless him, is about average as second line centers go. Realistically, you can expect about 55 or 60 points from him if (and it's a big "if") he plays 75+ games.

Even if we get in and then go out in the first round, I would not be opposed to letting him finish his career elsewhere, and turn the page.

Needless to say, I don't think the original post is premature. We can talk about anything we want, when we want, so long as it's habs-related and does not constitute a slur against the Russians, Chechens, Tartars, French, Quebecois, Swiss, the Jews, Muslims or the Irish. Koivu may be the heart of the team, but the team has had an irregular heartbeat for too long.

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02-12-2007, 01:34 PM
  #9
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Originally Posted by Puckhead58 View Post
Nice IGNORANT comment!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess you're too IGNORANT to think that moving Koivu would even be a possibility or a good idea???? I don't think its that much of a stretch IMO. I'm just thinking that maybe part of the problem is Koivu, since getting rid of Theodore and Ribeiro didn't make much of a change for us.

I'm actually pretty intelligent, so no it wasn't an ignorant comment, a sarcastic one maybe.

I didn't see Koivu being a problem last year in the playoffs. Once he went down the team crumbled like a deck of cards. Was Koivu part of that problem too? I also didn't see him being a problem through the first 40 gms of the season.

I also can't believe that you would put Koivu in the same category as Theodore and Ribiero, you obviously don't pay too much attention to what goes on with the Habs??

I just think that from now on you should think before you post something. Or if not, expect someone to flame you and take it like a man

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02-12-2007, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by JV View Post
Koivu, god bless him, is about average as second line centers go. Realistically, you can expect about 55 or 60 points from him if (and it's a big "if") he plays 75+ games.

Even if we get in and then go out in the first round, I would not be opposed to letting him finish his career elsewhere, and turn the page.

Needless to say, I don't think the original post is premature. We can talk about anything we want, when we want, so long as it's habs-related and does not constitute a slur against the Russians, Chechens, Tartars, French, Quebecois, Swiss, the Jews, Muslims or the Irish. Koivu may be the heart of the team, but the team has had an irregular heartbeat for too long.
Thank you....I agree that maybe IT IS time to get rid of Koivu. Nothing against the little guy, he has been nothing but a great players for the Habs for the most part and he has shown that he has a big heart, I just think there there are better ways to spend $4 million dollars a season. We could have a guy like a Savard, Briere or Spezza for $5 million and they are all huge contributers to their respective teams.
I think its time for a change in scenery!

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02-12-2007, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Puckhead58 View Post
EXACTLY
Thats part of the point I am trying to make. Koivu should not be on the teams first line....he's not that good. He is a great second line centermen and thats about it.
Therefore....if we need to ship Koivu to get the first line center that will carry the team, then go for it.....I would rather see a Forsberg type player on the top line and have Pleks, Bonk and Lapierre as the other centers.
So you would trade koivu for forsberg who is a UFA?! No way,
I would rather keep koivu for the second line and package plekanec for
whatever we can get suitable for the first line role.
Koivu is too important to the team to give up for a ufa for one playoff push.

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02-12-2007, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckhead58 View Post
EXACTLY
Thats part of the point I am trying to make. Koivu should not be on the teams first line....he's not that good. He is a great second line centermen and thats about it.
Therefore....if we need to ship Koivu to get the first line center that will carry the team, then go for it.....I would rather see a Forsberg type player on the top line and have Pleks, Bonk and Lapierre as the other centers.
Nice way to back peddle out of that one Puckhead58, first you say that he's a problem and should be traded, then you say that he's a GREAT 2nd line center. I think what you should do is sit down and figure out what it is you want to post, before just jumping in here and sprouting off ****.

Oh and by the way, this great 2nd line center as you call Koivu, did a pretty good job in my opinion being a 1st line center in the first half of the season.

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02-12-2007, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
Nice way to back peddle out of that one Puckhead58, first you say that he's a problem and should be traded, then you say that he's a GREAT 2nd line center. I think what you should do is sit down and figure out what it is you want to post, before just jumping in here and sprouting off ****.

Oh and by the way, this great 2nd line center as you call Koivu, did a pretty good job in my opinion being a 1st line center in the first half of the season.
Consistently is the key for a first line center, it happens every year that koivu goes into these massive slumps of 20+ games, and it effects the entire teams as a whole.

