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Al Strachan on the Score last night

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Old
02-14-2007, 10:28 AM
  #76
dawgbone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonQuixote View Post
What I have to ask is how often do complaints about Pisani making $2.5 a year make it to Pisani? How is the opinion shared by some that he should be making more like $1.8 a year currently affecting his life?

I really don't know, but absent sentiment like that in the proper media, unless the player is being harassed about it in Safeway, or unless he comes to these boards and walks away with tears in his eyes, I can't help but think that this is an issue that is far more in Strachan's mind than it exists in the minds of players. That this is something that people like Strachan and those of us here are way more aware of.

I can certainly see some players balking at the fishbowl though. Not because of the salary thing - to think that's Edmonton specific is really silly; ask St. Louis about the pressure to justify his bucks that he felt in Tampa last year - but because it's hard for them to go to Tim Hortons anonymously.

But conversely, I have to think there are a lot of advantages to living in a fishbowl town. No matter what happens in his career in Anaheim, CFP will never experience the love and respect this city felt for him and showered him with. I can't believe that players really don't want to play in front of a crowd like there was in this city last May - that's has to be a positive that places like Florida just aren't going to offer. Given the myriad of human interests and desires, I have to think that there are some players who would prefer to be the king fish in the small pond.

Anyway, you'll never get an accurate criticism about this town and it's FA potential from Strachan, no matter what. Even if he stumbled across a legitimate sentiment, his filter would change it.
I agree completely with most of what you said, especially the last paragraph. That being said, while Strachan really put the gears to Edmonton about Pronger wanting out (comparing it to a prison term), he was right that Pronger wanted out. He sensationalized it, but it was still based somewhat on facts (even though he probably twisted them for his agenda).

I have no doubts this was based on facts as well... someone told him that Oiler fans did this. No whether it's as big a deal as Strachan says is up for debate.

As for where players hear it... I honestly don't know. I don't know how much the phone in shows or the sports guys talk about it. But with the amount it gets talked about on here, I find it hard to believe this is the only location for it.

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02-14-2007, 10:31 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
This isn't calgary vs Edmonton comparison. This is saying how Calgary isn't that different than Edmonton, and never is it mentioned that a player wouldn't want to play in calgary, but its always brought up in regards to edmonton since pronger left.
Fact of the matter is that players are starting to make that differentiation, whether you care to admit it or not. That is one of the reasons why I think some of it is organizational, and some of it is the city itself.

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02-14-2007, 10:34 AM
  #78
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i wonder what strachan's agenda is against the team and city...everytime you think its over he comes up with something new...i loved it how burke shut him up on satellite hotstove a few years ago...i'd like lowe to do the same...but he probably won't...

how many players actually spend their offseasons in the city they play?...how much time do they exactly have to chill out during the season?...

I went to Tdot two summers ago and i hated it...its basically a bigger version of edmonton and nothing different...plus it takes you at least an hour to get from place to place...diversity, entertainment, industry, nightlife, history...edmonton has it all...its just the media that claims otherwise and that's the perception that sticks in th minds of those who don't live here...

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02-14-2007, 10:36 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
Diversity? Do you mean that Edmonton has no blacks or Asians? That kind of thing? If that is your measure, I disagree. Just walk a few blocks downtown and you will find that to be untrue.

Cultural Crap? What kind of cultural crap? We have a different festival every week during the summer, we have live theatre, art gallery...

History? I think this is a wash. If you compare European cities with Canadian ones you have a difference.

Halfway around the country? Compared to what? Toronto is halfway around the country to me.

Travel is cushy? The entire continent is close with air travel. But, if that really makes a difference, so be it.

Night life? Like night clubs? Pubs? Restaurants? Edmonton has plenty. I would guess athletes don't tend to go to Night Clubs very often, though.

Entertainment? Like what? Phantom of the Opera? Pavarotti? AC DC? Rod Stewart? Blue Man Group? Cirque de Soleil? Edmonton has all that stuff. What does Toronto really have that Edmonton does not?


To imply that Toronto has something that Edmonton does not is a myth - unless you can offer some tangibles.
Go to Toronto and you'll realize Edmonton is swamp.

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02-14-2007, 10:37 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
The fact that Edmonton fans get so invariably defensive every time something like this is mentioned suggests to me that even deep down they believe it, too.

I happen to think Strachan is probably right.

a person living in Ontario should not be saying bad things about someone else's city on their message board. It is called manners. I really don't care what you opinion is of Edmonton, you don't go to an Edmonton board and say bad things about Edmonton.

I fail to see how this is not trolling.

As for Strachan, he is an agry man. He hates everything about successful organizations. He is bitter about something and lashes out every chance he gets. Read a few of his articles and you have to wonder why he even covers a sport that he detests so much.

His opinion is completely irrelevent to informed hockey fans. Pronger said his experience in Edmonton was the best of his hockey career. Just about every player who has left here for more money talks about it being a positive experience.

