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Al Strachan on the Score last night

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Old
02-14-2007, 09:07 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
The Flames have built a reputation as a perennial contender. Players know they will have a chance to win on the Flames.

The Oilers decade-and-a-half of mediocrity isn't exactly a draw for players.
Did you start watching hockey in 2004?


Last edited by Frank the Tank: 02-14-2007 at 09:08 AM. Reason: I see many more beat me to calling out this post
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02-14-2007, 09:08 AM
  #52
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since when have the flames been perennial contenders...? The flames over the past 15 years have been worse than the Oilers have. Prior to there trip to the finals, the flames missed the playoffs 7 straight years.
But this will make it three years in a row that they've made the playoffs. That has to make them perennial contenders.

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02-14-2007, 09:09 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Declassified View Post
everything

Diversity
Cultural crap
History
its not located halfway around the Country
Travel is cushy
night life
Entertainment

Every city has it's upside and downside even Montreal and Toronto but to say imply that Edmonton offers the same stuff as Montreal and Toronto is just stupid.
Diversity? Do you mean that Edmonton has no blacks or Asians? That kind of thing? If that is your measure, I disagree. Just walk a few blocks downtown and you will find that to be untrue.

Cultural Crap? What kind of cultural crap? We have a different festival every week during the summer, we have live theatre, art gallery...

History? I think this is a wash. If you compare European cities with Canadian ones you have a difference.

Halfway around the country? Compared to what? Toronto is halfway around the country to me.

Travel is cushy? The entire continent is close with air travel. But, if that really makes a difference, so be it.

Night life? Like night clubs? Pubs? Restaurants? Edmonton has plenty. I would guess athletes don't tend to go to Night Clubs very often, though.

Entertainment? Like what? Phantom of the Opera? Pavarotti? AC DC? Rod Stewart? Blue Man Group? Cirque de Soleil? Edmonton has all that stuff. What does Toronto really have that Edmonton does not?


To imply that Toronto has something that Edmonton does not is a myth - unless you can offer some tangibles.

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02-14-2007, 09:09 AM
  #54
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Does anybody else think this is the gospel straight from the mouth of Mike Peca?

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Old
02-14-2007, 09:10 AM
  #55
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Are they that fragile?????

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Originally Posted by eastcoasteh View Post
I don't have the exact quotes from it, but did anyone see Strachan on The Score last night when they were doing their 10-Minute Misconduct routine?

He basically said nobody wants to play for the oilers (he did preface this by saying he'd be hung by the people out there for saying it). He said there's so much pressure and a lot of it has to do with the focus on salaries. Every time someone makes a mistake or has a bad game their salary is brought up and the validity of their contracts is brought up. He siad the players grow sick of it and don't wanna play there.

I think he's full of it, but then again, he WAS right about the Pronger thing and judging by this site, I think he might be right. After all, aren't we the busiest board on here?
Come on Al, are hockey players that fragile???? They get paid loads of cash to play a sport!! They play hockey.......Not working in the patch, not asking if they want fries with that...they play hockey....They get paid regardless if they play bad, or if they lead the league in scoring...Yup they put in a lot of time working out, in the community, etc....but come on...are players that fragile that when the papers and people are all over them...maybe just maybe if they gave it 100% everynight people might give them a pass for an off night. Maybe the players don't like the accountability that the fans in edmonton place on them. Maybe some players don't want to earn the dollars they make...Al needs to get a real job and than look at the game from a hardworking fan that would like value for his/her moneu!

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02-14-2007, 09:11 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by PuckNut View Post
Tell that to Andrew Raycroft.
They just said he sucked and they shouldn't have traded for him... they never bring up his salary.

That was Strachan's point.

Now, whether the salary talk means that much more is totally up for debate, but it is true that the Oiler fans have always focused on a players salary, especially when he's struggling, or appears to be struggling, or doesn't live up to the expectations that fans have for that salary (see Peca, Michael... and yes I am one of those guys as well).

Again, whether that actually means anything or not is up for debate... I'm not so sure it does. Being told you suck probably isn't any better than being told you suck because you make xxx$.

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02-14-2007, 09:12 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by HotToddy View Post
Does anybody else think this is the gospel straight from the mouth of Mike Peca?
I was thinking the same thing.

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02-14-2007, 09:13 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
They just said he sucked and they shouldn't have traded for him... they never bring up his salary.

That was Strachan's point.

Now, whether the salary talk means that much more is totally up for debate, but it is true that the Oiler fans have always focused on a players salary, especially when he's struggling, or appears to be struggling, or doesn't live up to the expectations that fans have for that salary (see Peca, Michael... and yes I am one of those guys as well).

