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potential Habs- Wild rumor(proposal)

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Old
02-20-2007, 09:51 AM
  #26
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Do you guys seriously think the Wild is overpaying when we offer our captain heart and soul of this team and older brother of Mikko Koivu, and arguably a top10 defenseman in the league which is Andrei Markov who has been carrying our defense for 3 seasons now?

For a 20 goal scorer tiny 162lbs center, but an excellent rookie none the less, if we can still call him that. And a 4th pick overall who has done close to nothing since he got drafted almost 2 years ago?

Come on, you won't have Markov for this package alone. And don't tell me Min won't trade PM Bouchard because that's not what this is about. If he in fact WERE available, MTL wouldn't do this deal. You would have to add in a 1st, and we can build from there.

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02-20-2007, 11:14 AM
  #27
ceber
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Just because some teams are willing to pay a lot for a pending UFA doesn't mean all are.

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02-20-2007, 01:39 PM
  #28
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The Hab scouts have been seen at Wild games and at Houston Aero games. I'm thinking that we won't be getting a forward despite our desperate need for someone who can win face-offs. Our defense has looked a little suspect at times, but its more a case of not chipping the puck out of the zone under pressure than anything else. Here are the defensemen in order of expendability:
  1. Kurtis Foster
  2. Petteri Nummelin
  3. Martin Skoula
I don't see Burns, Carney, Johnsson and Schultz going in any deal. Fahgedaboudit. Sadly and despite the fact that I like the way Foster plays and his potential upside in the future, I would think that he'd be the most expendable of our 7 D-men.

Since Hab scouts are in Houston, maybe they're looking at D-men. We've got a decent number of defensemen down there. Belle and Reitz have seen NHL time, while it seems that Stoner will be ready for the big time soon. Would the Wild trade any of these three in a deal for Souray or Markov? I don't see why not.

As for forwards, I don't see us giving Pouliot or Voloshenko up for a play-off rental. Matt Foy and Joel Ward are certainly expendable if the Habs want a hard-working grinder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs13 View Post
Would the Wild move Boogaard?
I'm sorry ... what was the question?

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02-20-2007, 02:15 PM
  #29
Wild Bill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Next Best Thing View Post


Do you guys seriously think the Wild is overpaying when we offer our captain heart and soul of this team and older brother of Mikko Koivu, and arguably a top10 defenseman in the league which is Andrei Markov who has been carrying our defense for 3 seasons now?

For a 20 goal scorer tiny 162lbs center, but an excellent rookie none the less, if we can still call him that. And a 4th pick overall who has done close to nothing since he got drafted almost 2 years ago?

Come on, you won't have Markov for this package alone. And don't tell me Min won't trade PM Bouchard because that's not what this is about. If he in fact WERE available, MTL wouldn't do this deal. You would have to add in a 1st, and we can build from there.
Wow. Saku has barely broken the 20 goal mark twice in his career and it took 82 games both times...the only two times he's played a full season in 10+ years. We definitely don't need players like that here. I don't care how much heart he has. At least for what he'd cost.

Markov is a very nice player, but I think there is some major exagerating going on here. Top 10? You could debate it, but he would definitely not be in my top 10. So your saying this is where we would start?

PM Bouchard + Pouliot + MIN 1st
for
Markov

...and this is our starting point? Laughable to say the least.

I knew this thread would be stupid. Sorry for contributing.

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Old
02-20-2007, 03:34 PM
  #30
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You are comparing Koivu to Bouchard, OK. Nowhere in my post did I put them head to head, but Koivu at this point is /> Bouchard. Maybe in a year or two it would be the reverse of that equation but for now, let's leave it at that. Similar players and all, but Bouchard looks like a toothpick compared to Ribeiro at that weight. Not the direction our managment is taking in regards to centers. And we have no idea if he will keep progressing the way he has, there's a plateau at one point or an other, the only question is when.

Pouliot is pretty much a non factor, the only reason I included him in the trade proposal is because he is slightly interesting in the sense of he is a center with size. Again, he's done nothing in the AHL warranting his #4 selection, zip.

So you really don't think Markov, the most coveted UFA on defense next year, wouldn't normally go for something like PM.B. + Pouliot + 1st?? I'd also love to see your list of top10. I guess we should throw in our captain too...

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02-20-2007, 03:42 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Next Best Thing View Post
So you really don't think Markov, the most coveted UFA on defense next year, wouldn't normally go for something like PM.B. + Pouliot + 1st??
He's a UFA.