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02-14-2007, 10:37 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
The difference is, they don't sit there and ***** about every single player who makes more than $2mil and isn't living up to the standards put forth by the fans.

You'd never hear fans in Toronto whining about how Pisani makes $2.5 mil and only has 9 goals (especially with the role he's playing), and calling it a terrible signing.


...



...



You most certainly would hear that, especially in the cap era.

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Old
02-14-2007, 10:38 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
Go to Toronto and you'll realize Edmonton is swamp.

LOL.

A swamp where I can commute to downtown in less than 30 minutes, afford to buy a house, get a hockey ticket and have all the same amenities as bigger centers.

I'll take my swamp, thanks.

You don't even want to live in Toronto.

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02-14-2007, 10:38 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Mr Sakich View Post
a person living in Ontario should not be saying bad things about someone else's city on their message board. It is called manners. I really don't care what you opinion is of Edmonton, you don't go to an Edmonton board and say bad things about Edmonton.

I fail to see how this is not trolling.

As for Strachan, he is an agry man. He hates everything about successful organizations. He is bitter about something and lashes out every chance he gets. Read a few of his articles and you have to wonder why he even covers a sport that he detests so much.

His opinion is completely irrelevent to informed hockey fans. Pronger said his experience in Edmonton was the best of his hockey career. Just about every player who has left here for more money talks about it being a positive experience.
It's not trolling when the actual thread is about debating the merits of a city.

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02-14-2007, 10:39 AM
  #84
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Besides all this stuff should be beyond the point. Stuff like culture, weather, diversity. Come on people give your heads a shake. We aer'nt talking about international soccer stars or something. These guys are'nt from Milan, Rio, or London. Hockey players come from places like Moose Jaw, Fort MacMurrey, Cranbrook.... theres something serously wrong when your average hoceky player whose usually from small town Canada, would rather be ananymous and play in Nashville, instead of Edmonton

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02-14-2007, 10:40 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by callighenfan View Post


...



...



You most certainly would hear that, especially in the cap era.
How much whining have the Leaf fans done about Peca's salary (he makes the same as Pisani)? He has missed a lot of time with injury and only has 4 goals in 35 games this year.

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02-14-2007, 10:40 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by oil slick View Post
They certainly bring up Kubina and McCabe's salary... at least the callers on 590 that I've heard...
Exactly. Listen to the Fan 590, Leafs Lunch or After the Horn on AM 640, read the Toronto Sun, or Star and you see and hear much of the same. Moaning and complaining about McCabe's contract, Kubina's contract, etc....

To me the "fans complaining about salary" issue is a complete non-issue.

However, simply the fact that Toronto is in the Eastern Conference would make it a much more desireable destination than Edmonton.

Let's face it, players have lives too and most of them would likely rather spend a lot less time travelling.

That's only one reason to choose Toronto over Edmonton.

But, the fans complaining about salary being an issue....I don't buy that. The only places where that doesn't happen is places where hockey is never talked about.....like say.....Anaheim.

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02-14-2007, 10:41 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
Go to Toronto and you'll realize Edmonton is swamp.
If edmontons a swamp, Kingston is an outhouse.

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02-14-2007, 10:41 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
The Flames have built a reputation as a perennial contender. Players know they will have a chance to win on the Flames.

The Oilers decade-and-a-half of mediocrity isn't exactly a draw for players.
QFBS

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02-14-2007, 10:42 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
How much whining have the Leaf fans done about Peca's salary (he makes the same as Pisani)? He has missed a lot of time with injury and only has 4 goals in 35 games this year.
I work with 6 torontonians everyday

Every waking minute

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02-14-2007, 10:42 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
How much whining have the Leaf fans done about Peca's salary (he makes the same as Pisani)? He has missed a lot of time with injury and only has 4 goals in 35 games this year.
Complaints about Kubina's or McCabe's don't count?

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02-14-2007, 10:46 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
Go to Toronto and you'll realize Edmonton is swamp.
You know, I think we here have had enough of your crap, son. Maybe it is finally time for you to take a graceful exit. Sit this one out and let the adults handle it.

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02-14-2007, 10:46 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
Go to Toronto and you'll realize Edmonton is swamp.
...and go to a real city like Chicago or NYC and you will see Toronto is pretty bland in terms of nightlife and things to do.

My point, is to not flame a city, but point each city has its positives and negatives and a lot of times it depends on what is important to each individual.

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02-14-2007, 10:47 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
Go to Toronto and you'll realize Edmonton is swamp.
I lived in Toronto for nearly 2 years... I'd much rather live elsewhere than in the city itself.

Heck, the only time I actually go into Toronto is to go to the ACC for something. Downtown is certainly not for everyone, and there's no difference between Edmonton and Mississauga in terms of what you can do... the only difference is it won't take you 2 hours to get to work if a little bit of snow falls onto the ground.

