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Old
02-12-2007, 06:59 PM
  #26
s7ark
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Kinda surprised about Thor to be honest. He didn't really do much down there in the games I saw. Last game he was worse then both JFJ and Schremp.

I'm happy for him, just surprised at the choice. Well, I guess he can PK a bit where JFJ can't.

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02-12-2007, 07:02 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
Concussions are almost impossible to predict with ANY certainty even if you are a doctor that is why so many players in every sport and every team have had multiple concussions.

So are all those teams culpible for sending players early? Perhaps they should all retire after the first concussion because that is the ONLY way to predict that he wasn't going to get injured now or get injured again. Let me help with this one. I just love conspiracy theories!

The doctors cleared him to play, perhaps they should lose their license, perhaps their should be an investigation into all teams in all sports whenever a player gets another concussion.

Wow, its a shock that a player that has had concussions before suffered another one. but it's all the Oilers fault!. They should have kept him out of the lineup FOREVER because that is the only way to predict that he will not have another concussion when he gets whacked into the boards.

In fact all players in the NHL that have ever had a concussion should instantly retire!

Some of my buddies went to a presentation given by an Oiler's medical doc the other day (he's one of our course coordinators) and he said that the Oilers showed him a graph after his last contract negotiation showing that they had the least man games lost to injury over the previous few years. That may suggest that the Oilers (their training and medical staff) may be more biased than most to having players come back early (although I guess you could argue it hasn't burned them).


Last edited by The Rage: 02-12-2007 at 07:43 PM. Reason: edit potentially sensitive information
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Old
02-12-2007, 07:02 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
So any player that EVER reinjures himself must have came back too early? There can be no other explanation?
If he reinjures himself in his first game back?

I'd say that's pretty likely.

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02-12-2007, 07:05 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Q038 View Post
I know this topic well... not surprised at all Stoll wanted to play, even if it was to early..

8 concussions in 6 years... .. even just the first can last months without any major symptoms that can fool the player into thinking he's perfectly fine... It wasn't till the 6th did i realize the recovery times were extending longer and longer after each one.

6 months into the 8th and final concusion and i was still having some serious short term memory problems did i realize i really need to stop playing hockey.. gave my equipment away and never touched the ice again.. took a good year and a 1/2 before i stopped walking into rooms and having no idea why i did.. I still hear from friends and family about how my personality was so weird during the 7th and 8th recoverys....

thats another thing,, after each one , the next is that much easier to get... and thats the catch 22.. if the NHL teams kept players out of the lineup till the player is Completely and fully recovered, they would be out for a heck of alot longer then they are now.. weeks would be months
Eric??

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Old
02-12-2007, 07:06 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by OYLer View Post
The biggest problem with the Oilers under Craig MacTavish has been poor player utilization. Coach MacT overplays whichever of the veterans who are running hot and underplays those less experinced players who make even the smallest of system mistakes.
Hejda (vetran who was shoved aside earlier) and Smid (rookie who probably should be in the AHL) disprove your point. Veterans (especially those under 35) win, while rookies lose. MacT favouring veterans (which is an arguable fact in the first place) is the only reasonable strategy to win in the present. The future is another story, though, as youngsters to playing time to become good veterans.


Last edited by The Rage: 02-12-2007 at 07:36 PM.
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Old
02-12-2007, 07:07 PM
  #31
hockeyaddict101
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Originally Posted by PDO View Post
If he reinjures himself in his first game back?

I'd say that's pretty likely.
So if another player in another sport ANYWHERE comes back and reinjures himself in the first game back it MUST be because they came back too soon?

There can never be any other explanation?

Sorry that is very flimsy evidence.

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02-12-2007, 07:08 PM
  #32
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It's hard to judge as a fan who was in the wrong, Stoll, the doctors, the coaches whoever else. It's probably a combination of all of them. After Stoll got hit the second time when he talked about maybe coming back a little too early he sounded kind of like it was his decision to start playing again. It probably has a lot more to do with the fact that he got hit in the exact same spot twice. His first was a result of getting his face smashed into the boards, since his nose was broken that was probably the problem area and then he got hit right on the nose again, I would imagine that was what did it. Not to mention in the game before he got hurt again he took a nasty hit in order to feed Raffi out front for his second goal of the night, probably didn't help. I'm sure he'll be a lot more careful this time around.

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02-12-2007, 07:09 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
Kinda surprised about Thor to be honest. He didn't really do much down there in the games I saw. Last game he was worse then both JFJ and Schremp.

