Now before we go any further on this, let me say this is NOT about 1 game or if Yashin is a good player.
I've been saying for so long this team has majority of up & down players
not finesse players. The problem here is their highest paid player is in the minority and tends to create a problem inadvertently as he's looked upon to put up hugh numbers and to do so he must log lots of ice time.
Here's the problem, he doesn't have the wings to do it and has a tendancy to give up when things are not going well, that coupled with
all the ice time given creates a jealousy and frustration with all the other players. You hear comments in the papers about "some players",
you see Ninnama screaming at his defensive breakdown.
All said, this team would be a much better team without him solely on the effort and unity that would become stronger.
Thats not to say Yashin isn't a talent or he doesn't have his good games but you can see when he's riding the bench, there seems to be a more
cohesive group.
Too bad there is no chance of fixing it and Peca's right, he's more likely to be moved because Yashin's and his contract can't.
Tough way to exist as an Islander fan. Are you an Islander fan at all and do you want the team to win? I wonder.
How do you know Yashin gives up when things are not going well or that there is jealousy or frustration with the other players or the team need to be rid of him for better unity? You come off as someone who just cannot stand Yashin no matter what he does or it goes back to what happened in Ottawa and just do not want him on this team regardless of how he plays or how the team does.
Sure seemed popular enough down the stretch and in the playoffs. He was mobbed by the team for the beating he took in game one against Ottawa.
We read second or third hand comments from three writers (Hahn, Grossman, Botte) looking to sell papers that do not name names and do a lousy job covering the team.
Peca said it best " Unless a players tells you first-hand do not believe it."
Seems like your reaching for excuses to bash Yashin and post another get him off the team thread because Micheletti said he was yelling at Yashin to get into position. Niinimaa makes his share of mistakes too, most of the players do.
Yashin's not leaving and Peca is most likely not leaving either. Might as well look for answers with what they have.
The best answer is you keep Yashin and try to find players who will fit him best and give everyone a look and that is what they are doing.
Do you have any answers with Alexei Yashin, Micheal Peca on the team? I'm curious.
I guess I'm looking for bigger and better. 1 or 2 wins doesn't do it for me, I still see the same team with personalities of it's key players too contrasting. This team hasn't improved on the ice since the makeover,
and will not make it this year if something doesn't change.
Are you an Islander fan at all and do you want the team to win? I wonder.
Been one for years. Through the good and through the bad.
How do you know Yashin gives up when things are not going well or that there is jealousy or frustration with the other players or the team need to be rid of him for better unity? You come off as someone who just cannot stand Yashin no matter what he does or it goes back to what happened in Ottawa and just do not want him on this team regardless of how he plays or how the team does.
I usually don't sit my 8million dollar guy on the bench for extended even man shifts or move him to the 4th line ala last year. Tells you something.
Also, being from Mtl, I got to see alot of Ottawa games up here and
I don't think I heard many players commenting on how they were going to miss Yashin after he was dealt. Tells you something. Also heard
Troy Murray on the Blackhawks broadcast refrain from telling a few stories (Not good ones)
Seems like your reaching for excuses to bash Yashin and post another get him off the team thread because Micheletti said he was yelling at Yashin to get into position. Niinimaa makes his share of mistakes too, most of the players do
As my original post says "Thats not to say Yashin isn't a talent or he doesn't have his good games "
Not bashing him, just pointing out facts, the point you're missing is
I'm not directly saying "get Yashin off the team" but rather
complete your team with the same core group. Aucoin's/Ninnama's/Peca's/Parrish's/Hunter/Bates/Blake's etc..
or go another route and add to the Kvasha's/Yashins/Czerkawski's
etc.. I think there closer to a winner the first way. Thats not to say
Kvasha/Yashin/Czerkawski won't score goals but I'd prefer Hunters goal
scoring approach over Yashins. Thats not to compare the 2 players career just the approach to scoring goals.
Do you have any answers with Alexei Yashin, Micheal Peca on the team? I'm curious
Well, Mike Milbury has made it tough on me here, there are probably
no teams interested in Yashin at the $'s owed but I can bet that if Forsberg was available and healty, I'd find alot of takers. That alone should tell you what type of player Yashin is.
Only option and I'm not sure Det. is interested but they have something
they don't want and we may be able to use if only for a year or so, his name is Cujo. This is not a talent swap but a way to rid myself of
the long term debt. If nothing does get done with Yashin, our Stanley cup will come in the form of just making the playoffs.