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Old
02-20-2007, 03:50 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big E View Post


I'm sorry ... what was the question?
Give us the boogeyman!!

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Old
02-20-2007, 04:42 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Next Best Thing View Post
You are comparing Koivu to Bouchard, OK. Nowhere in my post did I put them head to head, but Koivu at this point is /> Bouchard. Maybe in a year or two it would be the reverse of that equation but for now, let's leave it at that. Similar players and all, but Bouchard looks like a toothpick compared to Ribeiro at that weight. Not the direction our managment is taking in regards to centers. And we have no idea if he will keep progressing the way he has, there's a plateau at one point or an other, the only question is when.

Pouliot is pretty much a non factor, the only reason I included him in the trade proposal is because he is slightly interesting in the sense of he is a center with size. Again, he's done nothing in the AHL warranting his #4 selection, zip.

So you really don't think Markov, the most coveted UFA on defense next year, wouldn't normally go for something like PM.B. + Pouliot + 1st?? I'd also love to see your list of top10. I guess we should throw in our captain too...

let's all calm down here.

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Old
02-20-2007, 04:55 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Next Best Thing View Post


Do you guys seriously think the Wild is overpaying when we offer our captain heart and soul of this team and older brother of Mikko Koivu, and arguably a top10 defenseman in the league which is Andrei Markov who has been carrying our defense for 3 seasons now?

For a 20 goal scorer tiny 162lbs center, but an excellent rookie none the less, if we can still call him that. And a 4th pick overall who has done close to nothing since he got drafted almost 2 years ago?

Come on, you won't have Markov for this package alone. And don't tell me Min won't trade PM Bouchard because that's not what this is about. If he in fact WERE available, MTL wouldn't do this deal. You would have to add in a 1st, and we can build from there.
WOW is all i can say to this


we wouldnt even trade PMB for Markov strait up and you want us to add in Pouliot (A player with a big future with us) and a first round pick.

If you look at this from our view were giving up Bouchard ( only 22 or 23 years old, not nearly done developing, already putting up pretty good numbers, has a great future in front of him) Pouliot (Possible franchise player, will at the very least be a good second liner for us, putting up decent #'s on a terrable team in the AHL, worlds of potential) All that along with a first round pick and all for Koivu (A great secoond line center but is aging and not what he used to be) and Markov ( a upincoming UFA who we probly might not be able to retain)


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Old
02-20-2007, 06:50 PM
  #35
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Wow, and I thought I was a little nutty.

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Old
02-21-2007, 01:25 AM
  #36
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Hey guys ! Mtl fan here. I know people in the organisation here were pretty high on Pouliot on draft day in 05 ; how has he been doing ? Considering the Forsberg deal, could you see him being part of a rental trade :

Souray + pick
for
Pouliot + 1st in 07 + cond pick in 08 (if re-signed)

Something like that would be appealing to Risebrough ? Or does Pouliot sound untouchable ?

Any prospect on defense we should be interrested in ?

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02-21-2007, 01:40 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Hook View Post
Hey guys ! Mtl fan here. I know people in the organisation here were pretty high on Pouliot on draft day in 05 ; how has he been doing ? Considering the Forsberg deal, could you see him being part of a rental trade :

Souray + pick
for
Pouliot + 1st in 07 + cond pick in 08 (if re-signed)

Something like that would be appealing to Risebrough ? Or does Pouliot sound untouchable ?

Any prospect on defense we should be interrested in ?
You want Thelen, you can have him

pouliot is untouchable at the moment.

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02-21-2007, 02:24 AM
  #38
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Pouliot isn't untouchable...nobody is....he's far from a slam dunk prospect.

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02-21-2007, 02:50 AM
  #39
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Question for the Montreal fans. Why are you all in such a hurry to sell off your team? I know you'll have a lot of UFA's this coming summer and Huet is injured, but you are currently 8th in the East. Hardly seems to be the time to sell your roster for unproven prospects. I see names like Souray, Kovalev, Markov, Koivu thrown around, the very core of your team. Are you giving up on this year's playoff race? Because you can't be both buyers and sellers at the same time.

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02-21-2007, 04:58 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Next Best Thing View Post
You are comparing Koivu to Bouchard, OK. Nowhere in my post did I put them head to head, but Koivu at this point is /> Bouchard. Maybe in a year or two it would be the reverse of that equation but for now, let's leave it at that. Similar players and all, but Bouchard looks like a toothpick compared to Ribeiro at that weight. Not the direction our managment is taking in regards to centers. And we have no idea if he will keep progressing the way he has, there's a plateau at one point or an other, the only question is when.

