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Andreas Dackell is... Under-rated!

View Poll Results: How would YOU evaluate Andreas Dackell's work so far this season?
Good 16 29.63%
Satisfactory 34 62.96%
Disappointing 1 1.85%
Throw 'im in the garbage! 3 5.56%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-10-2003, 12:32 AM
  #1
Necrophile
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Andreas Dackell is... Under-rated?

**Please answer the poll before reading to avoid bias.**



Well with all this talk about over-rated players going around, I thought I'd shine a little light on your day by reminding you that Dackell is doing a good job.

I'm not a fervent disciple of Dackell, mind you, but I have noticed that he has been consistent all year, even managing to bring his game to the next level in the past few games. We now see him controlling the puck exceptionally well in the offensive zone and creating some decent scoring chances, while continuing his good defensive and PK work.

I feel he's gotten a fairly bad rap on this board (it's worse on the french ones, believe me), but I feel that given what's expected of him, he has played at or above expectations this season, even managing a respectable 4 goals, not to mention many more scoring chances! He may not be back in Montreal next year, but I believe that at the end of the season - if he keeps this up - Andreas can say to himself: mission accomplished.


Last edited by Necrophile: 12-10-2003 at 12:38 AM.
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Old
12-10-2003, 12:53 AM
  #2
Medicine Twin
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He's playing like he always has. It's just that people here, and on the French board I guess, have failed to notice or give him his due. I'm not a Dackell disciple either but I've always felt he was a good 3rd or 4th line forward. Good speed, great in his own end, good on the PK, probably our most tenacious forechecker, can chip in offensively (30+ pts. 7 seasons in a row before last year). People here used to always say, and still do, that Sundstrom is the better player so we don't need Dackell but the fact that Sunny can also play on the left side is what they seem to forget... and he and Dackell have actually played well together on the same line going back to last season (Sunny - JJ - Dacks).

And no... I'm not suggesting that JJ should center that line when he gets back. Begin's physical presence and energy seems to be a great fit for them.

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Old
12-10-2003, 01:24 AM
  #3
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Once you get past the fact hes just a checker and penalty killer, not a scoring line player he looks better. He has a well defined role with the team in which he fits well. That type goes easily underrated, because most people only notice PKers whey they make a mistake.

He has been pretty consistent over the years, which makes him easy to coach, they always know what to expect from him. While hes not tough, hes also very disiplined rarely takes needless penalties? Physically hes at his best close to the boards where leverage means more than brute force. At 5'11" 195lbs he has strong body type making him durable - and hes hardly ever hurt - which btw was the propable reason he was acquired. Everything I've read about Dackell tells me hes has a good team player mentality. Not a vocal leader, but one of the first guys to follow the lead.
Having level headed veterans in a room with several young players is a good thing imo.

Dackell is propably caught in the numbers game next summer. Habs have bigger younger and cheaper alternatives to him... but until then he will do just fine.

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12-10-2003, 01:28 AM
  #4
Mike8
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I feel Dackell's overrated because many people seem to believe he's a player that would fit in on a contending or playoff club on a bottom six forward role. I like Dackell. He works hard, he's small but has carved himself a decent NHL career. I was pleased that Savard picked him up for so little, and he has served a purpose in Montreal.

I don't think he'd have an NHL career if not for expansion, though. I find people claim that Dackell does those little things that are missed when it isn't the case. Dackell is a solid player to have on the PK. He doesn't complain, even when benched. He's a player that has a good amount of hockey sense, plays the neutral zone well, can push turnovers and is quick enough to keep up with a fast transition team.

But Dackell's not consistent. He goes through many games where he's a soft perimeter player. If he's paired up with the right players, with some grit element added to his line, he starts making things happen as we've seen in recent games. Against bigger teams with strong defensive systems, Dackell will more often than not be manhandled.

His game isn't strength, grit, or stellar defensive play on even strength. He really is a penalty killing specialist who won't hurt you on the ice even strength and can cycle the puck if he's placed in a role where others can handle the dirty work.

