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Tarik: Zubrus not close to re-signing

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02-20-2007, 04:07 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by shanwon View Post
Don't get me wrong....I don't think he'll get 5 years, but you know his people are asking for that. He would get 4 on the open market....IMO.

As for the Cap issue....you're just guessing...there is no way to predict what shape we'll be in or if we'll even have the few stars we currently have on this team, what the salary cap will be, etc...
Yes, I'm speculating. However, I am doing it in the context of looking at when contracts are expiring and who will be due raises, etc., not just random guessing. And you are correct, no way to know what the salary cap max will be; hopefully owners and management have a better idea of the overall league direction in terms of those numbers, but long-term contracts for non-star players have plenty of risks associated with them as it relates to the newness of the cap structure.

And I don't agree that Zubrus will get 4M on the open market, especially for a longer term deal and this discussion has to take place taking into account dollars and term. Simply my opinion.


And back to Olie and his contract, I meant to type that goalies are in a different category, just commenting about salaries/team salary structure, etc.

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02-20-2007, 04:18 PM
  #102
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i think zubrus has far more value to the caps than to other teams (i.e. the whole ovechkin factor and the fact we're so thin at center we think he's a good scoring line center). that being the case, his only chance, imo, of getting a good deal is to get it with us. his trade value is limited b/c most teams probably recognize his unique situation with us inflates his numbers and apparent worth.

thus, he can hold us up b/c he knows we need him more than any other team would. that, my friends, is why i think gmgm should say "thank you for your contributions over the years, dainus, and good luck to you in the future."

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02-20-2007, 04:21 PM
  #103
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i think zubrus has far more value to the caps than to other teams (i.e. the whole ovechkin factor and the fact we're so thin at center we think he's a good scoring line center). that being the case, his only chance, imo, of getting a good deal is to get it with us. his trade value is limited b/c most teams probably recognize his unique situation with us inflates his numbers and apparent worth.

thus, he can hold us up b/c he knows we need him more than any other team would. that, my friends, is why i think gmgm should say "thank you for your contributions over the years, dainus, and good luck to you in the future."


In a perfect world the Caps can move him now, and then if Zubrus finally realizes he is not worth that kind of money this summer the Caps can offer him another deal.

But part of me wants to see some team give Zuby 3.5-4 per. Because I would love something to be able to laugh at for the next 4 years.

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02-20-2007, 04:22 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by pgreene View Post
i think zubrus has far more value to the caps than to other teams (i.e. the whole ovechkin factor and the fact we're so thin at center we think he's a good scoring line center). that being the case, his only chance, imo, of getting a good deal is to get it with us. his trade value is limited b/c most teams probably recognize his unique situation with us inflates his numbers and apparent worth.

thus, he can hold us up b/c he knows we need him more than any other team would. that, my friends, is why i think gmgm should say "thank you for your contributions over the years, dainus, and good luck to you in the future."
and what do you expect to get in return?

If he's asking for over 4 mil. per yr., I agree but if it's 3-3.5 sign him to a 3 yr deal.

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02-20-2007, 04:23 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by pgreene View Post
i think zubrus has far more value to the caps than to other teams (i.e. the whole ovechkin factor and the fact we're so thin at center we think he's a good scoring line center). that being the case, his only chance, imo, of getting a good deal is to get it with us. his trade value is limited b/c most teams probably recognize his unique situation with us inflates his numbers and apparent worth.

thus, he can hold us up b/c he knows we need him more than any other team would. that, my friends, is why i think gmgm should say "thank you for your contributions over the years, dainus, and good luck to you in the future."
I disagree....in 10 seconds of thinking about it....I came up with this. Briere is a UFA too isn't he? Can Buffalo afford him? If they can't, would they want Zubrus to step in and center Afinagenov?

I'm just saying...there are many teams with young Russians. Who knows....Columbus signs him to play with Zherdev....seeing as how Fedorov is almost done.