I'm happy for him, just surprised at the choice. Well, I guess he can PK a bit where JFJ can't.
I think Thor is being called back because of his play all season, not because he's been playing well recently. I think that's a more reasonable strategy than simply throwing in whatever rookie is on a two game hot streak.

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02-12-2007, 07:11 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by oil_fan85 View Post
It's hard to judge as a fan who was in the wrong, Stoll, the doctors, the coaches whoever else. It's probably a combination of all of them. After Stoll got hit the second time when he talked about maybe coming back a little too early he sounded kind of like it was his decision to start playing again. It probably has a lot more to do with the fact that he got hit in the exact same spot twice. His first was a result of getting his face smashed into the boards, since his nose was broken that was probably the problem area and then he got hit right on the nose again, I would imagine that was what did it. Not to mention in the game before he got hurt again he took a nasty hit in order to feed Raffi out front for his second goal of the night, probably didn't help. I'm sure he'll be a lot more careful this time around.
No one was in the wrong.

The doctors, Stoll and the team all thought he was ready. They followed known medical protocol on a minor concussion and then he got whacked not once but twice.

That's the risk you take in sports.

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Old
02-12-2007, 07:30 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by OYLer View Post
The biggest problem with the Oilers under Craig MacTavish has been poor player utilization. Coach MacT overplays whichever of the veterans who are running hot and underplays those less experinced players who make even the smallest of system mistakes.

Overplayed and tired players get hurt by putting themselves into situation as the result of fatigue. You either play your 3rd & 4th line guys or replace them with guys that can get the job done. If we are budgeting under the CAP and can't even ice consistent 3rd line players why aren't we spending more money to secure forwards who can play?

Plus the Oilers systems are just too complicated and do not allow for smart creative heads-up play especially in the defensive zone. Instead of always being a half step behind, always chasing on defensive cloverage, players should have the switch option where they can drill another teammate's check who is the puck carrier.


Dislodging the puck and causing turnovers is the object of defensive zone play, not just maintaining the inside position and having good stick position. Those skills help but big brutal jarring hits on other teams skill players is what wins games. Putting a Sedin or a Naslund out of a game even if on that one play a goal is scored against is still a great trade-off. Plus it keeps the opposition playing much more tentative offensively.

Setting up cycle hits is how to effectively neutralize other teams skilled attack. But you need to do it with focused 4th & 3rd line players whose absence won't compromise our own skilled attack, should they get hurt. Plus having depth means having confidence in who will replace from the press box and the minors.

This garbage of not tinkering with a winning line-up, and players playing hurt is just that -- refuse and a refuge in self-delusion. Players who have small nagging injuries should be rested and allowed to heal. If a coach has no faith in team depth, either get rid of the coach or the GM, because someone ain't doing their job.
Mac T plays vets because vets win. Last years club was the most vet-laden team the Oil have iced in a decade and look at the result.

The amount of rookie games you have played in a year will invariably effect your win totals. Having two rookies on the blueline compiled witha forward rookie corp that hasn't performed has been a big problem for this club.

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Old
02-12-2007, 07:35 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
No one was in the wrong.

The doctors, Stoll and the team all thought he was ready. They followed known medical protocol on a minor concussion and then he got whacked not once but twice.

That's the risk you take in sports.
Medical personel aren't robots. The grades you mentioned are subjective qualities. Even lab tests don't have 100% specificity and sensitivity and must be used in conjuction with clinical signs. Medical personel CAN have biases, and I know of at least one team that pressured their medical staff towards a certain position. I don't know if the Oilers made the wrong decision here, and really none of us would know unless we had a chance to look at Stoll's medical chart. What we do know is that the Oilers have had a surprisingly small number of man games lost in the past, and that MAY suggest a higher proportion of players playing with injury (it may also suggest a highly skilled medical staff).

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02-12-2007, 08:10 PM
  #37
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Bad news all the way around IMO. Winchester should've gotten a chance. The only good news is that it means more playing time for Schremp, but at the moment that is of no help to the Oilers team.

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02-12-2007, 11:01 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDO View Post
Wasn't aware he had one in Junior - ****** news.

I've suffered 3 myself, so I'm aware they become a lot more frequent after the first one, but I was very leery with how quickly Stoll came back from the first concussion, and when he gets one in the same game that he played, it just reeks that he wasn't as at his new 100% quite yet and that played a large roll in the injury.