Again, whether that actually means anything or not is up for debate... I'm not so sure it does. Being told you suck probably isn't any better than being told you suck because you make xxx$.
Kubina and mccabe constatly get called overpaid trash by toronto fans. Its not just edmonton who talk about salary.

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02-14-2007, 09:14 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Declassified View Post
everything

Diversity
Cultural crap
History
its not located halfway around the Country
Travel is cushy
night life
Entertainment

Every city has it's upside and downside even Montreal and Toronto but to say imply that Edmonton offers the same stuff as Montreal and Toronto is just stupid.
But compared to Chicago and NYC (lived in both), Montreal and Toronto (lived in TO) are relatively 'boring' as well. In fact, unlike Chicago and NYC, Toronto is just one big suburb with not much of a city culture or attitude. Outside of a players born in Ontario who is the last unrestricted free agent to run to Toronto and sign a big contract because life is so great there?

Moreover, why is not every player signed with Florida (aka Miami), Anaheim, LA, and San Jose with the great weather and big city atmosphere? Why do players like Yzerman and Lidstrom stay in Detroit their entire careers when it is perhaps one of the worst cities to live in NA?

This issue is more complex that whether a player "likes" or "dislikes" a city and its fans. Besides money (which rules all), family status, playing time, teammates, coaching staff, caliber of the team have a lot more to do with the decision. For Strachan to simplify the decision to fan pressure is just another ignorant comment on his behalf.

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02-14-2007, 09:14 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
Diversity? Do you mean that Edmonton has no blacks or Asians? That kind of thing? If that is your measure, I disagree. Just walk a few blocks downtown and you will find that to be untrue.

Cultural Crap? What kind of cultural crap? We have a different festival every week during the summer, we have live theatre, art gallery...

History? I think this is a wash. If you compare European cities with Canadian ones you have a difference.

Halfway around the country? Compared to what? Toronto is halfway around the country to me.

Travel is cushy? The entire continent is close with air travel. But, if that really makes a difference, so be it.

Night life? Like night clubs? Pubs? Restaurants? Edmonton has plenty. I would guess athletes don't tend to go to Night Clubs very often, though.

Entertainment? Like what? Phantom of the Opera? Pavarotti? AC DC? Rod Stewart? Blue Man Group? Cirque de Soleil? Edmonton has all that stuff. What does Toronto really have that Edmonton does not?


To imply that Toronto has something that Edmonton does not is a myth - unless you can offer some tangibles.

now multiply that by 50 and you have toronto

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Old
02-14-2007, 09:15 AM
  #61
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How so, Calgary should be in the exact same situation edmonton is. middle of nowhere, smaller city, no nightlife, no entertainment, cold, yet no one ever brings up how nobody wants to play for calgary.
Okay, let's not turn this into a Calgary/Edmonton comparison, as that never plays out well. Calgary is a gateway city, an economic and financial center, and provides a higher standard of living (StatsCan backs this up each and every survey year). It is much easier to live in Calgary and make the connections to points south than it is anywhere else in Canada other than Toronto and Vancouver. These issues come into play when people select a city to live, especially when they are not from the region itself and have no ties. One thing that really makes Calgary attractive is the foothills and mountains. Here's a comparison that will hopefully make some sense to those who have travelled. Calgary is to Denver as Edmonton is to St. Louis. Give people a choice where they would rather live, and Denver wins out 80% of the time. The setting of the city, the proximity to the mountains, the economic factors, and the accessibility options make it the better choice.

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02-14-2007, 09:15 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
They just said he sucked and they shouldn't have traded for him... they never bring up his salary.

That was Strachan's point.

Now, whether the salary talk means that much more is totally up for debate, but it is true that the Oiler fans have always focused on a players salary, especially when he's struggling, or appears to be struggling, or doesn't live up to the expectations that fans have for that salary (see Peca, Michael... and yes I am one of those guys as well).

Again, whether that actually means anything or not is up for debate... I'm not so sure it does. Being told you suck probably isn't any better than being told you suck because you make xxx$.
I don't think it's salary exactly. It's more expectations. People expected Pisani to continue playing like he did in the playoffs. He's not. People expected Mike Peca to come in and centre our top line. He didn't. Smith and Torres have been taking alot of flak this year, but nothing about their salary. Expectations are the main thing, and salary just adds to that. It's one more facet of the problem.

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Old
02-14-2007, 09:17 AM
  #63
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now multiply that by 50 and you have toronto
Ok, it is the center of the universe after all.