Hope I've answered all your concerns about my dispostion on the team
i tend to agree to the school of thought that doesnt blame yashin...but the lack of talent around him.
Hence the argument that some fans have that Peca & Yashin should be traded because of thier current lack of production..is very flawed.
Heres a few questions id ask these fans
1. Did you expect Yashin to be Mario Lemieux ?
Though he has quite the handsome contract [90 million], Yashin is a really good player...but NOT a Franchise player.
Im not downgrading yashin...hes a very talented player...but to have the illusion that he by himself could carry the Isles into the Cup finals is a bit naive.
2. Mike Peca isnt Steve Yzerman
Dont get me wrong...i defend both guys im mentioning but im a realist...Yashin isnt Lemieux.........Peca isnt steve Y or Mike Modano
Peca is a Selke winner...a Lehitnen not a true scorer but a defensive specialist. Pecas value is to deliver that "hit" on a player cause that moment that changes a games momentum.
3.How soon before the vultures swoop down on DiPietro?
This guy might end up being the most important player on the Isles roster...but as evidenced by people's lack of patience on Peca & Yashin
Its not long before i can see the "Trade for a established Goalie" posts
DiPietro will end up being better than Luongo in the long run
I guess I'm looking for bigger and better. 1 or 2 wins doesn't do it for me, I still see the same team with personalities of it's key players too contrasting. This team hasn't improved on the ice since the makeover,
and will not make it this year if something doesn't change.
Are you an Islander fan at all and do you want the team to win? I wonder.
Been one for years. Through the good and through the bad.
How do you know Yashin gives up when things are not going well or that there is jealousy or frustration with the other players or the team need to be rid of him for better unity? You come off as someone who just cannot stand Yashin no matter what he does or it goes back to what happened in Ottawa and just do not want him on this team regardless of how he plays or how the team does.
I usually don't sit my 8million dollar guy on the bench for extended even man shifts or move him to the 4th line ala last year. Tells you something.
Also, being from Mtl, I got to see alot of Ottawa games up here and
I don't think I heard many players commenting on how they were going to miss Yashin after he was dealt. Tells you something. Also heard
Troy Murray on the Blackhawks broadcast refrain from telling a few stories (Not good ones)
Seems like your reaching for excuses to bash Yashin and post another get him off the team thread because Micheletti said he was yelling at Yashin to get into position. Niinimaa makes his share of mistakes too, most of the players do
As my original post says "Thats not to say Yashin isn't a talent or he doesn't have his good games "
Not bashing him, just pointing out facts, the point you're missing is
I'm not directly saying "get Yashin off the team" but rather
complete your team with the same core group. Aucoin's/Ninnama's/Peca's/Parrish's/Hunter/Bates/Blake's etc..
or go another route and add to the Kvasha's/Yashins/Czerkawski's
etc.. I think there closer to a winner the first way. Thats not to say
Kvasha/Yashin/Czerkawski won't score goals but I'd prefer Hunters goal
scoring approach over Yashins. Thats not to compare the 2 players career just the approach to scoring goals.
Do you have any answers with Alexei Yashin, Micheal Peca on the team? I'm curious
Well, Mike Milbury has made it tough on me here, there are probably
no teams interested in Yashin at the $'s owed but I can bet that if Forsberg was available and healty, I'd find alot of takers. That alone should tell you what type of player Yashin is.
Only option and I'm not sure Det. is interested but they have something
they don't want and we may be able to use if only for a year or so, his name is Cujo. This is not a talent swap but a way to rid myself of
the long term debt. If nothing does get done with Yashin, our Stanley cup will come in the form of just making the playoffs.
Hope I've answered all your concerns about my dispostion on the team
Funny that you mention that, because the players in Buffalo didn't exactly say they'd be missing Peca either. And I believe a few of their players even went as far as to bash Peca's ability to lead a team.
Yashin can easily be a 40-40-80 guy if he had 1 quality winger. The fact of the matter is, the Isles don't have 1 legit top-4 winger right now. Yashin's line is getting chopped up every shift and Peca's line, prior to last night, hasn't done much to relieve some of the pressure on Yashin's back to carry the offense.
Funny that you mention that, because the players in Buffalo didn't exactly say they'd be missing Peca either. And I believe a few of their players even went as far as to bash Peca's ability to lead a team.
Yashin can easily be a 40-40-80 guy if he had 1 quality winger. The fact of the matter is, the Isles don't have 1 legit top-4 winger right now. Yashin's line is getting chopped up every shift and Peca's line, prior to last night, hasn't done much to relieve some of the pressure on Yashin's back to carry the offense.