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02-20-2007, 04:23 PM
  #106
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In a perfect world the Caps can move him now, and then if Zubrus finally realizes he is not worth that kind of money this summer the Caps can offer him another deal.

But part of me wants to see some team give Zuby 3.5-4 per. Because I would love something to be able to laugh at for the next 4 years.
agreed with that. i equate another team paying zubrus 3.5-4 per to the kings paying willsie, well, an NHL contract. without ovechkin, zubrus is just not that special a player. period. he never has been in his career, and he shows no signs he is now. maybe he'll become that player, but so far, he's done absolutely nothing on his own to merit that kind of salary from any other team.

i hope it happens, so we can field the befuddled posts from that team's fans next year: "we paid $4mil for this?!?"

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02-20-2007, 04:25 PM
  #107
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agreed with that. i equate another team paying zubrus 3.5-4 per to the kings paying willsie, well, an NHL contract. without ovechkin, zubrus is just not that special a player. period. he never has been in his career, and he shows no signs he is now. maybe he'll become that player, but so far, he's done absolutely nothing on his own to merit that kind of salary from any other team.

i hope it happens, so we can field the befuddled posts from that team's fans next year: "we paid $4mil for this?!?"


Preach On

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02-20-2007, 04:28 PM
  #108
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I disagree....in 10 seconds of thinking about it....I came up with this. Briere is a UFA too isn't he? Can Buffalo afford him? If they can't, would they want Zubrus to step in and center Afinagenov?

I'm just saying...there are many teams with young Russians. Who knows....Columbus signs him to play with Zherdev....seeing as how Fedorov is almost done.
i don't equate any other player with ovechkin, and i therefore think zubrus will not duplicate or improve his numbers in any other environment with any other player.

on the other post (i don't know how to do multiple quotes), that's the exact nature of the pickle we are in. zubrus is NOT worth $3.5 mil to anyone other than the caps, and he would only potentially be worth that to the caps because we're very much in a bind. his trade value is therefore not that of a $3.5-$4 mil player. it's more that of a useful spare part/second line right wing/third line center. on the open market, think more jeff halpern than patrick marleau.

it's because we're in a bind that he's inflating his demand. which again is why i say let him walk. tie zubrus up for 4 years at that price, and what do you do three years from now when you're trying to sign ovechkin, semin, fehr, green, schultz, backstrom, mo, etc? what do you do when he's been passed on the depth chart and you're still paying him that much?

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02-20-2007, 04:34 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by pgreene View Post
i don't equate any other player with ovechkin, and i therefore think zubrus will not duplicate or improve his numbers in any other environment with any other player.

on the other post (i don't know how to do multiple quotes), that's the exact nature of the pickle we are in. zubrus is NOT worth $3.5 mil to anyone other than the caps, and he would only potentially be worth that to the caps because we're very much in a bind. his trade value is therefore not that of a $3.5-$4 mil player. it's more that of a useful spare part/second line right wing/third line center. on the open market, think more jeff halpern than patrick marleau.

it's because we're in a bind that he's inflating his demand. which again is why i say let him walk. tie zubrus up for 4 years at that price, and what do you do three years from now when you're trying to sign ovechkin, semin, fehr, green, schultz, backstrom, mo, etc? what do you do when he's been passed on the depth chart and you're still paying him that much?
Ovechkin has no bearing on other teams being interested in Zubrus. They now know he can play top line minutes with a star. Every team has stars for Zubrus to play with.

No legitimate sources have said Zubrus wasn't worth X amount per year. What they've said is that he's worth MORE to the Caps because of the leadership and mentor role.

As for signing those other players in the future.....you make those decisions when they come...you cannot cower in a corner afraid to pull the trigger based upon predicting the future of players on your team. It's unthinkable....but Ovechkin could be gone, or Semin, or any of the players you've written.

I'm not saying the Caps aren't planning ahead...I certainly hope and believe they are, but if they're really building a winning team that will contend for years, then they'll be dealing with salary cap issues for a long time Zubrus or no Zubrus.

