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Old
02-21-2007, 02:42 PM
  #26
Bluenote13
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Originally Posted by Il Ragazzone View Post
What's becoming increasingly evident is that while we're drafting guys that may pan out as top liners, we are also getting guys who will be talented players for the bottom two lines. In Korpikoski, Byers, Callahan, Pyatt, etc once they make the show, they're gonna be a hell of a lot more productive than the Hollweg's, Bett's, Orr's we have now.

And even though we may not be hoarding Malkin's and Crosby's, that is quite refreshing.
Maybe we're hoarding the guys to COMBAT the Crosby's & Malkin's ?

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02-21-2007, 04:17 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Colorado Avalanche View Post
I don't think he will ever become offensive-juggernaut. He will be very valuable two-way player for Rangers in the future, but don't expect him to blow of your mind with his offensive-skills.
I dont think he'll be scoring 30 goals in the NHL by any means. I think he'll turn into a Cullen type player with more of a defensive game and better stickhandler. One of the players that will be bumped back and forth from the 2nd/3rd line due to injuries or whatever.

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02-21-2007, 04:20 PM
  #28
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Ragazzone...

I agree with what you're saying...I also believe they need to start getting some top 6 guys too...

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02-21-2007, 05:31 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Il Ragazzone View Post
I don't think we should pigeonhole Korps as a third line player. Numbers and lines do not mean anything. Avery's been an average third line forward for his whole career but comes here and does not miss a beat playing with top six forwards. And he's looked like one of our best.

Korpikoski can be a top six player.
I don't know if pigeonhole is the right word so much as getting a general feel for his style.

Korpikoski in other words will likely never be counted on to be a scorer but rather a guy who goes against other teams top guys and can chip in some points as well.

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02-21-2007, 05:40 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I don't know if pigeonhole is the right word so much as getting a general feel for his style.

Korpikoski in other words will likely never be counted on to be a scorer but rather a guy who goes against other teams top guys and can chip in some points as well.


I think your underestimating Korpi's offense skills if you think hes only really good for strictly a defensive role. He has shown a lot of offensive potential in the AHL this season and he certainly doesn't look like just a "shutdown forward". He's one of the youngest (or youngest?) players on the Pack team and has impressed the coaching staff enough with his offensive talent to be put on the top line.

The AHL is of course the place where players develop there skills at the pro level and he definitely has untapped offensive potential that the staff is trying to get out of him (and there has been a noticeable improvement on it since the start of the season to now)

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Old
02-21-2007, 05:47 PM
  #31
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As the season has gone on his offense has been picking up a little. He seems to be becoming more and more of a player. I think this is a guy who could make the team next year as a 3rd or 4th liner and do a pretty good job--definitely would add to the energy level of the team.

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Old
02-21-2007, 06:25 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
It's in the back of my head...
but I'm not worried. If he comes in with a similar season next year, then yes, I do worry. He'll be an NHLer, I believe, but it's just a question of if he's a second, third or fourth liner. Being a first rounder for whom the Rangers traded-up, there are high expectations, which hopefully doesn't affect people's percetion of him.
That is kind of how I feel, when I haven't seen him in a while...

Seriously though, in order to understand Korpikoski we must remind ourselfs that this kid is a really late bloomer. That is not a excuse, its a fact.

These are his stats from juniors in Finland:
TPS Turku Jr. C SM-sarja 01/02 14G 10g 7a 17pts
TPS Turku Jr. B SM-sarja 02/03 21G 7g 4a 11pts
TPS Turku Jr. A SM-sarja 03/04 36G 12g 8a 20pts

You know, 17 pts as a 15 y/o, playing against other 15 y/o's defenitly aren't impressive. 11 pts as a 16 y/o, playing against 16-17 y/o aren't either impressive. Thoose kind of numbers haven't gotten many players to the SM-liigaa. Then something happend as a 17th y/o, he suddenly got picked for the Finnish National team late in the 03/04 season. He must have come out of nowhere and probably won a spot as a 4th liner energy player, but instead won the scoring title in the U18 WJCH.

Looking at the Inside draft shows, it was obvious how young Korpedo looked. We all know how diffrent kids develop, someguys are easily 2-3 years ahead of others. Korpikoski obviously must have been extremely late developed as a 15 and 16 y/o.

Instead of looking at him as a typical 20 y/o, we should look at him as a 18-19 y/o, and for players that age, its defenitly not unusual to no put up great numbers playing against men. Look at guys like Kovalchuk and Joe Thorntons numbers in the NHL as 18-19 y/o's. Also remember that Korpikoski have played the two seasons before this in the SM-liigaa. He have never been played at a level were he have been dominant.

Scoring pts is to a certain degree about cutting corners, plain cheating, taking chances. Hoping to find a D who aren't dooing his job. Taking a shot hoping that the goalie is a sleep, hoping that a puck will bounce your way. Korpikoski haven't learned that yet, and its not something I got a problem with. What works in the AHL defenitly won't work in the NHL anyway. Korpedo also takes a big defensvie responsibility in HFD, beeing on the top PK unit many nights, and also always working really hard on the back check.

He are there offensivly, challenging D's, turning them inside and out, beating them with speed, making good passes and stuff like that. But he are not putting it all together constantly enough, and on many night he are also playing with linemates who are rookies too. The positive for me is that I belive that he will be able to take all his pts from the AHL with him to the NHL. He don't got any (bad) habits from lower levels that never will work in the NHL.