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Old
02-14-2007, 09:18 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
They just said he sucked and they shouldn't have traded for him... they never bring up his salary.

That was Strachan's point.
They certainly bring up Kubina and McCabe's salary... at least the callers on 590 that I've heard...

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02-14-2007, 09:18 AM
  #65
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now multiply that by 50 and you have toronto
So, there is nothing different about what Toronto offers? As I thought.

Toronto has 5X the population so, naturally, they will have 5X the stuff. Per capita it equates to exactly the same thing. You need 5X the amount to give everyone the same services that they get in Edmonton.

It is all a myth that Toronto has so much more to offer than Edmonton. It is pretty much the same.

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02-14-2007, 09:18 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
They just said he sucked and they shouldn't have traded for him... they never bring up his salary.

That was Strachan's point.

Now, whether the salary talk means that much more is totally up for debate, but it is true that the Oiler fans have always focused on a players salary, especially when he's struggling, or appears to be struggling, or doesn't live up to the expectations that fans have for that salary (see Peca, Michael... and yes I am one of those guys as well).

Again, whether that actually means anything or not is up for debate... I'm not so sure it does. Being told you suck probably isn't any better than being told you suck because you make xxx$.

my question remains.... who exacty tells the players this? fans walking up to the players on a daily basis telling them they suck and aren't worth the pay they make? It's not happening, fans when interacting with a player in this city are more then generous and kind.. The fan boards like these are the only place its happening.. players don't read these boards.. they are nuts to do so..

Time in and time out, Players that have gone on to other teams usually in some way take parting shots at Klowe....

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02-14-2007, 09:19 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Frank the Tank View Post
But compared to Chicago and NYC (lived in both), Montreal and Toronto (lived in TO) are relatively 'boring' as well. In fact, unlike Chicago and NYC, Toronto is just one big suburb with not much of a city culture or attitude. Outside of a players born in Ontario who is the last unrestricted free agent to run to Toronto and sign a big contract because life is so great there?

Moreover, why is not every player signed with Florida (aka Miami), Anaheim, LA, and San Jose with the great weather and big city atmosphere? Why do players like Yzerman and Lidstrom stay in Detroit their entire careers when it is perhaps one of the worst cities to live in NA?

This issue is more complex that whether a player "likes" or "dislikes" a city and its fans. Besides money (which rules all), family status, playing time, teammates, coaching staff, caliber of the team have a lot more to do with the decision. For Strachan to simplify the decision to fan pressure is just another ignorant comment on his behalf.
I clearly said from the get go there was exceptions. and teams cant have 500 players, and different players prefer different places.

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Old
02-14-2007, 09:19 AM
  #68
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Okay, let's not turn this into a Calgary/Edmonton comparison, as that never plays out well. Calgary is a gateway city, an economic and financial center, and provides a higher standard of living (StatsCan backs this up each and every survey year). It is much easier to live in Calgary and make the connections to points south than it is anywhere else in Canada other than Toronto and Vancouver. These issues come into play when people select a city to live, especially when they are not from the region itself and have no ties. One thing that really makes Calgary attractive is the foothills and mountains. Here's a comparison that will hopefully make some sense to those who have travelled. Calgary is to Denver as Edmonton is to St. Louis. Give people a choice where they would rather live, and Denver wins out 80% of the time. The setting of the city, the proximity to the mountains, the economic factors, and the accessibility options make it the better choice.
This isn't calgary vs Edmonton comparison. This is saying how Calgary isn't that different than Edmonton, and never is it mentioned that a player wouldn't want to play in calgary, but its always brought up in regards to edmonton since pronger left.

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02-14-2007, 09:20 AM
  #69
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What I think the truth is - and what probably hurts Edmontonians even more - is that quality of life in Edmonton pales in comparison to other NHL cities, at least when it comes to the superstar lifestyle.

Factor in the travel schedule, and Edmonton isn't exactly a top choice destination.

Think about it. If you had no roots in this city - no friends, no family, no nothing - would you CHOOSE to live in Edmonton? I'm guessing not.
So this is what Strachan said, and you said he's probably right (taken from the thread starter):

He basically said nobody wants to play for the oilers (he did preface this by saying he'd be hung by the people out there for saying it). He said there's so much pressure and a lot of it has to do with the focus on salaries. Every time someone makes a mistake or has a bad game their salary is brought up and the validity of their contracts is brought up. He siad the players grow sick of it and don't wanna play there.