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02-12-2007, 01:42 PM
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Needless to say, I don't think the original post is premature. We can talk about anything we want, when we want, so long as it's habs-related and does not constitute a slur against the Russians, Chechens, Tartars, French, Quebecois, Swiss, the Jews, Muslims or the Irish. Koivu may be the heart of the team, but the team has had an irregular heartbeat for too long.[/QUOTE]

I never said anyone could not talk about anything on this post. As for slur's, nothing like that was actually said, so I don't know why this point is even brought up.

The team does have an irregular heartbeat at the moment, but I don't think it's time for a Heart Transplant.

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02-12-2007, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by moshedw View Post
the problem is we dont have a genuine consistent first line center, koivu is a great second line C.

That is the missing piece to the habs puzzle.
Exactly, thats the problem with the team, not only Koivu. Everybody has to play 110% to win a game because they are not a their place.

Koivu is a great second line center. Ryder, Higgins, Lantendresse are good 2nd line wingers. Thats why everybody is in a slump right now, they all played all over their head so they are simply exausted now.


Kovalev could play on the first line if we give him the chance and give him a real 1st center, like Forsberg, he could be extremely dangerous. Like i said before, people still think that Kovy is the kind of player that make his teammate better but you guys are wrong. Since when did he made his linemate good? He IS the player that play better when he play with good linemate. Same thing for Samsonov but Gainey gave them so much money that gives them responsabilities that they never had.

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02-12-2007, 01:45 PM
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Consistently is the key for a first line center, it happens every year that koivu goes into these massive slumps of 20+ games, and it effects the entire teams as a whole.
A first line center does not control the atmosphere of the whole team. This is a team game, not tennis. If Koivu or anyone else on the team goes into a slump, the other players should bound together and pick up the slack. It's not one player IMO that is slumping, 3/4 of the team are slumping.

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02-12-2007, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
Nice way to back peddle out of that one Puckhead58, first you say that he's a problem and should be traded, then you say that he's a GREAT 2nd line center. I think what you should do is sit down and figure out what it is you want to post, before just jumping in here and sprouting off ****.

Oh and by the way, this great 2nd line center as you call Koivu, did a pretty good job in my opinion being a 1st line center in the first half of the season.

Well just because I said he was a GREAT 2nd line center doesn't mean we have to keep him. I was just agreeing that Koivu isn't a GREAT 1st line center and that he would be better as a 2nd line center. Plus I didn't think that keeping Koivu and trading someone else would get us the 1st line center that we need. Use your head a little bit....do you think Pleks is gonna fetch us a first line centermen???? NOPE!!!

Oh....and I don't need to sit down and figure out what I want to post, because I posted what I wanted to post!!

Oh yeah.....if Saku done such a great job ALL BY HIMSELF on the 1st line for the first half of the season, then how come he disappeared....shouldn't a good 1st line centermen AND the team captain be around to lead his team into the playoffs??? I think he should be.......hence.....the whole reason I started this thread in the first place.

Give your head a good snap on the corner of your desk before you start ranting and raving!!!!!!!!!!!!

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02-12-2007, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by moshedw View Post
Consistently is the key for a first line center, it happens every year that koivu goes into these massive slumps of 20+ games, and it effects the entire teams as a whole.
So "consistently" is your point? Then I'm sure you'd rather have Thornton right? Let's have a look at Koivu vs Thornton come playoff time and see which one we'd prefer.

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02-12-2007, 01:55 PM
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I'm actually pretty intelligent, so no it wasn't an ignorant comment, a sarcastic one maybe.

I didn't see Koivu being a problem last year in the playoffs. Once he went down the team crumbled like a deck of cards. Was Koivu part of that problem too? I also didn't see him being a problem through the first 40 gms of the season.

I also can't believe that you would put Koivu in the same category as Theodore and Ribiero, you obviously don't pay too much attention to what goes on with the Habs??
Koivu was invisible during the last playoffs ( in the 2-3 games he played ). The team went down because Carolina put Ward in the net . The Canes were dominated by the Habs , but ward stopped everything .

For sure The Habs were better with Saku in the team , but to say that we went down because he was not there is a myth . I don't know why , but everytime the things are going well , or that one of his linemate is scoring a lot , it's always because of Saku , but when the things are going down , it's never his fault .

The Saku's fans have to open their eyes . Saku would be a very good player if the NHL would play 30 - 40 games per season , but it isn't the reality of the NHL .

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02-12-2007, 01:57 PM
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So "consistently" is your point? Then I'm sure you'd rather have Thornton right? Let's have a look at Koivu vs Thornton come playoff time and see which one we'd prefer.
We have to make the playoffs first.

