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why the instigator penalty should be removed

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02-13-2007, 10:58 PM
  #1
Morris Wanchuk
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why the instigator penalty should be removed

I remember when the instigator penalty was put in place. The league called it a way to protect star players. They did not want to see fighting being used as strategy, as a way to get a star player out for 5mins at the end of the game. In those situations the penalty should be assesed. However in most cases that is not what happens.

What the instigator penalty has turned into is a way for cheap shot artists to hide behind their visors and not have to stick up for their actions. Players need to be able to police themselves. Before pay back for a cheap shot was being faught then and there. Now you see revenge through more cheap shots and dangerous hits. In many ways this is worse for the league. I dont see how droping your gloves a few second before the other guy does being the instigator. Look at the Columbus Chicago game the other night. That should have NOT been an instigator penalty on the Columbus player, not by a long shot.

If the rule stays it should be used in VERY selective situations. Not a liberally as it has been called in the past few years, especially this season. these types of situations have played out time after time this year. A player throws a cheep hit that almosts injures another player. A player goes and sticks up for his team mate. The cheep shot artist only gets 2, 4, or 5. While the player who did what USED to be known as the right thing to do gets 17mins in penalties.

That in my mind is not right and it takes away from what makes hockey such a great sport. That you should be held acountable for what you do on the ice. Not only by the rules but by the players on the ice. All of these inccidents that have happened this year shows me one thing. That the NHL would rather see a cheap play that could injure a player than ::gasp:: a fight. Until this changes the game will suffer and not be played with the same intensity it was played pre 1993.

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02-13-2007, 11:04 PM
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Yeah but why not try to get rid of cheap shots through enforcement of laws by the league! Instead you want to see physical play well if that's the case you will see cheap shots happen all the time and fighting and the use of enforcers just turns the whole situation into circus(meaning strictly animal like instinct to retaliate/anger for entertainment purposes).

Oh let's say a cheap shot injures a player how exactly does revenge from an enforcer change anything? Instead if there were strict rules that punish physical play then cheap shots wouldn't happen!

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02-13-2007, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobakecookies View Post
Yeah but why not try to get rid of cheap shots through enforcement of laws by the league! Instead you want to see physical play well if that's the case you will see cheap shots happen all the time and fighting and the use of enforcers just turns the whole situation into circus(meaning strictly animal like instinct to retaliate/anger for entertainment purposes).

Oh let's say a cheap shot injures a player how exactly does revenge from an enforcer change anything? Instead if there were strict rules that punish physical play then cheap shots wouldn't happen!
The NHL isn't strict with enforcement id rather get suspended 10 games then my ass handed to me by a Boogard/Laraque/Godard. The problem is the players know its gonna be a small suspension but they dont have to answer to anyone on the ice so they'll commit the crime and do the time, if a player could go after them i guarentee they would think twice

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02-13-2007, 11:20 PM
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Honestly, which player takes a suspension lightly and why would you want to be suspended more than once?

AND..why is it that cheap shots continue despite the existence of enforcers throughout the ages?

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02-13-2007, 11:26 PM
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Epsilon
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Originally Posted by Witter View Post
id rather get suspended 10 games then my ass handed to me by a Boogard/Laraque/Godard.
You have got to be kidding. A 10 game suspension results in the loss of a bunch of pay, that's a way more significant "punishment" than taking a few punches from some goon. It's not like Mike Tyson is the one doing the enforcing.

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02-13-2007, 11:37 PM
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rypper
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10 games suspended without pay, is alot of money lost.

Take for example a player who makes 6 million a season, makes roughly $73,000 a game. (well $73,170.73 exactly.) 10 games suspended means that player loses $731,707.30

Try explaining THAT to the missus.


or on the other end of the spectrum... a player making 450k a season loses roughly 50 grand for a 10 game suspension... ouch.

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02-14-2007, 12:04 AM
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I've always thought the instigator penalty protects the players it was meant to hinder. A guy can run around like an idiot and not have to fear retribution because he knows the other team will get an instigator penalty if someone comes after him. Play dirty and give your team a powerplay.

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02-14-2007, 12:15 AM
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does it matter in the end, since it's Bettman's own rule, its not going to change until someone runs Bettman out of the NHL.

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02-14-2007, 12:27 AM
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Bill Clemment on VS early in the season suggested that now that the "new nhl" has put in place all these rules to protect players and speed up the game, now might be a good time to revisit the instigator rule, as a way to protect players from the type of cheap play that the new rules inadvertently promote. Also, when the instigator rule first came into the leauge, all too often a clean hit that was met with a retaliating fist often got called as an intigating move, thus putting an anomalous element into the game fostering cheap shots and penalizing clean ones. Get rid of it.
-HckyFght!