Anyway, you're right that players will want to live in the cities they will most enjoy. It sucks - both that you're right and that players probably prefer other cities. We would all want to do the same. If there was a poll of NHLers, which city would they choose as their favourite? I'm guessing Edmonton wouldn't be at the top of the list, unfortunately.

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02-14-2007, 09:20 AM
  #70
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I don't think it's salary exactly. It's more expectations. People expected Pisani to continue playing like he did in the playoffs. He's not. People expected Mike Peca to come in and centre our top line. He didn't. Smith and Torres have been taking alot of flak this year, but nothing about their salary. Expectations are the main thing, and salary just adds to that. It's one more facet of the problem.
Pisani gets called the biggest offseason mistake lowe made and people point to the $$$. If Pisani made $1.1 mil, no one makes this comment. It's because salary level in Edmonton comes with certain expectations.

It probably stems from all the penny pinching over the years so fans are so used to trying to analyze performance based on $$$$.

Peca continually got criticized last year for not playing like a $4mil player.

Lately not even Roloson can escape talk about how much money he makes and how he should be traded.

Smith got called out, but he's never been criticized over money... neither has Torres... perhaps because they don't make that much, or don't perceive to make that much (at least in the case of Torres).

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02-14-2007, 09:22 AM
  #71
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I clearly said from the get go there was exceptions. and teams cant have 500 players, and different players prefer different places.
My point exactly! But according to Strachan no player wants to play in Edmonton.

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02-14-2007, 09:24 AM
  #72
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They just said he sucked and they shouldn't have traded for him... they never bring up his salary.

That was Strachan's point.

Now, whether the salary talk means that much more is totally up for debate, but it is true that the Oiler fans have always focused on a players salary, especially when he's struggling, or appears to be struggling, or doesn't live up to the expectations that fans have for that salary (see Peca, Michael... and yes I am one of those guys as well).

Again, whether that actually means anything or not is up for debate... I'm not so sure it does. Being told you suck probably isn't any better than being told you suck because you make xxx$.
What I have to ask is how often do complaints about Pisani making $2.5 a year make it to Pisani? How is the opinion shared by some that he should be making more like $1.8 a year currently affecting his life?

I really don't know, but absent sentiment like that in the proper media, unless the player is being harassed about it in Safeway, or unless he comes to these boards and walks away with tears in his eyes, I can't help but think that this is an issue that is far more in Strachan's mind than it exists in the minds of players. That this is something that people like Strachan and those of us here are way more aware of.

I can certainly see some players balking at the fishbowl though. Not because of the salary thing - to think that's Edmonton specific is really silly; ask St. Louis about the pressure to justify his bucks that he felt in Tampa last year - but because it's hard for them to go to Tim Hortons anonymously.

But conversely, I have to think there are a lot of advantages to living in a fishbowl town. No matter what happens in his career in Anaheim, CFP will never experience the love and respect this city felt for him and showered him with. I can't believe that players really don't want to play in front of a crowd like there was in this city last May - that's has to be a positive that places like Florida just aren't going to offer. Given the myriad of human interests and desires, I have to think that there are some players who would prefer to be the king fish in the small pond.

Anyway, you'll never get an accurate criticism about this town and it's FA potential from Strachan, no matter what. Even if he stumbled across a legitimate sentiment, his filter would change it.

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02-14-2007, 09:24 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Q038 View Post
my question remains.... who exacty tells the players this? fans walking up to the players on a daily basis telling them they suck and aren't worth the pay they make? It's not happening, fans when interacting with a player in this city are more then generous and kind.. The fan boards like these are the only place its happening.. players don't read these boards.. they are nuts to do so..
As big an idiot as Strachan is, and as sensational as he tries to be (i.e. Saying Pronger felt he "served his sentence in Edmonton"), he usually basis it on facts. He definitely spins them and overemphasises what he is told to make it sound bigger than it is, but someone told him that they had issues with Edmonton because of the fans continually bringing up money and performance.

And I agree with HotToddy... sounds like Peca.

Quote:
Time in and time out, Players that have gone on to other teams usually in some way take parting shots at Klowe....
Like who?

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02-14-2007, 09:25 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Frank the Tank View Post
My point exactly! But according to Strachan no player wants to play in Edmonton.


he clearly means the majority.

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02-14-2007, 09:25 AM
  #75
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It probably stems from all the penny pinching over the years so fans are so used to trying to analyze performance based on $$$$.
I think this is very true. It certainly frustrates me here, and it would be nice if people took this consideration to heart.

But again, I can't imagine that it really affects a player's life, unless the fans are on him en masse, booing him at games and cussing him at McDonald's.

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