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Single Greatest NHL Season of All Time

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Old
02-20-2007, 02:14 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canucksfan View Post
Bobby Orr's season in 69-70. As a defencemen he led the league in points with 120 and no one else had 100. He was top ten in goal scoring with 33 goals. He won the Conne Smythe that year, the Hart Trophy, Art Ross and the Norris Trophy.
I believe he was a +123 that season as well.
insane.

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Old
02-20-2007, 03:02 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willus3 View Post
Why don't you post a season rather than being a jackass?
Lemieux 1992-1993.

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Old
02-20-2007, 03:29 AM
  #28
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1994-95 Eric Lindros

Season was already shortened by lockout, but he missed a few games....

46GP 29G 41A 70Pts and 136 PIM, plus 27 rating. Hart Trophy, Lester B. Pearson, and tied for the Art Ross, in less games than Jagr played.

Nobody dominated a single season like Lindros did that year. And I don't care if you bring up Gretzky's 215 pts.... There was a mission Lindros was on, and nobody would stop him. In both games he faced Patrick Roy - he scored a hat trick, there was no goalie to stop him either.

And honestly find a random tape - even if he didn't score a point in the game of Lindros in 94/95, and grab a random Lemieux, Gretzky, Orr, whoever. Nobody ran an entire game on their own merit in the NHL like Lindros did.

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Old
02-20-2007, 03:30 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by ClarkeIsGoneDotCom View Post
I believe he was a +123 that season as well.
insane.

God bless Bobby Orr and all. But this was a 6 team league.

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Old
02-20-2007, 04:21 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raoul Duke View Post
God bless Bobby Orr and all. But this was a 6 team league.
1. It was a 12 team league.
2. 6 teams means each team is better. No bad goalies, defensive depth for everyone, role two scoring lines and two excellent checking lines.

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Old
02-20-2007, 06:00 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
You can't have it both ways. If you want to compare Orr to forwards, then you need to compare him to forwards. Orr won the scoring title by 21%. How exactly is that the same thing as Gretzky's 69% margin of victory?

Comparing Orr to defensemen only is not the same thing. If I took the time to compare Gretzky to defensemen only, the numbers would be staggering as well.
If I may state the obvious, Orr was a forward who happened to be excellent defensively.

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Old
02-20-2007, 12:01 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
I was comparing something completely different than you were. I was comparing Gretzky's point totals to every other player in the NHL. His scoring title was the biggest margin of victory in the history of the NHL.

You came in, compared Orr to other defensemen in the league to declare his 1970 season as the greatest ever. Then you referenced my post directly.

You compared something completely different to my post. I didn't need to qualify anything because I clearly explained what I was talking about. You decided to skew things and compare apples with oranges so, your post probably could have used some clarification. Even with more explanation, you were comparing something completely different.
Well, actually yes, your post should have come with a caveat. You would be one of the very few who thinks it makes sense to compare a forward to a defenseman. How do goalies make out offensively against forwards? Comparing them at their relative positions makes much more sense. Whether you see it or not is irrelevant to me. I cited your post as I wanted people to realize your claim was not entirely accurate.

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Old
02-20-2007, 04:09 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willus3 View Post
Well, actually yes, your post should have come with a caveat. You would be one of the very few who thinks it makes sense to compare a forward to a defenseman. How do goalies make out offensively against forwards? Comparing them at their relative positions makes much more sense. Whether you see it or not is irrelevant to me. I cited your post as I wanted people to realize your claim was not entirely accurate.
Hey, take that "logic" of yours elsewhere. It's not welcome around these parts.

If Bobby Orr was from Edmonton, had played for Edmonton, had visited the West Edmonton Mall, or was in any way affiliated with Edmonton this might be a different story.

But he's not...so zip it, you.

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Old
02-20-2007, 04:25 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrbez View Post
Hey, take that "logic" of yours elsewhere. It's not welcome around these parts.

If Bobby Orr was from Edmonton, had played for Edmonton, had visited the West Edmonton Mall, or was in any way affiliated with Edmonton this might be a different story.

But he's not...so zip it, you.
Indeed Arrbez. Indeed.