That said, now we have 2 overpaid problems.
Yashin put up good numbers when he came here the first year so I take the top 4 with a grain of salt. Everyone forgets Peca was banished by Buffalo's Management and was real eager to get back into it, Yashin was fulfilling his last year of duty and probably not the most popular guy
with his Ottawa teammates.
Thats a good reason to have some jam the 1st year in another city.
I'd like to see us continue with the grit and hard work players as we stumble onto players like Hunter etc..
Spezza would start to look nice now. Just disappointed we are locked into 2 bad situations, 1 high priced checker and 1 inconsistent scorer.
Helped in the quick fix mode but this definitely won't help long term.
Yashin put up good numbers when he came here the first year so I take the top 4 with a grain of salt. Everyone forgets Peca was banished by Buffalo's Management and was real eager to get back into it, Yashin was fulfilling his last year of duty and probably not the most popular guy
with his Ottawa teammates.
Thats a good reason to have some jam the 1st year in another city.
I'd like to see us continue with the grit and hard work players as we stumble onto players like Hunter etc..
Spezza would start to look nice now. Just disappointed we are locked into 2 bad situations, 1 high priced checker and 1 inconsistent scorer.
Helped in the quick fix mode but this definitely won't help long term.
Yashin had Peca and his unit producing every night behind him. Yashin was the only player to key on in 01-02, Pecs scored a lot of clutch goals.
And since Yashin's been here, they've been trying to find him linemates. So take whatever you want for a grain of salt, but if they put a quality scorer to the left of him, he'd look a lot better.
I usually don't sit my 8million dollar guy on the bench for extended even man shifts or move him to the 4th line ala last year. Tells you something.
Tells me he is not working hard enough. But it does not mean it is about how he is in the Islander lockeroom or if players are jealous of his minutes or salary or that he get's down on himself. Eric Lindros makes nine million dollars when he plays his required games, he is playing fourth line and has been moved from center to win for two years. Does it mean it's because his teammates are jealous or he kills the chemistry? Same with Yashin's friend Bobby Holik, who Sather flat out said is a divisive person in his lockeroom. Not exacly hurting his popularity when he's playing with Kovalev.
If they work and produce, they play, if not, they don't. When Holik did not work hard Messier got his minutes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozbad
Also, being from Mtl, I got to see alot of Ottawa games up here and
I don't think I heard many players commenting on how they were going to miss Yashin after he was dealt. Tells you something. Also heard Troy Murray on the Blackhawks broadcast refrain from telling a few stories (Not good ones)
It tells me nothing. We know the circumstances of what happened in Ottawa and it's time to move on. Our announcers are hired by Msg, they have no reason to protect anyone on the Islanders, they save that priviledge for the house team and if Yashin were a problem there would be no holding back.
Yashin's been here two plus years, what specific things have you heard from the Islanders or the players on this team where someone mentions Yashin or anyone specificially? A year ago a writer in Ottawa had things inserted into his article by his editor running down Yashin and Carol Alt and was furious they put his name to it.
When the Sens were unable to make payroll their writers went to Yashin and his agent and asked what would happen if he did not get his defered money, and said he would have to look into it and that made headlines.
No matter what he says, he cannot win. So the man says nothing and is not a leader because he's quiet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozbad
Well, Mike Milbury has made it tough on me here, there are probably
no teams interested in Yashin at the $'s owed but I can bet that if Forsberg was available and healty, I'd find alot of takers. That alone should tell you what type of player Yashin is.
It tells me Yashin's not Forsberg, nothing more. 99 percent of the league is not either, does not make Yashin a lockeroom problem.
As for the two players there is no comparison. Be interesting to see Forsberg with the Islander supporting cast and Yashin with Colorado's.
You want an answer to getting rid of Yashin and clearing the money problems, very easy. Trade him to the Rangers because they do not have a first line center with Hamrlik.
Sather will demand a defender in the deal and we can take back whatever leftovers they want to hand Milbury.
When that happens. To quote Marc Berman when he was writing for the Post and Ziggy was almost a Ranger, last fan turn the light out on the franchise when leaving.
Tells me he is not working hard enough. But it does not mean it is about how he is in the Islander lockeroom or if players are jealous of his minutes or salary or that he get's down on himself. Eric Lindros makes nine million dollars when he plays his required games, he is playing fourth line and has been moved from center to win for two years. Does it mean it's because his teammates are jealous or he kills the chemistry? Same with Yashin's friend Bobby Holik, who Sather flat out said is a divisive person in his lockeroom. Not exacly hurting his popularity when he's playing with Kovalev.
