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Old
02-17-2007, 04:17 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by thedjpd View Post
I can't believe comments like this sometimes. Hossa has his 'first' REAL breakout season at 27 and is getting some recognition, after being with Atlanta all of 1.5 years, and all of a sudden becomes the face of the franchise?

I understand he may be a better more complete player right now, but Hossa is NOT the real star of this team. This IS Kovalchuk's team - he's been here since 18 years old, born and raised. For better or worse, Kovalchuk is our franchise player. Hossa only came here because of a contract disupute and the Heatley incident, and for no other reason.

I'd bet Kovalchuk is here longer than Hossa ignoring age and in terms of length of service, from this point on.
While that is VERY true, Hossa still is a better 2-way player than Kovi is. Like ya'll have said, Kovi is the sniper (and the best in the NHL IMO) for the PP. I'm not impressed with him through neutral zone or forechecking as I am with Hossa.

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02-17-2007, 05:20 PM
  #27
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Comparing Kovy and Hossa is like comparing apples and oranges.

I'm not sure there's a package of players from one team that I would take in exchange for Kovy. He's just too good and fun to watch when he's on his game. He brings the fans out of their seats at least once per game. Now, the franchise will have a serious decision on their hands with Hossa next year. If Hossa is resigned, you'll have a TON of salary tied up in Hossa, Kovalchuk, and Lehtonen, and we've seen what the team looks like with little supporting cast. That's still a year away, but does anyone think Hossa will resign here after not having made the playoffs in two years with the team?

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02-18-2007, 06:04 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by RoyalAir View Post
Comparing Kovy and Hossa is like comparing apples and oranges.

I'm not sure there's a package of players from one team that I would take in exchange for Kovy. He's just too good and fun to watch when he's on his game. He brings the fans out of their seats at least once per game. Now, the franchise will have a serious decision on their hands with Hossa next year. If Hossa is resigned, you'll have a TON of salary tied up in Hossa, Kovalchuk, and Lehtonen, and we've seen what the team looks like with little supporting cast. That's still a year away, but does anyone think Hossa will resign here after not having made the playoffs in two years with the team?
The best package of players in the NHL right now is Zetterberg/Datsuyk are quite possibly the best combination of forwards in the league right now. Both are averaging almost 3 points a game! If you were wanting to trade Kovi (which I'm not suggesting) ATL needs to get another center who is a dangler like Hossa. Problem is, you still can't push two All-stars on the same line until they know how to play with one another. But when you do...you get a Zetterberg/Datsuyk or St. Louis/Lecavier

They will make the playoffs this year, I have no doubt about that. There is still one more solid month of play. If they come out with 3/4 of the wins, they'll get a decent seed, but will probably end up playing NJ. However, maybe the best thing to do is another Foppa style trade. Hossa could pull in some serious Draft picks as well as some high caliber players.

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02-18-2007, 09:35 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LS1PWR View Post
If they come out with 3/4 of the wins, they'll get a decent seed, but will probably end up playing NJ.
of all the teams i'd like to face in the playoffs, NJ is right up there for some reason, they tend to bring out the best in us

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02-18-2007, 09:56 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by gamera View Post
of all the teams i'd like to face in the playoffs, NJ is right up there for some reason, they tend to bring out the best in us
One of the very few teams IMO that has Marty's # I'm a little concerned against Tampa though....those two midgets on their team are pissing me off both as a ATL/MN fan as well as a fantasy player

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02-18-2007, 10:00 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by kaberlefan15 View Post
as leaf fan i'd pretty much trade anything in our oganaztion to get him if he was on the trading block


my proposal



to tor: kovalchuk and maybe a 7th or 8th rounder



to atl: stajan,bell,riemer,1st round pick sugolbov(throw in)


Even if that was fair, which it isn't, I wouldn't want him on the leafs.

I've hated Kovalchuck since that WJC where he was goofing around while he was scoring the empty netter in the finals and taunting the Canadian players.

I swear, if he ever did that in the NHL, he'd certainly get a cheap shot in his direction

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02-18-2007, 10:14 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LS1PWR View Post
One of the very few teams IMO that has Marty's # I'm a little concerned against Tampa though....those two midgets on their team are pissing me off both as a ATL/MN fan as well as a fantasy player
Tampa has been tough for us all season...I remember ALL TOO WELL the 8-0 loss in Tampa

I agree wholeheartedly, even though it would be a nice short drive to the away games (compared to NJ)...I'd rather have to fly to NJ than play Tampa

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02-18-2007, 10:19 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by gamera View Post
Tampa has been tough for us all season...I remember ALL TOO WELL the 8-0 loss in Tampa

I agree wholeheartedly, even though it would be a nice short drive to the away games (compared to NJ)...I'd rather have to fly to NJ than play Tampa
Agreed, Tampa for some reason kicked it into gear with those two and started scoring goals. They weren't doing ANYTHING at the beginning of the season, what made them need to do it now

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02-19-2007, 11:43 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by thedjpd View Post
I can't believe comments like this sometimes. Hossa has his 'first' REAL breakout season at 27 and is getting some recognition, after being with Atlanta all of 1.5 years, and all of a sudden becomes the face of the franchise?