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02-20-2007, 04:46 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by shanwon View Post
Ovechkin has no bearing on other teams being interested in Zubrus. They now know he can play top line minutes with a star. Every team has stars for Zubrus to play with.

No legitimate sources have said Zubrus wasn't worth X amount per year. What they've said is that he's worth MORE to the Caps because of the leadership and mentor role.

As for signing those other players in the future.....you make those decisions when they come...you cannot cower in a corner afraid to pull the trigger based upon predicting the future of players on your team. It's unthinkable....but Ovechkin could be gone, or Semin, or any of the players you've written.

I'm not saying the Caps aren't planning ahead...I certainly hope and believe they are, but if they're really building a winning team that will contend for years, then they'll be dealing with salary cap issues for a long time Zubrus or no Zubrus.
Redskins fan much???

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02-20-2007, 04:48 PM
  #111
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Ovechkin has no bearing on other teams being interested in Zubrus. They now know he can play top line minutes with a star. Every team has stars for Zubrus to play with.

No legitimate sources have said Zubrus wasn't worth X amount per year. What they've said is that he's worth MORE to the Caps because of the leadership and mentor role.

As for signing those other players in the future.....you make those decisions when they come...you cannot cower in a corner afraid to pull the trigger based upon predicting the future of players on your team. It's unthinkable....but Ovechkin could be gone, or Semin, or any of the players you've written.

I'm not saying the Caps aren't planning ahead...I certainly hope and believe they are, but if they're really building a winning team that will contend for years, then they'll be dealing with salary cap issues for a long time Zubrus or no Zubrus.
do you think this team should plan, long term, to have zubrus as a top line player? to me, that's what this all boils down to. i think zubrus is asking for an awfully sweet deal given his actual value and production level. i think for the money he's asking, we could do better on the top lines.

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02-20-2007, 05:02 PM
  #112
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Redskins fan much???


If you're asking if I would rather have an owner who spends everything he has to at least TRY to construct a contender, or Abe Polin, or Leonsis who is riding more along the lines of how Polin was running the team, then yes.

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02-20-2007, 05:03 PM
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do you think this team should plan, long term, to have zubrus as a top line player? to me, that's what this all boils down to. i think zubrus is asking for an awfully sweet deal given his actual value and production level. i think for the money he's asking, we could do better on the top lines.
Longterm to me = the next 3-4 years. So yes, I think they have at worst their #1 right wing or #2 center in Zubrus.

Who pray tell could we do better with for the same or less price?

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02-20-2007, 05:20 PM
  #114
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If you're asking if I would rather have an owner who spends everything he has to at least TRY to construct a contender, or Abe Polin, or Leonsis who is riding more along the lines of how Polin was running the team, then yes.
I agree that I'd rather have Snyder over Bidwell. But I'm thinking along the lines of the Rooneys and Kraft.

But I digress cause we have Bidwell's equivalent running the show here.

OT: I understand that the Cards are spending $ now that they have a new stadium and are beginning to sell out.

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02-20-2007, 05:24 PM
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Another thing is I don't know how in the hell you (GMGM) mention to the press that we are looking to upgrade our offense during the offseason WHILE you are negotiating with 2 offensive players! All it did was given them (Z&Z) leverage, whether real or implied, it still isn't smart negotiations. Freaking idiot.

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02-20-2007, 05:25 PM
  #116
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Longterm to me = the next 3-4 years. So yes, I think they have at worst their #1 right wing or #2 center in Zubrus.