And this is where I find Dackell's overrated: people feel he's a strong defensive player five on five. In the neutral zone, he's good. He can force some turnovers. In the defensive zone, he doesn't have the strength or grit to win battles along the boards when it counts, he doesn't block shots and he can't be a part of a system that collapses and keeps the opposition to the perimeter through sheer strength and will. He's limited in his abilities defensively and his positioning isn't good enough to compensate for his limitations.

At this point I would say Dackell's waiver wire material that wouldn't be picked up by many teams due to his salary.

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Old
12-10-2003, 01:35 AM
  #5
Mike8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Medicine Twin
People here used to always say, and still do, that Sundstrom is the better player so we don't need Dackell but the fact that Sunny can also play on the left side is what they seem to forget... and he and Dackell have actually played well together on the same line going back to last season (Sunny - JJ - Dacks).
I think you're missing the point on why people say this. Some people (myself included) feel Sundstrom and Dackell fulfill the same roles, only Sundstrom does it better, but there's little point in having two bottom six forwards filling the same roles.

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12-10-2003, 03:25 AM
  #6
Darz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8
Some people (myself included) feel Sundstrom and Dackell fulfill the same roles, only Sundstrom does it better.
Not this year. Imo, Dackell has outperformed Sundstrom is pretty much every facet of the game.

Dackell is a good foot soldier. If he developed a scoring touch he could be more valuable, but since that ain't going to happen......

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12-10-2003, 03:27 AM
  #7
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Dackell is competent, little more than that in my opinion. The problem is that he is of more use on a team that has an outstanding core of top 6 forwards. In Montral, that isn't the case so we become frustrated with lack of 3rd line production. On a top[ tier team however, they most often have so much cash tied up in their top 6 that they prefer not to pay a veteran on the bottom 6.

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Old
12-10-2003, 03:30 AM
  #8
Mike8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darz
Not this year. Imo, Dackell has outperformed Sundstrom is pretty much every facet of the game.

Dackell is a good foot soldier. If he developed a scoring touch he could be more valuable, but since that ain't going to happen......
No doubt you're right here. Dackell has shown the effort, tenacity, and willingness to perform under any circumstances that Sundstrom has not.

I do feel Sundstrom has been miscast, but I think I've repeated myself on that a few dozen times already... :p

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12-10-2003, 03:39 AM
  #9
Bob Bastards
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Since Begin take Juneau place at center Dackel (and Sunstrom by the way) look like another man. He is more willing to chip offensivly and it did wonder on is overall play. Since 3 games I am quite happy with the way he play, before that I was willing to dump him for a bag of pucks...
One thing I must say and he is doing it since he came play for us is that he have a way to work along the board that is really efficient. He never seem to lose a battle, I don't know what is trick is but if I was the coach I think I would take him and make him teach is trick to the other player. He is quite good in this area, other then that he is a good third/fouth line defensive specialist that need a Begin type center to have a good year. If he stay on the same line as Begin, I am quite happy with him.

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Old
12-10-2003, 06:30 AM
  #10
Howie Morenz
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He started playing better once Juneau went down. Hmmm... Could Begin's hussle and agressiveness have something to do with Dack's play? Stay tuned.

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12-10-2003, 06:45 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howie Morenz
He started playing better once Juneau went down. Hmmm... Could Begin's hussle and agressiveness have something to do with Dack's play? Stay tuned.
Well Dackell and Juneau had a pretty good stretch early season... both chipping almost point per game for the first 6-7 games, remember? They cooled off propably because of Juneau's hurting back slowed him down, to the point he is now.

Well of course it helps to have physical character like Begin there... much like Kilger was there in that memorable Boston series (Juneau included).

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12-10-2003, 06:59 AM
  #12
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Ok, is playing much better with Begin. Not a huge fan of him but don't dislike him either.

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12-10-2003, 07:16 AM
  #13
Guy Caballero
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I've flipflopped a few times on Dackell during his tenure with the Habs.

He's been a very good defensive forward for us at times, killing penalties efectively and teaming up well with whoever the checking-line center happens to be. However, he seems to disappear for long stretches and doesn't seem to work hard enough to get himself out of his funks. It seems like he always needs a jumpstart from another player to get him back into form. At the end of last season he was doing nothing. He was completely invisible. Then this season Juneau starts off playing great defensive hockey and Dackell seems to complement him perfectly. Then Juneau starts to slow down and Dackell goes right along with him.