I understand he may be a better more complete player right now, but Hossa is NOT the real star of this team. This IS Kovalchuk's team - he's been here since 18 years old, born and raised. For better or worse, Kovalchuk is our franchise player. Hossa only came here because of a contract disupute and the Heatley incident, and for no other reason.

I'd bet Kovalchuk is here longer than Hossa ignoring age and in terms of length of service, from this point on.

I would like to add: let's not forget who carried this team when Heater was out.

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02-19-2007, 11:45 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by gamera View Post
Tampa has been tough for us all season...I remember ALL TOO WELL the 8-0 loss in Tampa

I agree wholeheartedly, even though it would be a nice short drive to the away games (compared to NJ)...I'd rather have to fly to NJ than play Tampa
U rather face Brodeur and his 11 or whatever SO?

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02-19-2007, 11:47 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by CCCP View Post
U rather face Brodeur and his 11 or whatever SO?
In a heartbeat Marty can't win when its snipers and garbage pickers against him. His 11 shutouts have come against teams that I don't see as better than ATL's offensive powers

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02-19-2007, 12:53 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCCP View Post
U rather face Brodeur and his 11 or whatever SO?
in a word: yes

we are 3-1 against them this season, and the one loss was 2-1...all the games with the exception of 12/23 (5-2 win @home), were one goal games though

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Old
02-19-2007, 03:19 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedjpd View Post
I can't believe comments like this sometimes. Hossa has his 'first' REAL breakout season at 27 and is getting some recognition, after being with Atlanta all of 1.5 years, and all of a sudden becomes the face of the franchise?
It's only a breakout season because everyone on Ottawa was forgotten about and dismissed in terms of their talent and ability, particularly when playing under Martin's defensive system and with Radek "Laziest Player in the League" Bonk.

Now we have "breakout" seasons from Havlat and Hossa, but anyone who has actually watched them play aren't surprised in the least.

Now that Kovalchuk doesn't have the top line talent, and Hossa does, you see some reversal in fortunes.

If Hossa had been playing for Atlanta all this time, he'd have "broken out" already.

Your franchise player should be the guy that lays it on the line, night after night, and is the single most important cog on the team. If that's Kovalchuk, fine.

But the fact that he's been on the team since he was 18 doesn't really factor in when you look at on-ice performance and leading the team.

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Old
02-19-2007, 04:06 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
It's only a breakout season because everyone on Ottawa was forgotten about and dismissed in terms of their talent and ability, particularly when playing under Martin's defensive system and with Radek "Laziest Player in the League" Bonk.

Now we have "breakout" seasons from Havlat and Hossa, but anyone who has actually watched them play aren't surprised in the least.

Now that Kovalchuk doesn't have the top line talent, and Hossa does, you see some reversal in fortunes.

If Hossa had been playing for Atlanta all this time, he'd have "broken out" already.

Your franchise player should be the guy that lays it on the line, night after night, and is the single most important cog on the team. If that's Kovalchuk, fine.

But the fact that he's been on the team since he was 18 doesn't really factor in when you look at on-ice performance and leading the team.
I disagree entirely. A player that grows up with a team and breaks out with them, and is the face of the franchise for 3+ years doesn't just lose it becuase somebody else comes in later. Forsberg could have been a franchise player for Colorado, because of his talent and his drive - and he grew up with that franchise. Even though he was drafted by a different team, he didn't build a name for himself until he was with Colorado. Many could argue Forsberg is/was at some point a better player than Sakic - but it's still Sakic's team. That's who you associate with Colorado. Not Forsberg.

If Hossa had been playing in Atlanta all this time, and grew up with the franchise, then yes - he might have been our franchise player. But he can't come in here, even after a breakout season with any other team, regardless, and after a year become the team. It's just not how it works. And it's not what happened.

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02-20-2007, 01:26 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by pink_floyd_floyd View Post
if you guys don't make the playoffs this year again, would you consider trading kovalchuk to the habs for some draft picks maybe ??
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Period.

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Old
02-22-2007, 10:16 AM
  #41
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I've hated Kovalchuck since that WJC where he was goofing around while he was scoring the empty netter in the finals and taunting the Canadian players.
Are you my friend Mark? If it weren't for you using the leafs avatar i would think so. He tells me that ALL the time. "Kovalchuk is an @ss for doing that!!" I'm Canadian and i saw really nothing wrong with a kid being happy about winning a game they were considered underdogs for. Canada vs Russia games are always heated...and great games.

I swear, if he ever did that in the NHL, he'd certainly get a cheap shot in his direction
He sure would...but i think he's grown up considerably since his WJC days.

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Old
02-22-2007, 11:08 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Le Golie View Post
Can anyone tell me what's going on with Kovalchuk this year? He is scoring less than a point per game and that doesn't seem right... has there been any problem with him?
Yeah he doesn't have marc savard setting him up anymore.