Who pray tell could we do better with for the same or less price?
honestly, i don't know. don't get me wrong--i like zubrus. i'm like a cubs fan about shawon dunston--don't worry, next year, he'll finally break out. i think zubrus is also very shrewd when it comes to the business side of hockey and will get himself the very best deal possible.

my concern is that i don't think you can pay him that much money to fill a role in which i believe he's a reach. imagine next year that backstrom's the real deal and fehr's proven he can score at the nhl level. that leaves you with zubrus centering the second line with semin and fehr/clark (whichever one is not on the top line). problem is, zubrus is sometimes challenged on finishing, which means semin's passing efforts are wasted and he goes back to trying to do it all himself. so you've got zubrus as the defensive conscience on the second line, chipping in a few goals, but that's about all. he's not particularly proficient on the power play and would likely be bumped from the first unit if this hypothetical is true.

is a defensively responsible second line center who might score 20 goals worth $3.5-$4 per? i mean, jeff halpern got $2 million after filling that role on this team, and being better on draws to boot.

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02-20-2007, 06:53 PM
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honestly, i don't know. don't get me wrong--i like zubrus. i'm like a cubs fan about shawon dunston--don't worry, next year, he'll finally break out. i think zubrus is also very shrewd when it comes to the business side of hockey and will get himself the very best deal possible.

my concern is that i don't think you can pay him that much money to fill a role in which i believe he's a reach. imagine next year that backstrom's the real deal and fehr's proven he can score at the nhl level. that leaves you with zubrus centering the second line with semin and fehr/clark (whichever one is not on the top line). problem is, zubrus is sometimes challenged on finishing, which means semin's passing efforts are wasted and he goes back to trying to do it all himself. so you've got zubrus as the defensive conscience on the second line, chipping in a few goals, but that's about all. he's not particularly proficient on the power play and would likely be bumped from the first unit if this hypothetical is true.

is a defensively responsible second line center who might score 20 goals worth $3.5-$4 per? i mean, jeff halpern got $2 million after filling that role on this team, and being better on draws to boot.
That's amusing.

Of all the Caps' players with 10 or more points, only two have more goals than assists. Chris Clark, who feeds off his Zubrus and Ovechkin without often returning the favor. And Alexander Semin. Indeed, if you look at Semin's NHL career totals, or even at his Russian League totals from last year, you'll see he's put up more goals than assists.

Passing is not the focus of his game. Which is fine. As a Caps fan, I'll take goals wherever they come from.

But it's silly to theorize that if Zubrus were a linemate of Semin's, Zubrus would weaken Semin's game because Semin's game is like Adam Oates and Zubrus can't finish.

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02-20-2007, 06:56 PM
  #118
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That's amusing.

Of all the Caps' players with 10 or more points, only two have more goals than assists. Chris Clark, who feeds off his Zubrus and Ovechkin without often returning the favor. And Alexander Semin. Indeed, if you look at Semin's NHL career totals, or even at his Russian League totals from last year, you'll see he's put up more goals than assists.

Passing is not the focus of his game. Which is fine. As a Caps fan, I'll take goals wherever they come from.

But it's silly to theorize that if Zubrus were a linemate of Semin's, Zubrus would weaken Semin's game because Semin's game is like Adam Oates and Zubrus can't finish.
semin can pass, and brilliantly. he just doesn't have anyone who can tap it in. accordingly, he tends to go one-on-the-defense. yes, he's a goal scorer, but with a potent right winger he could put up loads of assists. and i'm not saying he's weaken semin's game. i'm saying he wouldn't help his game.

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02-20-2007, 07:55 PM
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If you're asking if I would rather have an owner who spends everything he has to at least TRY to construct a contender, or Abe Polin, or Leonsis who is riding more along the lines of how Polin was running the team, then yes.
It's easy to spend a ton of money on your team when you own one of the most profitable sports franchises in the world.

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02-20-2007, 08:54 PM
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semin can pass, and brilliantly. he just doesn't have anyone who can tap it in. accordingly, he tends to go one-on-the-defense. yes, he's a goal scorer, but with a potent right winger he could put up loads of assists. and i'm not saying he's weaken semin's game. i'm saying he wouldn't help his game.
I disagree....Semin is a one man highlight reel. He's not a distributor. He's a shoot
1st, 2nd, 3rd, and pass 4th guy.

Zubrus would be good with Semin. He would bring a presence physically and defensively. Zubrus has already shown he can put Ovechkin's rebounds in the goal, so why wouldn't he be able to do the same with Semin?