Pouliot is pretty much a non factor, the only reason I included him in the trade proposal is because he is slightly interesting in the sense of he is a center with size. Again, he's done nothing in the AHL warranting his #4 selection, zip.

So you really don't think Markov, the most coveted UFA on defense next year, wouldn't normally go for something like PM.B. + Pouliot + 1st?? I'd also love to see your list of top10. I guess we should throw in our captain too...
No, all I'm saying is you are ragging on one of our best young players (PMB) when in all reallity, he is very similar to your captain in many ways, save experience. You brought up Saku ("captain heart and soul") in response probably to the original thread starter.

The game has changed. Players like Bouchard are not just excelling, but are dominating play...definitely not someone that should be moved for a rental. Markov is a fantastic young defenseman and I fully expect Habs management to do everything in their power to retain him. What you think is fair value for him, under the circumstances, is insane. Nagy's return is NOTHING compared to this and I think a first plus a marginal young player is a GREAT return for an impending UFA. Hopefully he dosen't walk and you get nothing for him.

Souray is probably more intriguing to me at this point anyways.


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Old
02-21-2007, 08:33 AM
  #41
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I don't think the Habs will move Souray. And I don't want him. We've got two guys with big slappers on our points already; I don't think that's what's ailing our powerplay. Unless Souray has hands of gold (that's a negative, good buddy) and can skate the puck in the way Bouchard does, he won't help us much on the PP, because our problem of late isn't getting shots off once we're set up. It's getting set up. And we're still doing OK over the last 10 games, so I really don't see that as an issue.


I think Montreal is after Backstrom, and is looking at our other pieces because Risebrough has thrown back some options, one of which includes a significant player in return. Backstrom + prospect for pick + prospect, is what I'm guessing the talks are around right now. But I have a lot of craaazy thoughts....

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02-21-2007, 08:53 AM
  #42
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Quote:
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I don't think the Habs will move Souray. And I don't want him. We've got two guys with big slappers on our points already; I don't think that's what's ailing our powerplay. Unless Souray has hands of gold (that's a negative, good buddy) and can skate the puck in the way Bouchard does, he won't help us much on the PP, because our problem of late isn't getting shots off once we're set up. It's getting set up. And we're still doing OK over the last 10 games, so I really don't see that as an issue.


I think Montreal is after Backstrom, and is looking at our other pieces because Risebrough has thrown back some options, one of which includes a significant player in return. Backstrom + prospect for pick + prospect, is what I'm guessing the talks are around right now. But I have a lot of craaazy thoughts....
Please, do share with us

I don't know if we are trading Backstrom. Bob Mason said last night that Manny should return early next week. The deadline is also early next week. That's awfully tight if you ask me. We'd have to trade Backstrom without really knowing what shape Manny is in, all in the midst of a very tough stretch against key conference opponents. I don't know, seems a bit risky.

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02-21-2007, 08:58 AM
  #43
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am i the only one on this board who thinks josh harding would thrive and not crumble if asked to carry the load.

Not saying it's ideal, but I think he'd be just as good as manny or backs...

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02-21-2007, 09:07 AM
  #44
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Question for the Montreal fans. Why are you all in such a hurry to sell off your team? I know you'll have a lot of UFA's this coming summer and Huet is injured, but you are currently 8th in the East. Hardly seems to be the time to sell your roster for unproven prospects. I see names like Souray, Kovalev, Markov, Koivu thrown around, the very core of your team. Are you giving up on this year's playoff race? Because you can't be both buyers and sellers at the same time.
Neither Habs or Wilds is selling.
If there is a trade, it'll be a roster player for roster player deal. A mid-range prospect may throw in either way.
It should be something like this
Gainey "Hey I want XXX from your roster, on my roster YYY is available and so as ZZZ in the farm"
Wild went to do their scouting.
Risebourgh (spelling?) "Hey I want XXX from your roster, on my roster YYY is available and so as ZZZ in the farm"
Habs went do their scouting...

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02-21-2007, 09:10 AM
  #45
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am i the only one on this board who thinks josh harding would thrive and not crumble if asked to carry the load.

Not saying it's ideal, but I think he'd be just as good as manny or backs...
Very possible. He could be this year's Cam Ward if given a shot, but... Now is not a good time to carry out experiments, especially in goal, unless you pretty much have no choice.