I am not prepaired to give up on him completly when it comes to becomming a star. I just see so many aspects of his game that I love, and its the right aspects too, and I see no aspects of his game that will keep him back in the NHL. I wouldn't be shocked if he scored 80 pts in the NHL someday. At the same time, I think the AHL sucks right now, and he got less then 30 pts there right now as a 20 y/o, maybe I am out of my mind. But that is what I feel.

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Old
02-21-2007, 06:37 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
I dont think he'll be scoring 30 goals in the NHL by any means. I think he'll turn into a Cullen type player with more of a defensive game and better stickhandler. One of the players that will be bumped back and forth from the 2nd/3rd line due to injuries or whatever.
Thats probably the most likely scenario.

Though there is one big diffrence between the two, and thats their game on the rush. Which makes me hope that he can have better potential.

Cullen creates his chances from beating D's clean. But inorder to do that against NHL d's you need to be named Pavel Bure, or catch someone flatfooted or someone named Derian Hatcher. In other words, Cullen don't do it that often, the D's are too good for it.

Korpedo can keep his balance and his feet moving, leaning against a D. Thats something very few are able to do, and something that defenitly are succesful these days in the NHL. He got tremendous balance. He can beat both slow D's with his speed, and fast D's with his balance.

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02-21-2007, 07:31 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
I think your underestimating Korpi's offense skills if you think hes only really good for strictly a defensive role. He has shown a lot of offensive potential in the AHL this season and he certainly doesn't look like just a "shutdown forward". He's one of the youngest (or youngest?) players on the Pack team and has impressed the coaching staff enough with his offensive talent to be put on the top line.

The AHL is of course the place where players develop there skills at the pro level and he definitely has untapped offensive potential that the staff is trying to get out of him (and there has been a noticeable improvement on it since the start of the season to now)
Well let me clarify, I think he very well could end up being more of a scorer but I think the safest projection right now is as a potentially very good third liner.

Going back to his draft I always felt that if he really developing all of his offensive instincts, that he was a second line winger. Most likely I saw him as a tweener between a second liner and a very good third liner and my view really hasn't changed in that regard.

I think Korpikoski has good instincts and a good feel for the game but if I had to guess right now I'd say 25 goals is probably pushing it and 15-20 goals is more along the lines of what you're looking at if he progresses.

Somewhere in the discussion I think we're getting a little off track and focusing too much on the actual lines rather than the type of player we're talking. Getting away from lines for a second, I think you're most likely looking 15-20 goal player who goes up against teams offensive players and can bring some production. Now whether that means playing with more offensive players on a second line or playing on a third line is arbitrary (see Madden or a Holik type role).

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02-21-2007, 07:35 PM
  #35
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i still think he will be a consistent 20-40-60 guy when he makes the show....but seriously, based upon his dominant puck skills, he wouldn't surprise me turning into a 30-50-80 type player

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02-21-2007, 07:37 PM
  #36
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ola...

korpikoski's offense has suffered from playing with men. That will help him become a better all-around player, but he was stuck on third and fourth lines in two seasons in Finland post-draft and produced little. Now he's 20 years old, hasn't developed a talent for scoring at a high level and against men, and he once again is on second and third lines. What I like about the kid is he plays hard and he goes at it every shift. That's what's making him better as the season goes along. He's been a very good skater and puckhandler from the get-go, but finding the back of the net is an art, like finding the open guy. I have no problems with a late bloomer.

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Old
02-21-2007, 07:39 PM
  #37
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My concern is that people see their natural abilities and start pumping up projections on him as a scorer which unfortunatly happens to a lot of kids.

That's not to say it's impossible but realistically anything over 70 points puts him in the top 50 scorers in the league and I just can't see Korpikoski hitting that level.

When we talk about 70-80 points we're talking about the Brad Richards like range and I just don't see it.

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Old
02-21-2007, 07:42 PM
  #38
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When I Look at Korpikoski I think of a Jere Lehtinen.

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Old
02-22-2007, 01:06 PM
  #39
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I'd rather he eventually be a third or fourth liner than not be an NHLer at all but should we be satisfied if a guy we traded up to get in the middle of the first round becomes a third line, 35 point guy? We need top six forwards desparately. None of our current top six will be here in three years, except maybe Jagr.

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02-22-2007, 01:15 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by ish View Post
I'd rather he eventually be a third or fourth liner than not be an NHLer at all but should we be satisfied if a guy we traded up to get in the middle of the first round becomes a third line, 35 point guy? We need top six forwards desparately. None of our current top six will be here in three years, except maybe Jagr.
Depends on how things play out and I think ultimately how successful the team is.

When you look at Detroit in the 1990's you had guys like Maltby, Draper, McCarty, etc. who scored in that 15 goal range but who were instrumental in building a winning team.

Winning really does change the context of how drafts or trades are ultimately viewed.

As for top-six forwards, that is going to be an area the Rangers are going to have to work on big time. I think they've got an abundance of bottom 6 players who ultimately they'll find players to go to battle with. I think they've got goaltending about as well-covered as any team really can. They've got enough defensive prospects that they'll get a nice return on their investment but top 6 forwards continues to be a sore spot and (without getting into a seperate debate) is where the 2002 and 2003 drafts hurt.

Having said that, the Rangers have some options for potential second liners but it's no secret that they've lacked a cornerstone young forward for a number of years. At some point they either have to draft one or they have to trade for one.

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