The part that scares the hell of me is that so far this year, when we've been under the gun in a game, need to get the goalie pulled and get the puck under control in the offensive zone...well Zubrus has been the ONLY one to do that with consistancy.

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02-20-2007, 08:57 PM
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It's easy to spend a ton of money on your team when you own one of the most profitable sports franchises in the world.
It's even easier to have one of the most profitable sports franchises in the world when they've won multiple championships. Even though the last one was what 13 years ago...winning creates fans for life. And then those fans have children...and so on and so on.

If you win it they will come.

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02-21-2007, 12:55 AM
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Zubrus getting the $20M he's asking for right now on the open market is a fantasy.

No way that anyone gives him both the salary and term he wants... the Caps won't do it, and they value him more than any other club. If he's lucky, he gets one (salary OR term), but not both.

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02-21-2007, 07:24 AM
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Another thing is I don't know how in the hell you (GMGM) mention to the press that we are looking to upgrade our offense during the offseason WHILE you are negotiating with 2 offensive players! All it did was given them (Z&Z) leverage, whether real or implied, it still isn't smart negotiations. Freaking idiot.
This is pure McPhee code here.

What this says is "my real plans are to make moves later...so I won't be budging now...so it's take it or leave it."

This is supposed to make players worry about being replaced later when there's a glut.

Remember Zubie's rant about it "being up to management"?

That's the coded response.

Pg's comment asking why they'd pay Zubie so much when $2 mill was too much for #11 is right on.

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02-21-2007, 08:04 AM
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I'm not saying the Caps aren't planning ahead...I certainly hope and believe they are, but if they're really building a winning team that will contend for years, then they'll be dealing with salary cap issues for a long time Zubrus or no Zubrus.
Hmmm....finally found something I disagree with you on.

Something I used to tell the ESPN board...and actually got a rise outta Darcy when I mentioned this while breaking bread with the Verot fam...the owners have always had a salary cap. While most knew that teams were free to spend as much as they wanted...few realized that they were also free to spend as little as they wanted to as well....and the same dynamic is true whether you spent more...or less:

It's all in the players you choose!

That's why a Tampa & Carolina can spend a modest amount while winning the Cup while Ranger types spend to the moon with not even a playoff game to show for it.

Therin lies the problem...the Cap's claim that they tried it with the high-priced vets & FA and it didn't work...ignores the real problem: they didn't know what players to take....and they're in denial about it.

And don't worry about Ted or George suddenly seeing through the denial...as winning is a moot point anyway. We went to the Finals...and nobody came. We got the most prolific scorer in the game and then followed up with another (Lang)....nobody came.

So we're not gonna see them have to work the Cap...we're always gonna be spending on the cheap...so to speak. The Caps are nothing more than a tennant of the Phone Booth...keeping losses at an acceptable rate while Ted makes his real money on the Wizards.

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02-21-2007, 11:32 AM
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Therin lies the problem...the Cap's claim that they tried it with the high-priced vets & FA and it didn't work...ignores the real problem: they didn't know what players to take....and they're in denial about it.

And don't worry about Ted or George suddenly seeing through the denial...as winning is a moot point anyway. We went to the Finals...and nobody came. We got the most prolific scorer in the game and then followed up with another (Lang)....nobody came.

So we're not gonna see them have to work the Cap...we're always gonna be spending on the cheap...so to speak. The Caps are nothing more than a tennant of the Phone Booth...keeping losses at an acceptable rate while Ted makes his real money on the Wizards.
Good points.

Unless the Caps make great strides via additions from the draft and in terms of coaching/motivating, it's going to be very difficult for this team to overcome the organization's acceptance of incompetence within its ranks.

If the organization isn't willing to pay for a team that will seriously compete, then eventually their star players will get frustrated and go elsewhere. It is beyond frustrating to see world-class players surrounded by players that shouldn't even be the in league in the first place.

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