If they work and produce, they play, if not, they don't. When Holik did not work hard Messier got his minutes.
It tells me nothing. We know the circumstances of what happened in Ottawa and it's time to move on. Our announcers are hired by Msg, they have no reason to protect anyone on the Islanders, they save that priviledge for the house team and if Yashin were a problem there would be no holding back.
Yashin's been here two plus years, what specific things have you heard from the Islanders or the players on this team where someone mentions Yashin or anyone specificially? A year ago a writer in Ottawa had things inserted into his article by his editor running down Yashin and Carol Alt and was furious they put his name to it.
When the Sens were unable to make payroll their writers went to Yashin and his agent and asked what would happen if he did not get his defered money, and said he would have to look into it and that made headlines.
No matter what he says, he cannot win. So the man says nothing and is not a leader because he's quiet.
It tells me Yashin's not Forsberg, nothing more. 99 percent of the league is not either, does not make Yashin a lockeroom problem.
As for the two players there is no comparison. Be interesting to see Forsberg with the Islander supporting cast and Yashin with Colorado's.
You want an answer to getting rid of Yashin and clearing the money problems, very easy. Trade him to the Rangers because they do not have a first line center with Hamrlik.
Sather will demand a defender in the deal and we can take back whatever leftovers they want to hand Milbury.
When that happens. To quote Marc Berman when he was writing for the Post and Ziggy was almost a Ranger, last fan turn the light out on the franchise when leaving.
I guess based on the Forsberg comment, your answer to this is throw more money at the situation, and give him the line up Colorado has.
Doesn't look like that's going to happen especially after the Weimer
situation. Whats next?
There is no doubt you'd take Forsberg for Yashin in a second, regardless of line up. Forsberg comes to play every night.
I'm sorry that you see mto think I hate Yashin, I think it's about time
you realize that heavy salaries command alot more from every individual
whether he plays Hockey and is in the regular workforce. Plain and simple.
And if you tell me that you wouldn't harbor any resentment towards a fellow employee who makes 5 times your salary and basically does nothing more than you and sometimes less. Common !
I'm not saying anyone on the Isles says this but I can guarantee they're a little miffed especially when your breaking your ^&% to win and
the highest paid player is on holiday.
This is not Yashins fault per say, more a Gm and organization that thought he was the key to the promise land. Not going to happen.
Look at Brisbois in Mtl. Booed everytime he use to touch the puck but that mainly born from his huge contract and his play on the ice don't mesh up in the salary structure of the Canadians.
I guess based on the Forsberg comment, your answer to this is throw more money at the situation, and give him the line up Colorado has.
Doesn't look like that's going to happen especially after the Weimer
situation. Whats next?
There is no doubt you'd take Forsberg for Yashin in a second, regardless of line up. Forsberg comes to play every night.
I'm sorry that you see mto think I hate Yashin, I think it's about time
you realize that heavy salaries command alot more from every individual
whether he plays Hockey and is in the regular workforce. Plain and simple.
And if you tell me that you wouldn't harbor any resentment towards a fellow employee who makes 5 times your salary and basically does nothing more than you and sometimes less. Common !
I'm not saying anyone on the Isles says this but I can guarantee they're a little miffed especially when your breaking your ^&% to win and
the highest paid player is on holiday.
This is not Yashins fault per say, more a Gm and organization that thought he was the key to the promise land. Not going to happen.
Look at Brisbois in Mtl. Booed everytime he use to touch the puck but that mainly born from his huge contract and his play on the ice don't mesh up in the salary structure of the Canadians.
Yashin is a better goal scorer then Forsberg is, but Forsberg brings an all-around game. He's strong defensively and a more gritty player then Yashin.
But if you gave Yashin Tanguay and Hejduk as linemates, I think you're opinion on the Yashin/Forsberg value debate would change drastically. If you gave Yashin a great passer to his left(Tanguay) and a 50 goal scorer to his right(Hejduk), his production would be right up there with Forsberg's. Of course, in the end, Forsberg will always be the better player because he brings more then just offense. But it is unfair to compare the two with Yashin's obvious lack of a supporting cast.
Yashin is a better goal scorer then Forsberg is, but Forsberg brings an all-around game. He's strong defensively and a more gritty player then Yashin.