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Old
02-20-2007, 06:29 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willus3 View Post
Well, actually yes, your post should have come with a caveat. You would be one of the very few who thinks it makes sense to compare a forward to a defenseman. How do goalies make out offensively against forwards? Comparing them at their relative positions makes much more sense. Whether you see it or not is irrelevant to me. I cited your post as I wanted people to realize your claim was not entirely accurate.
Actually, my claim was completely accurate. No player in the history of the NHL has won a scoring title by a greater percentage margin than Wayne Gretzky did in 1986-87. That is fact.

You are trying to turn this into something completely different. Remember, I didn't start the Gretzky vs Orr thread.

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Old
02-20-2007, 06:34 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raoul Duke View Post
1994-95 Eric Lindros

Season was already shortened by lockout, but he missed a few games....

46GP 29G 41A 70Pts and 136 PIM, plus 27 rating. Hart Trophy, Lester B. Pearson, and tied for the Art Ross, in less games than Jagr played.

Nobody dominated a single season like Lindros did that year. And I don't care if you bring up Gretzky's 215 pts.... There was a mission Lindros was on, and nobody would stop him. In both games he faced Patrick Roy - he scored a hat trick, there was no goalie to stop him either.

And honestly find a random tape - even if he didn't score a point in the game of Lindros in 94/95, and grab a random Lemieux, Gretzky, Orr, whoever. Nobody ran an entire game on their own merit in the NHL like Lindros did.

Sorry, without a Stanley Cup to top off the season it can be considered very good, even great, but greatest ever??? I dont think so.

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Old
02-20-2007, 08:37 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
Actually, my claim was completely accurate. No player in the history of the NHL has won a scoring title by a greater percentage margin than Wayne Gretzky did in 1986-87. That is fact.

You are trying to turn this into something completely different. Remember, I didn't start the Gretzky vs Orr thread.
Yes you are correct.
I'm not trying to turn this into something else. I started this thread. I know what I wanted it to be. I did not start the Gretz/Orr thread either.
When I drew attention to your post it was to make people aware that there are more details buried in the scoring title that aren't necessarily as obvious as the margin of victory is.
And now I'm done with you on this subject. I've wasted enough time explaining a simple concept to you. Arrbez is right.

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Old
02-20-2007, 11:50 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willus3 View Post
Yes you are correct.
I'm not trying to turn this into something else. I started this thread. I know what I wanted it to be. I did not start the Gretz/Orr thread either.
When I drew attention to your post it was to make people aware that there are more details buried in the scoring title that aren't necessarily as obvious as the margin of victory is.
And now I'm done with you on this subject. I've wasted enough time explaining a simple concept to you. Arrbez is right.
Do you know a guy named chooch, by any chance?

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Old
02-21-2007, 12:18 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
Do you know a guy named chooch, by any chance?
That a threat? Or are you insinuating something else?

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Old
02-21-2007, 01:03 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willus3 View Post
That a threat? Or are you insinuating something else?
LOL. A threat? Good Lord, no. It was more of an inside joke. You share a posting style that somewhat resembles that of a former poster named chooch.


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Old
02-21-2007, 11:34 PM
  #41
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Hey Ogo, I was just reading a thread you started awhile back. I am sorry to have missed it. It's locked now but as i started this thread I'll just post my response here. It was the one about unauthorized biographies. I can't believe it's happening but... I completely agree with you. I don't understand why anyone would buy a book that could be, as you say, tabloid journalism. He is free to distort or manipulate stories any way he sees fit. It's odd too, I saw a short interview with Brunt and he stated that he feels Orr is the greatest to ever play. What I then don't understand is why he would want to tarnish Orr's image in anyway. I certainly will not be supporting Brunt by buying his book.
Great post Ogo! It didn't generate many comments though. Not sure i understand that.

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Old
02-22-2007, 12:30 AM
  #42
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i think best ones have been said already, but howe's 52 and 53 seasons were great. MVP both years. 50% more goals than 2nd both seasons. 25-30% more points than 2nd both seasons. detroit was 1st overall by a huge margin both years, 1st in both goals for and goals against.

actually, sawchuk's 52 season should be mentioned, too. he had 4 SO in his 8 playoff games, allowing only 5 goals in whole playoffs! detroit swept both its playoff rounds and won stanley cup.
1st all-star, (old) vezina. 12 SO, GAA 1.90.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Beer Baron View Post
How about George Hainsworth's 1928-29 season?