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02-14-2007, 10:48 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
How much whining have the Leaf fans done about Peca's salary (he makes the same as Pisani)? He has missed a lot of time with injury and only has 4 goals in 35 games this year.
That's because he's not underperforming. Because of injury, he's not performing at all, and fans know there's not much you can do about that. I think Raycroft would be a better example, and I'm certain I've heard similar things about e.g. Nik Antropov. After I posted my response, someone else pointed out, quite rightly I think, that mentality-wise there's a hangover in Edmonton from the penny-pinching years, and it's equally true that Leafs fans have never had to have that mentality in the past.

But under the cap (unless it continues rising to the point where it's a complete joke) it's going to start moving into the middle, to the point where everyone is debating cap numbers at least to some extent, and whether a player is a bargain or an albatross is really going to matter. I definitely see signs that Leafs fans and the media are recognizing that out here. I just took exception to the idea that you would "never" hear that from Leafs fans.

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02-14-2007, 10:49 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
What about all the players from Edmonton and Alberta I suppose none of them want to play in Edmonton either. I'd be interested in how many players strachan has talked to about who doesn't want to play in Edmonton, I'm sure you could find players who don't want to play in Toronto, or Montreal, or philidelphia, or Anahiem.

EDIT: I'm sure that there are players who wouldn't want to play in Edmonton, I'm not disputing that, but when Strachan says that no one wants to play here, thats when it bugs me.
Yes, there's the odd exception, cut Strachan some slack here. I don't think he mean, ABSOLUTELY no one in the history of the NHL EVER wanted/want to play for the Oilers, he was speaking in general terms

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02-14-2007, 10:50 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Q038 View Post
I work with 6 torontonians everyday

Every waking minute
6... I have 6 who live in the house to the right of mine. I've got 3 to the other side. My office is chalk full of leaf fans.

Here, there is not even 1/10th of the griping about salaries as there is on this board alone.

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02-14-2007, 10:50 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
LOL.

A swamp where I can commute to downtown in less than 30 minutes, afford to buy a house, get a hockey ticket and have all the same amenities as bigger centers.

I'll take my swamp, thanks.

You don't even want to live in Toronto.
Boy you sure have done your research.

Average housing cost in Edmonton, as of January 2007, was $375,646. In Toronto, the average price is $353,724.

http://www.bmonesbittburns.com/econo...ts/feb0807.pdf

And commuting to downtown in 30 minutes may be useful if anyone actually had a reason to go there.

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02-14-2007, 10:50 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
Go to Toronto and you'll realize Edmonton is swamp.
That's just silly. I was born and raised in Edmonton but have lived in Toronto for almost three years now, and I can say that there are substantial merits to both cities (and a lot more similarities to both than people realize), it just depends on what your values are. And hockey players' values aren't uniform.

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02-14-2007, 10:51 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
Please explain the difference.

I know a man that recently moved to Edmonton from Toronto because "I couldn't afford to live downtown and I was tired of a 90 minute commute by train each way every day. I never got to see my kids."

Combine that with the fact that you can't get hockey tickets in Toronto and the advantage of Toronto is....?
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that an NHL player is not going to have a problem with the cost of living.

I'm also going to suggest that an NHL player is not going to ahve as much trouble getting tickets as the average joe

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02-14-2007, 10:51 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by HotToddy View Post
Does anybody else think this is the gospel straight from the mouth of Mike Peca?
This is exactly what I thought while reading the thread.

The guy was constantly referenced by his inflated salary and was eager to catch the first flight out of Edmonton when the season ended. Add in that he is now in Toronto where Strachan has ample access to him and it sounds like a match to me.

Now here is the rub, what is wrong with pointing out that Mike Peca was being paid way too much for how he was playing? Was it inaccrurate? Is he offended because he was held accountable for signing what HE felt was a fair contract despite not living up to expectations?

This whole argument is a red herring imo. Some players do get a rough ride because of what they make (and some people take it way too far in their critisisms but every demographic has a few melodramatics) but this is simply because they see themselves as worth a certain amount and then don't perform up to their market comaparables. Is it unfair?

They may not like the idea of the general public knowing what they make BUT they wouldn't have it any other way. They know damn well that this is as much a reason for their escalating salaries as anything they do on the ice.

Further to that, maybe Toronto doesn't magnify their salaries vs performance to the same degree as a place like Edmonton but that is because value for dollar is only now starting to get recognized. In the past they could cover up their overpayed, underperforming stars by going out and getting another guy to bolster their line up. This is going to change as we move further along in a capped world. Guys like McCabe are going to start getting qualified by thier overpriced contracts because if he isn't helping the team, the team will have no recourse to fixing the situation. For better or worse Edmonton has a 10 year head start in identifying (sometimes inaccurately) the difference between living up to their contracts and resting on it.

It's really quite simple, if a player signs a contract - be it high or low - then all the player has to do is play up to it. If they are offended by that notion or feel that it is an unfair expectation then why does Edmonton even want such a guy never mind care about what he thinks of such a situation?

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