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When did Tom Renney turn into a genius?

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Old
02-16-2007, 12:59 PM
  #26
DutchShamrock
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
hes not a genius, it took him 2/3rds of the season to do what we all told him to do.
That's the one thing that sould tone down the compliments. Yes, he is doing a great job right now. He is making the most of his lineup. He is putting guys in the right positions. They are playing focused, smart hockey.

But it's February.

People have been suggesting Cullen on the point since October. People have been suggesting Straka as center since at least the end of December.

The team started playing better when Girardi and Ortmeyer got into the lineup. They have been playing fantastic since Avery and Dupuis were acquired.

I'll give him credit for the Hossa move, not much else. Most of the good things have fallen into his lap (like finally rolling 4 lines, but that is because of the trades -- not his fault but not to his credit ether.) He's doing a good job now so I don't want to rail him right now, but let's hold off on the tickertape parade until at least April.

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02-16-2007, 01:04 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by dave4 View Post
OK I've been Renney's most vocal critic, and I'm still not convinced he'll lead us to the playoffs, or coach well if we do make the playoffs. But I have to give the man credit for how he's handled the team the last week, when we were in danger of falling of the face of the playoff earth. And it's not just the winning streak, I was calling for Renney to be fired even during the five game winning streak in December, because I thought he had nothing to do with it.

It's only four games, but SO FAR he has handled Avery perfectly. Something tells me when things are going bad Avery may go from driving the other team crazy to driving fans and teammates crazy, but so far Avery and Renney have done everything right. Putting Avery with Shanahan was obvious, but Renney has missed some obvious things in the past. This time he got it right.

I've also been critical of Renney's hockey sense, as it seemed like every decision he made blew up in his face. Recently it's been the opposite, most every decision he's made has paid off for him.

If you had told me two weeks ago Lundqvist would play every game, including back-to-back nights, I would have told you it was a mistake. Especially after what happened last year. So far it's not a mistake, Lundqvist seems to be getting stronger.

He finally put Cullen back on the power play, and it seems like that's helped Cullen's coinfidence both on the power play and at even strength.

We were all wondering here about tinkering with a lineup that blew out two pretty good teams the last two games, but he replaced Prucha with Dupuis on the third line and Dupuis played well and scored a goal.

He's stuck with Malik when I was leading the call for him to be traded, and Malik had an outstanding game last night. It was just one game, but Malik was impressive.

The new top two lines have worked out perfectly so far. He seems to have revitalized both Hossa and Shanahan.

Renney seems to have the whole team ready to play now, right from the opening shift. I've been critical of Renney when the team has come out flat, I have to give him props when they take it to the other team right from the opening faceoff.

Three games does not make a season, but if we'd lost the last three games we'd all be singing quite the different tune about a lot of things.
I thought we established Renney was useless and an all around bad human being. Just like every coach in the NHL.

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02-16-2007, 01:04 PM
  #28
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Overstating things one way, then overstating them the other way. Renney's not shown himself to be a hockey genius, nor has he shown himself to be an incompetent.

I've always thought that he's a good coach, though some of his decisions (Blair Betts 2nd-line centre?) have boggled my mind. Then again, I would never have thought Hossa could play with Jagr and Straka, but he's been brilliant. Certainly my pick for the most impressive player in last-night's game.

Also with Avery, I'm right there with dave4 in that I'll wait until I've seen how he reacts to a slump before I give him the all-clear, but I was a vocal and harsh critic of trading for him before the deal and I'm very impressed with how Renney has used him.

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02-16-2007, 01:06 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PanniniClaus View Post
I thought we established Renney was useless and an all around bad human being. Just like every coach in the NHL.
I think Renney's problem is that he actually seems like a nice guy. Maybe he's cranky because of his 'flu, so that's why the Rangers played like someone lit a fire under their a***s last night...

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02-16-2007, 01:13 PM
  #30
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Wow win 3 in a row and people start acting like we've got the brightest mind in hockey.

Long term success, like always will come down to Renney's ability to adjust, something he has struggled with.

On the other hand, he does have a little more to work with now than he did a few weeks which helps his cause.

At the end of the day I think Renney is a coach has some strong points and some major flaws to go with them.

I don't think he deserves all the blame for the team's failures or all the credit when the team decides to play well.

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02-16-2007, 01:40 PM
  #31
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That's about it, Edge...