44 GP
22 Wins - 7 Loses - 15 Ties
22 Shutouts
43 G.A.
0.92 G.A.A.

I guess that's not a modern day record but it's pretty impressive that he averaged a shutout every 2nd game.
it's very strange about that: according to the stickied thread on award voting, hainsworth wasn't a top vote getter for the hart trophy. i think he wasn't even 1st on his team in votes.

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Old
02-22-2007, 12:43 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
1. It was a 12 team league.
2. 6 teams means each team is better. No bad goalies, defensive depth for everyone, role two scoring lines and two excellent checking lines.
exactly. Only 1 other player I believe went over +100 for a season, and that was Larry Robinson.

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Old
02-22-2007, 04:26 AM
  #44
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This list goes back to the 1967 expansion and takes into account offensive output adjusted based on games played and the leaguewide scoring in that era. Players must play 2/3 of the season to qualify.

Example of how to do to the calculation

1992-93, Mario Lemieux - Pittsburgh
160 pts in 60 games
NHL scoring was 7.25 goals per game
pts / games / scoring = 0.368

1992-93, Mario Lemieux - Pittsburgh - 0.368
1995-96, Mario Lemieux - Pittsburgh - 0.366
1983-84, Wayne Gretzky - Edmonton - 0.351
1988-89, Mario Lemieux - Pittsburgh - 0.350
1984-85, Wayne Gretzky - Edmonton - 0.334
1985-86, Wayne Gretzky - Edmonton - 0.334
1981-82, Wayne Gretzky - Edmonton - 0.330
1982-83, Wayne Gretzky - Edmonton - 0.317
1986-87, Wayne Gretzky - Edmonton - 0.316
1970-71, Phil Esposito - Boston - 0.313
1987-88, Wayne Gretzky - Edmonton - 0.309
1990-91, Wayne Gretzky - Los Angeles - 0.302
1999-00, Jaromir Jagr - Pittsburgh - 0.301
1998-99, Jaromir Jagr - Pittsburgh - 0.300
2006-07, Sidney Crosby - Pittsburgh - 0.296
1973-74, Phil Esposito - Boston - 0.291
1991-92, Mario Lemieux - Pittsburgh - 0.294
1987-88, Mario Lemieux - Pittsburgh - 0.289
1995-96, Jaromir Jagr - Pittsburgh - 0.289
1988-89, Wayne Gretzky - Edmonton - 0.288
1970-71, Bobby Orr - Boston - 0.285
1971-72, Phil Esposito - Boston - 0.285
1989-90, Mario Lemieux - Pittsburgh - 0.283
1971-72, Jean Ratelle - New York Rangers - 0.282
1968-69, Phil Esposito - Boston - 0.276
1996-97, Mario Lemieux - Pittsburgh - 0.275
1998-99, Teemu Selanne - Anaheim - 0.273
1969-70, Bobby Orr - Boston - 0.272
1980-81, Wayne Gretzky - Edmonton - 0.267
1999-00, Joe Sakic - Colorado - 0.266
2002-03, Peter Forsberg - Colorado - 0.266
1989-90, Wayne Gretzky - Los Angeles - 0.264
2000-01, Jaromir Jagr - Pittsburgh - 0.263
1988-89, Steve Yzerman - Detroit - 0.259
1973-74, Bobby Orr, Boston - 0.258
1977-78, Guy Lafleur, Montreal - 0.257
1976-77, Guy Lafleur, Montreal - 0.256
1994-95, Eric Lindros, Philadelphia - 0.255
2002-03, Mario Lemieux - Pittsburgh - 0.255
2005-06, Joe Thornton, San Jose / Boston - 0.255
1988-89, Bernie Nichols - Los Angeles - 0.254
1972-73, Phil Esposito - Boston - 0.254
2000-01, Joe Sakic - Colorado - 0.254
1997-98, Joe Sakic, Colorado - 0.252
1978-79, Bryan Trottier, New York Islanders - 0.252
1997-98, Eric Lindros, Philadelphia - 0.251
1971-72, Bobby Orr, Boston - 0.251
1999-00, Pavel Bure, Florida - 0.250
1994-95, Eric Lindros, Philadelphia - 0.250


Last edited by Lexicon Devil: 02-22-2007 at 05:04 AM.
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Old
02-22-2007, 07:06 AM
  #45
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Lexicon, what site did you get that from?