Does anybody think they are getting close to their money's worth from Koivu?

What we need is a Shanahan, Sakic, Brind'amour type

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02-12-2007, 01:59 PM
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I'm actually pretty intelligent, so no it wasn't an ignorant comment, a sarcastic one maybe.

I didn't see Koivu being a problem last year in the playoffs. Once he went down the team crumbled like a deck of cards. Was Koivu part of that problem too? I also didn't see him being a problem through the first 40 gms of the season.

I also can't believe that you would put Koivu in the same category as Theodore and Ribiero, you obviously don't pay too much attention to what goes on with the Habs??

I just think that from now on you should think before you post something. Or if not, expect someone to flame you and take it like a man

Well all I know is that there was a feud between Ribs and Saku....and I'm just saying that we thought we got rid of the problem by getting rid of Theo and Ribs, but maybe Saku was just as much a part of that problem. Who really knows!!!!

I'm a big boy and I can take a little flaming when I make a post, but you didn't have to be ignorant with your reply...

"I think you fell down and bumped your head, causing you a severe case of Amnesia. Now do yourself (and all of us) a favor and go lie down and rest your weary head. We'll wake you once we make the playoffs"

A simple agree or disagree followed by your reason would have been suffice, but you insisted on making me seem like I don't have a clue.....well sorry....but I do have a clue and I can see as plain as day that there are issues that need to be addressed in regards with the Montreal Canadiens and I am simply weighing all the possible options and possibilities!!!!!

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02-12-2007, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Puckhead58 View Post
I like Saku Koivu as a player because he plays with heart and usually turns in a solid effort every game. Well.....lately Koivu has been nowhere to be seen. He hasn't scored in ages, he is not playing good hockey and is not creating scoring chances for his linemates. The team seems to be continuing their downward slide and Koivu is not doing anything to turn it around. IMO....I think the Habs should trade Koivu for a good returning player(s), give the C to Souray, re-sign him and make a run for the playoffs. At least Souray is standing up and saying something to try and rally the troops and he is leading the team by his play on the ice. He is the only player that consistantly gets points.
It just seems that Koivu has too much of an impact on the team, whether it is good or bad. When he came back from cancer, he lead the team in the playoffs, his energy was great and the players thrived from Koivu's momentum. Last year he was playing good and then he got hit in the eye and the team gave up and lost to Carolina as if there was no way on earth to beat them. I don't like the fact that the team is totally dependant on Koivu. It seems that Koivu's way rules and if players don't buy into that, they struggle.
I guess I don't know what the problem is with the team lately, but I do know that some kind of shakeup is in order if we are going to make the playoffs. I am just suggesting a possible shakeup.....flame away if you insist, but I would like you're opinions as well.

Koivu can't do it by himself. It's the same problem they've had for years, not enough support. Exchanging Koivu for someone else won't solve the problem.

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02-12-2007, 02:05 PM
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We have to make the playoffs first.

Does anybody think they are getting close to their money's worth from Koivu?

What we need is a Shanahan, Sakic, Brind'amour type
HELL NO.....we pay him $4.75 million a year!!!! Spezza, Briere, Savard are making $5 million a year, they are putting up the points and essentially carrying their team by either putting the puck in the net or setting up their line mates to score. Can we say the same about Saku Koivu???....well that is the BIG question......my answer is no!

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02-12-2007, 02:06 PM
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The rats are abandonning the ship as it begins to sink.....

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02-12-2007, 02:08 PM
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The reality is that they paid Koivu more than the market may have paid him beause hewas worth it to Mtl. When the contract was signed, they already knew that in terms of stamina, he hits 'the wall' at some point during the year. This isn't the first time. I don't know if anyone heard Randy Tieman [CTV] on the Team 990 last week. Tieman's a cancer survivor and he spoke of the effect of chemotherapy on stamina. I don't know if this is a permanenet thing, or valid, but it makes you wonder.

Still, they wanted him, he said yes, he also got A NTC clause.

Keep in mind that when we talk of getting this guy or that guy, when the $ was offered, Koivu said yes. Elias didn't,Shanahan didn't who knows who else ?

I would be curious to know how many players with 4M+ salaries would be claimed on waivers. Dealing names, with years left on their deals is just about impossible. Maybe not impossible,but difficult.

I want Koivu to play his entire career here. I think the team needs to have a forward who is clearly better than him in the lineup to be a cup contender. I don't see the point in calling him a 2nd liner or whatever desgnation , the team needs at least one top end player. You need to add, not replace.

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