'when the team decides to play well...'. So much is tied to how Lundqvist, Jagr, Shanny and maybe a couple others play. If they show up, it seems to permeate throughout the lineup. If they don't, it's usually not good.

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02-16-2007, 01:47 PM
  #32
Larry Melnyk
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
'when the team decides to play well...'. So much is tied to how Lundqvist, Jagr, Shanny and maybe a couple others play. If they show up, it seems to permeate throughout the lineup. If they don't, it's usually not good.
But he also has to put the players and combination of players in the best position to succeed..He wasn't doing that for the longest while..He is now, and again, whether it's becasue he fianlly smartened up or finally felt confident in the mix of players is debateable..Bottom line is he's fianlly doing it just like we told him to..

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02-16-2007, 01:51 PM
  #33
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I agree with that...

there were ways to still screw it up. We could be looking at Betts playing with Avery and Ortmeyer and Cullen centering Dupuis and Shanny, with Hollweg centering a fourth line, etc.

Of course I am glad he's taken our advice, after seeing his team get knocked out of the top 8 for the playoffs and making sure it's a dogfight that may leave guys like Shanny, Jagr and Lundqvist with no gas in the end. For these past three games, he is doing the right thing and I cannot complain; except I'm still irked how we got here.

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02-16-2007, 01:57 PM
  #34
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This team has good streaks before.

Now whether it can last is another question.

There are still some concerns out there and alot is still riding on Lundqvist staying strong and hopefully not burning out. You're looking at a guy who now is going to have to be this team's Brodeur and play just about EVERY minute. He's certainly talented enough for the job, the problem is the team that's still in front of him.

I'm still not entirely sold on the scroing right now, especially if the PP hits a snag I still don't see reliable enough scoring come from beyond the first line.

Ultimately though the Rangers control their own destiny. They know what they have to do to be successful, they are going on a nice home stretch, simply put the ball is in their court to make a big push.

Renney has made better decisions lately but he also has better options with Avery and Dupuis on this team. That can't be overlooked either.

I've faulted Renney this season but I've also stated that there were a lot of times I didn't think the team had the players to really improve certain things as well.

If this team can get Avery playing like a 20/50 point player and get Dupuis back to a 15-20 goal player that's a bit upgrade over having Hall and nothing from a week ago.

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02-16-2007, 02:01 PM
  #35
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Funny you talk about streaks...

In December they won 5 straight - beating teams like Ottawa, PITT and Dallas, then went on to lose 6 or 7 straight.

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02-16-2007, 02:06 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
hes not a genius, it took him 2/3rds of the season to do what we all told him to do.
Is that so?

Bench Malik and play Pck. Immonen on the 2nd line. Prucha on the 1st (hey whats defense?). The list can be made long!

Ohh, and yes, how can he be so stuipid that he plays Hossa over Dawes???

(j/k)

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02-16-2007, 02:15 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Now whether it can last is another question.
I don't think we can expect to make any damage in the PO's if we have to keep hustle like we are right now untill the 8th of April thats for sure...

The faster we can get up over the line the better IMO. I don't think playing this close to max is optimal during a NHL regular season.

Good teams stay in all games, often on cruise controll, and got the tools (PP/firepower) to win them. If they get a 2-0 lead, they give it all to make it 3-0. If its thight they wait to the last 10 minutes.

If we go this hard, there will defenitly come bad stretches, and we can't really afford that either.

If we can get in, it will be easier to set a better level.

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02-16-2007, 06:31 PM
  #38
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I think Jagr saying he has to step it up during the all-star break is the main reason for the turnaround. As jagr goes so goes the rangers. Jagr has life and a jump in his step and low and behold the team does too.

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Old
02-16-2007, 07:39 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Mugerya View Post
But it's February.

People have been suggesting Cullen on the point since October. People have been suggesting Straka as center since at least the end of December.

The team started playing better when Girardi and Ortmeyer got into the lineup. They have been playing fantastic since Avery and Dupuis were acquired.
A genius would not have taken this long to put Cullen into an identical situation that made him successfull on a Cup winning team. Nor would a genius need many games to figure out that neither Krog nor Betts are second line centers. Nor would a genius take that long to try to pull a younger defenseman in from Hartford when the vets are clearly stinking up the joint.