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02-14-2007, 12:33 AM
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Bucky Katt
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Originally Posted by HemskyFreak83 View Post
does it matter in the end, since it's Bettman's own rule, its not going to change until someone runs Bettman out of the NHL.
Check your facts, the rule was in the NHL before Bettman.

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02-14-2007, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Bucky Katt View Post
Check your facts, the rule was in the NHL before Bettman.
come on, dont you know that if it stinks, bettman did it.

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02-14-2007, 01:02 AM
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Could be bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon View Post
You have got to be kidding. A 10 game suspension results in the loss of a bunch of pay, that's a way more significant "punishment" than taking a few punches from some goon. It's not like Mike Tyson is the one doing the enforcing.
Worse thing to happen to the NHL would be for some enforcer to really injure another player in a fight and have those shown on the sports shows in the US. Some of these guys are huge.

Boogard in Minny is what 6'6 and 260 lbs? Let's say Max Lapierre runs into Fernandez and Boogard goes over and does a serious number on him and Lapierre ends up with broken jaw and serious concussion and there's a tonne of blood on the ice. That is the nightmare the BOG sees in removing the Instigator penalty.

And hockey guys say that the game is emotional and heated. If some heavyweight loses it on the ice, it could be a major blackeye to the NHL is someone is carted off the ice after getting jumped.

If each team had guys who would jump right in and take on someone who was running around, causing problems, then it probably wouldn't be as bad. As long as there's no major mismatch of 5 inches and 40 lbs in a fight, there shouldn't be as much risk of serious injury in a fight. If you had guys the size of May and Barnaby doing the fighting, it would be better than having guys 6'5 and 250 lbs doing the fighting.

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Old
02-14-2007, 10:54 AM
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Morris Wanchuk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucky Katt View Post
Check your facts, the rule was in the NHL before Bettman.
yea but he came in the next year and did not change it. The players association asks him every year to try and overturn it and every year he says no

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02-14-2007, 11:11 AM
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xeric716x
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Instigator rule or not, cheap shots will always happen. please find another

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02-14-2007, 11:20 AM
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Witter
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I didnt know they lost pay while being suspended

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Old
02-14-2007, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by slava View Post
Instigator rule or not, cheap shots will always happen. please find another
Bah! Don't you know that, before the instigator rule, there never ever was a cheap shot? NO ONE ever, E-V-E-R, dished out a cheap shot. No one ever jumped another guy to get him out of the game for 5 minutes, especially not a goon who would try to get a 40 goal scorer off the ice with him. Never happened.

No, before the instigator rule, every game was played roughly but fairly and with scrupulous honour among all participants.

Get your facts right, sir!

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02-14-2007, 02:11 PM
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At the very least they should make it a 10 minute misconduct instead of a minor.

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02-14-2007, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gscarpenter2002 View Post
Bah! Don't you know that, before the instigator rule, there never ever was a cheap shot? NO ONE ever, E-V-E-R, dished out a cheap shot. No one ever jumped another guy to get him out of the game for 5 minutes, especially not a goon who would try to get a 40 goal scorer off the ice with him. Never happened.

No, before the instigator rule, every game was played roughly but fairly and with scrupulous honour among all participants.

Get your facts right, sir!
i don't think anyone has said that...of course there were issues of respect and cheap junk before '94. And i am not sure that it has increased since then...but i don't think it has decreased any either. The instigator penalty as currently enforced has almost completely removed a team's ability to keep its players respected.

Sure we can try to rely on the refs and post game suspensions. But that does not increase respect...the problem is that not all cheaps shots are clearly against the rules. One that has stood out to me i the when Paul Kariya was hit cleanly but perhaps a tad late by Scott Stevens. Shoulder to the head. No one on Anaheim did anything to Stevens. Nothing.

Now, in 93, in the Kings vs Maple Leafs series, the opposite occurred. If anyone so much as touched Doug Gilmour without puck, and there was instant retaliation. Doug was protected and played one of the better GRITTY playoff performances i have seen.

You can be against the fighting and enforcers because you don't like the violence. But to say it didn't and doesn't have some positive effects on the game is wrong.

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Old
02-14-2007, 02:14 PM
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Ronald Pagan
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Originally Posted by dropdagloves24 View Post
yea but he came in the next year and did not change it. The players association asks him every year to try and overturn it and every year he says no
Flat out wrong.

The PA was the first body to advocate FOR the instigator in light of all the headhunting that was going on the 70s and 80s. The instigator is not Bettman's creation, it's the players' and it serves a very useful purpose.

One way to tweak it would be to lessen then number of instigators it takes to get a suspension. Right now it's three maybe bump it up to 5. That would make a big difference.

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