Which is a crying shame anyway you put it.

HA101, maybe I'm being too harsh on this team, but how many times have seen a player on this team come back for one or two games before going back on the self for weeks more with the exact same injury that they reaggravated?

I think we all remember York on the point all too well.
This is getting ridiculous. Stoll got a concussion vs Anaheim on January 18. He missed the Calgary game on January 19. Then there was the all-star break. He didn't play for a week because of missing the Calgary game and the all-star break. He returned vs SJ, January 26 and got his second concussion vs Vancouver on February 1.

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Old
02-13-2007, 12:13 PM
  #39
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Icing a larger, tougher team (size & strength) means adapting systems play...

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Originally Posted by HotToddy View Post
Mac T plays vets because vets win. Last years club was the most vet-laden team the Oil have iced in a decade and look at the result.

The amount of rookie games you have played in a year will invariably effect your win totals. Having two rookies on the blueline compiled witha forward rookie corp that hasn't performed has been a big problem for this club.
I'll not disagree with you HT, and will note that the Oilers have had more than their share of injury problems. However, decisions were made to play smaller forwards and this left the Copper & Blue vulnerable to other teams taking liberties and running our skilled players and physically punishing our few key veteran defensemen. Fatigue and exhaustion makes cowards of us all and when big body players like Brad Winchester don't play enough minutes, they can never get comfortable and play to form.

Expecting big body players to conform and excel to systems better suited for midsize and/or smaller quicker skaters plays away from bigger players strengths, especially when they are benched and sat-out at every error they make. Sure smaller, more agile guys like Thoresen and Petersen can get themselves into good position defensively but they are often ineffectual because they get pushed around and they are unable to answer the bell when push comes to shove.

The same treatment was afforded to too many former Oilers players that went on to become solid NHL performers (i.e. Josh Green, Georges Laraque, Chad Kilger)

Big Georges Stats this year:
GP G A PTS +/- PIM SOG
52 5 15 20 4 52 31

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Old
02-13-2007, 12:45 PM
  #40
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Does anyone else get the impression that MacT would rather fit a weeble wobble with skates and put it on Reasoner's wing, rather than dress Brad Winchester?

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Old
02-13-2007, 01:25 PM
  #41
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Does anyone else get the impression that MacT would rather fit a weeble wobble with skates and put it on Reasoner's wing, rather than dress Brad Winchester?
Probably because the weeble wobble would at least hit the guy and shoot more than Winchester.

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02-13-2007, 01:27 PM
  #42
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Probably because the weeble wobble would at least hit the guy and shoot more than Winchester.
Heh...can't say I disagree with that.

It reminds me of the days when MacT would rather play Scott Ferguson on the 4th line instead of dressing Jani Rita.

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02-13-2007, 01:29 PM
  #43
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Heh...can't say I disagree with that.

It reminds me of the days when MacT would rather play Scott Ferguson on the 4th line instead of dressing Jani Rita.
haha, too true! That really says something about mact's belief in Rita eh?

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02-13-2007, 01:30 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Digger12 View Post
Heh...can't say I disagree with that.

It reminds me of the days when MacT would rather play Scott Ferguson on the 4th line instead of dressing Jani Rita.
haha, too true! That really says something about mact's belief in Rita eh? if Winchester wasn't on a one-way contract and could be put through waivers, he'd probably be playing in the minors already.

Right now I'm totally in the belief that the Oilers are working at trading Winchester for something. He's stuck in no-man's land right now - they can't send him down to play more games without going through waivers (right?). And he's not consistent enough to play on a regular basis.

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Old
02-13-2007, 07:11 PM
  #45
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Great coaches find a way to get the best of of each and every player...

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haha, too true! That really says something about mact's belief in Rita eh? if Winchester wasn't on a one-way contract and could be put through waivers, he'd probably be playing in the minors already.

Right now I'm totally in the belief that the Oilers are working at trading Winchester for something. He's stuck in no-man's land right now - they can't send him down to play more games without going through waivers (right?). And he's not consistent enough to play on a regular basis.
Personally, I think it is MacT and Co. who have an inflexibility problem. They consistently, try to play players away from their strengths. Consider how well Chimera and Cleary are doing under different coaching.

I was never a Cleary fan but clearly he was not handle well when in E-Town. And exactly why does Jason C. have a hate-on for MacT. I'm wondering if MacT's doghouse is inescapable once a player is banished there?

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