But if you gave Yashin Tanguay and Hejduk as linemates, I think you're opinion on the Yashin/Forsberg value debate would change drastically. If you gave Yashin a great passer to his left(Tanguay) and a 50 goal scorer to his right(Hejduk), his production would be right up there with Forsberg's. Of course, in the end, Forsberg will always be the better player because he brings more then just offense. But it is unfair to compare the two with Yashin's obvious lack of a supporting cast.
We've seen Yashin in Ottawa with some talented players and I'll still take Forsbergs game over Yashin and I think the rest of the hockey world would too.
Let's face it , the Isles were desperate for a so called Star player, I just Think the grabbed the wrong one. Ask Washington if they'd do the Jagr
deal over again? That doesn't mean Jagr is a bad player its just he doesn't come to play every day.
I guess Milbury has his work cut out for him if we readily admit
you can't compare Colorado & the Isles Players. Is Colorado's payroll that much more?
You'd think with 40million you have a player who could play along side
Yashin.
Its tough to compare Yashin to any number one center in the league because none of them are playing with the likes of Chow, Kvasha, Asham, etc.. Most #1 centers have at least one bona fide first line winger, Yashin has none. So it is tough to evaluate him.
Also, if you're going to say that we grabbed the wrong guy when we traded for Yashin, then at the time the only other option was Jason Allison. With his luck with injuries in LA, would you rather have a guy who can't seem to stay in the line-up the past two years, or Yashin?
Either way are you getting your money's worth?
Reality is that the Isles are not a true cup contender. We might have a shot at making a Cinderella run, but we are not a consistent threat to win the cup. For the time being, we'll need to be happy to see the playoffs, and enjoy the games. Things might not change for, oh, another seven years.
I guess based on the Forsberg comment, your answer to this is throw more money at the situation, and give him the line up Colorado has. Doesn't look like that's going to happen especially after the Weimer situation. Whats next?
My answer is what I wrote in the first message on this topic, which I will write again now. The best answer is you keep Yashin and try to find players who will fit him best and give everyone a look and that is what they are doing.
There is no easy answer or it would have happened by now, it's clearly not realistic to expect more spending.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozbad
There is no doubt you'd take Forsberg for Yashin in a second, regardless of line up. Forsberg comes to play every night.
I guess so, but it's not an option and is not going to be an option, so I have not given any thought to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozbad
I'm sorry that you see mto think I hate Yashin, I think it's about time
you realize that heavy salaries command alot more from every individual whether he plays Hockey and is in the regular workforce. Plain and simple.
And if you tell me that you wouldn't harbor any resentment towards a fellow employee who makes 5 times your salary and basically does nothing more than you and sometimes less. Common !
I really never thought you hated Yashin, I guess you would prefer him elsewhere, but that's your opinion and your entitled.
What you are writing is that players are jealous of Yashin and he is hurting the teams chemistry and there is nothing to prove it is true.
What I do realize is Yashin is an elite hockey player and this is the world of pro sports, it's not the business world. Players can negotiate for anything they can get and for everyone who is overpaid there is someone making a lot less doing a lot more a good part of the time.
Only in Yashin's case are does it seem like such a problem with the team that he has to be traded, from what your writing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozbad
I'm not saying anyone on the Isles says this but I can guarantee they're a little miffed especially when your breaking your ^&% to win and the highest paid player is on holiday.
But Oz, you are writing this.
These are your words in the first message: " Here's the problem, he doesn't have the wings to do it and has a tendancy to give up when things are not going well, that coupled with all the ice time given creates a jealousy and frustration with all the other players. "
Miffed, jealous, frustration with all the other players.
Bottom line you do not know what the players are thinking
and neither do I.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozbad
This is not Yashins fault per say, more a Gm and organization that thought he was the key to the promise land. Not going to happen.
All I know is to this point from what I have seen Yashin has not had
an established skilled forward on his wings. We have not seen Yashin's best.
As for your comment when you think he is on holiday you do think it's his fault. When you write he has a tendancy to give up that means you think it's his fault also. I guess you think Yashin does not to come to play every night from your comments about Forsberg but you did not write that, so I don't know.
Ask for not it happening:
Ask me in two years when Papineau, Bergenheim, Weinhandl, Hunter, Mapletoft and whoever else is still here or added with Kvasha, Asham and even Parrish get some more experience and Peca is fully healthy.
It could easily happen with Yashin here. All it takes is one more young playing producing like Hunter and they may have something.