Fast forward 20 games or so and Juneau goes down with injury. Begin replaces him and more than holds his own centering the third line. Lo and behold, suddenly Dackell is revived, playing great defensive hockey once again and chipping in offense as well.

My conclusion is that he completely lacks leadership. He can be an effective role player at times, but he's not a guy you can count on. Ditto Sundstrom. Notice how when Sundstrom played with Ricci he was great. On the Habs he's been invisible until very recently, when paired with Begin.

Carrying too many guys like Dackell and Sundstrom was what killed us throughout the late 90s. We need more guys like Bulis and Begin -- foot soldiers, road warriors, guys with intensity who don't need strong linemates in order for them to play as hard as they can. Those are "Gainey" players.


Last edited by Guy Caballero: 12-10-2003 at 07:19 AM.
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Old
12-10-2003, 08:10 AM
  #14
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Dackell consistently wins battles along the boards. How many of our forwards can you say that about? Sundstrom for example must think the rink dimensions are 50 feet less in each direction.

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Old
12-10-2003, 09:06 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Caballero
I've flipflopped a few times on Dackell during his tenure with the Habs.

He's been a very good defensive forward for us at times, killing penalties efectively and teaming up well with whoever the checking-line center happens to be. However, he seems to disappear for long stretches and doesn't seem to work hard enough to get himself out of his funks. It seems like he always needs a jumpstart from another player to get him back into form. At the end of last season he was doing nothing. He was completely invisible. Then this season Juneau starts off playing great defensive hockey and Dackell seems to complement him perfectly. Then Juneau starts to slow down and Dackell goes right along with him.

Fast forward 20 games or so and Juneau goes down with injury. Begin replaces him and more than holds his own centering the third line. Lo and behold, suddenly Dackell is revived, playing great defensive hockey once again and chipping in offense as well.

My conclusion is that he completely lacks leadership. He can be an effective role player at times, but he's not a guy you can count on. Ditto Sundstrom. Notice how when Sundstrom played with Ricci he was great. On the Habs he's been invisible until very recently, when paired with Begin.

Carrying too many guys like Dackell and Sundstrom was what killed us throughout the late 90s. We need more guys like Bulis and Begin -- foot soldiers, road warriors, guys with intensity who don't need strong linemates in order for them to play as hard as they can. Those are "Gainey" players.
Very interesting point. We can also point Kilger, always playing well with Koivu, at least the first 3-4 games then fade down. Audette, whose confidence seem SO inconsistent, no leadership whatsoever. Perreault, of course, is kind of the antithesis of the C.

While not as much of a problem, Zednik has trouble with leadership too. Remember when Koivu was hurt ? When he plays with Koivu, he works harder, but no Koivu and he takes alot of nights off. He seems unmotivated at times, which is frustrating to see.

Ryder, Begin, Souray, Ward and even Komisarek are refreshing to see. Youth who plays with hustle and determination. They ARE leaders and I hope they'll wear an A in the near future, and who knows, perhaps a C ?

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Old
12-10-2003, 10:03 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob ********
Since Begin take Juneau place at center Dackel (and Sunstrom by the way) look like another man. He is more willing to chip offensivly and it did wonder on is overall play. Since 3 games I am quite happy with the way he play, before that I was willing to dump him for a bag of pucks...
One thing I must say and he is doing it since he came play for us is that he have a way to work along the board that is really efficient. He never seem to lose a battle, I don't know what is trick is but if I was the coach I think I would take him and make him teach is trick to the other player. He is quite good in this area, other then that he is a good third/fouth line defensive specialist that need a Begin type center to have a good year. If he stay on the same line as Begin, I am quite happy with him.
Your post pretty much sums up how I feel about him too.

You really have to appreciate the way he can hold onto the puck in the offensive zone. And I think the third line is doing great together: although Dackell did well with JJ, I think he's doing better with Juneau.

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