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02-21-2007, 10:31 AM
  #46
ceber
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #16 View Post
Please, do share with us

I don't know if we are trading Backstrom. Bob Mason said last night that Manny should return early next week. The deadline is also early next week. That's awfully tight if you ask me. We'd have to trade Backstrom without really knowing what shape Manny is in, all in the midst of a very tough stretch against key conference opponents. I don't know, seems a bit risky.
Could be risky, yes. But I (this is one of those thoughts..) think Manny could be playing now. I think they're sitting him to ensure he gets plenty of healing time in anticipation that he will carry the load the rest of the way and through the playoffs. A nice side-effect is that Backstrom is being showcased for several games for any scouts who happen to want to look. The staff is getting plenty of looks at Harding in practice, and they feel he's ready to be our backup. (again, just one of those crazy thoughts.)

I don't think a deal is something Risebrough considers a must-do. I think he sees the situation as an opportunity to take advantage of if the deal is right. I know a lot of MTL fans say goaltending is not an issue, but if the scouts are watching Backstrom they must know he's worth considering if he's available.

I think it would have to be a pretty nice deal to take the risk though. Why go into the playoffs with just one sure-starter when you can have two?

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02-21-2007, 10:51 AM
  #47
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If Markov being part of the deal ... Gaborik should come on other way ...

to min: Markov, Milroy and pick

to Mtl :Gaborik and Pouliot

If you want Markov you have to paying for at least wait till 1 of july he became ufa

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02-21-2007, 11:15 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grognon View Post
If Markov being part of the deal ... Gaborik should come on other way ...

to min: Markov, Milroy and pick

to Mtl :Gaborik and Pouliot

If you want Markov you have to paying for at least wait till 1 of july he became ufa
WOW! This guy is nuts...he doesn't speak for all us Habs fans....wow...what a horrible deal for Minny..

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Old
02-21-2007, 11:18 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #16 View Post
Question for the Montreal fans. Why are you all in such a hurry to sell off your team? I know you'll have a lot of UFA's this coming summer and Huet is injured, but you are currently 8th in the East. Hardly seems to be the time to sell your roster for unproven prospects. I see names like Souray, Kovalev, Markov, Koivu thrown around, the very core of your team. Are you giving up on this year's playoff race? Because you can't be both buyers and sellers at the same time.
I think that's because we know we won't go far in the playoffs either ways. And we need to rebuild to creat a better team. On the other hand, the Wild are probably about one or two players away from the final spot. Shelton Sourey and Saku Koivu would provide that for you.

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02-21-2007, 11:20 AM
  #50
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I'll be disappointed if we trade anything worthwhile to acquire Souray. He's not a magic bullet for this team, IMO.

Here are some great quotes from the GM meeting:

Quote:
Doug Risebrough can relate. He's here in Naples as neither buyer nor seller. "I'm hunting for bargains," the Minnesota GM says, only semi-jokingly. He figures to have as good a handle on the new cap system as any of the 30 other NHL GMs, but still, next Tuesday is only trading deadline No. 2 under the new system. As GMs continue to talk about swapping draft picks and prospects for unrestricted rental players who have no intention of sticking around past this season, Risebrough would just as soon learn from others' mistakes as make a bunch himself.

"Certainly, the future is starting to become apparent to many GMs ," he said. "We came out of that work stoppage in '04 and had a ton of guys to sign. Last year, the cap went up significantly," loosening the screws on GMs a bit. "Now, I really feel that a lot of guys are saying, 'There's a guy on my team, and if he keeps playing at this level it's going to cost me that much? Can I afford it?' The money issues are more critical."
Quote:
"You can't just give away your two or three best prospects and take a one-year run at a Stanley Cup. This thing starts all over again in September," warned Detroit GM Ken Holland. He spent several minutes in private conversation with St. Louis GM Larry Pleau, a major seller here with Guerin, Keith Tkachuk, Jamal Mayers and possibly Eric Brewer, whom Pleau would rather sign.

"At the same time," Holland continued, "when you think you've got a chance ... do you [trade] one of your top prospects? Do you do your fourth best prospect? That's what you have to worry about. I always go with 60%. If you have 10 guys you think are going to be players, six will make it. If you only have three prospects and two are going to make it, I wouldn't be sitting here talking too many deals."
Both from http://www.canada.com/topics/sports/...7bf80f&k=14210

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