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Old
02-22-2007, 08:05 AM
  #46
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I calculated those stats myself, so they might not be prefect...

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Old
02-22-2007, 08:08 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Lexicon Devil View Post
I calculated those stats myself, so they might not be prefect...
That's pretty impressive.

I haven't seen anything in the way of hockey stats analogous to Baseball Prospectus or Football Outsiders. I was really hoping you had a solid source that could be used for actual realistic comparisons of players or teams.
Ah well, the search continues.

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Old
02-22-2007, 08:48 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexicon Devil View Post
1992-93, Mario Lemieux - Pittsburgh - 0.368
1995-96, Mario Lemieux - Pittsburgh - 0.366
1983-84, Wayne Gretzky - Edmonton - 0.351
1988-89, Mario Lemieux - Pittsburgh - 0.350
1984-85, Wayne Gretzky - Edmonton - 0.334
1985-86, Wayne Gretzky - Edmonton - 0.334
1981-82, Wayne Gretzky - Edmonton - 0.330
1982-83, Wayne Gretzky - Edmonton - 0.317
1986-87, Wayne Gretzky - Edmonton - 0.316
1970-71, Phil Esposito - Boston - 0.313
1987-88, Wayne Gretzky - Edmonton - 0.309
1990-91, Wayne Gretzky - Los Angeles - 0.302
That seems about right.

Though Hasek took the *beep* out of virtually every scorer for a couple of seasons. A shooter makes you drop your jaw three or five times max per game, another half dozen times including passes and moves,... but at his pinnacle Hasek made jaws drop a dozen times a game or more.

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Old
02-22-2007, 10:01 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willus3 View Post
Hey Ogo, I was just reading a thread you started awhile back. I am sorry to have missed it. It's locked now but as i started this thread I'll just post my response here. It was the one about unauthorized biographies. I can't believe it's happening but... I completely agree with you. I don't understand why anyone would buy a book that could be, as you say, tabloid journalism. He is free to distort or manipulate stories any way he sees fit. It's odd too, I saw a short interview with Brunt and he stated that he feels Orr is the greatest to ever play. What I then don't understand is why he would want to tarnish Orr's image in anyway. I certainly will not be supporting Brunt by buying his book.
Great post Ogo! It didn't generate many comments though. Not sure i understand that.
Nice to see we can agree on some things.

I do like Orr and and I hate it when people like Brunt feel it is their place to write an unauthorized biography. I would rather hear it from the player himself than some outsider that wasn't there. Unauthorized biographies have all the potential in the world to smear the reputation and memory of great players - I would rather remember my favorite players for the great things they did, not something negative that Steven Brunt thinks that they did.

I try to avoid hearing about off-ice stuff with my favorite players as well because, if I knew what a guy like Messier did in his free time, it would probably tarnish my image of him. I would rather remember only his on ice accomplishments.

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Old
02-22-2007, 10:20 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Beer Baron View Post
How about George Hainsworth's 1928-29 season?

44 GP
22 Wins - 7 Loses - 15 Ties
22 Shutouts
43 G.A.
0.92 G.A.A.

I guess that's not a modern day record but it's pretty impressive that he averaged a shutout every 2nd game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
it's very strange about that: according to the stickied thread on award voting, hainsworth wasn't a top vote getter for the hart trophy. i think he wasn't even 1st on his team in votes.
Not only wasn't he in the top 5 in voting, but the Hart winner was another goalie, Roy "Shrimp" Worters. Worters, who played in Pittsburgh the year before, led the NY Americans to a 22 point improvement in the standings, 28 to 50, and cut their GA by 75, 128 to 53.

GP 38 MIN 2390 W 16 L 12 T 10 GAA 1.15 SO 13

He then set an incredible record in the playoffs. In a two game total goal series against the Rangers, he allowed only one goal, which came in the second OT of game 2. The Americans lost the series 1-0 and Worters had set the record for the lowest GAA for a series loser.

GP 2 MIN 150 W 0 L 1 T 1 GAA 0.40 SO 1

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