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02-22-2007, 02:21 PM
  #43
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Yeah he doesn't have marc savard setting him up anymore.
No, no no. So horribly wrong. The reason Kovy's point per game ratio is down is because Hartley cant figure out how to make the PP work this year. Someone on this board already pointed out that his even strength numbers are the same as last year, where he is struggling is on the PP.

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02-22-2007, 02:33 PM
  #44
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SAvard wasn't on the pp last year? that's weird.

here look at the stats this is powerplay last year

gp ppg ppa ppp
ILYA KOVALCHUK ATL L 78 27 29 56
2 MARC SAVARD ATL C 82 14 36 50
3 MARIAN HOSSA ATL R 80 14 25 39

so who is feeding him the puck this year?


Last edited by Bruins420: 02-22-2007 at 02:39 PM.
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02-22-2007, 02:40 PM
  #45
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I'n not saying Savard didnt help EVERYONE on the PP last year, we have missed him in ATL this year. I just don't think that Kovy's numbers are down because of Savard. I think its more that Hartley doesnt know how to put someone in Savard's hole. Instead of putting someone like a Metropolit persay on the PP with Kovy on a regular basis, who has decent hands (Im not saying he is as good as Savard), he chooses to put out Scott Mellanby who sits in front of the net. Hartley just doesnt seem to understand how chemistry works, and its effected multiple facets of our game this year.

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02-22-2007, 02:52 PM
  #46
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sorry thats what i meant to say in the original post not savard but a playmaker like him. Atlanta needs to get a smolinski (cheap rental) for there pp someone who can find kovy even a quarterback for the blue line like a mara who doesn't even get any playing time on the pp on boston but was awesome for the coyotes. Atlanta is a defensemen and forward(passer) away from being a real threat in the playoffs.

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Old
02-22-2007, 03:22 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by kaberlefan15 View Post
as leaf fan i'd pretty much trade anything in our oganaztion to get him if he was on the trading block


my proposal



to tor: kovalchuk and maybe a 7th or 8th rounder



to atl: stajan,bell,riemer,1st round pick sugolbov(throw in)


This is the equivalent to Robert Redford saying to Woody Harrelson in Indecent Proposal:

"I'll give just about anything for one night with your wife... How's about $35 and some coupons for Burger King?"

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Old
02-22-2007, 03:26 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by thedjpd View Post
I disagree entirely. A player that grows up with a team and breaks out with them, and is the face of the franchise for 3+ years doesn't just lose it becuase somebody else comes in later. Forsberg could have been a franchise player for Colorado, because of his talent and his drive - and he grew up with that franchise. Even though he was drafted by a different team, he didn't build a name for himself until he was with Colorado. Many could argue Forsberg is/was at some point a better player than Sakic - but it's still Sakic's team. That's who you associate with Colorado. Not Forsberg.

If Hossa had been playing in Atlanta all this time, and grew up with the franchise, then yes - he might have been our franchise player. But he can't come in here, even after a breakout season with any other team, regardless, and after a year become the team. It's just not how it works. And it's not what happened.
You're talking about sentimentality. Hossa is still a better player, and if I had the two of them, Hossa would be my cornerstone and not Kovalchuk. Maybe he means more to you as a fan, but practically speaking, my wagon is hitched to Hossa.

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02-22-2007, 03:42 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
You're talking about sentimentality. Hossa is still a better player, and if I had the two of them, Hossa would be my cornerstone and not Kovalchuk. Maybe he means more to you as a fan, but practically speaking, my wagon is hitched to Hossa.
Hossa is indeed a better player, overall. But I don't think it's that close offensively. Hossa is 4 years older and in his prime, and he isn't worlds ahead in terms of offensive output over Kovalchuk while playing on the same line with the only other player on the team who has more than 30 points. Hossa, in this his best year in the middle of his prime, MIGHT outscore Kovalchuk's best year at 22. And that's a MIGHT.

Hossa at 27 isn't a cornerstone anymore. He's a player you bring in to help your cornerstone that's already established. He becomes an additional franchise player to help the team that grew up with theirs and help lead them to a championship.

When Crosby hits 27, and if/when he leaves Pittsburgh and goes to a new team, he won't be that team's franchise automatically just because he signed there and he's a better player. That's not how it works.

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02-22-2007, 04:27 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
You're talking about sentimentality. Hossa is still a better player, and if I had the two of them, Hossa would be my cornerstone and not Kovalchuk. Maybe he means more to you as a fan, but practically speaking, my wagon is hitched to Hossa.
Hossa is marginally better and is also 4 years older. I'd much rather keep Kovalchuk around to see what he can do.

I also think out of the two Kovalchuk is more likely to stick around in his UFA years; I know sentimentality is not that important to athletes anymore, but I'd wager that someone who has lived/'grew up' here for 8 years is more likely to stay than someone who has only been around for 3-odd years.

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