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02-17-2007, 12:08 AM
  #40
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Renney made the changes we've been asking for about 2-3 months after we asked him to make them. Renney and his defenders will respond that the team lacked a Sean Avery to make these line changes work, but he still should have utilized the personnel he had to get the maximum production out of them and he didn't. Avery or no Avery, he was too stubborn. Lets not forget about hardly playing Prucha, the Nigel Dawes experiment, and basically his double standard with youngsters and veterans. When a veteran made a mistake, he didn't pay the consequences(sans Nylander's highsticking penalty), but when a youngster made a mistake(or didn't, even) he was on the 4th line or demoted. Whatever, I like what he's done lately. Lets hope he keeps this up.

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02-17-2007, 12:11 AM
  #41
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The difference between that five game winning streak and the current three game winning streak is that the Rangers really weren't playing to well and were winning in large part due to fantastic goaltending. The signs that a meltdown was about to occur were visible. This time, the entire team is actually playing well. I think it's important to mention the Devils are starting to shown signs of slippage. They've lost two at home this week and play most of their games on the road in March. It may be the Penguins who end up taking this division. If we don't, I hope that is the case.

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02-17-2007, 12:52 AM
  #42
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These are anything but genius moves.

Avery with Shanny: If you couldn't see this one coming, you were blind.

Breaking up the top line: This needed to happen for a while.

Breaking up Rozsival and Malik: Another move that was inevitable, given how bad they were playing together.

Line Matching: He finally wakes up somewhat, and matches lines here and there.

The one thing I will give him is that he's keeping his players on the same page. If you ask me, it's gotta be pretty tough to do that. And now, it seems that they're playing with life again. Tom's gotta be doing something right. I still don't think he's a good coach, but right now, he's pressing some of the right buttons.

Let's just see how well we do when Weekes comes back in net. He will have to eventually play a game or two here and there so we don't burn Hank out for the playoffs like last year.

Sather gets a solid B+ so far in trades. He's made small moves, but the right ones to improve the bottom 6, instead of mortaging the future for a big name rental, like he would have done years ago. Avery and Dupuis may not be big additions, but Avery is far and away an upgrade over Jason Ward, and anything is better than that useless piece of crap, Adam Hall, who could have had me fooled for the Cowardly Lion from The Wizard Of Oz. I have a feeling that Eric Brewer will be a Ranger by the trade deadline, after seeing what Stuart went for. That sent the bench mark for defenders, and I think JD will be glad to help the Rangers out, being that he won't want to lose Brewer and get nothing in return. Depending on what happens in the next few games, I see Brewer being a Ranger if things look good.

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02-17-2007, 03:23 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
Breaking up Rozsival and Malik: Another move that was inevitable, given how bad they were playing together.
Hm, getting ahead of ourself here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
Line Matching: He finally wakes up somewhat, and matches lines here and there.
Actually, Renney have always matched lines. Though against NJD, he haven't wanted to do it at the same extent they do, and there are no middleground. Though its a myth that Renney aren't matching lines. We often match our 1st line against the other teams 1st line, or try to sneak our 1st against their 4th on home ice ect.

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02-17-2007, 03:27 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
A genius would not have taken this long to put Cullen into an identical situation that made him successfull on a Cup winning team. Nor would a genius need many games to figure out that neither Krog nor Betts are second line centers. Nor would a genius take that long to try to pull a younger defenseman in from Hartford when the vets are clearly stinking up the joint.
Yeah, but what forwards would we have on the 2nd unit? Hossa-Prucha-Ward??? With Hossa and Prucha both struggling?

Nah, don't try to rewrite history here. Avery, Hossa turning red hot after Renney's coaching, and other factorys have given Renney a possiblity to have a 2nd unit on the PP, with Cullen on the point, before he were needed downlow...

And atleast give Renney credit for Hossa. I mean allot of us wanted Dawes in for him after camp. Or Callahan in midseason.

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02-17-2007, 04:55 AM
  #45
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frankly, i think of his as an idiot for not doing these things sooner. The same successful PP unit from last year. A second North American styled PP with Cullen on the Point. These are things that should have been implemented from the very first day IMO.

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02-17-2007, 06:34 AM
  #46
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Renney wasted 2/3s a season to finally realize you cant only have 1 scoring line. We have been saying since at least December to move Nylander off the Jagr line and why was Cullen good enough to play the point on the power play for the Stanley Cup Champions and not for the Rangers.

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02-17-2007, 08:21 AM
  #47
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i think all the gloom and doom on renney people should start putting their applications around the nhl for next season being that they think they new things before he did.
people also forget that no matter how bad this team played at times this year they still were playing over .500 hockey which is better then they did for a long time prior to his arrival.
and people also forget the man coached this team to the playoffs for the first time in how many years?
and considering the season has 25 games left and the book is not closed yet for this season its still very possible we can make the playoffs for a second year in a row and once again when was the last time that happened?
i also find its such a joke that here on a ranger board there is so much negativity about this team when they lose as well as when the win and that is the very reason why i have been visiting this board for a long time and only recently became a member and still dont bother to post much.
are the team bashers real fans or are they people who just always need something to cry about and if so it probably pisses you off more when they win because you now have to invent something to complain about.
and time in and time again the excuse is i just love this team so much man that all i want them to do is win and what ever it takes.
well you know what one part of what it takes is to support the team is it takes standing by your team through good times and bad and not jumping on a player or a coach because of a line change or a bad pass and and sending out a lynch mob for someones head.
so all the ranger fans that bash the team they claim they love and come up with your trade scenarios for the players like jagr and shanny and fire the coach and get rid of the gm go back and sit in front of your tv's playing your video games and go back to your fantasy boards and go convince yourself that by doing that and reading the daily paper makes you some great hockey mind where when you come to these board and put your opinions down like you do that it only makes you look like a fool.
and i am not knocking all of the people here because i have read many posts on this board by people who are not only great ranger fans but very well in tune to the game of hockey as well as the ranger team but to all the ranger fans that are constantly bashing the team they claim they love just rember the old saying opinions are just like aholes and we all got one and it does not mean i want to see your ahole either and if you love the team as much as you claim now is a good time to show it.

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02-17-2007, 09:34 AM
  #48
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Renney became smart when the upper mgmt address the weaknesses on the forward lines. Renney to a large degree was hamstrung by the acquistions that were made during the offseason and that were incomplete and left team with too many duplicates and not enough depth and versatility.

The other smart thing he did do, and again this goes back to filling the viods, was that he put 2 PP units together and separated Shannahan & Jagr. It was painfully apparent that they have different styles. Together they were pulling the PP unit apart, left side shooting, right side passing. Separate it is very hard to defend. Cullen is being used properly, 3rd line and on the PP shooting and passing. Notice how much more productive he is? Confidence is the biggest part of any players game whether it be a scrub or a superstar.

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02-17-2007, 09:49 AM
  #49
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The funny thing is I was watching either Hockey Night in NY Live or MSGNY and Cullen said how he feels more comfortable on the 3rd line and playing the point. You would think someone who have gotten that out of him earlier on in the season lol.

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02-17-2007, 10:17 AM
  #50
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Renney is clearly no genius, we've been calling for cullen on the point since the first game, i have to admit i was wrong in thinking cullen (with his playmaking ability and speed) could be a 2nd line center with shanahan and prucha, but after the first 15 games this team was playing fairly well and shanahan was on a roll, so it took longer to notice that cullen was not suited for that role

but his reluctance to break up the top line, something that many on this board had been caling for months, im glad he did that and hossa has been working very well with straka and jagr, when i just would have put prucha there to get him jump started for the 07 czech line, but renney has been right

his treatment of young players at times has baffled me: pock, dawes, Immo, prucha, and callahan. there is no way pock will be back, he will go to another team and a be a solid 5-6 d-man possibly even a 3-4, dawes and immo were given time on decent lines then sent to the 4th lines to then be demoted, callahan was never given a chance and i just think renney lacks faith in prucha, hes not a 4th line energy guy to be on that line with hollweg and betts, its a waste of a playmaker/goal scorer, he should be switched with ortmeyer

also his inability to bench veteran players for poor performance and his inability to create a 2nd powerplay unit, we finally have a 2nd powerplay unit but if things start to go bad due to lazy play from veterans will renney bench them or will they continue to get a pass?

renney has started to right this ship, but to be honest these were moves that most posters on this board had advocated, and if we can figure out, renney should be able to since coaching the rangers is not our job its his

i want to see how he handles the rest of feb, he has made some good strides, but there is quite some time left in this season

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